So with 85 days let I really didn't get a lot done tonight... Managed to get the turbo and manifold off and on the 'vert engine with a Cosmo intake. This way I can mock up the coolant hardlines for the turbo and wastegates on the engine stand and then just transfer them over. I'm also going to rotate the CHRA 17* to create a thermal siphon when the engine shuts down. The way I had the turbo plumbed before when you shut the engine down, the heat from the mani and the turbine housing soaks into the CHRA and I've heard the coolant bubbling before and had one or two coolant lines fail.... oddly... they only fail when the engine is off.... sooooo yeah... need to address that.

Once the CHRA is rotated and locked down, back on the car with all the new lines I'll build an inlet pipe to get the air filter up into the corner behind the headlight and rebuild the AST. The coolant line exit is going to feed straight uphill into the new AST. I'll also build a new overflow tank out of sight just to clean things up a bit and not hinder the location of the air filter.

I think for this round I'll focus one area at a time. Breaking it down into four segments we've got all the mechanical and electrical under the hood. I've got some shit to do to the interior, and some mechanical stuff on the exterior. Then there's always the misc stuff that's nice to do but not required.

So the list for under the hood is as follows.
Coolant hairlines for turbo and wastegates
Swap springs out for 10psi
tweaking the open dump tube
New turbo drain hose
4port dual solenoids and braided Teflon hoses for wastegates.
New AST
New overflow tank.
Turbo inlet tubing with AIT sensor
TiAL BOV with braided lines
New open element AIT sensor
New clutch hardline
New plugs and wires
Quick swap mounts for Quicksilver and D585 coils (yeah, I'm still doing this)
New Overflow tank
3" Vbands before the cans (right now the exhaust is still one piece and it's a MOTHERFUCKER to get in and out with as big as it is....
New alternator - fuck you all ;)
Tranny.

Pretty sure that's everything that needs doing under the hood. I want to up the size of the oilcoolers and remount them farther back and re do the brake ducting. However that will wait. After that list is all done I'll move onto the interior and the wiring that I've got to do.... Anyway... all I really got done tonight was removing the turbo and mani, reclocking it and figuring out all the bits and pieces that I need to order tomorrow so I can keep at it on Thursday. Love Verocious Motorsports... their standard shipping is usually overnight if they have everything in stock

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1390974680

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1390974680

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1390974680

84 days and counting.....

Decided to do a little fab work tonight.... I got a new TiAL BOV in as a replacement for the old greedy unit which I have little faith in.... I'm hoping to put it where the old BOV once lived.... if it fits there it'll fit by 1/16 of an inch.... decided not to press my luck with that... instead I moved onto the coolant lines for the WG

Pulling from the rear housing they're run in parallel. On the side Tee fitting into the rear WG. From there it runs to a street union on the front WG. The exiting coolant from the rear WG meets the exiting coolant from the front WG with another on the side tee fitting and from there it runs up to the lower portion of the waterpump. Hopefully this extends the life of the WG. I was hoping to NOT have to do this.... but as you can clearly see, the rear WG is getting much hotter than the front. It's not from EGT's either. Those stay within a few degrees of each other.... it's just being surrounded hy heat and baked.... hopefully this helps.

I would've liked to have gotten more done tonight, but whatever.... hardlines are FUCKING TIME CONSUMING!!!

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1391058657

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1391058657

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1391058657

Like a down payment for house in AN fittings

:lol: Yeah.... they do add up... wait till you see the fucking WG lines.... all -4Braided Teflon lined and SS fittings :banghead: Hopefully I get a few more parts in today and can make some decent progress...

Ditto to this statement ^ I love Verocious, fast shipping and the prices on fittings cant be beat. Also I have to option of driving down and picking up my order :hurray:


I'm in the middle of the same project, only on the fuel system side. -6 hardlines from tank to injectors. Setting the car up for Flex fuel and decided to go all out.

Side note, I have noticed the same thing on a few dual wastegate cars now... the rear wastegate gets discolored from the heat yet the EGT's were even between both runners.

You're doing hardlines from the firewall to the rails also? What are you doing to mitigate vibration/displacement?

On Brian's car especially that rear WG is crammed in there. Very tight fit.

Nature of the ambient air flowing over the engine...
Cooler air hits the front of the engine first.
By the time the air gets to the rear of the engine, it's already heated up a lot.
Typically, the rear of engine runs hotter than the front - shoot an IR thermal gun and take some temps...


-Ted

I guess my last post was not entirely true... I am running a short run, 10"-12" (or so), of soft line between block and firewall for vibration/flex.

Mr. Ambrosio (RENESISFD) is coming over this weekend to lend his expertise and hopefully help minimize the amount of trashed lines... Hardline Party!

My goodness, I love those hardlines on the wastegates. Definitely stealing that idea at some point.

And I like the setup of your manifold more than mine also.

I'm so jealous.... have you ever? I really want to meet that Adrienne chick :rofl:

Nice.... how are you mounting the hardlines? I've got a machining project going on that you may be interested in... shoot me a txt if ya wanna know :)

Also.... If John is gonna be with you this weekend... check out one of the pics I'm about to post.... it's the MAP sensor mount that he was asking me about.... I'm having a dozen of them cut. I know John was down for 2. Mikes down for 2 :squint: I need 4 so there will be 4 left over until I have another run made... price will be in the $40 range last I spoke to him about them... we'll see after he gets them cut what the machine time is. Yeah, I know its not the normal way things are done, but I've been doing business with him for like 8 years so we take care of each other....

Very tight and completely surrounded by heat with little airflow.... nothing else is really getting killed with heat back there so I'm happy about that. Removing the seal between the firewall and the hood probably helped with that a little as well...

Rear of the engine as in housings/irons etc or are you referring to rear rotor EGT's?

NICE.... He bought one of those MasterCool hydraulic flaring tools correct? I fucking love that thing.....

Thanks man!

Why? Yours is pretty badass

Got the new TiAL installed tonight.... what a motherfucker of a PITA it was.

Basically where I had the greedy was too far back for the TiAL as it stands more proud than the old one. So what I had to do was cut the old greedy flange off. Then file down all the welding. Grind into what was left of the greedy flange to cut through the weld that penetrated, and then beat it out with a punch.

Ironically the hole that I needed for the TiAL flange was the exact same OD as the old greedy BOV. The difference is the greedy flange was .25" cast AL and the TiAL a .063ish billet. So yes Mike, the TiAL will flow METRIC ASSTONS more than the greedy ;)

Had the TiAL been .25" shorter it would've worked and I could've just welded it all up. Instead what I had to do was grind the hole in the elbow into an egg shape so that I could position the new flange as far forward as possible. What this did obviously was leave a gaping hole aft of the new flange. So... I had to lay 5 or 6 beads around the back of the hole, and then file them down to close the gap.... what an ordeal... but that's one more thing off the list.

Tolerances are TIGHT and I hope to hell the engine doesn't rock all that much. If it does, which it shouldn't because of how I mounted the trans and the torque brace I have on the UIM, I'll have to rebuild the elbow.... oh well... it started life as one of the Greedy ones for an FD... obviously this one has been just ever so slightly modified :rofl:

Seeing as how I haven't even turned on my welder since June... I can live with these welds

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1391152119

See what I mean... that's about as far forward as I could get it. Because of the angle of the elbow and the angle of the brace... it take a lot of forward movement to get the BOV just a little bit farther away from the brace.... Oh well.

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1391152119

If you look towards the back you can see where I had to weld up the gap

:svengo:http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1391152119


TIGHT!!!!!

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1391152119

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1391152119

Braided line because vac line is for pussies :lol:

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1391152119

Hey John.... as I promised.... a pic of my "LimeRock Pipe" :rofl:
It is possible to reroute dual WG's with a 4" exhaust... but it's not fun.. it's even worse to install it. Because of the motor mounts in an FC. The manifold with WG's and turbo and Downpipe need to be installed all as one... not a pleasant experience at all. I don't even want to think about how it's going to be accomplished with the water cooled wastegates. Getting to a few of those fittings is going to be a nightmare....

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...&d=1391150325]

And here is a pic for John regarding the MAP sensor mount.....
GM whateverBar MAP sensor fits ontop. The nipple is sealed by an o-ring and the cavity continues to an 1/8" NPT port where you can put your choice of fitting on. The MAP sensor bolts to the top of the mount, and the mount bolts to wherever you want it to. I love this little thing. It's a great idea.... much better than hc's idea to smear some fucking RTV inside the reference line and toss a ziptie on it... then wonder why his car won't start or stay running...
http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...&d=1391150325]

I think the guy was talking about the radiant temps of the engine - rear versus front.


-Ted

I have gone to pick up parts, its just over the state line... and I have met her :biggthumpup:

To be determined.

Saw the pictures... this is a great idea, and perfect timing. I was just looking into one of those SS pressure transducers that I can use as a map sensor because they are 1/8" NPT. Unfortunately I could only find one in 3.5 BAR and I don't plan on running anywhere near that boost so I don't want to use it due to the loss in resolution. This however is the perfect solution to be able to use a GM 3 Bar. Only downside is I wanted to mount the transducer directly to the manifold. However I could probably still mount this adapter block to the UIM somewhere then run a hardline (seeing as I wont have to worry about flex).

Yup! he is bringing all his fancy hardline tools. What flaring tool have you been using? I was looking into this Ridgid tool (the MasterCool is too rich for my blood) for finishing up everything after John leaves

http://www.amazon.com/Ridgid-41162-M...d_sim_sbs_hi_1

Ah gotcha now I'm on board :lol:

Have fun at your tube party :naughty:

You'd prob be disappointed. Everytime I talk to a chick on the phone who sounds cute they are always the antithesis :rofl:

If it's what I think it is we need to talk. I think you might be wasting your time.

My point was do you need the extra flow ;) Have you had compressor surge?

Also who taught you how to use the camera on your phone? :fawk:

Ah..... yes I can see the radiant heat back there effecting temps in the engine itself...

Oh Really? And is she :biggthumpup: or the antithesis as Mike says? (And.... I too have experienced :rofl: )

Ah..... Ok... well... if you're interested in what I've got going on, shoot me a txt or the pics will be up in here in a few weeks..

Kewl. I do love that adapter. The only thing that I would suggest is that I try to keep transducers off the engine. Keep them away from the vibrations and they tend to last longer. Of course, GM themselves have mounted their MAP sensors directly on the engine in the past soooooo yeah.

Alright, when I get them, I'll give you a shout :biggthumpup:

I borrowed Colins MasterCool with the 37* flare kit as well. Oddly enough the week after I borrowed it, Kyle bought a rebranded one from Snap-On for literally a 40% increase.... needless to say he was more than annoyed. He owns it though and will be using it a lot.

Honestly, I've tried a lot of the manual flaring tools in the past, and none have worked as well and consistently and EASILT as the MasterCool. Most of the hand crank ones would either break on me, or not give a full flare. This was of course while flaring Stainless steel. Regular steel and AL you can get away with it, but if I'm going through the trouble of building a hardline, it's going to be out of stainless. My suggestion would be to borrow one until you're done with it. Next time I need a flaring tool, I do plan on just buying one. It really is worth it considering the amount of times I've wanted to do hardlines and just ended up either using a soft line or the adapters like this
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ea...6erl/overview/
which a RETURN line ended up leaking on me... go figure.... If I have the time I'm seriously thinking about redoing my fuel lines with a 37* flare and a male adapter on the softline like this guy
http://www.anplumbing.com/images/pro...1869_thumb.jpg

:rofl; That....

There's always hope.....

Oh really.... I'll shoot you a txt in a few minutes....

I have not... yet.... but I've hear the BOV crack when it shouldn't have which was one reason for swapping it out.

:fawk: I actually almost ended up using my phone. Last time I was at horror freight they had a sale on batteries... so I picked up a bundle of AAA and AA batteries. My camera died, so I threw in 4 BRAND NEW HORROR FREIGHT batteries and the camera would take a picture, and then turn off without taking a picture. WTF? Try it again... motherfucker.... So I put it down and carried on. NOT taking pictures of the steps to make the TiAL fit. On a hunch... I pulled two of the batteries out of the garbage and replaced two of the horror freight batteries with the dead Duracell and OMFG the camera worked. So in short.... dead Duracels are better than brand new horror freight batteries. And I always thought my penlights died so quick because I was leaving them on in my pocket :rofl:

I just cant take the gayness of this build thread.......lol

:squint: Why do I think this is Dave on Kyles account? :smilielol5:

lol nope all kyle baby!!!!!! looking good tho

:smilielol5: Thanks man.... Game on to see who's car is done first?

In tranny news I just scored a bundle of S1 RX8 trannies.... Buy 4 get one free... I'm not even kidding. So plan will be to build one and cryo it for the FC. Build one and cryo it for the RX8. Build one and cryo it for the vert. Rebuild and cryo the one in the RX8 as a backup. And find the parts to rebuild the one I blew up as a backup backup. Although, the one in the 8,now has lasted 200k miles, and the vert will never see the abuse that my could has.... Aaaaannndddd I still have the S5 Til trans in case all fails.... So yeah.... Surrounded by trannies AND I LOVE IT!!!!

:suspect:

Always knew you were into all kind of tranny love!

Of course yours will be done first. Im poor. Altough i did just spend anoth 400 on parts yesterday

You should see if Liberty Transmissions has an upgrade for the RX8 tranny. They have started doing the FD's and making them great for the guys with 3 rotor turbos.

He is too stubborn

I like how/where your wastegates are attached, mainly. I do love my manifold but I like things about yours better.

Is there a Dyno sheet, or video etc In this thread?

Damn right!

Psssshhhhhh... an excuse that is not!!!!

No shit! Thanks Colin! I'll fire off an email to them tomorrow actually.... I wonder... it would be nice.... the input shaft bearings seem to be the weak point now.... well... the hubs are still an issue but I'm blaming my fragged forks for that.

It's not stubborn... it's determination damnit!

Ah.... I see.., thanks Eric. Drive to CT, I'll build you one ;)

There might be, if there is I have no idea where it would be. Seeing as I haven't updated for 2 years, any dyno sheets or video are going to be pretty useless though. I'll have her back on the dyno sometime on March most likely, depending on what goes on with the tranny... if it gets towards late March I'll just slap the TII on and head for the dyno. With some sloppy hurried tuning she did 405 @ 14psi. I'm confident if the turbo and engine are still in the same health as they were a year ago, I'll be able to eek out more power. Then we're going to turn it up to wherever we need to in order to break 500. I'm guessing it's going to be around 21-23 psi with 2000cc's of WM50 available. We'll see what happens.

I had this concern as well. However like you mentioned, there are a bunch of OEM's that mount the map sensor directly to the intake manifold. Additionally I have had my fuel pressure sensor mounted on the motor (indirectly) without issue as well as oil pressure sensor.

That said, a failed fuel/oil pressure sensor is a lot less catastrophic than a failed MAP sensor :o15:

For this reason I will mount the MAP sensor to the fire wall... I have just been bitten by the hard line bug and have been looking for ways to eliminate rubber/silicone hose wherever possible :p

When I was wiring up a 2JZ for a friend I was shocked when I saw the map sensor. It wasn't anything like the GM version, it's a simple NPT threaded sensor like the rest of the sensors on the engine. It was part of the old AEM V1 ecu kit for the supra, so not sure what car it originally came on (I think supra's had MAF sensors originally so it was not from the car itself).

Either way, it completely eliminated the need for a vacuum line, and look much cleaner because it could hide under the plenum with the air intake temp sensor.

This is exactly what I wanted to use, however for my boost level goals they do not make a sensor with acceptable resolution. Best I can find is a 3.5 bar. I'm sure there is one out there somewhere though.

Oh snap, you want more than 3.5 bar? Did you try looking them up at digikey.com? Thy have all kinds of things like that. And on his, he made over 900whp, again this is on a stroked 3.4 liter 2JZ, so I'm sure boost levels were not as high as you'll need.

haha no, less than 3.5 bar. A 3 bar is even more than I need but it would still give adequate resolution. I don't need/want a lot of power for what I do.

Thanks! I might do that lol. I'd like to build a new one and move the wastegates like yours if I can, and also move my EGT sensors back a tad. I think they're contacting flame because they act funny sometimes, especially when doing a road trip down the highway.

I like your progress. I wish I had time to work on mine these days lol.

OEM's also have to make a lot of compromises that we don't if we don't feel the need to. Soooooooooo, yeah... I'll mount my sensors where I damn well please :lol:

Yeah.... That.... the other thing that's nice about mounting a MAP sensor to the manifold, especially on top of the mani is that you don't have to worry about any sink traps in the lines collecting moisture....

Did you happen to see the pic of the MAP sensor mount? I'm having a dozen of them cut, and I have 1 or two left over if you're interested ;)

The problem with that AEM sensor is that the sensor output is not a straight line, it's more of an exponential curve. I tried to use one on a PS1000 that I tuned in an FB. The problem was the halltech didn't have enough data points to properly mimic the curve of the sensor so it was too fidgety to tune consistently. It wasn't worth it, so I stole a sensor mount from my car, popped a GM 3B MAP sensor on it and all was more than good from there.

GM 3B with a billet mount!!!

But it is nice to be able to twist a knob and dial up the ponies from say 350 to over 500.....

Hell man, I'm game! But it'll be a while... unless you want to send me your turbo, then I could mock it up in my FD :D Check out RXtacy's build thread... the two of us managed to get his TD61 in a good spot with twin TiAL MVS's.... although... just like my LimeRock pipe, I wouldn't want to do a recirc.... fuck that... besides... I like open gates tickling the bowels of my ear drums.

What kind of sensors are you using? Mine are moujnted very close to the ports I'm pretty sure they're contacting the flame and they are pretty rock solid.... you could always take the hc approach and mount them in the dp :smilielol5::rofl::lol::rofl::smilielol5:

I would like more time as well... I won't be working on the FC for another 2 weeks....

Oh I'm in no hurry to make a new manifold. Just thought it would be pretty cool. I'd like to finally put my Millermatic 140 Autoset to good use and start practicing welding, but I have career things that are taking front seat at the moment. Yeah I like RXtacy's build. I have those wastegates too, but I was looking at recirculating them. Although, they are very useful when someone pisses me off and their windows are down so I can blow out their eardrums going WOT past them lol. Also, installing all the recirc stuff would be such a huge PITA. But I'm thinking about going with 4" exhaust all the way back but trying to make it quieter also lol.

I'm using some open tip fast reacting sensors from The Sensor Connection, but I don't remember which ones off the top of my head. They're a few inches back from the flange, but when I'm cruising on the highway, after a while they'll max out at 1900 or 2000 (I don't remember which is max), and just stay there. So I was thinking they might be too close. And occasionally they'll read pretty far off from each other. Other than that they're usually good. I'll try to resist mounting them in the DP lol.

Aren't you getting the FC ready for Deal's Gap?

I was trying to find a small enough cut out valve to use with the WG;s..... best of both worlds. But they're huge, both in length and in diameter. I never found one that would work.

Or pedestrians in Manhattan.... Full throttle through 1st pop off the rev limiter and watch people jump for cover... I'm such a dick sometimes :lol:


It is... it's horrible especially where we have our mani's placed. If we mounted them further forward and higher, it would exponentially easier

I've seen cars, my own included just get hotter and hotter and hotter the longer they cruise. For this reason I said fuck it and just ran mine @ 12.5:1 and slightly leaner in cruise. I still get close to 20 mpg too but the EGT's are much much lower after extended times cruising. If they're close to each other in temp, I'm inclined to say they they're working ok, even if you are seein EGT's that high... it's when they've always been a few degrees off and then they suddenly spike to a few hundred degrees difference that it makes me think that they are acting up.

Give the guys over at Exhaust Gas Technologies a shout, they have some really thick open tipped sensors that can withstand rotary heat.

I start getting ready for Deals Gap 11 months before its on again..... I love that show. Are you planning on making a trip out this year Eric?

Have you ever had any open tip sensors fail? how many miles have you put on them?

Sometimes? :squint: