But not too blue - I have dibs on the IBM, half the car is already in that color :P

The temps needed for that vile powdery shit are a complete catch 22. 50*F AIT's but the tires never get hot enough..... can't win either way.

I LOVE your color Sean, but I dunno about a blue FD. It's already MOSTLY Montego Blue :rofl: Honestly I was thinking either Black or Ferrari Grigio Mettalic

http://i.ebayimg.com/09/!!fDh+Tw!mE~...Eb)bF!~~_4.JPG

http://www.motortrak.co.uk/images/4x...C000168655.jpg

:lol: Multicolor PJ cars FTW.... First order of business with the FD is to rotisserie her and get her into primer.

Actually first order of business is a 28 hr road trip to pick her up

Blue is nice, I am a blue man.

blue mnmmm BUT Grigio is sweet(last FD)

^mmmm... Blue looks nice on FDs, don't see that very often (I don't know if it's just me, but Montego Blue looks more green than blue to me)

Yup - we did it!
 

'nuff said. Highest seen today was 404.56RWHP & 323 ft/lbs of torque. We're pleased. Not for nothing but this car has recorded 83 dyno pulls...... Going back next week for more and to dial in the sequentials. Found another SLIGHT problem with the fuel pump in the wiring...... yes, Dave is a genius & it seems that everything compounded itself to lead to this fuel system debouchery. Details to follow later. I have one thing to fix, slapping some race tires on and going to bed.

There's also this vid...watch it under my channel, the quality is much better for some reason.... I'm a bit of a YouTube newb.... http://www.youtube.com/user/0PSTNS#p/a/u/0/PFOuQn2fPMo
need to do something about the wind noise. I should have some auto-x vid's up tomorrow as well

:hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray:
:hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray:

thats awesome. sounds sweet too

Nice job man!!Impressive how many pulls you have done. Supporting Dave's alimony I imagine:D( Don't know if he has any, just sayin!)

congrats!!!

damn, so 80 dyno pulls at around $100 per hour... assuming we're talking around a 1pull/ hour average here, that's around $8,000!

:D Your turn next pal

Me loves my Magnaflows

Thanks


We did 17 pulls that day alone. My car doesn't build heat quickly at all. After 5 strait pulls in a 20 - 30 minute back to back raping, my oil temps were ~160, coolant @ 185* after the pull and coming down to 180* before the next, AIT's started the day @ 55* and never got above 77*. My car kicks ass :rofl:

Negative, no where near that. Dave's pricing structure is no where near greedy like alot of the other shops around. Factoring in the $60+ worth of gas I need to get there and back.... not to mention we use between 1/8 and a 1/4 tank ON the dyno, it's still way cheaper than going at it local. Dave is just a hell of a guy in generaland bills what he thinks is fair. His tuning/dyno is not billed on an hourly basis and that's all I'm going to say. Dollars in vs his expertise, time and everything else, it's honestly worth a drive from hundreds of miles away, a hotel room if needed, and maybe an internal organ to go see him. That may be why his que is pretty busy and he has clients that cross more than 6 state borders sometimes. I literally could go on for hours about him..... in fact, see below.

So yeah, onto more fuel related bullshit on the dyno.... it literally never ends.

So.... Get to Dave's saturday morning and get the car all strapped down and we start making pulls probably around 12:30 ish. Made 15 pulls over the course of like 3 hours before she started going lean again in the higher revs......... no I'm not shitting you. Look at FPSI and it's falling off again but by only 25% as much as before. Ok, new filter, new pump, new sock, lines are clean, tanks clean, Dave looks at me and says, "No offense to you, but it's you're wiring. It HAS to be. Can we get to it easy?" "Yeah, I need a phillips, a 5m Allen and 3 minutes."

4 minutes later we're holding the wiring and the relay in our hands and they're warm to the touch, not good, showing ~12V with the car running, even worse. I've got, err HAD the wiring as follows. 10GA from a breakered powerpost to a breaker, to the relay dropping down to the factory wiring into the pump. The wires in the pump being new. The ground was just runto the neared nutsert where I pulled power for the stereo as well. Upon REALLY close examination we found that there was a slight bit of corrosion on the eyelets and the relay contact itself was getting burned slightly. Dave explained to me that the way he wires pumps is to send a constant hot to the pump, and trigger the ground. This stops the sparking that occurs when the relay closes. He also runs the ground directly back to the battery to greatly reduce any chance of corrosion or resistance.

So, that's what we did. After about an hour or so or cranking away we were getting 13.9V to the pump........... Dave is again, proving himself to be the man.

I've got a little bit of re-wiring to do to clean up what we just didn't have the time to do. I've got a comandment that I live by when wiring. With regards to the battery, Thou shall not use more than one wire per terminal on the battery. I've got two seperate powerposts hidden under the storage bins. So over the next two days I need to strip out the seats, the stereo, a good portion of the interior panels on the drivers side, the bins and even the fiberglass deck to run the ground wire a little more neatly.

Then it's back to Dave's on Thursday or Friday to FINALLY play with the sequentials. We we're hoping to get to those on Saturday, and probably could've if we didn't run into this little problem. Oh well, it would've been nice too to have that extra power down low for this



Shaved 4 seconds off a prior run and whopped up on some STI's as well :D I was happy

Looked like you had great traction!

Slight understeer in some corners and you could feel the tires just trying to grab and hop. Was running old Toyo RA1's on a chilly day. They never got to 90*F surface temp and they need alot more heat than that. Also had the boost turned down as well to help keep traction.

I need some dedicated auto-x tires for next year. I'm thinking A6's or V710's. 255F 275R :D

So after all this it was the wiring to the pump? I typically wire things the way Dave mentioned so hopefully I'll be good when that time comes.

Do you run any class w/ auto-x or just fun runs? Kind of hard to place your car in NASA, lol...

Oh no, the wiring was just the last thing. The filters were definately clogged. You could pour gas into them and nothing would come out. After cleaning them they would flow fine (when I was using the Marren washable Stainless) and I replaced the pump @ DGRR '09 and still had the problem ( a little less but it was still there and the oldf RP sounded like a dying cat), it wasn't until I replaced the filter that it went away.

The Cosmo pump was definately weak, Amp tests confirmed that AND when the pressure started falling off on Sat it only fell off 1/4 of what it did.

So LITERALLY EVERY section of the fuel system from the the cap on the fender to the return line has either been replaced or cleaned or re-wired.

I told Dave back in April that we'd get this car done just in time for me to take her apart for the winter. I was dead on accurate on that :banghead:

There are two Auto-x clubs in CT that I belong to. One puts me in SMA or Street Mod All and when I went to the second I didn't want to be in that class as it was populated entirely by STI's & Evo's completely decked out running race tires. So when I registered at the second one the conversation went like this

What car
'88 RX7
What have you done to it?
alot
like
like alot
sounds like CSP to me
ok
:rofl:

So that's what I compete in as well as the rookie class. Generally you run rookie till you win it. Seeing as how I made it to less than 10% of the events this year, I'll be back in rookie next year with a shot at winning it.

I told you to check the voltage at the pump. Glad you got it figured out, and can finally get to run it sequential, I'm really interested in seeing what it can do.

Your car is contagious, Im having a similar problem you had. I went to the track on Friday and it started misfiring, did a datalog and found out I was hitting 12.9-13.0 afr in boost. :banghead:

I just watched your autox vid, lol... "YEA" I love that reaction... car looks like a monster though I love it. It gives me a pit in my stomach though knowing how much farther I have to go on mine :( Ah well, it'll be worth it....

Finally. Sounds like you might want to upgrade that relay to something with contacts rated for a little more amperage. Something with a magnetic blow out would be nice but probably overkill.

Btw since you have a thirst for knowledge like me, the contacts arc more when they break instead of make since it will pull an arc across the air gap. Air is a semi-conductor.

I did check the voltage at the pump. The issue was though, and this is why it was so fricken hard to find, is that it was only doing it on the dyno. On the dyno we're asking it to pump out 55+psi for hours on end. What was happening was the wiring was getting warm to the touch. When I was checking voltages at home it was 1/2 a volt low. On the dyno, after constant abuse, when the wiring was warm, she was showing much lower than that.

OUCH! That's not horribly lean though. As long as you weren't making massive amounts of boost everything should be just fine. What's she doing?

:rofl: Yeah, everyone seems to mock me a little for that reaction. I shaved 4 seconds of my previous time and beat up on about 1/2 the 400+AWD cars there so I was REALLY happy with that run.
Over the winter I need to get 4 things squared away -

1) a set of dedicated race rims/tires. Looking @ RPF01 in a 17x8.5+30 with a 255/40/17 V710 and a 17x9.5 +40 with a 275/40/17 V710. That should get me some more traction.

2) Also going to do traction control as well. I found that in the higher gears I'm actually running faster. I believe becuase I'm not losing as much traction. BUT, it's a little harder to drive at the limit. I know I can get faster times. I checked the datalogs and I hit 100% throttle position ONCE! What I would love to be able to do is get the sequentials set up and be able to come out of a turn in 2nd gear and just MASH the pedal and let the MoTeC keep the ass where she should be for the most part.

3) Also on that traction control issue is a feature in the MoTeC that allows you to mash the pedal and it will stutter the igntion at the RPM where the next LOWEST gear is. So, if I'm coming into a turn, clutch in, heel-toe, as soon as the ignition stutters I know that the tranny will slide right into gear. Yes the Motec is badass!

4) 6-spd needs to be finished. The ratios in the Type R box BLOW for for auto-x. Losing a lot of torquw when shifting into 2nd. The 6-spd will tighten everything up just enough, or so I believe based on the math. I'll be able to shift into 2nd and be above 4500 rpms.

The one in there now is rated for 40A. That should be enough. Pump is only pulling ~12A

Interesting. So when the relay is run to trigger the hot, she'll arc twice, but only once when triggering the hot?

BTW Scott, any other meets before the snow starts flying? I think she's coming off the road the weekend after turkey day

So the issue went from big to small eh. Its always the small shit in the end.... Kinda like my car not running still because I don't want to drive out to Mazda Heaven just to cut the lower frame rail out of the passenger side of one of their junkyard FCs for the subframe studs. (I'm forcing myself to this weekend since my barber is ALMOST on that side of town)

longest thread on the site?

Yup. pretty much. Just worked my way backwards in terms of the fuel system. There is literally NOTHING that hasn't been replaced or cleaned at this point. Not to mention that I'm still using my buddies borrowed tank. Over the winter I need to buy a new S5 tank and straps. I've got an S5 cartridge that I'll modify for my -6 lines. I need to make a list and start a new thread after she goes into hibernation - TitaniumTT's see you @ DGRRX

I think it is. Is there anyway to check without going into each and every individual subforum? Right now this thread stands at 623 replies and 10,192 views....... damn

I has found you Brian get ready for rapeshower!

they have the site statistics set so we can freely view it.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Good to see ya Tyler, car look awesome btw:icon_tup:

Cum :suspect: to DGRRX damnit

Funny thing about the wiring Brian. I actually had an issue with bad mid-range hesitations back when I wired my pump hot striaght to the battery and a toggle switch(still have it AND I KNOW, BIG TIME SAFETY ISSUE IF IN A ROLL OVER, need to wire to main relay). Anyway, I was in a hurry when installing it back 3 years ago and ended up using a small 1' section of 14 gauge to connect from the battery "hot" 10 gauge to the pumps power lead. Went and slightly moved the pump wires when the FC was running and the damn thing was hot as hell and caused a big drop in fuel pressure every time i wiggled it.

Replaced with all 10 gauge wire and problem fixed. I really need to get that wiring relayed, worries me that I am setting my self up for death if God forbid an accident happens.

I want to have to figure out dates but we'll see what i can put together.

We'll be able to run a rape shower train this year if you show up...... of course we need Chris to show up again. I know Bawb is coming and I'm sure he'll be bringing the homebrew mead again. Oh the fun we can have :rofl:

That's kinda frightening a little, althoug the way you have it wired, it really doesn't matter right? In the Motec I have it set to shut the relay down 2 seconds after the engine dies. If you turn the key it will instantly fall off off. Sean, if I'm reading this right, you toggle the switch everytime you start and stop the car?

Yeah I toggle it. I had it like that originally to prevent flooding with the OEM ECU and injectors.

Gotcha. I actually have a 3 position toggle switch set up on mine as well. On - controlled by the Motec, Off - so I can depressureize it if need be, and On - connected to grnd so I can prime the fuel system, check for leaks. I think what I'm going to do over the winter is either move it to the the rear hatch area where it can't be messed with, or put one of those Air Craft stle safety switch covers over it. I had a bad feeling about it tripping or a passenger hitting it while driving.

Someone actually did that with the starter toggle that I had all set up back in the day. Engaged the starter while on the highway - Hey, what's this switch do? Dumbass

lol that had to sound great. Yeah tha toggle has come in handy to depressurize the system and leak checks too.

/\ Shit... my sister just messed up my dad's truck in a simmilar way... took all the teeth off the flywheel and the starter... guess who has to fix the damn thing now?

I'm glad you finally got the car sorted, more or less. It's amazing, but even with a build like this, people still run into irratating snags along the way, like how I'm doing right now with my build! :D

:lol: yeah, I made some asshole comment like it sounds exactely like what his teeth would sound like crushing against a steel pipe if he ever did that again.

My MoTeC guy and I had an interesting conversation about the toggle when we were trying to troublshoot why the damn thing would never turn off when I first wired it. I tried to explain why I liked having it, to pressure check it, to prime it, to let the engine turn over for a few seconds without the pump going to get a little heat in the plugs etc etc etc. He had an answer for everything - cycle the key three times, input a negative value in the relay (although the output for the FP also activates the IGN as well so that wouldn't work) He had no easy solution to the depressurizing though. Over the winter I'm going to move the toggle to the rear of the car under an aircraft style saftey switch. Harder to get at, which isn't a bad thing. I'd hate to see the damn thing accidentaly flipped while driving. That could easily chip a seal or at worst pop an engine. Although Dave whitnesses a 13B race car pop a fuel pump fuse on the dyno at full boost. He described the noises it made, I cringed, he said they fixed the short and the thing fired right up and ran fine. No damage. Pretty much the story that sold me on the RA Super Seals.

OUCH! How does that happen in a car with a key'ed ignition? :rofl: Every time one of my dumbass brothers does something like that, I'm always the one that has to fix it as well...

The little things never seem to end. I still have a short list of things that I want to fix as well. Oh well. Projects like ours are never done. It's a fact that I've come to accept.

The IAC was busted... i told her to rev the engine cause it dies when it's cold on the truck. She cranked it, held the key in the start position, and THEN revved it.... which made on hell of a nice "crunch"! :rofl:

Owie..... oh well

Alrighty Gents - I'm offto an impromtu dyno session. I'll have my camera and should have my laptop up and running this evening so I can finally hopefully, God willing, post some dyno charts and datalogs

Alright, well, I guess I better update this.

Finally had a clean dyno session. No fuel pressure problems at all. Started off by running on WG and fartin' around with the various valves and solenoids. For those of you not familiar with the Sequentials, here's a rundown of whats involved.

Turbo Control Valve - TCV located in the exhaust Mani - allows the full exhaust of the rear rotor into the 2ndary turbo
Charge Control Valve - CCV - Located after the 2ndaries compressor to keep the primary from backspooling the 2ndary
Charge Relief Valve - CRV - Vents the 2ndaries boost until it's ready to come online.
Pre-Spool Valve - PSV - works like a wastegate to send exhaust energy to the 2ndary to start spooling it up.

First thing I did was take my spare 2Bar MAP sensor and instal it after the 2ndary compressor and before the CCV so we could log what boost the 2ndary was producing. The only problem is that becuase of a slight pressure drop and us eventually running 14 lbs, I kept "overrunning" that MAP sensor and throwing an error, Oh well, just had to reset the errors between pulls. Started off with the transition occuring @3800 RPM's We made about 20 pulls on Tuesday and got the transition down to almost nothing - .15-.25s of nothing. On the street it feels interesting. Response is instant. The car just wants to take off! I was running ~55 on the highway, ~2700 rpms, blip the throttle to pass someone on the right and BAM! 15lbs of boost and the car just takes off. I'm making 250ft'/lbs by ~3200 rpms and I bet that would be lower. Dave was launching @ 3k on the dyno. In other words, the car goes from vac to 15lbs in ~200-400 RPM! From one log
Time = 5:07.448
TP = 40%
MAP = 90kpa
RPM = 2867
Time = 5:08.583
TP = 100%
MAP = 175kpa
RPM = 3226

So in the time of 1.13 seconds I gained over "12psi" (quoted becuase some of that is vac) in ~350 RPM's. Boost falls a little as the PSV opens to spin the 2ndary, the transistion is a blip and then hold on, torque just takes off.

Since the dyno I've moved the transition to 4000 and started messing around with the valves a little. In the discussions before we even started, Dave and I both came to the realization that the roller is going to slow everything down to the point where it would need to be dialed in on the street. It was great however to get the fuel map dialed in which was almost spot on. Even though we were venturing into areas of the map where we've never been before, our math and logic was almost spot on. A good feeling actually.

So we played with the CCV, opening it earlier or later proved to make the biggest difference in the reponse. We would either get a HUGE surge in torque, which just felt odd, or a slight dip during the transistion and then boost built again. This is what we opted for. After 21 runs (and 101 runs total) it seemed like we were chasing our tails and not getting anywhere, so we decided to call it for the night and head back after some street tuning.

What I discovered on the street was a little dissappointing at first. The dyno puts such a load on the engine that it would actually spool the primary faster. So while on the dyno we were seeing 11+lbs of boost, on the street, in the lower gears, I was seeing about half that. Easy fix, reduce the duty of the PSV becuase it works basically like a WG and viola, 12-15lbs on the primary.

I also incorporated something else that was pretty interesting, WG duty = TP vs RPM. So the more I open the throttle, the more the WG solenoid increases the boost. That made the single biggest difference in the way the car drives. She's MUCH less twitchy on me which is really nice. Much more driveable. She feels like a high-strung V8. No problems rolling through stop signs in high gears and 2k RPMs. Not at all like the previous rotaries that I have driven, this one is DRIVABLE :lol:

So the weather is not cooperating with me tonight or I would be out there tonight testing my new idea of surging the 2ndary a little more by PWM'ing the CRV to build more boost in the 2ndary and lessening the transition dip.

Something to try out tomorrow night if the weather, and Alex cooperate. We're heading North to go pick up his LS1.

So there it is, the car is done, and in 10 days or so she'll be stripped down and tossed on a rotisserie :rofl: Just like I predicted in May.... Oh well.

FWIW though, I am glad I stuck with it despite what everyone said on the evil forum about the twins. They were all wrong, with the exceptions of a few who understood why two smaller turbo's > one large single.

I need to find some GT35R dyno sheets - what everyone told me to do, and compare them to mine and post them up. Show me one single that makes 250ft/lbs by 3200RPM's

What looks like the NICEST GT35R dyno sheet that I can find

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1258675163


What Dave did. I checked the logs and the last run, run 101 :rofl: was about 14lbs falling off to about 13 :o16:
http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...1&d=1258675163

So @ 3200 RPM, I'm making TWICE the torque of a T3 GT35R with an equal length runner mani :D

By ~46-4700 RPM, the GT35R has caught up. At the end of the run the GT35R is making 25hp more (than my best 405 run with more boost, we never got back into the high 70% duties that we were running before, instead we stopped at 64 - it was after 6 o'clock.) and only ~15ft/lbs more than my best. I like my twins. That is all.

Someday our cars will meet and they will fornicate, hopefully producing smaller, yet more powerful offspring.

My car with be the giver not the pillow biter.