FC Zach's '87 Sport
 

If you have met me or seen my 7 at DGRR/B3R then you probably noticed it's carbed and if you know me personally then you have probably heard me whine about it at one point or another. Years ago (many) I wanted to be different with my 2nd Gen, so I stripped the engine bay down to have nothing I didn't need and have just what I did need. I love simplicity and wanted it to be basic. When I first installed the RB Holley kit I loved it, it did what I wanted it to do and I was happy with it until it got to the point where I overcomplicated what should be a simple set up. Eventually it got to the point where I hated the Holley carb and the constant adjustments that were required to get it to run ok at best.

The last straw was on the way to B3R last year when I barely made it up a hill because the engine loaded up with sooooo much fuel that it nearly died (this has happened way too many times before this incident). I lost my temper to say the least and placed parts orders as soon as I figured out what I wanted to do and where to get the parts.

I wanted to retain the simplistic aesthetics that I've always had with my engine bay and to do this I decided I would keep the intake manifold and use a proper sized throttle body and also by removing the distributor and replacing it with a trigger wheel along with a slimmer coil design that's more up to date than what I had been using.

Here is an old pic from many years ago, this is the old set up.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3674/3...85a6303727.jpg

The first major purchase was the throttle body. After years of searching, looking for a throttle body that wasn't too big, I finally made my decision. I chose an efi Hardware 700cfm throttle body. Thing sure is a work of art, it has ball bearing shafts and a smooth CNC machined finish. It's also nice that the TPS is an easily sourced GM part.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/713/22...c684089a_z.jpg

I chose to run a Sprint RE ecu to control everything, I was amazed by how small this thing is. Will be mounted in a gutted OE ecu.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5788/2...e11c0a70_z.jpg

I wanted a more accurate measurement for oil pressure/temp as well as air/fuel, so with the help of Ludwig I chose these Defi gauges and a Haltech wideband controller. The Defi gauges will also be used to monitor fuel pressure/water temp via switches (as soon as I figure out how to do so).
https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3836/3...893b3f09_z.jpg

I had to purchase a filter pedestal in order to install pressure/temp sensors.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/716/33...c550ed6e_z.jpg

I eventually want to run a cold air intake so I searched for an undivided carb bonnet. Maybe even a turbo one day :dunno:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3729/3...dd4eaf73_z.jpg

Completely changed fuel setup.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/759/33...b4588dd0_z.jpg
New injectors, went with Bosch EV14s.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/767/22...f1914f54_z.jpg

For the ignition I chose to use the FFE trigger wheel over OEM CAS.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/674/22...101bfbb6_z.jpg

Coils will be the IGN-1As, I originally planned on mounting them with the use of this SakeBomb universal mounting kit but that was until I saw RiceRacing designing a true COP design with use of these coils. Sold the SB kit and now anxiously waiting on the RR kit :toetap05:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/757/32...882d6a2a_z.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3754/3...b2778ae0_z.jpg

While I was changing things I wanted a more efficient cooling fan and a better mount for it so I had a local fabricator make a shroud for my new fan.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/752/22...38136277_z.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/708/21...f8bef139_z.jpg

That's it for now. . I'm waiting on delivery of the new coil mount and I have Ludwig making a harness for me, as soon as these arrive I can start assembling everything and assuming there are no issues with anything I'll have (hopefully) enough time to get the car on the dyno for some tuning to be ready for DGRR. Crossing fingers and hoping for the best. worse case scenario I'll drive the daily.

Looks good man...... I've been wanting to do something differnt on the track car like get rid of the Weber and do a ITB setup but money problems.

I'll do my best to help Zach. I've got three projects i'm involved with, two are going to DGRR, but I'd love for yours to make it... even if we need to do tuning on the way there ;) I should have some sprintRE maps that you can use/modify to simplify tuning.

Looking good man!!

Thanks guys! I hope it makes it but if it takes rushing it then I think it would be best to drive the celica, we'll see.

If the RR kit doesn't make it in time, you can always rig up some coils just to run
the leading spark (who needs trailing anyway :)) Look forward to seeing it.

That RR setup is sweet, I wonder of it will work on a 12A? I know there would be some
size differences due to the housing widths. Never got an answer on that in the thread
he had on it.

Looks GREAT Zach! Can't wait to see her this year :squint: The only thing I would change would be the fuel return line.... I would flip it 180* and run it on top of the intake as opposed to on top of the exhaust...

And screw the dyno if you can't make it.. ROAD TUNE!!! You get MUCH better driveability when tuning on the road than on the Dyno..... dyno is great for WOT but for the nitty gritty stuff... road tuning is where it's at. Ask MC about the difference between the first go around and the second when I spent a few hours driving back and forth tuning the low load cruising and transition. He actually liked it better the first time, it was much more violent as opposed to now he says it drives like a stock car until you mash the go-pedal. As a tuner that what I was looking for... I guess MC liked breaking the tires loose at 65 on the highway :rofl:

That's what I'm fucking talking about!

DON'T DO IT!!!

Rice's latest posts seem to suggest he's not going to offer the IGN-1A stuff. I need to message him to see what's up.

I love the setup. The similarities in our builds is pretty uncanny. Would have been even more so if I didn't start going crazy. But then again, that ended up benefiting you ;)

This look better?
http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...0&d=1427821533

I would, he may work with you. . It definitely wont hurt.

Ha Ha, thank you! you've been a major contribution to the car. What is it so far? Sprint RE and custom gauge mount?

My thoughts exactly, I do have some cut to fit wires left over from previous experiments. .

I remember you asking that and my understanding from it was that you would have to make your own mount like I am. I'll be bringing some metal off the bottom mount, front stud. Regarding the width of the mounting ears for the coils, I guess you'd have to trim them. Something like this:
http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1427824137

Hi I was referred here and can reply to you now if you like?
Problem with 12A (apart from width) is I have no 12A housings here and I cant verify the exact plug locations.... makes it hard to guess bracket system for it.

Even the IGN-1A system due to variances in coils and other shit means that needs some shimming and slight angling of COP Adaptors (I know that is speeeell wrong LOL but I stick with it) to get it to line up.

There is no such issues with the M&W CDI set up, this is why I decided to stick only with that. I wrote in the other thread that I may continue to supply the COP Adaptors so end users can make up their own bracket systems, had a few 20B people request this.

Hope you all understand, just that IGN-1A type coil is a full on C-U-N-T, it would be so much easier and neater if it was a female end like the M&W CDI coil then I could fuck off the complexity of the COP adaptor unit itself.

I may look into doing an injection mold and forming some type of integral silicone boot with an internal contact? but that is expensive ............. Just doing a BDC or HC type typing brain fart idea over the internet lol :willy_nilly: I doubt I will spend more time on it personally, just push the proper CDI ignition systems anyway since they are much better than ghetto inductive coils in my experience.

Back to your original programing now :)

Thanks for getting back to me. I reread the thread and you did reply somewhat.
I understand the issue completely and the market forces. Making
my own, as Zach pointed out, is the way I would have to go for this. Love
the work you did on the 13B mount. I hope Zach gets his in time. I'd like to
see it at DGRR.

Looking good buddy. Hope u get it going for dgrr.

Yer wearin my Flannel in the Sprint RE pic!:smilielol5:

Anyone who wants the COP Adaptors (to make their own coil brackets) please email me today if you can, as I am organizing next production run of these and will make as many as people want to buy. Thanks.

Great news! ! LMS-EFI harness arrived, amazing work Chris does! Very satisfied with the quality of work. Also, my coil mount is day/s away from arriving, last I checked it made it stateside on the west coast the 7th so I should see it shortly :) Chances are looking good that I can drive the 7 to the gap :auto:

Started on running harness through firewall and bay, so far so good.

I had enough room to secure both the Sprint RE and wideband controller within the gutted stock ECU. Aside from ease of troubleshooting in the future, is there any reason I shouldn't have my fuse/relay box where it is in the pic? It fits snug in that location and I believe the kick plate will still fit over it (haven't tried yet) so I figured I'd leave it there.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2909/3...b8272689_z.jpg

So far everything has been plug-&-play without any issue. Can barely see in pic but I secured the water temp sensor on the backside of the pump housing under the thermostat, is that correct?
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/631/33...067465f1_z.jpg

Only a couple of connections left to make. I need to drill/tap a spot in the carb bonnet for the IAT sensor, wire fuel pump and connect O2 sensor. Once coil accessories arrive I should then be able to complete and start the car for the first time in 6 months :party:

Far left connector? If so yes.


Lookin good

Yep, that's the one! :hurray: Thanks

Your welcome.

If you didn't have it already.


http://foxed.ca/index.php?page=rx7manual

Sweet, freebies!

Looks good zach.... we'll hammer tonight and see how close we can get!

Major thanks to the help I had from the locals this weekend, without their help I would have thrown the towel and would have felt committed to driving the daily to DGRR.

After finding and correcting one issue after the other throughout the weekend, with both parts and wiring, we finally got a break today. Today we got it to start and dialed a few things in nicely. Tomorrow I need to clean up a few things and then it'll be ready for more tuning.

Here's a video:
https://flic.kr/p/s4moEQ

:cheers2: Sweet!!

Outstanding

Once again I'm having issues. . (I thought this EFI thing was supposed to be easy plug-n-play/turn-key type stuff)

Car was running Sunday, not so much tonight. Nothing has changed except for my battery and/or starter sounds weak. I'll test these tomorrow and replace whatever needs replacing. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

Also, once again I feel defeated and feel that the 7 may not make it! If that is the case I wont be rotorless. .. The KMS4 will be displayed somewhere at the show.

Does it start & run fine with a jump start? If so, sounds like you've got a parasitic electrical load that is draining down the battery over time, as if leaving the lights on. Any new wiring from the EFI setup that is NOT switched (i.e., wired to constant power)? That's the first place I'd look.

it would be unrealistic to expect several aftermarket parts to plug into eachother and work flawlessly on the first attempt without using your head to do any troubleshooting ever.

also, if the issue ends up being your battery or your starter, it probably wouldnt have fired up with a carburetor either.

just remain calm, swap out the battery and/or starter, and get it fired up. if it doesnt start like it did sunday, we'll do some troubleshooting and figure out why. it will be ok :)

If all you did was run for short spurts, the battery never got recharged 100%. Recharge that
battery and you are probably good to go.

The battery appeared to be bad according to my trickle charger so I bought another. The car cranked better but still no spark. . Eventually the starter went south and luckily for me the local Advance had one in stock.

We tried adjusting the gap between the trigger wheel and sensor, tested voltage to coils, and even attached an OEM CAS to test for spark which gave the same results.

Everything but the ignition appears to function properly. What makes this a mystery is that nothing has changed since Sunday afternoon and now no spark.

What is the trigger since last home value while cranking. Should be 30 at all times with the Renesis wheel. If it's not 30, you have a trigger issue. Contact me if that's the case.

How are you checking for spark? Timing light or actually inserting a plug in a wire, grounding it, and visually confirming spark? Timing lights are finicky and may or may not strobe consistently. Visually verify spark with a plug.

Are the plugs in the engine fouled? If they are, you may not get a light strobe and it certainly won't start.

I told Jacob to space the sensor at .040". That should be good but confirm that with FFE. Their kits are pretty darn consistent and you shouldn't need to shim it.

This I'm unsure of, I didn't set the Haltech up. Jacob may know.

Both, with a new plug grounded and with a timing light.

The plugs are definitely bad, I ordered replacements which will arrive sometime today.

We did adjust it and got it around .035/.040 I also sent FFE an email requesting where I can purchase a replacement sensor locally as there's no time to order one.

Being in a hurry is your biggest enemy right now. That rarely produces good results.

You need to check the trigger since last home value before moving on. Do you even get an RPM value in ECU Manager while cranking? The VR sensors never go bad. I highly doubt a failed sensor is your issue.

Email me the map your working with. If you have WiFi available where the car is, download the Team Viewer software from teamviewer.com and let me know a good time and I can remote in and try to help you troubleshoot.

I'm not in a rush anymore, I'm content with driving the daily now. That and I really don't know what else to do.

I'll admit that I'm stupid with this stuff, I'll get help to do this after DGRR

i was not watching triggers since last home, but just verifying that the trigger counter increasing while cranking. there was an RPM value in ECU manager while cranking, but it was inconsistent.


what's strange is that we had this set up correctly on sunday: rx8 style trigger settings (vr sensor shimmed to .030), direct fire ignition typical settings, zero'd the timing, got it running nicely, and planned to do a street tune the next evening.
then the next day, poof, no spark except once when turning the key to ON and once or twice while cranking (seemingly randomly). this happened with both the timing light and an additional NEW spark plug attached to one of the coils while cranking.
last night we re-shimmed the trigger from .030 to .020 and then to .040 just for troubleshooting, and it seemed to make no difference. i also changed the trigger voltage up and down slightly and their original settings (which were being used sunday) seem to work best.

things we did not do last night:
1. replace all 4 spark plugs with new spark plugs
2. watch triggers since last home

if the spark plugs don't fix it i'm stumped. the teamviewer idea is probably best at this point, ludwig, if you can do that at some point this evening.

Zach and Ludwig,

Looks like I can come over for a bit tonight for troubleshooting. Email him your map to look over things, and we'll check the Diagnostic data when I get there, then we'll check coils, etc.

That's awesome Paul, I'll text you shortly.

After taking a short break from the Mazda to calm down from a temper tantrum I threw last week that ended with a hundred piece timing light puzzle, I got back on it Saturday. If I recall the rage stemmed from the car still not starting after replacing the trigger wheel sensor. .

With new timing light purchased and in hand, my cousin stopped by and helped me out early Saturday, he held the unmounted sensor close to the wheel and moved it while I cranked the engine. We got it running so I added spacers based off the gap he recalled seeing between the sensor/mount. From there we took it for a test drive around town without any issue, even hot start was good. Later I met up with Jacob to start with street tuning, we put some miles on it and got it pretty close. We are at a stopping point till I complete my intake/filter assy.

Here's the big kick in the nuts! That evening during intermission of the playoff game with other rotard friends over that were equally excited to hear my car was finally running, I attempted to start it for them. . . No start! :cuss:

I'm taking another break from this POS :o10:

Issues were with the trigger specifically. We would get plenty of trigger hits, but never home hits, and therefor the trigger since last home would also be wacky. Also we'd get the occasional "miss" which relates to those missed homes. Has anyone else had the below issue? Is this indicative of a interference or wiring (connection) issue? The car does run and drive great when the issue is not presenting itself, and it doesn't really come and go, just either does work, or doesn't. Almost at the "wiggling wires" phase.

It is an FC engine with FFE reluctor trigger. Hall effect isn't an option with sprintRE IIRC, but the most people have great luck with the SprintRE and the FFE triggers. (usually plug and play).

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1430152258

Don't have access to a scope, do you? I can loan you mine if not. The answer is most likely going to be in trigger threshold voltage. A scope takes the guess work out of it.