Remain true to original or upgrade?

[parrotfever]

Replace rear rotor parts?
Upgrade NA engine & rebuild?
Upgrade to Turbo?



As in all losses, first comes denial, then rage, then acceptance, followed by resolution. The rear rotor and housing on my '89 NA vert are history. I can't decide whether I should just replace parts or upgrade to turbo as I see so many have done.

The pros are obvious. The cons:
Emissions regs in New Jersey - would I pass inspection?
Finances - any ballparks out there?
NA upgrades for a middle ground - any suggestions?

I think I know the answer I'm going to get in advance, but figured a poll was the only way to go. I'm guessing I'm at a differant stage - 3 college age kids has a way of killing the finances, but please help me decide which way to go...better yet, can someone teach me how to set up a poll? (:) :grouphug:

[Phoenix7]

If you really want to stay within a tight budget stay NA. You can get ~170hp in an NA and that's not too slow. If you join Mazdaspeed you can get a discount on rebuild kits. cheapest way is to join NASA autosports ($45) and then send your info to Mazda to set up your account.

I don't know how much it costs for the kit though....

What's your ultimate goal? handling? power? balanced? Been driving a vert for a couple of days and I am loving it...I will one day have a TII vert.

[RETed]

If you're questioning this already, I would dump the car.
A true enthusiasts would have already answered this question from day one without asking others what they think.

I would not recommend a turbo conversion.
Parts are hard to come by, and projects like this tend to suck up a lot of money that was never budgeted in the first place.
Basically, if money is tight, you're asking for trouble.


-Ted

[Phoenix7]

fix and port it then enjoy.

[djmtsu]

Small port
Full RB exhaust system
Intake
new shifter bushings and short throw shifter
RB suspension package
Rtek ECU upgrade

Do it!

[Turbo II]

dj has the plan, which is what I would do if and when my motor finally lets go. But it sure would be nice to have a turbovert!

[Whizbang]

i agree with ReTED since all the options require a degree of interdependence to complete. If it were me though, i would go turbo. Having owned a turbo II and a vert (at the same time...) I would say that combining the two would be great.

[Turbo II]

See that's my problem, I have both. The concept of a turbovert just makes me grin. I don't need to grin.

[Phoenix7]

consolidate!

[need RX7]

Stay n/a... but with an extra rotor :suspect:

[NoDOHC]

Seriously, a budget rebuild is going to cost you somewhere around $400.00 if you do all the work yourself and get a decent rotor and a decent rotor housing off eBay. You can put inserts in the 6 PI sleeves, smooth the ports up, clean the lower and upper intake manifold up (as high as you can reach) and get 170-180 WHp out of that engine (I don't know if the stock ECU can make that, but I have heard of a 176 WHP S4 NA with nothing but exhaust and a FPR).

I would rebuild what you have. Turbo engines and drivetrain cost a lot (I think I have almost $2000 in mine if I include the clutch, transmission, engine, differential, axles shafts, driveshaft and turbo).

[nvno1]

If your on a tight budget, i would rebuild what you have. If you can get the TII motor(running),tranny, wiring harness, tranny, ecu cheap ($500-$1000) then go for it, if not rebuild with a streetport would be nice.

I had a 84gslse whos heart died and went the TII route, $1700.00 budget now $2400 and climbing. if you can do it yourself it would help a lot and having your space to work would be even better;).

[Rotary#10]

Just get the motor rebuild, if you can do it yourself thats even better. i'd stick with stock until my funds become more solid. But make plans futher down the road. Also be sure to set money aside as a rainy day fund for the 7.

[bigtony08]

go lsx!

[NoDOHC]

go lsx

Makes for an awesome car, but not cheap. I would have done this too except I had half the parts I needed for a turbo swap already, it was far cheaper and I am only 75 Hp down from a stock ls1 and I haven't even strapped the GT37 on yet.

An ls1 swap is going to cost him at least $4,000 (if he gets a t56, connects the speedometer and make appropriate drivetrain upgrades).

[parrotfever]

Many thanks to all for helping me clarify my thoughts! I've spent time trying to gain an education by following threads and many (most?) involve turbo upgrades/conversions. It starts one to thinking. It would be nice to have an additional 25-50 HP if I can find it NA, but I recognize I'm not ready to look further at this time. I can fit the ballparks suggested in the budget and tackle the rest of the carcass first. Once I've got a good rolling platform, I can begin to play. First looking for rotor/housing as time allows.

Ted, :dunno:

Maybe it was a bad day? Perhaps perspective. To clarify, I bought this car new in 1989, I've hung on through moves, divorce, singlehood, remarraige. I bought it for its engine which fascinated me from the first one I saw in Manhattan in 1972 but never understood until dismantling it last month. I bought it for its handling, reminicent of my 1959 Triumph TR-3. I'll NEVER dump it. I have no idea if that places me into your definition of an enthusiast or not, but it fits mine. :driving:

I come from a culture where matching numbers and OEM correctness mean everything. I've entered a culture where other goals apply. I'm seeking advice as to potential paths forward from others who have walked them. I thought that was one of this forum's purposes. In the end, of course it is I who will decide. Peace. :001_005:

[djmtsu]

Don't worry about Ted, every day is a bad day for him. :)

Rebuild it with some simple mods, nothing too crazy. The things I listed are easy, effective, and make a difference. Also, I would say to upgrade the radiator, and maybe go e-fan with a SPAL controller, but it might not be necessary in NJ.

Good luck man!!

[parrotfever]

Appreciate the support! My next step will be to run spec measurements on all parts. This I understand as was a tool & die maker & draftsman in a previous life. Any additional needs/concerns will come to light then. Next question - replace all seals, grommets, etc. w/ new? Is anything reusable? Complete rebuild kits are pricey from what I've seen.

Also, I neglected to add that the culture I come from included the ability to do a complete tuneup with a screwdriver, open end wrench, and a piece of 1/4" air hose to balance the SUs. Where do I start to get an education on 'computer tuning'? Does this mean someday I'll be running more than GPS on my laptop?

[Phoenix7]

Don't worry about Ted, every day is a bad day for him. :)

Rebuild it with some simple mods, nothing too crazy. The things I listed are easy, effective, and make a difference. Also, I would say to upgrade the radiator, and maybe go e-fan with a SPAL controller, but it might not be necessary in NJ.

Good luck man!!
Ted's just grumpy until he figures out you're not some kiddie with pipe dreams of dorifto mastery with the rotary.

It's not easy maintaining a 7, let alone with a full family.

get it back on the road. You won't be disappointed in the NA motor.

YOu won't be doing much computer tuning but you'll do similar adjustments on the electronics (tps, crank angle sensor, etc., etc.)

YOu have to take the motor apart and see what needs to be replaced and what can be reused.

[Phoenix7]

rebuild kits wil be much cheaper if you join here:
www.nasaproracing.com

Once you get your member info from them send it to:
https://www.mazdamotorsports.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/B2BDirect/MazdaSportsHomePageArea/PreregistrationSubSection/PreReg.jsp?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1
and you should get a discount.

[NoDOHC]

That is awesome that you are the original owner of the car!

How many miles were on the clock when it died?

Which rotor went out?

How much carbon was found in the rotating port sleeves on the outside two housings?

You don't need a full rebuild kit, just figure out which parts you need and get them.

I have a very nice S5 housing (basically mint condition) that I can sell you for $50 plus shipping. (Mostly because I want to see the car on the road again, it is worth more than that).

I would sell you a good rotor, but they are spoken for (going in my 4-port).

I will give you one rotor worth of OEM Mazda seals (about 20,000 miles on them). I have not checked them for size, but I doubt they are out of spec.

You can fix your old rotor if you are patient. I have seen guys rebuild a rotary with used hard seals and the original rotors (all the seal grooves will need to have the appropriate sized broach driven through them, and then checked for fitment very carefully).

Many would disagree, but I think that using the original rotor (reshaped) is your best option.

A gasket and soft seal kit will cost you about $150.00 on eBay.

PM me if you are interested in the seals or the rotor.

[parrotfever]

That is awesome that you are the original owner of the car!

How many miles were on the clock when it died?

Which rotor went out?

How much carbon was found in the rotating port sleeves on the outside two housings?

087,870 (think I pulled it on purpose at that reading) on the ODO + ~30M with speedometer disconnected.

Something broke loose into the rear chamber. The rear rotor & housing sustained severe damage. Too many 9000+ shifts I guess.

As to carbon - very light. Cleanup of internals barely necessary. The outside took a beating from being dragged all over the State.

[parrotfever]

rebuild kits wil be much cheaper if you join here:
www.nasaproracing.com

Once you get your member info from them send it to:
https://www.mazdamotorsports.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/B2BDirect/MazdaSportsHomePageArea/PreregistrationSubSection/PreReg.jsp?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1
and you should get a discount.

Many thanks for the info! Wondered how one cracked that barrier. :banghead:

[Flooder]

but I have heard of a 176 WHP S4 NA with nothing but exhaust and a FPR).

I'm going to pull a Ted and say "That's BS, dyno sheet or gtfo". Paraphrasing of course :).

[Phoenix7]

Many thanks for the info! Wondered how one cracked that barrier. :banghead:I found that to be the cheapest route. $45 bucks gets you NASA membership and 1 year to grassroots. I think NASA is a much more than that.

You just need to go to the track 2x per year and provide proof of track-time and you get a discount. They also have contingency (prize money for representing mazda) programs but haven't looked into them.

[Phoenix7]

as far as 176 with exhaust and FPR....:dunno: since it's hearsay and haven't seen a setup.

Wife's NA dyno'ed 150rwhp with SAFC, pineapple racing sleeves, intake and full RB collected system tuned in the 12s. I think we could have squeezed another 20 with finer tuning, true-duals and a better intake...dunno.

[jerd_hambone]

Stay n/a... but with an extra rotor :suspect:

Agreed!



I'd honestly rebuild, port, RB header and exhaust, intake, short shifter, RB suspension package, basically everything that was mentioned haha

[NoDOHC]

as far as 176 with exhaust and FPR.... since it's hearsay and haven't seen a setup.

Wife's NA dyno'ed 150rwhp with SAFC, pineapple racing sleeves, intake and full RB collected system tuned in the 12s. I think we could have squeezed another 20 with finer tuning, true-duals and a better intake...dunno.

I hate to invoke the 'evil' forum but:

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=712131

Two engines over 170 WHp with stock ports stock ECUs on the first page (I didn't dig too deep)