Running diesel oil
 

Who's done it and with what results?

I'm planning on running some CJ-4 at some point after the break in period and was wondering if anyone has done it yet. I've been reading up on it and ash content is a very important thing to consider with out engines so i'm curious if anyone has run diesel oil, or better yet has been running other oil with a known ash content less than 0.05?

i use Rotella T quite often.

http://www.englefieldoil.com/PDF/RotellaTMGCJ4.pdf

Ash content seems a little high for the CJ-4

results?

works great really. Its really hard to tell how well an oil really WORKS on an engine that has some mileage already to it. But i never had much carbon build up even with the engine burning oil.

What viscosity are you running? 5w-40?

15W-40 Rotella for my daily cars. My rarely used "track like" toys get way different things.

Diesel oil is meant for diesel engines and has a significantly differnet additive package than gasoline engine oil, so it is therefore a BAD idea to run it in your gas engine cars. I was told that by someone who teaches courses on lubrication all over North America.

DON'T DO IT

i would curious as to what the exact differences are and the extent of the significance. As far as a rotary engine goes, i see many similarities expect for perhaps RPM ranges.

IIRC (I looked it up today at work), there's more anti-wear by about 80% (lower speeds, higher loads, so its needed more), but I don't remember the rest exactly.

Basically by running diesel oil, you're saying you know more about lubrication than the lubrication experts that set the standards, and that's just not the case. If you're worried about it, just run a good quality synthetic. Amsoil is apparently about the best you can get.

Long time Shell Rotella-T user here...
Got no problems, and tear downs don't reveal any problems...
I get a little lazy at times and lengthen service intervals to 5,000 miles.
Yeah, I know...I know.
The car doesn't get run hard nowadays. :)
1987 Turbo II
13BT
Haltech E8
Last put down 240hp at the wheels on a DynaPack dyno
Daily driver
10 - 12psi of boost max
Premix'd with Valvoline Multi-use premix in the blue bottle


-Ted

I had another look, they've typically got more anti-wear and more anti-corrosion, dispersant and detergent additives. That might sound like a good thing, but really, if you don't need it, it's better to not have an additive, since you get less actual oil in your oil.

That doesn't take into account CJ4 which is for hi-rev/hi-load diesel engines.

i figured that since diesels are high heat and rotaries are high heat, it can't be too bad a combo. Standard gas 4 cylinder engines do run quite different than a standard rotary engine. And im sure no company is going to make something specific to the operating needs of the wankel.

The exhaust gas may be high heat, but the oil temperatures seen in a rotary are no different than those seen in a regular gas piston engine. Besides, it was designed for gasoline engine oil.

Even "high rpm" diesels will still redline below your average gasoline piston engine.

I'm not saying that the additive packages will have those exact differences, that's just what the "typical" differences are apparently, and it'll be a bit different depending on what standard the oil is made to as well.

They might be similar in running temperature but something tells me there is a reason the rx-7s came with such a large oil cooler where many piston engines simply do not.

Yes they put a lot of thermal energy into the oil, that's what the oil cooler is for, but as long as the temperatures aren't any different, then the oil won't care. There's plenty of piston engine car with oil coolers too you know.

The only problem with running diesel oil that I have found so far would be foaming of the oil. There are ways to get around this however.

additives

however, the Renesis continues to have trouble with normal oils foaming. It's give and take, there's still ways to keep oil from foaming.

I use that in my diesel didn't even think to stick it in the 7

I sell oil as well as fleet service. Archer Oil out of Omaha,Neb. I run 20/50 hi torque in my turbo and 5/30 syn in my race n/a engine. Most diesel oils are for diesel engines with no egr system. The late model diesel motors have this egr sys as a fed requirement. Do more home work. get info from more than 1 salesman. The oil company that I represent has oil analysis. I've asked the folks that have been testing for years. Do your home work before you commit.

What do you expect to gain from running diesel formulated oil that couldn't be gained by just running a heavier oil like 20w50?

Personally, its not like the rotary suffers from any kind of premature bearing failure or anything that would require re-thinking the contents of the lube system - outside of modding passages and teardropping orifices on the e-shaft etc.

But I highly doubt its going to kill anything either?

Idemitsu makes a synthetic engine oil specific to the rotary engine. They took into account the OMP when they designed it. I've never used it. I run 10w-30 Mobil1 and have a seperate tank for the OMP system that injects the Idemitsu oil.

I think the one thing to really be condidered when choosing engine oil is the ability to cope with fuel dilution. Alex has an MS6, with DI which apparently has some issues with fuel saturation in the oil. He runs Shell Rotella for this purpose

My good friend ONLY uses Rotella in his Subaru's (STi and Turbo Legacy). Apparently they all swear by it as well.

I never thought to use it in a rotary though.

Really...

REALLY...

Do you think we're stupid enough to listen to some saleguy???

Please go away troll.


-Ted

:smilielol5:

It really comes down to ash content. CJ-4 Has much less ash content than most oils I've seen from BITOG.com. Less ash, means less chance of pre-ignition events occuring within a given time period.
It's not the bearings I'm concerned about, it's the pre-ignition factor. Since the car is injecting oil into the combustion chamber the ash content of the oil becomes very important. The less ash (under .5%--I think, it's been awhile since I looked), means less chance of carbon build up and less chance of pre-ignition. There is a discussion on ash content and oils that were discussed in the Rotary Engine forum, which I'll link shortly if wanted.
See above.

Ash content would be less of an issue if running aux injection since the engine is always being steam cleaned. I had been running mobile 1 15/w50 which was designed for performance cars that needed extra antiwear additives. I'm not sure what the ash content was but it seemed like the oils with extra antiwear had more ash. Walmart stopped carrying the oil i used and it seems like all the oil formulas are going green which have much lower antiwear properties. These oils could cause us to see more bearing problems pop up. Not to mention our expensive turbos can use a good quality oil. At least the desiel oils don't appear to be removing all the stuff giving extra protection. I'm still debating on what oil i want to use. I like synthetic because it seems to run a little cooler, and doesnt coke up the turbo bearings. But it's also more expensive, so it may be just as well to go back to "dino" oil and change it twice as often. So many choices. If you google it, you'll see the topic of antiwear additives is an issue on tons of car forums.

Really a good zinc package integrated within the oil should be all you need. The additional additives increase foaming. The base oil itself is what you need to worry about: ash content is derived from there. Let me dig up the link.

ba-da-ching:
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...ead.php?t=7344

You're a bit of an asshat. But, most people here already know that.....
Do some reasearch for yourself, and you will find that the oil he sells just happens to be one of the highest quality oils on the market. I actually run it in my vehicles myself. And yes, I also happen to buy it thru the guy you think is a troll.

One very important item to look for in an oil for a rotary, is flash point. Oils with a low flash point will burn away before making it thru the combustion cycle. On the other hand, too high a flash point can lead to hard carbon deposits, due to incomplete burning.

All engines, not just rotaries, have a certain amount of oil in the combustion chamber. The better the quality of oil, the longer the service life of the engine.

So basically we need higher zddp (zinc) additives to keep everything from wearing and to reduce friction, but then this causes foaming issues, which I imagine doesn't do well for lubricating much of anything. On top of all that we have to worry about ash content to keep carbon buildup down, AND make sure the oil still lubricates under fuel dilution because we all know that's an issue we have too. Then we also have synthetic vs dino, cost vs frequency, carbon vs bearing wear, on and on and on, and who knows what changes everyone has made to the oils. What the F?? So much thought going into oil.

Foaming comes about from too many detergents (and improperly balanced additives). a proper zddp only is needed when the oil itself breaks down. If it doesn't break down in the first place the zddp is your last line of protection.

I'm going to give Rotella T6 a try...5W-40 full synthetic. Wish me luck...

Holy thread resurrection!

But I had a thought of:
What oil does the diesel race cars (like the Audi R10 TDI) use?
Might want to try that.

I run this in my Yamaha R1 and Raptor 700, it seems to be a very good oil and I'll probably also switch the RX7 over to it.

Thanks to the EPA the large oil producers have had to remove most if not all of the zinc and other high impact wear properties in the mass produced oils and this includes the diesel oils.

If you want the true old school style racing oils that you could get before the EPA got involved go with Joe Gibbs racing oil, Idemitsu, Red line or Royal Purple.

I'm running Joe Gibbs racing HR2 10-30 high zinc conventional. Or you could go with their HR4 full synthetic.

Good oils come at a premium price but you get what you pay for.