:)The ultimate ign set up, This is the DON! :)

Here is pics of the RR COP CD system mounted up (CD boxes next to battery on custom holder), wiring harness and COP's installed.

Few Grasshoppers & bugs from extensive real world testing on the front bumper! they stand no chance at "moderate" speeds :)

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9...2cdisystem.jpg

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5373/...7cdisystem.jpg

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8...0cdisystem.jpg

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7...1cdisystem.jpg

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3...4cdisystem.jpg

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4...7cdisystem.jpg

Covered 1600km in last 2 weeks :D big boost bro! CD makes a massive difference over the HKS DLI and stock coils/leads combo.

WINNING!

See my build thread, the CD ignition rocks the box of best anal scene 2008 Charlie Sheen Goddess style yo.

:grouphug:

Much better performance
Far bigger tuning window
Much safer settings allowed by the CD

So... Just curious on what your thoughts are on these coils (they're not CDI):

http://www.034motorsport.com/ignitio...ver-p-277.html

They list ignition energy in Volts (should be in Joules).

I would want to know what ignition energy they will supply.

Ignition energy: Energy is the area under the power vs. time curve. LS2 Coils are about 120-130 mJ

The voltage is comparable to the LS2 coils (they make about 75kV).

LS2 coils are cheap. (I paid $75.00 for 4)

Off the top of my head, I see no advantage between these coils and LS2 coils other than it appears that these would take a lower dwell time (about 4 ms).

The LS2 coils like 5.5 ms. = 6 ms cycle time = 10,000 rpm max.

4 ms = 4.5 ms cycle time = 13,333 rpm max.

Obviously, CDI can rev much higher, this is it's biggest advantage over inductive.

I tested those coils back to back with my Bosch coils

They picked up 4hp when she was running pig ass nasty stank rich.

Where she was running .85-9L, they didn't pick up anything.

When she was running .75L and the where the Bosch coils where skipping, those coils picked up the ponies and didn't mis-fire

I ran those coils @ 3.5ms and had no issues. Running them with that many ms is high in the duty cycle, all that really does is overheat the coils. The LS2 coils have been known to auto-ignite and pop engines when cranking. I still plan on testing the LS2 and LS1 coils against my Bosch coils. I suspect they'll loose a little power compared to the Bosch and the QuickSilver coils that Vex mentioned

Interesting, I wish that I had heard that previously. I have had no issues to date, but I have carefully isolated the ignition circuit (both hot and signal ground go all the way back to the battery, while the coil secondary ground connection is made on the rotor housing). I wonder if the individual setting it up installed sufficient bypass capacitance...

It requires less than 1 mA to the igniter to fire the coil, so a little noise could definitely cause that.

How do you pop an engine by auto-igniting while cranking?

I wish I had talked to you before I made my decision (although I still would probably have chosen the inexpensive route). It appears that those I spoke to about LS2 coils had a much higher opinion of them than you do.

Out of curiosity, why do you think that they will make less power? The LS2 coils spec out well (not that specs mean much, but you have to go by something).

Anyway, If you want a set to test, I may be able to get you one, but I will have to talk to my buddy (who bought the other 4) as to when he will need his.

It's happening to some RX8 guys that can't adjust the dwell time.



It's a GM product, I'm obliged to have a poor opinion of them :D

LS1<LS2<LS7. As shown by numbers. LS7<Bosch<QuickSilver based on a few different totally unrelated tests. As aweful as that sounds, I know of a person that tested the LS7's vs the Bosch, and I've had the Bosch against the Quicksilvers.

The Quicksilvers are a stout coil. They light off some nasty mixes. I want to get Peters CDI kit and put them against the best of the inductives in a non water injected, lower RPM envirornment

Anyway, If you want a set to test, I may be able to get you one, but I will have to talk to my buddy (who bought the other 4) as to when he will need his.[/QUOTE]

Screw using the coil as inductor, it works heaps better as a step up transformer (CD) system.

There are stacks of DIY CD systems (youtube it) you'll see tons of video's of cunts who have made there own systems. Seems allot less trouble than frying coils using excessive charge times in the hope of initiating a suitable spark.

No doubt in my mind that CD gives a far better spark after I personally documented the on road performance improvement that also backed up the increased power recording too.

This week I will get around to scanning that Mazda article on CD ignitions V's inductive.

Please do man, I would love to read it. Especially as it's tested on a much lower hp, lower rpm, more normal street type engine. Like I said to ya earlier, in my mind it'll make a huge difference on an engine like yours - huge combustion pressure, water injected, etc etc, but an n/a, stock port, 7k redline engine.... not so much.... but that's me

Here you go Inductive lover :)

Page 1
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...1&d=1299570250

Page 2
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...1&d=1299570312

:rofl: Thanks man! I shall study tonight when I get a chance

To the OP, so far the talk has been on getting a stronger ignition for better spark output. Just curious if you have gone to the basics and tried spark plugs that required less current? Iridium plugs have a smaller electrode and conduct electricity better then most other plug materials which would result in a hotter spark with the same voltage.

I know when I switched to iridiums the difference was night and day, not only in how the car ran, but also in the life of the plugs. I ran through b10egv plugs every couple of months, and have been running the same set of iridiums for 2 years now. They were expensive initially, but have more then payed for themselves in the 2 years running them.

I don't have a great ignition system, just a twin power, 10mm wires, stock coils, and iridium plugs, but I have never had breakup and it lights my 750cc/min water injected rotary running 26 psi and 10.9:1 afr's just fine. Maybe I have some power left on the table, but that's okay the car is dangerous enough.

I have that article too as well as a few others. "Recent Technology Development of High-Powered Rotary Engine at Mazda." SAE 841017, 1984. Do you by chance of 900036, 912479, 940309, and 950454? I couldn't find those when I looked.

I'm not sure about everyone else, but I don't know if I could justify the increase in price from an HEI to a CDI for the 7.88 HP increase at 8000 RPM. For a race, shop, or similar type setup of course, but looking strictly at the numbers; that's a lot of money for a small amount of HP.

^ Have you ever actually tested your car? be it to confirm the power or the speed of the vehicle with something like a VBOX instrument?

I'd like to see some numbers from it so we can compare it.

Power is just one side.

The others are (and these are tangible effects) is firing of the plug when it is fouled (allows you to use racing heat range at all times), Ability to fire all kinds of mixtures (heavy fuel and lean fuel). Better fuel economy (I have noticed this on CD Ignition).

Just some more things to think about. Though it can be expensive, especially if you go full anal like I did :o13:

I understand what you're saying and would like to know a little bit more. When you're talking about heavy fuel and lean fuel mixture what numbers are we talking about? The coils I linked seem to be able to handle extremely rich fuel mixtures (I'm not sure about lean as TTT didn't really tell me if he tested 'em there) without issue.

When the plug is fouled do you see a decrease in performance? I would think that continually firing when the plug is carbon fouled would just result in additional fouling becoming present on the plug leading to the same effect as the HEI just later on in the plug lifetime.

MPG's; I would think would be more indicative of driving style rather than spark energy, but if you have data to support it than so be it.:Angel_anim:

So...

Budget: LS1 or LS2
Midrange: 034
$$$: CDI

?

Fixed. :willy_nilly:

You know when you petrol foul a plug, the car will misfire is bad enough at light cruise, your EGT will go up and it mostly happens on the trailing spark plug as the fuel easily gets trapped in behind the blind plug hole.

it's a catch 22 you run the right heat range for full power and if you cruise it too much or have not enough load you will foul a plug, this is mostly the reason the CD was instituted @ mazda for competition engines, anyone running a Peripheral Port will tell you that who has lived with one as a daily (I did for about 7 years) but back then was ghetto spec and could not afford SFA let alone a don mega CD set up.

On a lean fuel setting 15:1 or weaker you will see the CD will fire better and more consistently compared to Inductive, all round I say my experience is its a better system of ignition, but again like all good things it costs ca$h.

Soooooo, what are you saying? ;)

Budget = stock. LS1 coils are crap.. I wet fouled one after 15 minutes of idling after a rebuild. Haven't had a chance to test the LS2's yet. Don't think they'll compare to the QuickSilver coils though.

Just to clarify, the "034" coils aren't 034 coils. They're QuickSilver coils. QuickSilver being a division of Mercury Marine. The coils come off of their 150hp+ OptiMax outboards.. iirc....

Good info here...

Fixed

Ok, so I have an unfortunate update:

I made 185 WHP at 5,400 rpm.

Peak torque was 182 W Lb-Ft at 5,300 rpm.

The reason that I list the peak WHp at 5,400 rpm is that I lost compression on the front rotor at 5,400 rpm.

The failure is a classic spark plug boss growth failure (chips off apex seals).

There was almost no marking on the rotor at all (all grooves are still in spec) but the housing is damaged.

I will post pictures later.

The reason that I posted this here is because it appears that the housing growth issue is much worse with higher spark energy (I ran for 4 hours, about 20 runs with the factory ignition with no issues).

I think that I should try turning the pulse width down and run cooler Iridium Spark plugs as dudemaaan suggested.

I never got a chance to see what the plug would do for very high rev testing. I only got to 9,000 rpm once, blew the front rotor on the second run of the day. (first run was with 11.2:1 AFR and netted 176 WHP @ 8,800 RPM, second run was with 13.2:1 AFR).

Erm, I'm not sure how you a running LS2 coils with a CDI box as the Ls2 coils have there own built in Ignitors. I thought that this type of coil would be a total miss match on a CDI system?

Sorry Guys, scratch that last post, I misread what was written.

I didn't realize that the MSD was "replaced" with LS2 coils..

Short update:

I finally came to what appears to be a logical conclusion on the engine failure.

My first problem was that I was running an experimental 15 degree negative split on the ignition timing, second was that I had never calibrated the CAS. Unfortunately, this required the death of yet another set of apex seals to discover.

It turns out that the rattling noise that I was always hearing in second and third gear on the highway (which was really loud on the Dyno, in 4th gear) was not the transmission, but was actually preignition. I am surprised that the engine held together for 6,500 miles like that. I thought that I was running 32 degrees BTDC timing, but I was actually running 42 degrees timing leading (not really too bad) and 57 degrees BTDC timing trailing (which caused the preignition).

Other information for his thread:
F
Iridium Plugs really help, they lowered EGT, improved idle quality, and significantly improved preignition resistance.

Clean spark plugs are a must for an hard acceleration or dunno runs.

I made 1 dyno run in second gear (warmup) with the Defined Autoworks headers (which are really awesome, by the way) and put down over 230 WHp at 8,800 RPM (which reads very low, as the test was done in 2nd gear). My first 3rd gear run made 218 WHp at 6,800 RPM (which was max rpm where all faces of both rotors were operational). I was hoping to do an actual 4th gear run, which usually read about 5% higher, but chipped an apex seal on the front rotor.

I wish I could post the graphs, but the printer was down at the Dyno and I really just wanted to get home after breaking the engine again. This allowed me to catch the CAS stabbing mistake (which accounted for 10 degrees of the unintended advance), but unfortunately did not allow me to catch the negative split issue. I caught the negative split issue later when I heard the engine rattling again after the seals were replaced on the front rotor. A later tear down to replace oil seals revealed that three of 6 apex Seals were broken, but remained in the groove, allowing the engine to make compression.

Returning the trailing timing to 0 degree split and setting the leading spark advance to 34 degrees eliminated preignition for about 2,000 miles. Unfortunately, after everything got broken in and carboned up, even this configuration rattled, requiring new spark plugs (which are not cheap). NGK iridium plugs resolved this issue for about 6,000 miles so far.

When I can afford the engine blowing up, (which will probably be spring) I will try again on the dyno. (Getting dyno plots this time).

Good job, thanks for updates ;)
you will like my thread in the tech section on 13B power at one bar absolute pressure, its all turbo but in terms you understand... N/A.

I don't understand why you're having so much trouble with a non-turbo set-up...?

The "mistakes" you mention are all basically rookie mistakes that could've been easily prevented if you have made diligent checks.
Blaming stuff like "spark plug boss growth" is almost - I'm sorry to say - BDC-esque, where you're grasping at straws looking for something to blame...

Tuning the NA should be pretty quick and efficient.
Messing around with spark plug heat ranges shouldn't be that big of a deal unless you're tuning on the ragged edge of reliability?
(I thought this was a daily driver?)
The fact that you're fighting "dirty" spark plugs implies that you're still running too rich, or your spark plug heat ranges are wrong - i.e. too cold.
What's going on?


-Ted

eons ago when I fucked around with N/A Peripheral Ports, inductive ignitions were the way to solve all the hassels with firing plugs, it was straight out of the Mazda factory racing hand book, however I was a broke ass like BDC and could not afford shit so inductive it was, and had similar nightmares like this bloke. < (well boxes of spark plugs changes anyway)

Inductive is garbage, always has been on rotaries always will be.

Man Up and get a CDI system, you will long forget needing to change plugs (hot warm up) cold racing lol! one plug does ALL! and you never ever need to worry about fouling, CDI gets through ground shunts with ease, does not care about fouled plugs so it is made for very low air speed poor fuel mixing Peripheral Ports are natorious for.

Leave inductive ignitions for the rookies and ass hat tuners. :smilielol5:

Okay, I had to go back and reread this whole thread...

I can understand if we're dealing with some "exotic" ported engine, like a PP, but the OP is using a regular side-port engine?
The .sig just says "4-port NA"...
So we're not dealing with some kinda massive port with air / fuel homogeneous mixture problems, right?


-Ted

im havingn trouble with the LS2 truck coils, thinking about upgrading to IGN-1A's

Take a trip over to yellowbullet.com and do some reading on the truck coils. The domestic guys will hardly touch them.