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-   -   Your experience with various coilers (https://rotarycarclub.com/showthread.php?t=18523)

project86 01-22-2015 08:56 PM

Your experience with various coilers
 
I've had good experience in cars with BC coils but thats about it. Im wanting a good quality set up for my car (performance, ride, adjustability, blah, blah). What other brands have you had experience with that you would recommend that aren't overly expensive?

mazpower 01-22-2015 10:18 PM

I feel like I've had this conversation recently lol...I really like Tein Flex coilovers. Got them on my FD and Miata. I don't know what you consider "aren't overly expensive" but you will get what you pay for.

project86 01-23-2015 10:07 AM

just realized i didn't finish typing coilovers.... anyway. I am a big believer in you get what you pay for .. but i also don't want to buy an over capable set if i don't need to. I like the price of the BCs and the quality of them. Aren't the Tein Flex around $1100?

infernosg 01-23-2015 10:17 AM

No complaints with my Stance coilovers (old GR+ model: 1-way adjustable, inverted front struts, and rear helper springs). I think all the ~$1000 coilovers (Stance, Yellowspeed, BC Racing etc.) come out of the same shop in China or whatever. I've had good experience with the Customer Support staff at Stance though (in the U.S.).

chibikougan 01-23-2015 02:40 PM

You know what the super drifts where like.

project86 01-23-2015 02:53 PM

ya i forgot you had those. i don't quite remember what they felt like. that was a long time a go haha. you don't still have them do you?

chibikougan 01-23-2015 03:38 PM

No Ryan bought them built a BP na. Then last i heard it was crashed on 10th ave bridge racing a shitbox that cut his lane while they where racing and hit him.


I liked them a lot but they are short stroke and very agro spring rates are very high as compared to the BC's.

chibikougan 01-23-2015 03:42 PM

You have most likely talked to everyone more lately then I have. Well I talked to Sean a while back when I saw him and his daughter out for a drive.

Talked to Matt a little while back.

RETed 01-23-2015 06:56 PM

Are you racing with them?
I.e. autocross, time trial, drag, road race, etc?


-Ted

Mazdabater 01-23-2015 08:14 PM

Honestly check out http://mcasuspension.com/ they are doing all the good WTAC cars at the moment. For $1500AU you couldn't go past the blue suspension at the moment. They were chasing an FC late last year so they have set them up to suit the vehicle properly. I plan on ditching my tiens for some later in the year. With the exchange rate like it is, it's a good time for you to be buying Australian LOL

rdgt99 01-24-2015 10:49 AM

I like the Tein Flex on my FD for the money. Plus you can add the EDFC and adjust them from inside the car. I hope to be able to get car on track this year but it has been great for street and mountain driving (Deals Gap, etc).

project86 01-24-2015 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed (Post 298443)
Are you racing with them?
I.e. autocross, time trial, drag, road race, etc?


-Ted

Ted. I really just plan on spirited street driving and maybe some occasional track use (autox or road racing) if the opportunity presents itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazdabater (Post 298454)
Honestly check out http://mcasuspension.com/ they are doing all the good WTAC cars at the moment. For $1500AU you couldn't go past the blue suspension at the moment. They were chasing an FC late last year so they have set them up to suit the vehicle properly. I plan on ditching my tiens for some later in the year. With the exchange rate like it is, it's a good time for you to be buying Australian LOL

Ill have a look at them!

RETed 01-27-2015 08:03 PM

It sounds like you want them under $1,000 (if possible) or just around that price...?

If so, you're going to have to give up some adjustability and options.

I absolutely do NOT touch anything China / Hong Kong / Taiwan / Korea.

Almost anything from Japan (legit) is overly stiff for street use - maybe I AM getting old. :P
This includes Tein.

Absolutely best street suspension I have ever been in an FC is a Koni yellows + Ground Control coilovers.
This is not so much the GC components, but the Koni's...
Koni's are Euro...you can't go wrong with Euro suspension components.

Koni yellows - by themselves, for the FC - are like $500 - $600 for all 4 corners.
Problem is that the fronts are "strut inserts," and you need the hack the bottom, stock MacPherson strut housing to make them work.
Also, these are not drop-in fitments, so the strut shaft are not the same dimensions as the stock pieces.

GC sells their coilover spring kit for $450 - $500.
Combine that with the Koni's and you're already at the $1,000 mark.
GC does sell a "premium" suspension package with their camber / caster plates for a cool $1,699 on their website.
The FC really doesn't need the caster adjustment, but the camber adjustment is welcome, especially if you drop the car significantly or want to fine tune the alignment settings for race...

Just to state the obvious, you can usually get the (GC) pieces (I would recommend you buy the Koni struts brand new) in good used condition, and springs don't usually go bad.
I know there's cheap coilover spring kits out there, and most of them would work with the Koni's (GASP!), but try and get name brand springs like Eibach, Hypercoil, etc.

One of the biggest problems with those complete coilover systems is that if they start to go bad - and they will - how will you service them?
Tein does have a USA service center.
Most of the other brand do NOT - even most of the Japan brands like Cusco, HKS, etc.
Your Koni's can be serviced by a number of authorized service centers around the country.

You want cheap?
Start with a set of KYB AGX's - these are the best bang-for-the-buck shocks for the FC...


-Ted

project86 01-27-2015 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed (Post 298792)
It sounds like you want them under $1,000 (if possible) or just around that price...?

If so, you're going to have to give up some adjustability and options.

I absolutely do NOT touch anything China / Hong Kong / Taiwan / Korea.

Almost anything from Japan (legit) is overly stiff for street use - maybe I AM getting old. :P
This includes Tein.

Im not afraid of stiff. My passenger might be but I'm not... :squint:


Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed (Post 298792)
Koni yellows - by themselves, for the FC - are like $500 - $600 for all 4 corners.
Problem is that the fronts are "strut inserts," and you need the hack the bottom, stock MacPherson strut housing to make them work.
Also, these are not drop-in fitments, so the strut shaft are not the same dimensions as the stock pieces.

I would really probably prefer a drop in option just for the convenience.. and if i have to pay for that then so be it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed (Post 298792)
One of the biggest problems with those complete coilover systems is that if they start to go bad - and they will - how will you service them?
Tein does have a USA service center.
Most of the other brand do NOT - even most of the Japan brands like Cusco, HKS, etc.

I have considered that. Which is one reason why I was attracted to the BC set up other than the fact that I've actually been in cars that had them. At least i was under the impression that they could be serviced in the states.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed (Post 298792)
You want cheap?
Start with a set of KYB AGX's - these are the best bang-for-the-buck shocks for the FC...


-Ted

I'm really not overly concerned with cheap. I just don't want to unnecessarily spend more than i need to. I have Tokico blues and Eibach pro springs on the car now and i enjoyed them. But looking back on it i wish i would have just spend the extra couple three hundred on coilovers instead.

chibikougan 01-27-2015 08:22 PM

You guys quit making me want another FC....:suspect:

Pete_89T2 01-28-2015 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 298478)
Ted. I really just plan on spirited street driving and maybe some occasional track use (autox or road racing) if the opportunity presents itself.

IF that's how the car will be used, THEN...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed (Post 298792)
Start with a set of KYB AGX's - these are the best bang-for-the-buck shocks for the FC...


-Ted


^Go with this, and a few other suspension bits you'll be super happy. I use my FC the same as you, and my setup started with the KYB AGX's. At the same time I put those in, I installed a set of Racing Beat springs, and later on replaced most of the stock bushings with the Energy Suspension polyurethane replacements (i.e, stabilizer bar bushings, front/rear control arms, etc.). Also added the Racing Beat "DTSS eliminator" bushings, because it felt like the stock DTSS bushings were worn out, and made the rear end handle unpredictably at the limits.

I'm still on stock wheels & tire sizes, and am very happy with this setup.

project86 01-28-2015 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete_89T2 (Post 298828)
^Go with this, and a few other suspension bits you'll be super happy. I use my FC the same as you, and my setup started with the KYB AGX's. At the same time I put those in, I installed a set of Racing Beat springs, and later on replaced most of the stock bushings with the Energy Suspension polyurethane replacements (i.e, stabilizer bar bushings, front/rear control arms, etc.). Also added the Racing Beat "DTSS eliminator" bushings, because it felt like the stock DTSS bushings were worn out, and made the rear end handle unpredictably at the limits.

I'm still on stock wheels & tire sizes, and am very happy with this setup.

So... this is where i might sound silly...:suspect:.... but i want the to be able to make the car as low as I feel like. Im not one of the "hella flush" fan boys or anything but i do like to aggressive look of a low FC and I'm not planning on running stock size/offset wheels. I am about to replace all the suspension bushings with the same kit and getting the rear toe steer eliminator bushings.

Would you mind posting some pictures of what your car looks like with your set up?

Pete_89T2 01-28-2015 08:10 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 298829)
Would you mind posting some pictures of what your car looks like with your set up?

Here you go... this was at DGRR, last year or year before, forget which but same suspension & stock wheels.

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...1&d=1422450594

RETed 01-28-2015 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 298829)
So... this is where i might sound silly...:suspect:.... but i want the to be able to make the car as low as I feel like. Im not one of the "hella flush" fan boys or anything but i do like to aggressive look of a low FC and I'm not planning on running stock size/offset wheels. I am about to replace all the suspension bushings with the same kit and getting the rear toe steer eliminator bushings.

Watch out...

The FC doesn't like going that low without running into major camber problems, especially in the rear.
An (upright) rear camber adjust rod will only take out so much (negative) camber in the rear.
Even with the adjustable links on the front of the rear subframe, you end up smacking the whole thing on compression.
Pete_89T2's pic looks like it has a smidgen too much camber in the rear, or it's a weird illusion of the pic due to the compression of the suspension due to the turn...

You'd get away with about 2 - 3 "fingers" of gap in the rear before there is really too much (negative) camber.
Remember, rear camber hurts your straight-line acceleration due to inefficient contact patch of the rear tires (upon acceleration).
It also causes uneven tire wear back there.

Fronts are no problem due to almost any off-the-shelf front camber plates can dial it all out.
It's still a bit problem in the rear on really drastic drops...


-Ted

project86 01-28-2015 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed (Post 298870)
Watch out...

The FC doesn't like going that low without running into major camber problems, especially in the rear.
An (upright) rear camber adjust rod will only take out so much (negative) camber in the rear.
Even with the adjustable links on the front of the rear subframe, you end up smacking the whole thing on compression.
Pete_89T2's pic looks like it has a smidgen too much camber in the rear, or it's a weird illusion of the pic due to the compression of the suspension due to the turn...

You'd get away with about 2 - 3 "fingers" of gap in the rear before there is really too much (negative) camber.
Remember, rear camber hurts your straight-line acceleration due to inefficient contact patch of the rear tires (upon acceleration).
It also causes uneven tire wear back there.

Fronts are no problem due to almost any off-the-shelf front camber plates can dial it all out.
It's still a bit problem in the rear on really drastic drops...


-Ted

EDIT: just remembered Mazdatrix sells rear camber links to adjust it... im unsure what the mechanical limits are though.

chibikougan 01-28-2015 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 298871)
EDIT: just remembered Mazdatrix sells rear camber links to adjust it... im unsure what the mechanical limits are though.



Thats why mine was so low short stroke coilers and I had AWR eerything in the arse lateral links spherical bearings etc.

Pete_89T2 01-28-2015 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed (Post 298870)
Pete_89T2's pic looks like it has a smidgen too much camber in the rear, or it's a weird illusion of the pic due to the compression of the suspension due to the turn...

^I noticed that in the picture too, and wondered why it looked that way. I always assumed it's just the lateral-G loading combined with the wavy road surface crowning. The RB springs I have are supposed to lower the car about 3/4", but when I measured the difference (from subframe rails to my garage floor), the difference was only about 1/4" lower than with my stock springs & shocks. Granted, the stock springs were likely worn out and sagging when I replaced them.

chibikougan 01-28-2015 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete_89T2 (Post 298880)
^I noticed that in the picture too, and wondered why it looked that way. I always assumed it's just the lateral-G loading combined with the wavy road surface crowning. The RB springs I have are supposed to lower the car about 3/4", but when I measured the difference (from subframe rails to my garage floor), the difference was only about 1/4" lower than with my stock springs & shocks. Granted, the stock springs were likely worn out and sagging when I replaced them.


Haha the dreaded worn out spension lift when replaced....:smilielol5:

infernosg 01-28-2015 04:33 PM

If you stick with the stock rear subframe-to-body bushings you can actually run three "camber-correcting" devices at the same time: the adjustable "vertical link", the individual camber adjusters (think AWR), and Whiteline (I think) has some offset upper polyurethance bushings for the rear hubs.

My rear isn't too (coils are at the maximum height) low but like Ted said the negative camber can quickly get out of hand. I have delrin subframe-to-body bushings so I can't use an adjustable vertical link to correct camber. I have the AWR individual adjusters and I'm seriously considering the Whiteline bushings.

FWIW, I think Whiteline also has offset bushings for the rear of the front control arms to increase caster.

project86 01-28-2015 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chibikougan (Post 298872)
Thats why mine was so low short stroke coilers and I had AWR eerything in the arse lateral links spherical bearings etc.

Stop making fun of my grammar mistake.... or else....:squint:

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernosg (Post 298929)
If you stick with the stock rear subframe-to-body bushings you can actually run three "camber-correcting" devices at the same time: the adjustable "vertical link", the individual camber adjusters (think AWR), and Whiteline (I think) has some offset upper polyurethance bushings for the rear hubs.

My rear isn't too (coils are at the maximum height) low but like Ted said the negative camber can quickly get out of hand. I have delrin subframe-to-body bushings so I can't use an adjustable vertical link to correct camber. I have the AWR individual adjusters and I'm seriously considering the Whiteline bushings.

FWIW, I think Whiteline also has offset bushings for the rear of the front control arms to increase caster.

Do you have pics of your set up? Do you think i'd be missing out by not replacing the subframe to body bushings?

chibikougan 01-28-2015 07:03 PM

but i like the coilers.....:rofl:

infernosg 01-29-2015 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 298942)
Do you have pics of your set up?

These are the only pictures I have of the AWR pieces.

Stock on left, AWR on right:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1...417001024a.jpg

Installed on the car:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-9...0417001037.jpg

With the Stance coilovers at the highest setting (any taller and the strut body would pop out) I have the AWR pieces max'd out (at their shortest setting) and I'm a little under (over?) one degree of negative camber in the rear. Like Ted said this causes the upper part of the bolt to hit the body under compression. Because of that I've cut off ~1/4" of the bolt for a little more clearance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 298942)
Do you think i'd be missing out by not replacing the subframe to body bushings?

Given the age of the car I'd at least replace them with OEM parts. There isn't a "Mazdaspeed" option for the subframe-to-body bushings like there is for the engine, transmission, and differential so there's no middle ground between the "soft" stock bushings and "solid" aftermarket ones.

project86 01-29-2015 08:53 AM

Do you have a picture of your car?

infernosg 01-29-2015 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 299001)
Do you have a picture of your car?

That car is long gone but here are some pictures from around that time. I was able to get more camber out of the rear after these pictures as I mentioned above.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-B...25282%2529.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_...0/CIMG0033.JPG

project86 01-29-2015 08:26 PM

Man.. so i guess people that have their FCs pretty low had to modify the rear to get it to work correctly? which bolt exactly did you have to cut?

mattallac 01-29-2015 09:15 PM

Try Ground Control .com there suspension parts are top of the line for the $ . they are in northern california .

infernosg 01-30-2015 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 299176)
Man.. so i guess people that have their FCs pretty low had to modify the rear to get it to work correctly? which bolt exactly did you have to cut?

See the long bolt connecting the two ends in my first picture of the AWR piece above? You reduce negative camber but tightening that, which brings the two ends together. This causes the threaded portion of the bolt to stick out above the top end, which brings it very close to the body. For me it always contacted the passenger's side storage bin. Not so much the driver's side for some reason.

One thing I never got to try was to see if I could use the second, upper hole on the bottom piece. I'm pretty sure it's there so AWR could machine one design for both sides but if the upper hole could be used you'd automatically gain another .5-1 in. of adjustment to reduce negative camber. I'm pretty sure you'd have to slightly modify the control arm though. I may try this when my current car is at the body shop and I have easy access to the subframe again.

RETed 01-30-2015 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 299176)
Man.. so i guess people that have their FCs pretty low had to modify the rear to get it to work correctly? which bolt exactly did you have to cut?

You just can't...
The rear suspension has to be extensively modified.
Nothing off-the-shelf will fix the extreme negative camber in the back when you tuck the wheels into the fenders.
I've had coilovers dropped all the way to the point I was dragging my gas tank on the ground...we're talking -5 or more degrees of camber.
My rear camber adjust rod was collapsed all the way down.
Even if I had the front adjust links, it might dial out another 1 degree.
After that, the rear subframe just clangs onto itself and makes a horrible racket.

Fronts can go lower, but you usually bottom out most of the drop-in struts / shocks made for the FC.
Basically, you'd need a custom short-stroke set-up for front and front camber plates to adjust...
Read: big bucks and lots of custom work


-Ted

project86 01-30-2015 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed (Post 299285)
You just can't...
The rear suspension has to be extensively modified.
Nothing off-the-shelf will fix the extreme negative camber in the back when you tuck the wheels into the fenders.
I've had coilovers dropped all the way to the point I was dragging my gas tank on the ground...we're talking -5 or more degrees of camber.
My rear camber adjust rod was collapsed all the way down.
Even if I had the front adjust links, it might dial out another 1 degree.
After that, the rear subframe just clangs onto itself and makes a horrible racket.

Fronts can go lower, but you usually bottom out most of the drop-in struts / shocks made for the FC.
Basically, you'd need a custom short-stroke set-up for front and front camber plates to adjust...
Read: big bucks and lots of custom work


-Ted

Thanks Ted.

It seems as long as I'm not trying to drag frame... which I'm not... I should be satisfied with the ride height.

This car has been a been stuck in my head since i found it years ago. I love the stance of it.

http://www.stancenation.com/2010/10/...school-flavor/

93rx7r1 01-30-2015 09:19 PM

I have the Tein Flex coilovers on my FD as well & I have been very happy with them as well. I do some auto X here and there as well as spirited weekend driving.

RETed 01-30-2015 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project86 (Post 299294)
Thanks Ted.

It seems as long as I'm not trying to drag frame... which I'm not... I should be satisfied with the ride height.

This car has been a been stuck in my head since i found it years ago. I love the stance of it.

http://www.stancenation.com/2010/10/...school-flavor/

Body kit parts will make the car look lower than it really is...
FEED front lip, or that blasted copy from that guy was who ripping people off
I believe those are the old Border side skirts.
R.E. Amemiya rear, side bumper caps?

Not a fan of the hippari tire stretch.

Fenders have been pulled.
The rear camber is significant - over -2 degrees, which will eat the tires.
Fronts got more negative camber than rear, but that's easily fixed with front camber plates.


-Ted

project86 01-30-2015 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed (Post 299297)
Body kit parts will make the car look lower than it really is...
FEED front lip, or that blasted copy from that guy was who ripping people off
I believe those are the old Border side skirts.
R.E. Amemiya rear, side bumper caps?

Not a fan of the hippari tire stretch.

Fenders have been pulled.
The rear camber is significant - over -2 degrees, which will eat the tires.
Fronts got more negative camber than rear, but that's easily fixed with front camber plates.


-Ted


Also don't like stretch. I really do want the mazdaspeed style lip. Corksport used to sell it but they don't anymore... in fact.. they don't sell much for FCs at all now.


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