6p turbo LOW OIL PRESSURE!

[FerociousP]

This is updated from the other forum where originally posted...

motor:

- s5 6port turbo conversion
- s5 n/a block, stock s5 t2 everything else
- oil feed line taken from aftermarket oil pedestal
- tapped n/a cover for stock turbo oil return
- autometer sport comp elec. gauge in stock location
- mech oil pressure gauge in pedestal

problem:

Oil pressure upon initial startup of the motor was around 28-30 psi at idle and above 50psi at rpm. as motor warms up, oil pressure declines.

startup cold:

25 psi at 800rpm, 50 psi when I rev.

hot driving:

30-35 psi at 2k, 40-50psi from 3k on.

hot idling:

0-10 psi at 800, 15-20 psi at 1200.

Other:

- oil psi does not decrease (just stops around 50psi) at higher RPM
- 20w50 Castrol conventional
- Pure-one oil filter
- gauge wiring has clean, tight connection


mech gauge tested... pressure on the electric gauge accurate,
mech gauge shows 10psi at idle

oil is a grayish color, similar looking to antisieze (for threads) but darker and without being shiny... Is that a telltale sign of anything??

[classicauto]

Mileage on the engine? Could be a failing regulator.

EDIT: also, just realized this was a 6Port turbo...

The way you've done turbo oiling *seems* alright, shouldn't affect the pressure too much....


Greyish oil is a sign of contamination (obviously) that may have come from bearings.

[djmtsu]

I can answer a few questions for Paul, since I helped build it.

Mileage really is unknown. We bought the engine from a 7 lover in Bama. We pulled it out of the car, running perfect. The engine ran great and had no issues.

We did the 6 port turbo conversion, using all TII factory parts, with the exception of the Japan2LA modified LIM. After the conversion is when the motor's oil pressure started acting funny.

I recommended replacing the regulator, but we haven't yet.

[85rx-7gsl-se]

Its the pink fender :D

[djmtsu]

Its the pink fender :D

SSSSSsssshhhhhh..............

[classicauto]

Hmm, well I'd say the regulator would be a good place to start. There's not many things that would lower the pressure significantly other then the pump (its possible, but I've never seen a bad one) the regulator really.

Tough call.

But with greyish oil, I'd be addressing this sooner rather then later.....ideally immedeatly rather then sooner :)

[FerociousP]

i'm working on an escort that I just got running to be my DD while i tear it down, so it'll be just a few more weeks until I can try to change it....

I've read that greyish oil is a sign of water or coolant, but I'm not losing any... could the turbo itself be failing internally causing probs?

[85rx-7gsl-se]

Need any help, let me know :)

[FerociousP]

the pink fender was there when the engine was fine... look at the deal's gap pics sshheesshh

[85rx-7gsl-se]

I know, I just figured I would say it before DJ did :D

[J-Rat]

What about the oil ring behind the front cover? Thats notorious for dropping out and causing low oil pressure issues.

Rat

[85rx-7gsl-se]

^ That's what RETed mentioned on 7club, that is very likely.

[djmtsu]

Yup, I think we just need to pull the front cover off and go from there. I know he doesn't want to do it, but hey its worth a shot and DGRR is coming up quick. Hopefully he can tear it apart next weekend when he can use my garage.

[85rx-7gsl-se]

I really hope he can get this resolved by DGRR, we don't want another Rest Stop incident :(

[classicauto]

I've read that greyish oil is a sign of water or coolant,

Well in my experience by the time you get enough water in your oil to actually change it a greyish colour, you'd need to be missing alot of water.

If anything its a combinaiton of poor crankcase venting (and the moisture that would put in the oil) and other contaminants that are changing the colour.

[FerociousP]

there is actually alot of breathing... vent on the oil tube is open. no emissions.

What about the oil ring behind the front cover? Thats notorious for dropping out and causing low oil pressure issues.

is that something that would be so consistent?? it was 50-60psi at startup today (cold as balls outside) but by the time I got to work it was a 10psi, revs would send it up to 50 but it stabilizes instead of dropping like I hear the oring causes.. am i correct?? If I let it cool down and restart it the same thing happens...

[classicauto]

is that something that would be so consistent?? it was 50-60psi at startup today (cold as balls outside) but by the time I got to work it was a 10psi, revs would send it up to 50 but it stabilizes instead of dropping like I hear the oring causes.. am i correct?? If I let it cool down and restart it the same thing happens...

Although I've never experienced low oil pressure due to that o-ring myself, talking to those who have - yes it is very consistent because it not being there/it being blown out causes the pressure to be low all the time as that o-ring isn't sealing at any time. But again, thats going by second accounts of front cover o-ring failure.

[FerociousP]

well, i got the other car running... so hopefully I can get it torn down and replace what I can and see what happens... should I replace the regulators and such as well?? I guess I can check the pump for damage while i'm at it.

[RETed]

It's most likely the o-ring.
If it's not, you're not going to like the alternatives. :(
The other two possible culprits are either the front or the rear (main) OPR's.
This is highly unlikely if the engine has never been opened up.
It's is very unlikely either would fail, but there is always a first.
I've had both of them fall out (don't ask), and they exhibit the same symptoms you describe.

If all of that checks out, you got a massive blockage somewhere in the oil system...again, highly unlikely but you never know...


-Ted

[Iox106]

Sounds like the o-ring to me.

http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/oring.htm

What you are trying to prevent is having the gasket and O-ring squeezing out of place and blowing the oil (under pressure) into the front cover instead of through the engine. SYMPTOMS of this problem are lower oil pressure at all times, but especially when the engine is hot. A slight "squeeze-out" can give 10-20 lbs at idle, 40-55 at 3500rpm, and drop to 35lbs at 5000rpm. A large "squeeze-out" can give almost zero at idle, and maybe 35-40lbs above 2000rpm.

[FerociousP]

I think if it were me, I'd go on and pull it out real quick. It's a simplified FC, so you can have the engine out in an hour if you know what you are doing. This will make the front cover inspection/job SO MUCH easier, and if you get in there and find no issues with the o-ring and oilpump, well then you can go ahead and tear it down...or at least pull the main bearings for further inspection.

we could have it out in a hour, and even take it apart. its the putting it back together part that I'm not so keen on, as i've never done it before... :leaving:

[djmtsu]

I think it is a little close to DGRR to get into a rebuild. Besides, finding a good 4 port engine, and rebuilding it would be a better idea. Right gay boy?

[djmtsu]

SO, if just Paul comes, than its a $75 rebuild.



































DO IT!!!

[FerociousP]

yes, but that takes money and a donor 4-port... maybe when I get my taxes back I can give it right to kevin and get a rebuild, but that has yet to materialize

[djmtsu]

By the power of Grayskull!!!!!



PS-Fixed

[FerociousP]

damn those posts were quick...

[djmtsu]

That sounds like a good plan, I think you an Paul need to take it to PM.

PS- Could you have the motor rebuilt and ready to rock with time to spare for install and break in by DGRR?!?!?

[djmtsu]

Like I said, maybe talk to Paul, and Phil. I don't even know if there is a place there to do something like this.

But I agree it would be a great benefit to the community. Also, it shows how giving you are, since you are teaching people to do themselves what you make your living on.

Kudos.

[FerociousP]

I think the point of it would be to do it DURING DGRR so that attendees can be part of the class/demo.

I have even thought of doing a build at DGRR and then giving the engine away as a door prize, but I'd have no way to determine which year/model to build, since I dont know who the winner would be or what they own. So it wouldnt work.

then we need to do what has to be done.... rig the door prize..:Wconfused:... no??

seriously though... I would be interested in going 4-port for flow reasons, rotors I would have to think about... recommend hi-comp 4port??

realistically what would the parts cost? would this idea involve bringing the motor alone or doing it all at the gap?? i'd be embarassed putting a frash motor in a pink car!! :icon_tdown: