Re-chromed rotor housings

[glassman]

There is a long thread on the other forum :icon_tdown: which will probably be shut down soon because you have to pay them to tell any good news.

Anyway, we'll start one here. Below are pics of the first housing we had done and then the second done so you can see the improvement. Right now we are working on fixtures to be able to do them in production form as a matched pair of housings. At the same time we are making the necessary parts for chroming 12A housings as there will be an immediate demand for 12A as you can no longer buy new ones. 6 FD housing are ready and waiting too.

We have the housings pictured below in a running engine for a couple of years now so all looks good so far.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/NRS/7NRS1stre-chrome1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/NRS/7NRS1stre-chrome2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/NRS/7NRS1stre-chrome3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/NRS/7NRS1stre-chrome4.jpg

And the second one done: It's the same shot getting progressively brighter. This is the final and how we want them to look.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/NRS/8NRS2ndre-chrome1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/NRS/8NRS2ndre-chrome2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/NRS/8NRS2ndre-chrome3.jpg

[Whizbang]

OMG its about time! I knew savnig old housings would pay off. Will you have the info about the limitations of what can be re-chromed?

[C. Ludwig]

Looks great! What is the material used? Cost?

[glassman]

Right now we are only able to re-chrome housings with no damage to the steel insert. Later on we plan on developing a method of repairing the steel insert so even damaged housings could be done.

Material used is top quality hard chrome duplicating the factory finish as close as possible.

[Kim]

Looks great man.
This is what we need, I'm tired of cnc'ing 13B housings to 12A size.
Would you be able to rechrome MFR rotorhousings too ?

Kim - Lost member of the RX7club.

[glassman]

We're looking at MFR housings as well and my guy tells me they should be no problem, just have to deal with them a bit differently with no steel insert.

[need RX7]

Good stuff! What do you think this treatment would cost?

[glassman]

At this point I'm not too worried about pricing for resale, it will be good. There are always ways to bring down production costs. Besides we need to get everything set-up first and do a pile of testing in some race cars.

[My5ABaby]

At this point I'm not too worried about pricing for resale, it will be good. There are always ways to bring down production costs. Besides we need to get everything set-up first and do a pile of testing in some race cars.
Although it's early in the process and I assume you can only venture a tentative statement, how will the pricing compare to your ceramic coating?

[glassman]

I don't do ceramic coating, that's JHB

[My5ABaby]

I don't do ceramic coating, that's JHB

Well nevermind then. :001_005:

[1stGenNutt]

hmm your saying that the steel insert damage is the only thing you cannot fix so reseeding chromium is not a problem what about mild scratches around exhaust ports . define extent of damage ?

[Whizbang]

im curious what the updates on this are

[knonfs]

im curious what the updates on this are
Same here!

[glassman]

hmm your saying that the steel insert damage is the only thing you cannot fix so reseeding chromium is not a problem what about mild scratches around exhaust ports . define extent of damage ?


That's right for now we cannot repair the steel insert but that will be looked into after we finish the required fixture for production chroming.

Scratches are no problem as long as they do not extend into the steel insert and cause it damage. In other words if the chrome is removed there can be no damage to the steel insert because it would have to be repaired before re-applying the chrome. Any existing damage however mild would only be accentuated by the chrome.

[Whizbang]

well i have been saving my rotor housings.

[glassman]

Here's some pics of the housings from my engine on tear down. I'm going to see how these come out but we have some others to try too. The flaking on the edges from the wedge trace hopefully is not too deep. I've marked the housings SFD01 and SFD02 so we can compare after they are re-chromed. The scratches seen in the pics are what I would consider acceptable for re-chrome, as long as the steel underneath is good.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/Re-Chrome/DSC03690a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/Re-Chrome/DSC03687a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/Re-Chrome/DSC03691a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/Re-Chrome/DSC03692.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/Re-Chrome/DSC03693a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/Re-Chrome/DSC03694.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/Re-Chrome/DSC03695.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/Re-Chrome/DSC03698a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/Re-Chrome/DSC03699a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/Re-Chrome/DSC03700a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/glassmancanada/Re-Chrome/DSC03701a.jpg

[Whizbang]

so flaking is fixable essentially?

[glassman]

It is subjective as to whether flaking is repairable or not. If the steel underneath the flaked area is pitted and rusted then that will translate into the chrome when re-applied. Really we will need to strip a bunch of flaked housings to see how they look in the flaked area compared to the rest of the insert. On an old 4 port housing I have the flaked area was evident once stripped but housings recently taken from service may not show this problem as the flaked area hasn't had time to degredate.

[2gslse]

When are you planning on starting production? have you decided pricing yet?

[glassman]

Well we hope to get it off the ground over the winter. There is still some challenges with our fixture but we are working out the bugs one at a time. Pricing will depend on how well the fixture works, if we can get things going smoothly with fast changes to the next pair this will keep costs down. Our goal is around half of new, hopefully we will hit that mark.

[Nismo]

Are you testing with Steel Seals, or just your Ceramic?

[glassman]

Right now the 2 housings in service are running steel seals. For starters we will use steel factory seals so we are comparing on even ground. We need to know how the chrome wll stand up to OEM use situations long term.

[NoDOHC]

How is this going? Does this process appear to be feasible yet?

[glassman]

The fixture were making has been more problematic than expected so we've decided to scrap the origional design in favor of a new design that will eliminate previous problems. We've learned a lot from messing with this thing and the new fixture will be much more functional with faster changes possible. Really it comes down to throwing more money at it, so once my parts order is completed I can look at moving forward with the new design.

We've also applied for a government grant to help get this moving along, if that goes through things will happen a lot sooner with proper cash flow to commit to the project. The funds would also be used to explore means of repairing gouged housings for re-chrome.

[NoDOHC]

I have several housings that are undamaged, but worn. Can you take them for a beta test? I don't mind paying $200-$300 per housing if they turn out to make compression. If the process fails, I got them for nearly nothing and they are worthless now, so I don't mind. Maybe if a few people do this it will help with the development costs (I don't know what the costs are - probably higher than a few jobs in the backlog would cover).

[TitaniumTT]

I would be interested as well. I've got a few housings kicking around that are worn, scarred, but not into the steel that I'm aware of.

Would be willing to put them into know working good engines and run a few dyno's, track days, auto-x's 10k miles and pull them apart and send them to you for inspection.

Always interested in research and development

[glassman]

^^Hey guy's, definitly we could use some housings for chroming down the road once the trial runs are completed. The more beta testing the better. We have about 6 FD hosuings that are nice candidates to get us started as well as some 12A. Once we get them completed I'll post pics and then we can look at getting you guy's set up.

[glassman]

I hope your efforts turn out better than JHB's. Their coatings seem to flake back off rather quickly from what I have seen.

Rob hasn't taken the engine apart yet but it seems to be running quite well with no signs of lost compression. Cermet and hard chrome are quite different animals, as long as our prep work is good the chrome should stay on and we are using the best quality chrome available to us here.
Thanks

[Nismo]

I have crap loads of housings, I am building an engine in the next 8 months, I'd be more than willing to try this out if everything comes together in time.

Plus I'm in Canada :)

[glassman]

Excellent, hopefully we can work something out for you. I'll be checking the status of our grant application on Monday, the guy I deal with has been out of town.

[Ian]

Any progress on this?

[glassman]

Yea, we are unable to get a grant so the new fixture will have to be funded out of pocket. Just need to allocate some funds for this as it will not be cheap to make.

[bumpstart]

BEST thread on the rotary webz , subscribed

with out giving away the trade secrets
is the chroming treatment staged in steps with varying chrome compositions
to put softer but corrosion resistant layers on the liner
and progressively harder chromes on the surface treatments
( as i believe mazda evolved after noting chrome to liner separations )

i guess what i am asking is ,, does this new process have specialized layer compositions to
1: bond favourably to the liner
2: another that is impervious to mixture and moisture from attacking the inner and causing separation
3: hard faced on the top to limit galling and friction

also,, any plans to try a final nikaseal facing?

[glassman]

BEST thread on the rotary webz , subscribed

with out giving away the trade secrets
is the chroming treatment staged in steps with varying chrome compositions
to put softer but corrosion resistant layers on the liner
and progressively harder chromes on the surface treatments
( as i believe mazda evolved after noting chrome to liner separations )

i guess what i am asking is ,, does this new process have specialized layer compositions to
1: bond favourably to the liner
2: another that is impervious to mixture and moisture from attacking the inner and causing separation
3: hard faced on the top to limit galling and friction

also,, any plans to try a final nikaseal facing?

Hi and thanks for your questions.
At this point no there is no progressive application of the chrome, we were just happy to get the result we did after so many others have tried with mixed results. My guy tells me that the chrome flaking is due to the prep of the liner and feels we wont have this issue. We use the best quality hard chrome available and I guess the real tell will be when the engine Pineapple Racing built comes apart and we can see the internals. It's been a few years so its just about time to get at that.

No real plans for Nikasil at this point although we do have access to it and I already have a client who uses Nikasil on the housings for their 35cc UAV engines. In fact they ran the special custom ceramic apex seals we made directly on the steel housings with no heat treating or hardening of any kind. Cubewano reported the steel polished like a mirror with no advetrse wear patterns.

On the Nikasil housings they have run the engine with ceramic seals for 250 hrs with no measurable wear to seals and housings alike. Measurements were taken with a digital Mic in a temperature controlled environment.

I'll definitly be talking to my guy about your points though :)

[Ian]

If you can produce this for way less then stock housings you will be swamped with orders. People better stop throwing out housings. I have a few sets that required refurbishment but I went and bought new housings to bed in those NRS seals :)

Hopefully this venture will progress..

[speedjunkie]

This is so awesome. I really hope the Pineapple Racing engine comes through with good results.

[bumpstart]

Hi and thanks for your questions.
At this point no there is no progressive application of the chrome, we were just happy to get the result we did after so many others have tried with mixed results. My guy tells me that the chrome flaking is due to the prep of the liner and feels we wont have this issue. We use the best quality hard chrome available and I guess the real tell will be when the engine Pineapple Racing built comes apart and we can see the internals. It's been a few years so its just about time to get at that.

No real plans for Nikasil at this point although we do have access to it and I already have a client who uses Nikasil on the housings for their 35cc UAV engines. In fact they ran the special custom ceramic apex seals we made directly on the steel housings with no heat treating or hardening of any kind. Cubewano reported the steel polished like a mirror with no advetrse wear patterns.

On the Nikasil housings they have run the engine with ceramic seals for 250 hrs with no measurable wear to seals and housings alike. Measurements were taken with a digital Mic in a temperature controlled environment.

I'll definitly be talking to my guy about your points though :)

thanks for the reply
yes we will all look forward with much hope to the results of the pineapple pull down
if it shows compatibility with mazda seals you are onto a huge thing

my leading questions as to the process of chroming
comes from recalling some SAE paper some-wheres regarding to the varying Cu / Si / Cr compositions in the chrome applications
all done in sequence to promote bonding, corrosion resistance and hard facing
- not all normally applicable in just one chroming application

as for the nikasil -
- nikasil has been shown to work well in the UAV engines and i wonder if a trial recoat on mazda housings is worth a look-see
particularly in view that the process may be simpler than multiple chrome composition application
and due to the the apparent compatibility of nikasil with the ceramic seals

BTW,, if you don't mind ,, for interests sake
( i don't own a rechroming business !! )
is the initial stripping process a hone, electrolysis , or a media abrasion technique?

[bumpstart]

ps
would love to learn your digital mic technique for gauging the inner housing dimensions
is there any chance of some pics of this in action,, or a vid ?

my own process are far more rudimentry than that,, and something i wish to improve on

[NoDOHC]

I too am glad to see this progressing.

I have a bunch of housings that are past resurfacing (although that is a really cool survice that goopy offers) and will need to be rechromed. I hate throwing things away, so I have been saving them.

bumpstart, you should contribute in the tech section, I like your attitude!

[bumpstart]

bumpstart, you should contribute in the tech section, I like your attitude!

i think everybody in mazda land wants to see this work,, and in sven's capable hands
- one of the few capable of the R&D needed to make this work

though i think shipping back and forth from ANZ is going to be a deal breaker for anzacs, no matter what price sven can cut
if he gets it to work satisfactorilly,, methinks he is also going to be swamped with work just from the US/canadian market

- am hoping he can patent the ideas and allow something to happen closer to our shores that he ( and us ) can benefit from


myself, like many have had these ideas for a while
,, but not the manpower or budget to do anything about it

as is,, some in aus have done the lesser "goopy" thing before,, privately,, and never yelled it from rooftops
am hoping at least that low tech part of the process ( not chroming ) will kick off soon in aus
- would love for sven to at least sub contract his part of the principle out and make the entire refurbish process economically available to a world market





as for your kind words,, thanks,, but here i think there is very esteemed company
much of them would be frustrated with my
" zero budget , can do " approach !
- my knowledge is hands on , low budget, learn the hard way
and it comes from being technically unemployable due to chronic injury and still wishing to have some toys and be useful to somebody

[glassman]

Yea we've thought about that and realise the AU/NZ markets will be huge. The only way to properly service these markets and the like would be to set up facilities in that country and do the chroming there. Under a licencing agreement or something.

A note on the Pineapple engine. I talked to Rob a couple of days ago and the owner of the car is not going to want the engine out of his car. It is his daily driver and everything appears to be fine so far. Rob suggested a comp test and I added the suggestion of removing the header and taking some pics inside the exhaust ports so we'll see what that shows.

[glassman]

ps
would love to learn your digital mic technique for gauging the inner housing dimensions
is there any chance of some pics of this in action,, or a vid ?

my own process are far more rudimentry than that,, and something i wish to improve on

This was performed by my customer for their 35 cc UAV engines they manufacture. You can check out their website here for some vids.

http://www.cubewano.com/index.php?id=Resources

Vids at the bottom

[glassman]

Ok, well we dished out some more $1000's and all our pcs are on order for the fixture. We should have everything in a couple of weeks. Then off to the machine shop and then some welding etc.

Hopefully we'll have some results and some housings done in a couple of months time or less.

We really want to get this going so I'll be pusing for sooner. The last step in finishing this project is underway so get ready everyone and dig out those housings you've been hanging onto. Once we run a few pairs we will be looking for those interested in beta testing.

[TitaniumTT]

A) The beta tester that has the engine through Pineapple not relinquishing the engine for a few days for a tear down, that's total BS. Even with no written agreement, he should have some conscience about him to give it up to let it be tore down. I'm sure he got a killer deal on the engine so I'm actually a little pissed that he's not sharing results.

B) I've been saving housings for quite some time just for this. I'm ready willing and able to put them into my FD build where I'll be looking for 500rwhp+

[Ian]

+1. I myself have at least 6 housings. And three running performing engines that hopefully will not need "The process"

Thanks glassman for putting up the research.

Looking forward to seeing the results....

[glassman]

A) The beta tester that has the engine through Pineapple not relinquishing the engine for a few days for a tear down, that's total BS. Even with no written agreement, he should have some conscience about him to give it up to let it be tore down. I'm sure he got a killer deal on the engine so I'm actually a little pissed that he's not sharing results.



Actually I'm not surprised at all. Every single time I've requested data for one reason or another from anyone in the last 11 yrs I've never once got anything at all from anyone in the form of concrete data.

Having said that, please understand the guy is a customer who wanted a re-build, he paid full price for this engine and agreed to have it in his car because Rob gave him a smokin warranty for doing it. No loss to him if it goes wrong. It's the guy's commuter to and from work so we get some good mileage there but he cannot be without it at this point. Don't worry, we'll get a look through the exhaust ports and eventually it will come apart for all to see.

Actually only one of the housings in his engine has the re-chrome, Rob built a seperate engine with the other housing we had. Basically we wanted a starting point as fast as possible and this was the best opportunity to make that happen. In the long run it will pay off because we get some high miles, I believe the engine has been running for 3+ yrs :)

[NoDOHC]

Want to do another pilot? How about several others?

As long as the price is fair (about 1/2 a new housing plus shipping) - I will be glad to provide you with 2 housings to be re-chromed. Even if they fail prematurely, I don't mind - they are nothing but scrap right now and it only takes a weekend day to remove, rebuild and reinstall an engine.

If I get 3 years on them, they should have 40,000 ish miles. My '86 is my daily driver for 8 months out of the year. I for one wouldn't mind tearing the engine down to get pictures. (I have done it before).

[glassman]

Yea sure, I'll try and talk with my guy tomorrow and nail down some prices for a small run of housings.

I'll let you know asap :) FD housings would likely see the most benefit in the way of savings if you have any of them.

I know prices are going up here substantially on all factory parts. What is the situation there on that? How much for a new housing?

[speedjunkie]

I'd be down to be a tester as well. And I'm rebuilding my engine now so it would be PERFECT haha. I'm really hoping you guys offer this as a service, sooner rather than later would be best but if you end up offering it at all I'd be super happy.

[glassman]

I'll be going to see my guy within the hour and we'll get this moving along.
I'll post back here with the details

[glassman]

I'm just working out the details and will post soon on what I've come up with.

I do believe you will be happy!

[speedjunkie]

So there is a chance I can do this too? If so, would I be sending my housings or getting some that are already done?

[glassman]

Ok, here's the skinny.

Taking into account those who want to participate we've had to consider a few things.
#1 your participation is worth something to us.
#2 potential of actually getting data back from participants
#3 a minimum # of housings needed to proceed
#4 liability

1) We feel that anyone’s involvement should come with some kind of recompense so we've decided to offer them below what our goal is of half of new. New being based on what the average shop would pay for them. Even with the cost being much higher without being set-up for production. This would be your recompense.

2) We realise that we may not get all the kind of data we want from this. My experience tells me that no matter what is promised; seldom do people actually come through with details. So this still leaves an area that needs to be resolved. I see 2 options for this. The first option is to settle for what ever people want to offer for data and let it go at that. Obviously this would be less desirable for us but then there are no expectations on either party. The other option is to charge an additional $100 per housing which would be reimbursed upon receiving proper data. This way we are more assured to get what we want from this. Option 2 would likely come with some other benefits in the way of first dibs and/or perhaps special pricing on initial order or over a period of time. It would likely include options for testing other developments we have cooking in the future.

3) We need a minimum of 12 housings to proceed, more than that is ok too.

4) Participants would need to sign a waiver for all liability including; loss, damage, injury etc. This has never been done so we will NOT be responsible for any expected or imagined result. Having said that our ultimate goal is to make this work and you are an integral part of that. We will do everything we can to ensure your success with them including offering any technical support necessary.

Now the good part ;)

Re-chrome Price = $250 per housing Canadian Dollars (special price as your recompense)
Data deposit = $100 per housing US Dollars (this will be paid to Pineapple Racing for ease of reimbursement, no exchange rates to worry about)
Shipping Return = $50 Canadian Dollars for 2 housings and $32 for 1 housing
Shipped in a factory housing box.

I've contacted USPS to get an extimate on your cost to ship to Canada and I was surprised that Canada Post was cheaper to return than USPS is to get them here. That's a first! Anyway the shipping cost by USPS Priority Mail International in a factory box is $73.00 USD for 2 housings.

I asked about the flat rate box and they tell me if you can fit it in the box and close it they will take it. Medium Flat Rate Box is 13-5/8" X 11-7/8" X 3-3/8" for $27.95 USD. The rotor housing is 13" X 12-5/8" X 3-1/8" approx so it would be close with the studs removed and placed seperately in the box. Otherwise the large is $35 USD. Can someone check if they can fit the housing in one?? I think if you bump the sides in a bit it might go in. The post office here say's they will ship back in the same box as long as we cover up the USPS markings.

So if we add it all up based on a pair of housings we get;

$500 CDN + $50 CDN = $550 CDN
plus
$200 USD + $73 USD = $273 USD

The $200 is kept in trust with Pineapple for reimbursement so that leaves the $73 USD you would have to pay to get them here.

Based on today's exchange rate $550 CDN is about $570 USD.

So if you look at it from there your cost is approx $570 + $73 = $643 USD per pair not counting the data deposit. I didn't count it here because you WILL give us the data and get the $200 back :smilielol5:
The amount will vary a little on the $CDN conversion due to daily exchange variences. You will be given an amount the day of your payment for best accuracy. The cost will also come down by $18 USD if the med flat rate box can be used.

I hope you see this as not only an excellent value but an excellent opportunity to be a part of something this exciting and rewarding!

[TitaniumTT]

Very interesting..... Depending on how quickly they can be re-chromed I will be on it for an n/a ported rebuild in my mothers 'vert, I have a set of housings now that would be perfect candidates for Goopy's machining, but I'm willing to use her car/housings as the ginuea pig for my FD build.... comments will result in ban ;)

I think what needs be be made expressly clear is what kind of data you want back. I'm thinking if it can be done soon and I can get the car running around May or June with these housings, we'll have 5-6 months worth of driving and next winter I'll haul the engine and break it apart. Based on my own previous personal experiences, all I would need is an o-ring kit to reassemble the engine. Do to the tightness that I clearance my engines at, my last one after 10k and 100+ dyno pulls still spec'ed out below Mazda's min's. No seals needed, just the o-rings. People should be made aware that if they build an engine properly and care for it properly, this should be the norm, I'm not an engine building genius by any means.

Now I understand that the $200 refund is a good incentive, but maybe consider tossing in Pineapples o-ring kit to reassemble the engine after it's been broken apart? I think this will give people more of an incentive to haul an engine, open it up, and get more data as opposed to just looking inside the exhaust ports. Just my suggestion.

What type of seals do you reccomend using? This being an n/a engine I would prob go with the RA classics. The turbo engine I plan on building will be RA Super Seals. I've noticed MINIMAL chatter marks after years of use, I run pre-mix though, so other results may vary.

What types of housings are you looking for? The ones that I felt were excellent candidates for the re-surfacing were S4 n/a housings. I've got a few pairs of these that are door stops, or worn beyond the limits of the re-surfacing. I've also got one REW housing that is in good shape, minor flaking, and one REW housing that ate an Apex Seal as is destroyed. Would it be good to use these housings for this process? Would it be better to use the S4 N/A housings that are just plain worn out for this process? If there is a difference in housings, can you please explain what they are and why some are better than others? Basically what I don't want to do is use my REW housings for the 'Vert build and then need to sacrifice a little or source busted REW housings when i go to assembly the FD where I'll be looking for 3x the power of the 'Vert.

Approx turn around time?

Thanks so much for this.

-Brian

Oh, and I have to ask, are you still active on 7club posting up about this or were you shunned for not paying vendor fees?

[NoDOHC]

I'm with TTT, exactly what are you looking for data wise?

Do you want the housings sent to you?

Is it ok to disassemble the engine, take four pictures per housing (oil injector, exhaust port, compression area + Trailing plug, hole leading plug hole + expansion area) and post them here?

Do you want a glowing write-up, measurements, etc.?

The housing price seems realistic, the data deposit seems rather low to expect anyone to actually remove and disassemble their engine. Maybe compression readings would be sufficient?

I am willing to pull the engine, disassemble it and take pictures for posterity and the sake of research (no money involved), but I wouldn't disassemble it for $200.00, it would cost me almost that much in gaskets and seals.

[TitaniumTT]

I'm with TTT, exactly what are you looking for data wise?

Do you want the housings sent to you?

Is it ok to disassemble the engine, take four pictures per housing (oil injector, exhaust port, compression area + Trailing plug, hole leading plug hole + expansion area) and post them here?

Do you want a glowing write-up, measurements, etc.?

The housing price seems realistic, the data deposit seems rather low to expect anyone to actually remove and disassemble their engine. Maybe compression readings would be sufficient?

I am willing to pull the engine, disassemble it and take pictures for posterity and the sake of research (no money involved), but I wouldn't disassemble it for $200.00, it would cost me almost that much in gaskets and seals.

That's the blunt way of making my point ;)

[glassman]

I think what needs be be made expressly clear is what kind of data you want back. I'm thinking if it can be done soon and I can get the car running around May or June with these housings, we'll have 5-6 months worth of driving and next winter I'll haul the engine and break it apart. Based on my own previous personal experiences, all I would need is an o-ring kit to reassemble the engine. Do to the tightness that I clearance my engines at, my last one after 10k and 100+ dyno pulls still spec'ed out below Mazda's min's. No seals needed, just the o-rings. People should be made aware that if they build an engine properly and care for it properly, this should be the norm, I'm not an engine building genius by any means.

Now I understand that the $200 refund is a good incentive, but maybe consider tossing in Pineapples o-ring kit to reassemble the engine after it's been broken apart? I think this will give people more of an incentive to haul an engine, open it up, and get more data as opposed to just looking inside the exhaust ports. Just my suggestion.

The kind of data we want would include: Porting, N/A or turbo, as much details of the build as possible, supporting hardware, HP figures, mileage, comp tests, apex seal clearances, premix and anything else you can think of that I'm missing.

I will ask Rob about that.


What type of seals do you reccomend using? This being an n/a engine I would prob go with the RA classics. The turbo engine I plan on building will be RA Super Seals. I've noticed MINIMAL chatter marks after years of use, I run pre-mix though, so other results may vary.

Ideally factory seals, there is a massive amount of data on them as far as wear patterns, expected life etc. Although I guess they will have to work with other seals too, at least as good as they do now on factory plated housings.


What types of housings are you looking for? The ones that I felt were excellent candidates for the re-surfacing were S4 n/a housings. I've got a few pairs of these that are door stops, or worn beyond the limits of the re-surfacing. I've also got one REW housing that is in good shape, minor flaking, and one REW housing that ate an Apex Seal as is destroyed. Would it be good to use these housings for this process? Would it be better to use the S4 N/A housings that are just plain worn out for this process? If there is a difference in housings, can you please explain what they are and why some are better than others? Basically what I don't want to do is use my REW housings for the 'Vert build and then need to sacrifice a little or source busted REW housings when i go to assembly the FD where I'll be looking for 3x the power of the 'Vert.

It doesn't matter the series of the housing. What is imortant is the condition of the steel insert. Whatever is supplied is the quality of surface you can expect. If the housing chrome is just worn or has scratches that are not into the insert they will be just like new. If there is chrome peeling and the insert is pitted or gouged this will translate into the chrome. So basically look at the housing and imagine if the chrome were removed would the insert have any marks, gouges or pitting. Later on we will be looking into repairing the steel insert to salvage any housing.


Approx turn around time?

I will be checking on this for your answer.



Oh, and I have to ask, are you still active on 7club posting up about this or were you shunned for not paying vendor fees?

I started a thread on there but we'll see how long that lasts.

[glassman]

Do you want the housings sent to you?
Yes

Is it ok to disassemble the engine, take four pictures per housing (oil injector, exhaust port, compression area + Trailing plug, hole leading plug hole + expansion area) and post them here?

Do you want a glowing write-up, measurements, etc.?

In addition to some of the specs in my last post yes those pictures would be perfect. I don't know that all measurements are needed as long as they are within factory specs. A lot of the clearances simply do not apply to how the housing chrome stands up. I guess if binding corner seals were a problem that would affect the result.

The housing price seems realistic, the data deposit seems rather low to expect anyone to actually remove and disassemble their engine. Maybe compression readings would be sufficient?

Yes at first they would be sufficient but at some point the engine would have to come down for a look.

I am willing to pull the engine, disassemble it and take pictures for posterity and the sake of research (no money involved), but I wouldn't disassemble it for $200.00, it would cost me almost that much in gaskets and seals.

You don't have to tear it down but then we keep the $200 data deposit.
Maybe we are getting ahead of ourselves. I wouldn't expect you to tear it down right away anyhow. The longer together the better as long is everything is working properly.

[Ian]

I have housings that have apex seal damage. Almost all of them have corner triangle chrome flake? I thought the purpose of rechroming was to get this fixed? So the quality of this rechroming only reflects the quality of the housings to begin with? Is there going to be pictures of acceptable housings vs unacceptable?

For me I would want to try my worst set:) But I have two new engines sitting in my cars now so hopefully no need for new housings right this year :) Mind you the track is pretty rough.....

[glassman]

So the quality of this rechroming only reflects the quality of the housings to begin with?

It reflects the quality of the insert. If you've got housings with major gouges or pitting where chrome is missing then you will want to wait for when we offer the repair service as well.

[Ian]

Any progress on this process?

[glassman]

As a matter of fact yes there has been. We just received yesterday the final pc we've been waiting for. Now it's a matter of some serious machine work and off we go.

The first pair of housings we will do are a pair of S6 housings (pics on pg 2)that came from my engine when I bought the car. They are in decent shape for re-chrome with scratches in the centre around the plugs, chatter and some wedge wear.

Of course I will post as soon as I have them done.

[glassman]

We should have this up and running very soon, stay tuned

[jerd_hambone]

Staying tuned!

[My5ABaby]

Very tuned.

[glassman]

A bit more machine work then some welding and we should be good to go.

[My5ABaby]

A bit more machine work then some welding and we should be good to go.

If you were a chick I'd call you a cock tease... :squint:




:lol:

[13x]

am so waiting to hear progress, I love driving my car and main reason I don't drive her daily is the fact that 12A housings are no longer readily available and I have 4 first gens including my sons back East

It does not appear to be an easy road you've embarked on but does appear there is a light at the end of the tunnel, keep fighting the good fight

[glassman]

If you were a chick I'd call you a cock tease... :squint:




:lol:

Hahaha, here's another tease. We are trying to futher simplify things so that changes are super fast and easy. This means rethinking things somewhat but it makes machining simpler too. I am a real big fan of simplicity.

Also we should have the ablilty to chrome 8 housings at a time once the 2 housing set-up is finalised and working.

[-xlr8planet-]

Im stocking 12a housings waiting for this to happen

[glassman]

Well I've been very busy and haven't had time to work on this. Holiday's are starting now so we will pick this up once I'm back.

[glassman]

Well we just dumped another $3000 into this. Have some parts in the machine shop now and should be done early next week. Shops are very busy here so it's tough to get anything done. We still have some welding to do and sort out other small issues but that shouldn't take too long. We'll do my FD housings first to make sure everything is working good.

[Justen]

subscribed :icon_tup:

[glassman]

Well all the machining is now done. We've done a mock-up of a pair of housings and all looks really good. Next week we'll get to some welding and round up some other misc parts needed. This thing will be off the ground this month barring any setbacks or problems. Don't for see any problems though as everything is really well designed.

[Whizbang]

whats the guessimate cost for this service?

[glassman]

We don't have that nailed yet but we're hoping for half of new

[Sm1nts2escape]

When do you think you will be able to perform this service to the public for the rew? I am getting ready to rebuild my motor.

[glassman]

Should be really soon, we're just about finished

[speedjunkie]

I have a couple 13B housings I'll probably send to you, probably won't be before this next summer though. I need to save up some money for this haha. I'd like to have a couple good housings around though.

[NoDOHC]

Any news on this? Final costing?

[glassman]

A work in progress, we've got our cut list for materials and we'll be working on it again soon.

[woolly]

are you guys offering re-chroming of rotor housings. I see this thread is quite old. what is the latest news

[glassman]

Cut list of materials is done, we need to get everything welded up and then see if it all works as we want

[speedjunkie]

I have some stuff to send you guys so I'm eager to hear more about this.

[RotaryLab]

Can you do peripheral housings as well?

[glassman]

Yes we can

[speedjunkie]

Ok now I'm in need of new housings because the ones I paid for with the ~$4000 build (a year ago) are jacked and look like someone used acid for coolant.

Are you guys accepting housings yet? I have a couple I can send.

[glassman]

If you can send me some pics of the housings I can give my opinion on how they look for re-chrome.

We are not ready yet but we are close. By Friday we can start on this again and finish our trials.

[NYCGPS]

Hey sven, oh man I have 2 S5 NA housings that looks pretty bad. hope a rechrome can give it some new life. Please keep us post. :)

[speedjunkie]

Ok I'll take some pics tomorrow if I can remember and send them to you. Thanks!

I'm in need of housings right now though, in case you have some good ones you can spare lol.

[speedjunkie]

Here are pics of my housings. Also, these have not been cleaned up aside from just a simple wipe down. They haven't been touched for over a year.

First housing...
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/speedjunkie23/f9653f78.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/speedjunkie23/70beac65.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/speedjunkie23/396adba2.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/speedjunkie23/bf8542bc.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/speedjunkie23/9dd1146d.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/speedjunkie23/ef640942.jpg

Second housing...
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/speedjunkie23/1f0fe005.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/speedjunkie23/cb299cc3.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/speedjunkie23/4365a1f1.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/speedjunkie23/1c027af6.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/speedjunkie23/c41b9c0a.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f9/speedjunkie23/9b116097.jpg

[glassman]

Not much for us left to do for us to get this going. Some welding and some fitment then we can do a mock up.
Will keep everyone posted

[glassman]

I've been working on it for the last two days getting everything fitted just nice :) This baby is just about ready for our trials.
Stay tuned for the next update

[banzaitoyota]

Looking forward to it

[GySgtFrank]

:lurk5:

[DriFD3S]

I bet they will look great!

[glassman]

I'm extremely happy to report that we are finished!

I'll be taking the 2 FD housings SFD01 and SFD02 on Monday to get chromed next week.

Of course pics will be posted as soon as they are done.
Happy Trails!

[speedjunkie]

Sweet!

[glassman]

I had 3 tweaks to do, the last tweak is finished and we will be setting up Friday to start chroming my 2 FD housings SFD01 and SDFD02 as in the pictures posted previously.

[glassman]

Dropped everything off on Friday but my guy had gone home for the weekend so we will begin first thing Monday.
Pics to come soon.

[glassman]

The shop is very busy this time of year, lots to get out before break-up being that we are in oil country.
We'll have them finished by weeks end.

[Tanj!]

Updates?

[glassman]

Yea, normally it is a very slow time of the year for my shop but they have been flooded with business non stop.
We have to do a complete change on the set-up which takes a day to do and he has to get everything off his plate to do so.

Once our trial is complete we will look at getting a dedicated set-up just for housings. We want to eventually set-up to do 4 housings at a time or more.

Everything is ready to go I'm just waiting for the phone call.

[glassman]

Well, still waiting for the call. Hopefully it will be soon. Just talked to him today and once he gets a certain job done we can begin.

[reddozen]

Any updates on this?

[TitaniumTT]

18 month bump :smilielol5:

[mattallac]

I'd love to hear of a good use for all the early 13b rotor housings I have thrown away because of chrome peal . Not to be negative but this seems to be a dream with good intentions .

[TitaniumTT]

Wasn't Jonathon over @ Goopy going to get into this :suspect:

[glassman]

I just did an update on the other site. We have our program finished (probably the most accurate rendition of the housing shape on the planet) and next we will make our anode. I'll update once I have more news

[GySgtFrank]

I just did an update on the other site. We have our program finished (probably the most accurate rendition of the housing shape on the planet) and next we will make our anode. I'll update once I have more news

:biggthumpup:

[reddozen]

Thanks for the update. Any new research on repairing larger dings to the surface under the chrome liner?

[glassman]

We are looking at various methods of fixing those

[TitaniumTT]

19 months, any tangible updates?

[glassman]

Yea but I don't want to tell you my problems

[Sm1nts2escape]

any updates?

[Deeman]

What issues have you run into ? I would like to hear if you don't mind
Is it anode related ?

[glassman]

What issues have you run into ? I would like to hear if you don't mind
Is it anode related ?

No not anode related. Just trying to perfect everything and something always seems to creep up. Right now it's a $$ issue.

[glassman]

Like the title says thinking of selling the proceedure and all equipment for rechroming housings.

$16K