Ferarri V-12 Swap ideas, not a pipe dream.

[Max777]

So, I was thinking of good piston engines, and how a lot of people consider putting a "run of the mill" piston engine into the RX-7 as a disgrace.

Well, have I got a swap for you guys! It's a fact that a lot of rich people buy Ferrari cars. It's also a fact that a lot of the said rich people don't know how to drive, and therefore total the said Ferrari cars. This means that, while probably still quite expensive, and unobtanium for the average Joe, there are Good used Ferrari engines out there, specifically late model V-12 engines, some even come in a FR layout with a manual transmission.

Now, if one could legally get their hands on this setup, and if it fit in the FC3S at all, while still allowing room for a radiator, and other aux components, I feel like it would be one hell of a swap!

You could run the engine with a good standalone computer, ala MOTEC, fabricate custom exhaust if needed, get a custom drive shaft, engine mounts, and do a few other things, and bam, you have the only Ferrari powered Rx-7 in the world! :D

Now, in reality, this might not end up being as easy, right? (Barring getting an engine in the first place of course)

[RETed]

I would think those kinds of engines would be in high demands...from Ferrari enthusiasts.
If you could wrestle one away, by all means, go for it.
The sound of the signing V12 is just euphoric.

Just the other day, I was tinkering with the idea of trying to fit a V10...probably BMW, since these come in 750's / 850's and a little easier to probably get?
All those BMW V10's noises I hear from Top Gear got me thinking...
hmmmmmm


-Ted

[TitaniumTT]

All the same concerns would have to be addressed as with any engine swap. Be it an LS, a boxer engine, a 13B-RE, or a Ferarri engine. Personally though......

However - I'm making more crank HP than some Ferarri engines so from a power perspective, not worth it. I'm not aware of any aftermarket companies making performance internals.

EVERYTHING would have to be fabricated because like you said, it's never been done before.

My biggest concern lies in the intake though. Most Ferarri engines are dry sumped and the intakes are monterous and tall. I think too tall for the FC.

[djmtsu]

If a guy can fit a Jaguar V12 into a Miata, anything is possible.

http://jalopnik.com/398671/miata-owner-gets-bored-swaps-in-jaguar-v12

A BMW V10 would be awesome except for one thing. They are fairly new, and VERY expensive. The older 750/850's had V12 engines that ran individual computers for the left and right side of the engine. Talk about a PITA to make work properly. Compound that with the fact that the engines are pretty damn wide.

For reference, this is one in a box Caprice. Fills it out completely.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3113/3161465454_5842dd7253.jpg

[RETed]

A BMW V10 would be awesome except for one thing. They are fairly new, and VERY expensive. The older 750/850's had V12 engines that ran individual computers for the left and right side of the engine. Talk about a PITA to make work properly. Compound that with the fact that the engines are pretty damn wide.


Oops, brain fart.
You're right - 750's, 850's are V12's.
BMW V10's available in late model M5's and M6's - yack.


-Ted

[Herblenny]

Only thing about going with Euro engine is cost to service them (parts).. Well, at least that's what I hear... .and reason why most consider LS as its fairly cheap to obtain and get parts for.. Also fairly light.

I've also seen VERY nice LS1 FDs for only 18K.. Price has come down quite a bit.

[djmtsu]

I've also seen VERY nice LS1 FDs for only 18K.. Price has come down quite a bit.

That is funny, because I would pay LESS for an LS1 FD than a stock FD.

Euro parts are not any more expensive than Honda, Toyota or Mazda parts. It is the labor from having to go to a 'specialist' for repairs.

*NEWS FLASH* It is just a fucking engine. Piston engines are all pretty much the same, plus or minus cylinders.

[Phoenix7]

That is funny, because I would pay LESS for an LS1 FD than a stock FD.

Euro parts are not any more expensive than Honda, Toyota or Mazda parts. It is the labor from having to go to a 'specialist' for repairs.

*NEWS FLASH* It is just a fucking engine. Piston engines are all pretty much the same, plus or minus cylinders.+1 someone's project isn't as appealing, let alone with 0 rotary. if it goes up and down then it's like the other 99% of engines out there, only COOL thing is the NAME slapped on the block.

Older BMW parts are cheap so If you get an older engine you'd be ok, i guess. Nothing is ever ok with Ferrari....they hand make those engines....don't think the aftermarket sector is good for them....unless you like carbon fiber cupholders or cf aviator glasses or something fancy like that.

[djmtsu]

I have a Ferrari necktie.

Fail

[Max777]

The purpose of me posting this was NOT to talk about aftermarket potential, NOT about V12 vs LSx, and NOT for people to say that "it's not worth it"


Come on guys, I know all this already, what it takes, the consequences, the parts availability, etc etc etc. I just wanted to talk cars with people...


It is just an engine. Piston engines are all pretty much the same, plus or minus cylinders.

Well.... not really. how is a boxer flat 6 engine similar to a Chevy 350ci V-8 OTHER than both having similar pistons? The block is different, the heads are different, the "tuning" knowledge you need for both is WAY different. I love my 13B, but I also hold respect for certain piston powered engines, such as the K20A Honda engine, the Porsche/ Subaru boxer engines, the 2JZGTTE toyota supra engine, any V12 because its bad ass, and Ferrari V-8's because of how lovely they sound. A lot of piston engines are not all that great, but please remember that a 1.9L 4 cyl that came in the ford escort is nowhere in the same league as a Honda VTEC or Toyota 20Valve 4AGE, for example.

[djmtsu]

Never said they are in the same league, however:

They all squish, bang, and blow.

If you know how an engine works on a mechanical level, then it is no harder to work on than any other car.

I have had a 1.9L Escort and a 2.2L VTEC. Not as different as you think.

[Max777]

Lol DJ, so a wankel doesn't? It's still an internal cobustion engine.

[NoDOHC]

For my 2 cents I would say that an engine is an engine. What is cool for me is getting power out of that engine. Some engines make more specific power from the factory than others, but all engines can be modified. I can assure you that a guy with a machine shop and some know-how could make the 1.9 L escort stomp all over a stock 2.2 VTEC Honda.

Than someone could build the Honda engine, than the 1.9L gets a turbo... You get the idea.

What makes this swap cool is that it has not been done before. I have seen just about every Small block Chevy and Small block Ford in existence strapped into an RX7, but I have never seen a Ferrari V12 in person in anything. Therefore I would consider this a cool swap.

I heard of a guy converting an RX7 to rear engine and using a B20 Honda engine and transaxle mounted transversely. Do I think this was a good use of his time? No, considering that he took an engine that would make 200 WHp pretty easily out and replaced it with an engine that requires significant effort to make 200 flywheel Hp, plus the chassis was pretty badly compromised and the weight bias was destroyed. He did get unique points from me though.

There are some swaps that are just dumb, like putting a G10 (1.0L Geo Metro engine making 55HP) in an RX7. The Ferrari V12 swap has merit, because the car would still have class, character and poise, while obtaining a level of uniqueness that it didn't previously have.

[My5ABaby]

There are some swaps that are just dumb, like putting a G10 (1.0L Geo Metro engine making 55HP) in an RX7.
You'll rue the day you said that when gas goes to $5.00/gal and the G10 is getting 40mpg! :rofl:


Really though, setting your car on fire would be a better option than a G10.

[NoDOHC]

You'll rue the day you said that when gas goes to $5.00/gal and the G10 is getting 40mpg!


Really though, setting your car on fire would be a better option than a G10.


Actually I wouldn't care at all, I have the G10 right where it belongs, in the Metro.

(It actually get around 55 mpg).

This is an old joke, because when the rotary in my '86 gave up the ghost, my friends were all talking about how at least the Metro ran, which made it way faster than the Mazda. This led to all sorts of 1.0L RX7 jokes, none of which seemed to care than my Metro had barely 100,000 miles on it and my '86 Mazda had almost 200,000 miles on it.
The fact that the '91 still ran fine and had 140,000 on it was also ignored, even when I brought it up.

[Teenwolf1393]

putting a ferrari v8 in a 7 would cost more than a 20b. so i can only imagine how much the v12 would be to get put in.

unique idea but really not feasible unless you had a good bit of money to burn, and even then it might not turn out like you expect, and your out a big chunk of change.

[EJayCe996]

Another thing about getting those engines is when they did a documentary on the Ferrari Facility, they mentioned the fact that Ferrari takes back a lot of the engines from wrecked Ferraris (and even the chassis if the owner wants Ferrari to build them the same car, regardless of how old it is, to destroy it completely so the amount produced of a particular model stays the same but the build number will say 501 when only 500 were produced) and melt all the various metals down to be used again for various Ferrari parts.

[djmtsu]

OK, in sticking to the original theme of the thread.

Yes, you can put a Ferrari V12 in an FC, or any other RX-7. Anything is possible if money is not an option.

If Ferrari does in fact make an effort to recover all the engines out of wrecked cars and what not, then buy a Ferrari just to get the engine and management system, part out the rest. You might even get 80% of your money back.

Your best bet for that option is to get a 550 Maranello. Already set up for front engine, rear drive. So there is your transmission solution as well. I know a guy in Batavia, IL who has one, I can ask him if he wants to sell it to you Max. Its blue. He has even been brave and drives it in the winter.

[Rotary Inspired]

I would research the Ferrari engine. The service on them is not for the faint of heart and it will make you think the 20B is cheap. The 355's required the engine (V8) removed to change the belts, and they have to be done less than every 30,000. I was reading a thread on one of the board where a Ferrari owner took is F40 in to be serviced and the belts (i am not talking power steering and A/C belts) were improperly installed. The motor was ruined and it only cost him $75,000. Good deal huh? I would build a great single turbo 13b and enjoy it. Good luck.

[TitaniumTT]

Zakspeed, Cosworth..... mmmmmmmm

[Max777]

Ok, well if the factory recovery thing is true, then how about ideas for other brands of a v12 that would still be worth while to install, but more feasible?

I know BMW made a few.... As far as the maranello goes, that's exactly what I was thinking about, however I would need a totalled one, no point in ripping apart a car that is perfectly fine, that would be blasphemy! haha

EDIT: I was doing some research, and found this model ferarri engine, all that detail, and it has a Fram oil filter, FAIL!

http://www.legacydiecast.com/xq/asp/id.GMP0604103/qx/review.htm

[Jeezus]

You can get a 360 Modena engine for about 15k...

[djmtsu]

Ok, well if the factory recovery thing is true, then how about ideas for other brands of a v12 that would still be worth while to install, but more feasible?

I know BMW made a few....

See my above post. :)

[Max777]

You can get a 360 Modena engine for about 15k...

15K? See, that's somewhat the price I thought it would be, around the same as a carbon ceramic brake rotor upgrade for a modena :D

[goracer]

I thought about an Astin Martin V12 but those companies will not support you in any way. You will have to find an independant mechanic or learn how to work on it yourself and they may not sell you parts since it's not going in to the original car.

A Jaguar V12 makes more sense since it's owned by Ford, but it's not known for reliability.

[Whizbang]

what about those mazerati bi turbo engines?