Looking good so far man :icon_tup:

I tell ya, the first time I had to haul a motor.......... 10 years or so ago I was going to rent one. Then I came across one in the bargain news for almost as much as I was going to pay so I bought it. That thing gets used for more shit now. Not only my engine, but the engine on my boat, the diesels at the yacht club, my buddies rotary, soon his LS's, shit, we even used the damn thing to pick his shell up and get it on the rotisserie. I would just drop the coin. If you do, you won't need one, if you don't you know you will. Just saying

As for the mounts - Mazdacomp. me likey so far but I also have a torque brace on my engine so I can't tell you how stiff they are. i can tell you they don't vibrate though.

With the waste gate it's pretty straight forward. Undo the cap screws, keep track of them. Be careful of the diaphragm and inspect it for abnormal wear. Pull old spring, insert new spring. Install cap screws and torque to spec (couple in-lbs or so).

That is what i figured. I would like to get a hold of the torque specs from HKS but their customer service blows. I think 40 in lbs will do.

Does the WG need to be off the exhaust manifold? Only reason I ask is the heads of the bolts to the WG are damn near stripped and I would love to avoid another hic-up right now(laziness i know)
Thanks man.

If it's anything like the turbonetics one, then no. You should be good. When I did mine, it was brand new though so I didn't really have any issues with it at all. I don't remember the valve having to be removed or anything--which makes sense since the spring is just to help provide positive pressure on the plunger.

I'd say just do it. Honestly if you're nervous about the torque spec lube up the cap screws with some loctite and tighten it down until it bottoms out and can't be more than finger tight.

I bought the poly mounts from Himni Racing. Great products and great service.

So when I get to the removal of the counter wieght, I wonder if I should remove the rear stationary gear THEN remove the rear iron. Tell me if my thinking here is wrong, but with the rear stat gear out, removing the rear iron will allow for less chance of the rear stat gear possibly strike or nudge the engine.

Forgive me for the paranoia BUT i am freaking myself out due to all the bad joo joo that could happen if the motor shifts on me. I will have that bitch safety wired down with .040 wire around the base of the spark plugs. It shouldn't move.

I am so edgy right now because this is my LAST leg with this car. If it don't work, I am through and some one will have a new project. Kills me BUT time is non-existant and my priorities have changed since I have had this car the last 6 years.


I ordered a new water thermo sensor today since it wouldn't hurt. ALLsensors now are brand new on the motor. I also had to order a new pilot bearing seal since it was tore up when I removed the engine.

Should rip into her tonight OR tomorrow. Will have some pics of the crack up soon.

Honestly I think your worries are unfounded with pulling the stat gear. If I were in your shoes I would probably just leave it in and have persons keeping in eye on the engine while you take off the rear. If you're still unsure about it you can always pull the stat gear and go from there. I would honestly be more concerned of moving the stat gear first because you already have the eccentric shaft there to help guide it straight up. If you have everything already torqued down and not shifting I would just let the eccentric shaft and gear guide you up and out without nudging anything.

Just my thoughts though. But then again, I would just strip the entire engine down and rebuild... but you do what you gotta do.

I am gonna leave the stat gear on and will remove it after the iron is off to replace the o-ring and rear main seal.


I just can't justify a total tear down for this bull shit break. I am not gonna fork out more cash on this pig when this should be an easy BUT percise procedure. Waste of time in my opinion to rebuild unless you just want practice. I would like to do it BUT I get maybe an HOUR of free time every two days. Maybe when I get some extra leave from work.

Yeah, I understand. I'm just anal. I tore down my just rebuilt engine because I couldn't physically remember placing all the fire seals in the engine and I had one left off. Took me an hour to tear it down and rebuild after that. But if you can just pull it and look and fix what you gotta fix do it.

Removing the rear stat gear from the rear iron without being able to pound it out from the combustion arear I would thing would be pretty tough. With the block safety wired it shouldn't move and the e-shaft will keep the rotor in place. Things I would watch for are side/corner seals coming out of place, assist pieces moving around as well. Actually, I would take the rotor out VERY carefully and reglue the apex seals to make sure they don't bind and ruin a housing becuase, that would suck

I have a special tool to remove the Stat gear. However I am just gonna leave it in. As for the seals, I knew about the glue used to keep the seals in place but what is the actual name of the glue?

I start to remove the JB weld I put all over the crack tonight.......that will be fun:cuss:

It's just an anaerobic sealant. Think a loctite that lets go at a temperature higher than 300F

Good to know. I have a shit load of locktite.

I personally just used vasoline or the safeway equivalent. Just held the seals together while the engine was getting assembled. Not much trouble. For a more accurate description, check out the FSM. They tell you what number loctite to use.

I just use crazy glue. I set the calipers a couple thou wider then the housing, lock them in place, glue small piece of seal, jam against the large piece inside the caliper.

Sets them all to get broken (off the glue) when you torque down the keg, and holds them in place for a sec while the glue dries, works ducky!

Watch out for this guy............ he's a thinker.

Crazy glue is what I've used in the past. Can get the exact name for you if you like. I had to glue my RA Super seals together. I place them on my stainless work bench on top of a piece of that releaseable tin foil with the waxed edge facing up. I use an old unwarped apex seal that I lay as a guide so the assist piece and the seal are on the same plan. A dab on the assit piece and place the assist piece against the Apex seal with the old seal keeping them lined up. Then I fold the wax paper over the seal and using a second old apex seal sandwich the foil between the piece being glued and the old apex seal. Hold for thirty seconds or so, peel it off the foil and using carb cleaner remove the excess glue. Otherwise, the assist piece will break off as you try to slide it down the rotor.

Joes method is way cooler though.

Holy shit I have been busy. At this rate I won't get the damn engine in 'til mid August. I need to hustle.

Anyway, I was able to get some free time last night and "sand" off that fucking JB Weld:icon_no2:

Here is the abomination before I ripped into it
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE022.jpg


AND afterwords
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE026.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE025.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE024.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE023.jpg

I ended up rounding the edge of the rear rotor housing a little bit. Regardless I can catch my finger nail on the rear iron and rear rotor housing mating surface. It should just come off easy now.

Tomorrow I will safety wire the rear and front rotor housings tight to the exhaust studs to secure it from lifting and shifting water seals upon disassembly.

MAN that shit went everywhere when I put the dremel to it. MESSY but those sand paper flapper wheels are the bomb!

I will update soon.

Well my engine is fucked. Rear iron had no crack, O-ring by dowel was shot (crazy I know). Upon inspection I found some crazy shit. I tore engine down completely. I will post pics tonight of the "great" port jobs and part condition.

HOWEVER I am looking for some rotor housings.

You have a PM, Sean ;) We'll get ya back on the road pronto.

What? Shitacular.

Awaiting carnage pics/info....ahh the elegant dance of the rebuild :lol:

Race anyone? Joe and I are tied @ 1 each :rofl:

Sean, you have a PM again and my cell phone is in an email to you somewhere.... I can't remember which one I sent it too :scratch:

So here is the carnage from this motor.

REAR ROTOR HOUSING
As you can see this housing was fucked from the get go and should NOT have been used.
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE060.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE059.jpg

FRONT ROTOR HOUSING
In better shape then the rear but is by no means a "good" condition housing. Those valleys in the first pic and ones by the exhaust catch your finger nail easily.
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE061.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE062.jpg


REAR IRON: Was in actually great shape. No high lips from seal wear on both inner and outer tracks. the port though......
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE064.jpg
Pretty ugly IMO

And funny that this little guy was OK. I still can't believe the Dowel O-ring was bad. I tossed it or I would have had a pic up of it.
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE063.jpg

INTERMEDIATE IRON
This outer seal lip does barely catch your nail and I am unsure if anyone would re-use it?
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE065.jpg



This is the front rotor side and it has some interesting wear. Looks to be sanded down for this "outstanding" build.
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE044.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE043.jpg

Sweet ports with complimentary dremel tracks:icon_tup:
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE066.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE039.jpg

All the sweet corrision from when the motor sat static for 5 years
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE042.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE041.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE048.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE049.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE050.jpg
Good news is there is no pitting near gas seals BUT I dont know if I will use these irons.

FRONT ROTOR
Looks good and no sign of damage.
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE052.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE051.jpg

REAR ROTOR
Bearings look just as good as front rotor
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE053.jpg
....however there are two apex seal slots that have a ever so slightly "hair lip". I am unsure if this is bad but if I remeber right you just need to sand them down.?. correct me if wrong
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE058.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE054.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE057.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE055.jpg

The rest of the engine parts are in great shape. Stat gear bearings look great as well as teeth. Oil pump almost like new as well as throw out bearings in front and rear.

It is just very sad to see such poor craftsmanship from a credible shop. I know that in this case the original owner of the motor wanted the ECONOMY-BUILD but this is re-damn-diculas. I am VERY surprised there was no flaking on the rear housing. BUT in defense of this motor, the son-of-a-bitch was STRONG for being such a Frankenstein build.

I already have used S5 N/A housings on the way compliments of a friend (Thanks buddy). I am negotiating with some people on irons right now and am most likely going to have Dave Atkin port which ever ones I get. I WILL be going with the RA Super Seals. New springs all around as well. Might take a month or two to get everything BUT I AM GONNA FUCIKNG DO THIS RIGHT. No more BS and relying on other people’s poor craftsmanship and negligent maintenance practices.

Will update soon.

;) Everything looks good to me Sean. As for the corrosion on the irons, like I said earlier, as long as it's not close or weakening the gas seal area, which it clearly isn't, you should be in great shape. I would spend some time with a pic and a circular wire brush and get as much of that crap out as possible and don't forget to flush the exchangers both ways with a fair amount of pressure. My rad is still pucking crap from the first engine which, exactely the same as yours, sat static for 5 years.

As for the rotors........ I would clean everything up till no carbon remained in or around the apex seal slots and mic everything up and make sure it's withen spec. It's tough to tell from the pics but it looks like one of the slots bows out towards the end. I would be leary of that.

Which apex seals where used? The chatter marks look pretty bad.

The irons and the ports, the intermediate ports looks good.... as for the cutting tool hits...... I would take a fresh side seal, or the back of a used one and move it over in every single direction and see if it catches. If it doesn't, which I doubt it will becuase the engine has been run, I wouldn't worry tooooooooo much about them. Is it ideal? No. Liveable? Yes. The wear, well you can always get them lapped and re-nitrated. There is a member here, he has a few threads in the general tech section about his services. He'll be getting the irons that I have that are in my basement right now. Remember my comments about compression and irons......

Side seals - I would replace those along with the springs. The 86-95 seals are all the same. The S6 springs are stiffer though, or so I have been told. Makes sense as they are a different part number. & be careful clearancing them. The difference between good and no good is .1MM and I set all mine to between .05-.08mm. My tip would be to buy 14 or 15 just in case. I broke one grinding it.

Anyway, if you want to call feel free, you have my number. I need to cut a check to pay off my last rebuild :rolleyes: (my CC co HATES me! Never a balance despite the $3,700 bill this month :rofl: ) and then I'm swapping fuel tanks and pumps and filters in prep for tomorrow's dyno....... then I may just drive to PA tonight. The short is, I'll prob be up till ~midnight eastern time so don't be shy.

Good luck and keep us all updated.

-B

Judging my the rest of your car, the only thing that falls into this category is what you just pulled apart.:icon_tup:

Forgot to post FRONT IRON port.
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE046.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE045.jpg

Standard 2mm Mazda???
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE067.jpg


I am still a little reluctant if I want to use this intermediate iron. I do not want to fork out that much cash for lapping on the front and intermediate(new rear on is good just needs port). I don't know, my last motor I took apart had even a bigger lip in it and it had 105 compression all around. :leaving: I would most likely find a ported intermediate that is within spec...themn I won't have to invest the time into waiting on the lapping and cleaing the coolant jackets.

Remember my goal is August. With Family and work that is flying.:001_005:


I planned on doing new side seals. Springs too. QUESTION, what apex seal springs do I go with when I use the RA Super Seals?


Thanks man. I hope this goes well.

BTW good luck with the dyno session tomorrow. I wish for only lots of HP and very few problems. I will shoot you a line if I have any ques's.

To handle the lips on the rotors use a sharpening stone. and gently file it down until the proper contour is made. Also continually inspect and check the fitment of the proper Apex seal.

Took some more photos of the questionable REAR rotor apex seal grooves.

Here are all six..
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE070.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE076.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE073.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE072.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE074.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE075.jpg

I cant find a spec in the FSM, All i can find is clearance between Apex seal and rotor apex seal slot.

Some light filing on the tips should clean them up... its hard to tell the gap though. You can always get it milled to 3m if you're not sure...

Those are Rotary aviation seals by the looks of the assist/small piece.

The OEM's have a very very tiny part of the assist section that actually touches the housing, like .009. Those are much bigger

That would explain the chatter anyways.

Sorry to hear about the findings

Personally I'd stay away from the aviation stuff - it'll tear up your housings. But to each his own :)

EDIT2: Also, if you look at the wear line on the top apex seal, you can see how it heads down the seal in a few areas. Not good - either mill or replace those rotors. Even the two bottom seals - which have mostly STRAIGHT wear - are down pretty far on the beam. The wear should be a *little* higher on the seal in a perfect engine. However save for the seal on top with the jagged wear, the other two are liveable.

I already bought RA Super Seals. So far all I have heard is good things to include wear on housings as long as you PREMIX.

What do you think about the rear rotor slot Classic?

Premix shouldn't really matter a whole lot. Take a look at the oil thread in general rotary. There's interesting data in there.

Premix will make a big difference in the wear characteristics on the entire engine. I'm premixing in my tank (even though I FUCKING HATE IT WITH AN UNEQUIVICABLE PASSION) as well as using my RA adapter and 2 stroke tank. Basically I'll be running about 256:1 in the tank constantly and the OMP will inject the rest.

I've heard some ridiculous stories and and been a part of two myself, I'll tell you what I think about my super seals when I see them in a few days.

I haven't slept in 40 hours so I'm a little loopy but they look like the old style of aviation seals.

They were associated with chatter marks, HOWEVER, so are other things. I found out today actually that something to really look into would be the correct counterweights/rotor weights used.


Yeah I hear ya on the cash and the timeframe but remember (generally) Rushing takes longer and cheap costs more in the long run.



Rotary Aviation Race Springs. I believe they are $72/set


Take your time and I'm sure it will... as for the dyno, we didn't even get passed the pre-dyno compression test :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: Details in my thread so as not to jack yours. Shoot me a line if you have some questions and you also have a PM.

So I got a hold of a Dial Indicator and took some measurements on both my front and intermediate irons.

I was worried about my intermediate and actually have a 40K one on standby waiting to buy.

Here are the pics with measurements.


FRONT IRON
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE077.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE080.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE079.jpg



GOOD SIDE OF INTERMEDIATE IRON
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE078.jpg

Questionalble side of INTERMEDIATE
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE081.jpg

most of the lips are .001''
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE082.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE084.jpg
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE085.jpg

This lip was wierd...actual wear line measured less then .001'' BUT then gradually went up until .003'' goings towards the water jackets.
http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/w.../GARAGE083.jpg
Not to mention it looks like they were sanded down and the overall rotational pattern looks out of place??


I also measured my rotor apex seal grooves with a V Caliper.

Front rotor Apex seal spaces(all 6) above corner seal area measured: 2.02 -2.04 mm

Rear rotor and the questionable one measured on one side: 2.04-2.05mm AND the other side......: 2.15-2.18mm

Bad rear rotor, FUCK! Add that to the list.

DAMN they are out of stock!

Uh oh, I may need a set too.

What rotor are you in need of?