20b Installs
 

Who is a trustworthy person to get a (20b single turbo 18-20lbs boost) from and have it completly installed in an 80 model 7, and how much should the entire project cost?
I've read about some nightmare stories and Im kinda leary about the whole thing.But I would love to see what it could do!

Originally wanted a 4 rotor monstor but I think it would cost way too much
adding another rotor,coil,and wiring shouldnt cost an extra 10-15k

I know Logan at Defined autoworks in ohio does a great job.

it would help to know where you are...

project would be pretty expensive, you need to buy a motor, fit it to the car, buy/fab the turbo manifold, buy the turbo and fuel system (injectors, pump), get an ecu that will run the thing, radiator, intercooler, oil cooler, clutch/flywheel/trans/driveshaft/rear end. then rebuild the engine, and tune everything.

plus labor....

it could easily be a $30,000 multi year project...

Yes, it would be at least $30,000. Most of us have significantly more than that invested. I like the Defined Autoworks kit if you don't need AC.

$30,000 is f'ing ridiculous, it all depends on your power goals. For what he's looking for, you could do a really nice swap for about half that, parts and labor.

OP: I sent you a PM, get ahold of me and we can talk about your goals, then I could give you a parts estimate.

To do it right you will need 30k for shure. Motor cost + rebuilt, turbo kit, fuel components,tranny ugrade, twin plate clutch, diferential and axle upgrade.

Might be some that i missed. You will need all the right components that cost alot of $$ to have a healthy 20b powerd car.

You welcome.

You could put a stock 20b with its twins tuned to make 300-310 whp for about $15-20,000. Going to a 20b with a single turbo is going to cost at least $35,000 done well. (It can and has cost people $50-75,000 and possibly more to do what they wanted with a 20b single...) I have a 20b NA and a 20b GT42R and have some idea what it takes to do these.

Knowing what the parts cost doesn't mean anything at all and I wouldn't listen to anyone who tells you that $30,000 is f'ng ridiculous. They either have no idea what they're talking about or are planning to rip you off.

If you are anywhere near Ohio, Logan at Defined Motorwerks is your guy, imho. If you are further east, Dave at KD Rotary does a great job. If you are close to Florida, Jesus Padilla is the guy. Those are the only guys I know to recommend, but others can chime in from other parts of the country.

Gordon

Putting a stock 20b with a good OEM rebuild and factory twins in should run between $5k and $10k, depending on how much of the drivetrain you put in with it, and what the car is designed to do. A street driven car probably doesn't need a twin clutch, particularly in the case of an 1980 RX, which weighs very little compared to what the motor came in OEM. I wouldn't recommend using the 12a trans, obviously (although I did run a 238rwhp ~300fwhp turbo 12a in my car on the stock trans/driveshaft/rear for dozens of strip and dyno runs and never had a failure - much to the dismay of people who told me I'd pop transmissions left and right). The stock rear on an FB will hold surprisingly much power (ask the rear in my small block chevy 400ci powered FB), and the wheels will spin in that car long before you have a chance to pop a T2 trans.

Now if he's planning on running drag radials and launching at full throttle, none of that will stand up. But my point is, you guys are making serious assumptions about the point of this car, and the budget of the person doing the swap.

When I say $30k is ridiculous, I'm assuming this is a street car, as the OP didn't specifically say otherwise. Again, if this is a drag car, A) that changes the equation seriously, and B) the OP shouldn't really be getting into that without knowing ahead of time what he's going to be doing to the car.

But when I say half that, I mean I could build a street car to those general specs for $15k without a doubt. It's about knowing where you can do things cheaper and (usually) better. I use Megasquirt EFI systems I can build and wire in myself as opposed to haltech systems I can't modify, which saves literally thousands of dollars in most cases. I do the tuning in-house on my engine dyno, so I know where there are power gains to be had, and the tune ends up much more streetable because an engine dyno can hit places that a chassis dyno realistically can't. And the big thing, I'm used to doing things on a budget, and I know where there's free and cheap power. You don't buy thousand dollar intakes when you can build one in house for half the price. You don't spent thousands of dollars beefing up the trans when you can swap in a different one (I'm thinking T5) easier. You don't replace axles and the diff in the stock rear if you can swap out to a ford 9" rear by welding on some suspension brackets. The main point is that all of this can be done cheaply and will give superb performance- but it's labor intensive, and a lot of it boils down to how much the shop you go to charges for labor. Me? I'm dirt cheap, I do this to support my own habit, really. My profit goes to pay for my garage and more machine tools and such so that I can keep building my own stuff.

The project I'm finishing in the next couple of weeks is a 20b build for a kid in New Jersey. It pretty much matches the OP's vague description. With a heavy port and a large single turbo, custom intake with an integral water->air intercooler (which is actually situated post-throttle body to increase spool time and so that the intercooler can actually function as the intake plenum) at moderate boost levels we're making 600 hp. I haven't run up into the high boost area yet, I'm debating with the customer the need for it, as we've already passed his power goal. With fuel system, Megasquirt, transmission, rear end, water/air intercooler system, oil coolers ,radiator, upgraded suspension, engine rebuild, custom manifolds and everything else involved, parts cost came out less than $15k. Total for the job was $22k, and if the OP would like, I'm sure I can put him in touch with the customer.

RotaryProphet - that would be great if a 20B as you described can be done for $22K. I don't know you or your capabilities but you'll have work all day long if that is what you charge and if the work is quality. Those are two big IFs though.

I have a 20B conversion, and like Gordon, have spent way more than the $35K we both think the job could be done for. Most of my money though was "rip off" money where the shop claimed expertise in 20B conversions and then I had to have the work redone by someone else. I now have the car with Jesus Padilla at Kilo Racing in Orlando and I highly recommend him. Dave at KDR is also great as is Logan at Defined Autoworks IF you don't need AC (his kit doesn't support it). Carlos Lopez and Chris Hill in Miami are also very good and have done countless 20B conversions.

Here is the point from me - don't take your car to someone you don't know or doesn't have good recommendations. And if price is your primary concern then don't do the 20B swap. I don't know of anyone that has had a shop do a quality job on a conversion like this for under $30,000 so let the buyer beware.

Regarding the Megasquirt, I wasn't aware that EMS could be used but why bother when there are other units that fully support the 20B like the Haltech you mentioned and for example, Microtech? These are not pricey units and they fully support the 20B setup and they have both been used on countless installs. My current EMS is the Microtech LT-12S. With wiring harness, it's like $1,300 and it has my car running like OEM.

Regarding the first point: Definitely don't do 20b if price is an issue. Even $22k is twenty two freaking thousand dollars for an engine swap. You best have a hell of a budget.

As for the Megasquirt, with a few mods on board and doing all the soldering myself, I can have a seriously high powered EFI system for a hair over $300 - the price of the kit and wiring harness. So yes, a thousand dollar savings right there is good enough justification for me, and since I understand how to do it, it's worth it to me. That's just an example of what I'm talking about, not everyone can wield a soldering iron like i can, so not everyone is in a position to spend $300 for something people often spend $1300 on.

Rotary Prophet... My obligations are to the users and not to the sellers on forums and so I apologize up front if you take umbrage at what I am going to say.

Anyone who has a 20b conversion done by a "back yard tuner" who does work to support his or her habit rather than by a full time reputable business have absolutely no right to complain whatsoever for anything that goes wrong. If the car isn't ever completed, costs way more than promised or blows up, that person has no right to complain here on this forum or anywhere else. The forums are littered with people who have gone to some unknown or less-well-known tuner and have had a bad experience.

When I started modding FD's back in the mid-90's I took the approach of identifying parts and their cost and then figuring out how long it would take to do the work at a specified or assumed labor cost. In general I found I was off by at least 100% on the best-guessed builds.

I think you could do an Australian or New Zealand backyard 20b swap for as little as $20-25,000. I have no idea how long it would take you to get it done or what the ultimate quality would be. It would be an interesting FB and would be very fast until something broke. It would be special in the sense that you would have a 20b in an FB. It would not be some beautiful, 600 whp monster that looked great and was "awesome". You get what you pay for.

Your biggest risks in hoping to get a 20b into an FB would be that you were still waiting for it in a year or more. These conversions usually take about 6 months to a year at somebody's shop. If you have it done by a backyard tuner, he may change his life and no longer have time to do your work or he may move to take a new job or his own car may take priority.

Most people who know what's what will tell you that you should either have it done by a reputable shop that has done it many times and you pay through the nose or you know enough to do it yourself.

Gordon

Yes, but the customer is then left with an EMS that can only be supported by you and that's not a very enviable position to be in. At least with an off the shelf solution (read Microtech, Haltech, etc.) the customer can take the car to other mechanics that can work on/tune the car. Saving money is good, but sometimes going with a tried and true solution that costs more is better. I'm all for saving money but I wouldn't scrimp on the EMS that's for sure.

As for the rest of the project, I love having a mechanic/fabricator like you that is in tune with saving money. Why spend more if you don't get an appreciable corresponding benefit?

Would love to see some pics/vids/dyno sheets of your current 20B project.

Picking up on what Gordon is saying, he's absolutely right. Have a reputable shop do your 20B build. This kind of conversion has no place with a "backyard tuner" as Gordon says.

And even if you go to a reputable shop, there is still the chance it won't work out for you. I first went to the shop that has done the most 20B builds, the "Banzai" as they call it. Yet, they couldn't quite get the car all together from a EMS/tuning standpoint. I then sent the car to Wolf EMS USA as they wanted to enter the US market and use my car as their demonstration/project car. Turns out the guy running the US operations has a drug/drinking problem and that didn't pan out. The point is there are just a handful of places I know of that you can get the job done and trust the work.

RotaryProphet,

I would also like to see your previous 20B installs and such. I think seeing other options out there will help those looking to do 3 rotor swaps... I mean, I'm still learning about different set ups and still making decisions which way to go.. And I been thinking about it for the past 4 years.

Fair enough, (and understandable!) but I don't consider myself a "back yard tuner"... how many of those own a shop and operate a private engine dyno? Besides that, I don't know about other people, (and it's certainly worthless to say it), but I take good care of my customers (Ask the guy who's motor I'm re-dynoing and recreating the harness on because of his mis-installation... for free, no less.)

However, I do work a full time job, so in that sense I don't depend on my shop's income at all; it pays for itself, and for my projects, and that's about all I ask for.

As far as using a Megasquirt and only myself being able to work on it; that's not strictly true, Megasquirt tuning is standardized, but in the sense that most shops don't know anything about it, that is true, but most of the people I do work for favor the lower price tag. (It's actually often cheaper to wire in a Megasquirt for me than to replace a defective ECU with a used one).

Once I finish up the last bit if tuning on this motor, I'll try to get some pics up, and some pics of the motor installed, as well as some dyno sheets.

well lets put things into perspective here.

20B engine $4000
management $1700 (that is a bare harness not already loomed out)
building engine with BT sleeves ported with new seals dowel pins ect. $5000 minimum
fuel system (pump, injectors, regulator) $650
good clutch $750
subframe, $1000-1500
turbo kit with manifold turbo and external gate (name brand) $3000
full exhaust with custom down pipe $1000
LS1 Coil/ignitor packs $500

Alright that is around 19K in parts and that doesn't include labor. Shops that work on cars have to have mechanic insurance which is pretty expensive. This doesn't include all the labor for fitment and customized brackets, alignment, tuning bla bla bla. Totally huge undertaking for someone on a budget.

You can do it cheap with carbs and na w/o rebuilding the engine. But you don't know the condition of the engine unless you tear it down.

Bryan@BNR

Sooooooooooo my Lambda sensor is more expensive than your entire ECU? I really don't understand mega-squirt at all. I've heard half the people say it's great, mainly becuase of the price tag, and the other 1/2 say they hated it becuase it's cheap, not flexible, and who in thier right mind wants to solder stuff to expand thier ecu? I'd rather pay for a code and plug it into my laptop.

As for you're budget fo $15,000 for parts............ I'd like to see an itemized list becuase I spent near that on electronics and fuel for my 13B-RE swap.

Truer words have never been spoken.

BTW Gordon, still waiting to bump into you @ KDR. Last month we were supposed to be there on the same day but you canceled becuase of the rain. I drove from CT, what's your excuse ;)

Completely agreed. I went for the ECU that could do what I wanted and had the service that I expected. I actually just sent off two maps to Motec West. Said, this one is closed loop boost control looking for 12 psi & boost spikes to 20psi. This one is open loop, should be around 40% but logs 100% duty cycle. Why? Please fix, explain it to me, and don't be surprised when I call you on Wednesday from the Dyno. By the way, is getting an 8 hour turn around time too short?

The answers were, I'll check it out and let you know, I'll check it out and let you know. I'll correct the parameters in the PID and give brief explainations why you were wrong, 8 hours is plenty, we're here to help, call whenever. Motec is far and away the BEST service and the BEST product. I'm not saying everyone should go out and grab one, but for me and my limited ECU working knowledge, it seemed the obvious choice from a service point of view. Can MS give you that?


Tearing down a used engine is something that everyone should do. My first used engine made good compression so I left it alone. 5 hours later a carbon locked side seal got fragged and wiped out a front rotor and housing. Had I broke it down and cleaned it, that motor would have lasted. So, factor in a minumum rebuild of what............ $2,000 in parts plus labor - $4k+ plus the cost. The engine alone is at $8,000 before it has a turbo, fuel system, clutch, etc etc etc.

Yes, yes it is, apparently. The way I see it, there are basically three kinds of people. People who don't know, and don't want to know how an ECU works. Go get any of a number of big name ECUs, and get someone to install and tune it, and it'll work great and do what you want.

Then there's the people who don't know, but want to know how the ecu works; building it from scratch and tuning it yourself is a fantastic learning experience, and after a little bit, you'll actually understand what you're doing.

Finally there's the people who do understand. Those are the guys who use Megasquirt because of the openness. Want to add a new feature? Build a circuit for it, download the code, modify it to do what you want, and load it on your ECU.

The Megasquirt can be inexpensive because the default hardware is the bare minimum necessary to run almost any engine. Most ECUs are expensive because the default configuration has to support most every engine. Basically, most of the circuits are sitting idle most of the time. I'll freely admit that the Megasquirt isn't for everyone; actually, if you're not sure, then it's probably not for you. But really, we've strayed off from my original point in this post, which was that a lot of people vastly overpay for parts, when cheaper alternatives exist that work just as well... sometimes better.

RotaryProphet,

Can you start a new thread about Megasquirt and maybe write up an MS101 or something?? I've heard about it but that's about it..

I can probably accomplish that; let me get some information organized, and I'll see what can be done.

Well, I'm apparently the 2nd type of person. However, just to play devils advocate.... ok, stir the pot a little, can a megasquirt be configured to run a 13B-REW engine with the sequentials working properly, the electric OMP working properly, run closed loop boost control, closed loop Lambda control, Closed loop Idle control, run an e-fan, a fuel pump/ign relay, traction control, have a 10 position dial swtich for boost control, EMAP comps, log coolant and oil temps, oil pressure, fuel pressure, AIT's, MAP, TPS, EMAP, 14 different duty cycles and display it all on your laptop in any configuration possible while having CAN communications with a digital dash?

Again, you get what you pay for.

I would also like to point out that if you go to any proffesional level races, I highly doubt you'll see one MS, even landspeed challenges which are mostly individuals probably won't run them and some of these guys, one I know personally, has been around FI for the better part of 4 decades and can certainly wield a soldering gun wouldn't even touch them. His comment on Microtech, "Well I suppose you could fill it with concrete and use it as a doorstop, then it might be good for something," and we all know that microtechs are just fine for certain applications. Again, you generally get what you pay for.

Define "pay for". If you include "work for", then that's absolutely right; the components are cheap, the plans are free, you just have to put in some effort.

As far as the land speed guys, this team uses one: http://www.diyautotune.com/cars/cust...studebaker.htm - "AA/BGALT Record Holder as of SpeedWeek 2008"

So yeah, they're out there. But seriously; once you get into professional level stuff, the funding is outrageous; it being a thousand dollars or so cheaper than the next alternative isn't even a point anymore.

As for your theoretical setup; yes, a Megasquirt would be capable of all of that. It would require a few modifications, but it's within the board's capacity. Although a few of the items don't really make sense. Let's go down an itemized list:
run a 13B-REW engine - Main issue is secondary spark plugs with a correct split; Doable with minor modifications.

with the sequentials working properly - Would require a few simple general purpose IO circuits, or the general purpose IO board addon (talks to the ECU via CAN)
the electric OMP working properly - I assume this works via pulses? Regardless, the CPU could run a low frequency pulsewidth modulation system to do pulses, or a high frequency setup to run an analog voltage.

run closed loop boost control - Requires a very frequently installed mod

closed loop Lambda control - A feature of every Megasquirt

Closed loop Idle control - A stock MS will run any PWM, Stepper, or On-Off style idle valve just fine.

run an e-fan - Stock MS feature

a fuel pump/ign relay - Stock MS feature

traction control - Doable, and firmware exists for it; requires multiple VR sensor inputs; much easier with the GPIO board

have a 10 position dial swtich for boost control - There are firmwares that allow a multi-position switch, but seriously, are you going to map out 10 different boost curves?

log coolant and oil temps, oil pressure, fuel pressure , AIT's, MAP, TPS, EMAP - Most of these the ECU already knows about; but a couple of analog inputs exist on the board that can be used to log oil temp/pressure and fuel pressure, and display/transmit them

14 different duty cycles - This one confuses me. I assume you mean 14 different injectors, and their individual duty cycles, which still doesn't make a ton of sense to me, as that would involve 14 separate injector banks. But yes, with the router board you can run port fuel injection with individual cylinder fuel/spark trim on up to 16 injectors in any configuration; If you mean something different here, do clarify.

and display it all on your laptop in any configuration possible while having CAN communications with a digital dash? - Well, the Megatune software will lay out whatever you want, however you want, and as I mentioned earlier, the board supports CAN, so hooking up any number of CAN devices is rather trivial.

The ECU spec'd out there is non-trivial, as far as megasquirts go. You get into pin count limits and whatnot, but if we use the router and GPIO boards via CAN, which run about $200 each, then we have a sub $800 system which supports all of that, and requires very few mods to the actual MS board; the GPIO board supports all of the extra inputs/outputs necessary, and they're configurable in software.

Ok, so I'm impressed and admittadely a little surprised. So I went and downloaded the software. You cannot without being condemned for insanity say there is even the remotest possibilty of comparision between the two softwares, capabilities, and datalogging not to mention the support offered.

I wonder if it makes more sense to ship your car to puerto rico, have the job done there, and shipped back to the U.S....I bet the job would be done way quicker/easier lol

Titanium.

You should turn the Jspec engine to TDC and then pour ATF in it and let it set. Then after a few days, rotate it and add ATF. After a rotation or so, that should loosen up the seals and break down the carbon build up.

I bought about 25 complete T2 engines that were low compression from a place in california and about 75% of them were carbon locked.

Bryan

Yeah B, The megasquirt is a hell of a machine. The software is opensource so what you get is not necessarily what it has to be. If you were so inclined or had connections you could have individuals reprogram the software to be better suited/more user friendly/out of this world program ability, etc. It all depends on the LOE (level of effort), and aforementioned knowledge. I have enough knowledge to sit down and do it... but time is a biggggg factor for me. I don't have the time to sit down and solder the components together and then re-program the machine code and datalogging software, trouble shoot the bugs, etc. and still have my car together in time for my internship and/or school.

The benefit of the Megasquirt is that it's only limited by ones knowledge and ability to alter the hardware and software.

We offer a A/c and P/s kit now. Figured I would keep everyone updated :)

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ead.php?t=8162


Titanium, if I was at DGRR I would have voted for your FC too. That is a nice ass car you have there! Finding 385rwhp on seq. twins is a bit of a pain though. 360rwhp is the best power we have gotten out of a seq. twin setup. Your RE engine, depending on your port size, is mis-matched for making high power out of stock REW twins. So its going to be a up-hill battle.

Logan, The AC/PS kit is an work of art!! Fantastic job!!

I can't wait to get my 20B kit from you:)

Titanium, I agree.. And I was there and I voted for you:) You put great deal of work on that car!

That kit looks very nice. And as I posted on the "other forum" I am very impressed with your detailed responses to posted questions. Shows your commitment to customer service:)

You won't be disappointed Phil, they do great stuff. Can't say enough about those guys!! :)

I know! I'm very impressed with engineering/custom work that goes into designing those pieces and Logan's knowledge on things.

I can't wait to get their kit!! I'll post it up once I get them:)

Bryan, it's Brian! :rofl: 13B-RE, sew REW's, I bought a cartridge from you, we talk all the time, we got WAY back ;) I thought about snagging a second motor and trying that trick, but rebuilding it was easier. The first one that was carbon locked popped in Febuary and took out the front rotor and housing. All my seals came in for engine #4 though :rofl:

Thanks! I appreciate it. I think the port sizing that I went with is pretty spot on. So far the numbers are 313RWHP on wastegate but creeping to about 9psi @ 7000, and 346 @ 4800 before the fuel issue took over. I think 380's @ 8k are possible on stockers.

You should go to DGRR next year. It was by far, the best show, gathering, anything that I've EVER been to.

Thanks Phil:icon_tup: You put your heart and soul into DGRR and it shows. The absolute highlight of my year. I can't wait to get back to next years. I tell everyone that if there is one show to get to, this is the one, without a doubt.

There's my problem right there. I don't have the time or the knowledge to do all of that. I'm a finance/mechanical guy. All that electronic crap is something that I'm just not interested in. Regardless, if it works for you, great, if its the route you want to take, all the better for you. I still, and I know I'm sounding like a prick from a pedastal, but to me there is just no comparision between a MS and a Motec, sorry. Yes the MS in this very thread has surprised me, I'll admit it, but back to back comparisions..........

Edit - Logan - I'm big into doing my own fabrication, I can't think of one part that's under my hood that I didn't build, and HOT DAMN that kit is a work of art. Beautiful, just beauutiful

Through alot of testing, n/a and turbo, we have found the RE intake to have a peak torque occurring higher in the rpm band (around 7-8k). The FD intake shows most in the mid-range. The factory twins will only have their time to shine in the 5500-6500 rpm range for peak torque. After that the airflow and heat of the twins will have a hard time going further. Torque will fall like a rock. I still think 380's will be within your grasp, but it may possibly take a FD intake to get there. Who knows for sure, it will be fun either way right?

I am planning on making it next year for sure, even if it means selling all my internal organs :)

Thanks! We are very happy to hear comments like that!

I dont really understand how so many people can spend upwards of 30k on there 20b swaps unless a shop is doing ALL the work.

If your smart and shop around you can easily have a killer NA setup for under 10k. However I am fortunate to use the resources at my university and from the local help with tuning and wiring.

Here is my break down if anyone is interested.

20b shortblock -- 1500 shipped, yeah I know I found a deal

20b rebuild -- all the goodies, heavy porting, balancing etc 4500-5000

(3) 13b housings -- price to be determined (prolly around 800)

Haltech platinum sport 2000 -- 1500

lS1 coils "smart coils" -- 150 bucks

Header -- 500 bucks in material (I did the fab work on it)

20b stock subframe mounts -- 100 bucks (again I did the fab work)

Electric meizere 55gpm waterpump refurbished -- 150 bucks

ITB's (untested) 250 bucks in material (again fabbed by me)

Misc. electronics, wiring, sensors -- 800

That is pretty much what I have into the car as it sits now. Its actually less than 10k more like 9k and everything is basically brand new. All the 13b related stuff I sold off almost covered the cost of the entire build so I pretty much broke even on a setup that will be more reliable, sound awesome, and make great power. I cant complain.

Those are some good prices and I look forward to seeing how it turns out. What are you doing for your subframe? The Defined kit looks pretty good. I used the Pettit/Rotary Specialties frame and it works well but it does require modified spindles. Either way, you'll need to add in the $1,500 or so cost for that also. And how about tuning? One the cheap side that would be $500. I've also heard the 13B new housings have shot up in price recently so I would be surprised if they would be under $500 a piece (Ray at Malloy quoted me $750 recently but I am sure they can be had for less). I'm missing a bunch of little things also but you get the point. It adds up quickly.

Now if you can do it all yourself, you'll end up at the $15,000 mark I'm confident. Factor in though selling off all the 13B parts and you'll knock off $6,000 or so from the price. The $30K you see frequently quoted is for the vast majority of us that can't do the work themselves. This is for a turbo setup which adds $5,000 easy into the mix. Most of us have spent way more than the $30K figure but I believe with proper planning, the job can be done for the $30K figure.

I agree with David... It does add up. Just recent months I've spent few grand and I'm still not even close to being done.. It just adds up...

I've now given up on the NA 20B idea for the RX3 and decided to build another FI engine to have it as a spare for the Cosmo... and maybe go with BNR's upgraded twins for it. I've heard from some AU/NZ guys that BNR's turbo is making great power and great response for the Cosmo.

Thats funny b/c I don't hear from those guys. I am glad that the upgrades are working out for them :D. I hook you up!

I am using the stock subframe, its very similar to logans kit. I did my own modifications to the steering rack etc. As far as tuning my buddy who tunes is amazing and is going to hook me up. I just paid for 3 T2 housings for a killer deal, so the price has been up a little bit.

The mounting the of the 20b only cost me 200 bucks in material. I bought some 3" aluminum round stock for the actual mounts and turned them down on the lathe and used some 1/4 mild steel plate for the mount brackets.

If anyone needs mounts let me know ;)

Maybe you are on to developing the next 20B conversion kit:) Keep the updates coming.

Lol nah...

Logan has much more R&D into than me..I am just keeping it simple and making it work with what I want..I dont have PS, AC or anything. However look out for a universal (interchangeable) intake setup..Models to come soon I hope.