weird oil leak
 

My car is up on jack stands and last night I changed the oil.

I came home today and found a rather large - at least 1 qt of new oil on the garage floor. But when I checked the dip stick it says its full.

Any ideas???

There are to many places for it to leak from just to guess, you need to crawl back under it and get a general idea of where it's coming from.

But, if it didn't leak before and now it does after you changed the oil, i'd say it's the plug.

I don't think I have nailed down the exact source, but its dripping off the drivers side oil pan. Cleaned a lot of the underside last night.

I was a little amazed that the dip stick said full when it was down probably 2 qts. Makes sense though if the pan is full and leak is above the pan.

I am taking the day off to work on it (have to take 5 days this month-forced time off). I may pull the intercooler and intake box to get a better look.

My biggest fear - rear main seal, I am going to open the bell housing panels and see thats the culprit. If its not then I can sleep a tiny bit better tonight.

Whole thing sucks--amped up to bleed brakes and drive car just to have this happen. Oh well knew there would be days like this.

This is real simple. Oil flows DOWN and back if your driving so if you crall under the car it will be easy to see where just look above the last drop you find till its dry theres your oil leak. ALL the oil will be in the pan when shut down so if it says full its FULL. after you changed the oil you ran the car for a minute right? and sinse there are only 3 oil related things you touch when changing oil LOOK there first. OIL DRAIN PLUG, OIL FILTER and FILL/DIPSTICK. if i remember the drain is passanger side? and easy to see if its leaking. the other two are driver side oil filter could hve cut or non seated o-ring. hell it could be your fill neck cracked and leaked oil down the block being it is plastic. when you were filling it.

seals dont just crap out all of a sudden unless its a APEX SEAL lol look at what you touched first!

my 2c
Z

The engines are known to leak?

When was the last time you go your engine rebuilt? Also, check what you just touched as the guy above said.

I have never seen a rear main seal leak in a fd, ever. The new thinner oil could have created an oil pan leak. I haven seen oil pans leak with 10w30 but not leak with 20w50. Could be several things though

I have seen one leak..

We replaced the oil pan, put Garfinkle oil pan brace... and then, we still saw that oil was leaking.. Finally we saw that it was the main seal is where it was leaking from.

camera is dead, but I will post pics soon.

No the car hasn't been started yet. I have been rebuilding brakes and putting a downpipe on for the last few weeks. I have noticed a small leak before - but not a 3 ft wide circle in 24 hours.

Oil is dripping off the oil pan. Does it make sense that the oil pan is full - hense full dipstick reading and the engine above it be "empty"? I haven't had a chance to determine of the oil is running or not.

The oil fill neck is dry, the oil filter pedestal is dry the oil plug is dry.

I don't think I over filled the engine - but if I messed up (filling from large jug) would the oil come out some place up top?? i am thinking of draining and refilling and seeing if the same thing happens or the drip rate increases dramatically---something.

Thanks for your insight. I do appricate the help.

oh and about 12k miles on a mazda reman.

It shouldn't leak if you overfilled it unless it's coming out of the dipstick. How much did you put in it, it'd proably take a good bit? To me it's sorta odd to leak just sitting there unless it's a MAJOR leak, most stuff doesn't seam to show up unless it's running.

If it's not from the oil filter, the filler neck, or dipstick, the only thing left on that side is the oil lines to/from the oil cooler. Or it could be what David and Phil said.

the circles spot is where it is dripping from on the drivers side.

The engine should be under warranty, I just don'twant to take it to a dealership unless I really have to to save money.

well, I buttoned up the car from putting the dp on. I drained the oil - a little over 3 qts. left in the enigne. Dipstick still read full (before I drained the oil).

I filled the car up and took it for a little drive. came back cleaned up the garage floor a little bit moved car - a 1/2 cup of oil must have drained out in 10min-nice puddle in the drive way.

I did notice oil coming from the driver side pan and passenger pan. I am pretty sure I have a boost leak or the turbos craped out (105k miles on them). Other than that the car starts great, idles great.

engine warranty ran out on 2/26 :banghead:. The dealership quoted $250 but wants to look at the car before setting anything in stone. Rotary Performance said $550 plus parts - around a 6hr job. I have a feeling I will be learning how to drop the oil pan.

again thanks for the help.

It could be the bottom corner of the front cover. The seal/gasket might be broken or a piece is missing and when your oil level is above the oil pan/housing level, it will leak out. I had a mazda reman that leaked all over the place after a few months and when I looked for the leak I noticed that a piece of the seal was sticking out from the side. If this is the case, you will have to remove everything in front to get to it.....a pain in the ass. You should try to get a replacement gasket out of metal instead of paper.

thats my worry. I am don't mind the pan. But I don't want to replace the pan, just to find out I have to remove the front of the engine - and the pan agian. Would be better off just yanking the engine--but I don't want to do that if its just the pan.

I may try to see if uv/ blacklight dye helps find any new info.

used the uv/black light dye. It leaking from driver's side and passenger side at the front of the engine. Really think its the front cover and not the oil pan.

I know the front cover can be pain - but after you remove everything - how hard it is to replace the gasket?

if you able to get the front cover off, replacing the gasket is like replacing any other flat mating surface gasket (not much to it) need to get everything clean, clean, clean. The hardest part is getting the main pullies off and making sure that you have the thrust bearing properly aligned and inplace when everything goes back together or you might be possibly looking at major damage. Just try to get a metal replacement and don't forget that there is an o-ring and a teflon retaining ring for the oil passage in the middle of the front cover.

You can't remove the front cover unless you unbolt the 19mm on e-shaft.(good luck with it, the flywheel bolt is easier to remove than the 19mm) Than after that you'll barely have room to get the 10mm bolt on the oil pan. My advice if it is leaking from the front cover try to torque the bolt on the front cover more and apply more silicone to the leaked area. Use a crap load of silicone if you have to. I would avoid ever taking the front cover off just to change the gasket which I use silicone instead on all my rebuilt.

i have never had an issue with the front pulley bolt. Ever.

How you do it? I still have hard time loosen the 19mm bolt eventhrough is it out of the car rather than along in the car.

I would rather replace the front cover gasket than the oil pan gasket. Call atkins and order yourself a mazdaspeed metal front cover gasket. No need for RTV and you can delete the oil crossover o-ring. The hardest two things when fixing the front cover are: 1. If the engine is original or has more than 25k miles on it, trying to get the front nut off can be a pain unless you have a 1" impact gun rated at over 1000ftlbs. My 600ft lb gun often doesnt have what it takes to remove the bolt even with 140psi of air going to it. The second thing which isnt really difficult but just annoying, is removing and reinstalling the AC compressor.

It is a much simpler job than the oil pan in my opinion. The one down side is resealing your oil pan, it is near impossible to reseal the area under the front cover correctly, you will likely end up with a small oil pan leak, but nothing that results in 1/2 cup of oil in 10 mins. A front cover leak can be dangerous, seen a car catch fire due to a bad front cover leak.

If you have 12k or over 12months, they probably will not cover it. Depends on your dealer. I have not been impressed with remans since early 90's. Quality just doesn't seem to be the way it once was. I will not warrenty the labor for them any longer. Seems they have too often been 12month motors. I am waiting to hear on what the Mazda Renesis remans are doing. This I am hard pressed to say because I am confirmed factory guy and Mazda had always been know for it's quality.

Back to original post:

Neither one is a fun job in the car. To me it’s 50/50. David is correct about original install eccentric shaft bolt. Max torque is 270N-m/28kg-m/200ft-lb. But I would like to meet the gorilla in the factory using the torque wrench. I have to borrow a 1in impact to get them off when out of the car. Since this a reman it shouldn't be too bad. You may be able to use the breaker bar against frame rail trick. see below.

On original factory motors I have been able to break them loose in the car with a six foot pipe on a breaker bar. Also have broken more that one breaker bar and socket or adaptor. Snap-on carries them in stock for me now. Much easier out of the car with the impact and flywheel lock. 1st and 2nd gens I was able to use a breaker bar have it set so that it is a couple of inches from the LS frame rail and hit the starter, couple of tries broke it loose. Disable ignition of course.

I have never had a problem with the mazda oem gasket on any of my client street cars motors that I have done. Trick is clean surface and torque on front cover bolts. I don’t use any extra sealant either. Not saying anything against metal.

AC compressor, helps if you have small hands. And don’t tighten one bolt until you get all four started.

I would say though that after you change it you will probably have a pan leak. So be prepared to go after that soon.

As stated above, be very careful about the keyway and the back thrust bearing. If the keyway comes out with the damper the bearing will have dropped. Best way I have found is to keep the key pushed in as you carefully remove the damper.

If this motor has a lot of miles on it you may want to think rebuild. This could just be the tip of the iceberg and it will be plaguing you with a lot of little (that’s a misnomer on this model) things. Nickel and dime on these is 500/1000. I don’t like charging double labor if I don’t have to. I have found that the FD can have a lot of sleeping dogs. But if you like working on it and like a lot of frustration more power to you. Just take your time and don’t try to cut corners or rush anything.

Oil
 

Probably dripping somewhere above the pan. Didi you spill any when filling?

no spills.

The engine has 12-14K on a reman that was installed when I bought the car. The crappy thing is the car was in the air for while-brakes and dp and went out of warranty in the process. The mazda dealer here in Denton won't cover it. I don't know of other options or people to call to have mazda fix it. And I know all about scary dealer stories, but if I can get them to cover it then I will save a lot of time and money--hopefully.

Rotary Performance quoted $1000 for the front cover and oil pan. I have some more forced vacation next week so I may tackle it then. I am rolling it around in my head. Pay $1000 for job done right or try it my self, cry and cuss, but save money.

How careful do you have to be with the thrust bearings once the cover is off? I have read you need to be careful or you get the chance to rebuild the engine. But how careful do you really have to be? I read to keep the front of the engine in air to help out.

I have tried to read up on the other forum, but any advice or guidance is always welcome.

As for the thrust bearing I use vaseline to hold it in place. My advice to double check it is the front cover ( I use to have the same problem but it end up the Turbo return lines that goes to the front cover had been leaking and it drip down the oil pan) Only reason I want you to double check cause tackling the fron cover job is not fum for the first timer.

That's a fair quote, about the same I charge. It's an ugly job even for those of us that do it all the time. Not my favorite to do in the car. A proper engine holder really makes it a lot easier. Although I am sure there are those that have used a 4X4 or big pipe and chain. Not really a job I would recommend for someone that doesn't have some backup and a lot of patience. Arie and the crew will treat you right if you go with them. Last I heard Dealerships in Tucson won’t take in any older rotary, pre 8, anymore.

If you do the front cover as long as you keep the keyway from coming out with the damper you shouldn't have a problem with the thrust bearing. If the trust sleeve is kept place the bearing shouldn't move. During assembly once lined up I pull the eccentric shaft forward to keep pressure on the bearing, done a few motors so it is second hand. Vaseline won't hurt.
It is critical it and is easy to get wrong. Don’t know how many home builds I have taken apart that had crushed bearings, even had a mana with one. Most all of these were before there were any forums though so there wasn’t as much help for DIYers. Factory school was about the only way to get any of the tricks back then. Instructor would point out, BTW you won’t find this in the factory shop manual. I’ll admit it I’ve crushed one, got distracted. At least I knew what was wrong when I checked end play before putting front cover on.

Since the UV showed what it did and that is a common failure point it probably is the gasket. My experience has been that the hoses are pretty obvious when they leak. As you have easy access now easy enough to see if there is any oil in them any way.

This doesn't help much. But according to the guy that I got my car from he had to replace the same gasket on the engine that had approx. the same amount of miles when he bought the car.

Looks like Remans have a good chance of having problems. I know coolant seal failure is common, which is what eventually happened that engine.

i would think that its the little o-ring in between the front cover and the front iron. Its on the same side of the engine, and sees full oil pressure. Might have helped caused the leak to form. Hard to say. Just a theory. You can see the area for in the picture below.

http://www.rc-tvproductions.com/images/rx7/IMG_8250.JPG

But failure of that o ring usually only causes lack or loss of OP. Will not lead to an external leak. Failure of gasket at the oil pan is high % especially if the cover bolts are not torqued correctly and one other little thing, the gasket usually sticks out on both sides on the bottom, the excess should carefully be removed. Another one of those factory school hints. Earlier round motors had a more forgiving OPan gasket, but it could still induce a leak over time. Newer no gasket and new gaskets seem to be more prone to leak issues when the front cover gasket isn't trimmed.
Some where someone said they don't use a torque wrench except for a couple of places. I was able to do that also with everything pre 93. With the FD and Renesis I use them on just about everything. Too much work involved to have something silly go wrong. Doesn't really take you that much longer.

exactly why i thought it was "far fetched" but an option.

no picture - want to see.

I decided to drop the car off at Rotary Performance yesterday. If the engine was blown I would have dropped the enigne and rebuilt it my self - couldn't hurt anything. But since it wasn't I decided to let the pro's do it and learn about engine covers another day.

I want to get a hold of a blown small block and tear it down to get my hands dirty.

I should have the car back in two weeks.

I am excited. I should get my car tomorrow or on Monday depending if I can get to Garland on a Friday afternoon before they close.

In the words of Chris at RP "you had an impressive oil leak".

They are also going to get base line dyno pull before I add more stuff.

Got the car home. They also found a broken drivers side motor mount. No dyno run - stupid mustang was hogging it all day i gues.

FYI - RP does not use a gasket for the front cover or oil pan. They also don't use a pan support.

I am glad a I took the car there. The team at RP is awesome.

They didnt install a Metal front cover gasket?

no they silicon the whole thing and put a pipe in for the omp so silicon doesn't get in. Sorry I don't have a better explaination.