1987 Rx7 Turbo II - CHCA Hill Climb Car [Archive]

Whizbang

11-13-2008, 02:00 PM

One of the reasons i love Colorado is that i can satisfy my desire for rally action. Between the CHCA, PPIHC and the numerous rally cross' and the CORE park up near Denver. I'd say this is a pretty good spot. And lets not mention the other back roads i can enjoy.

Since the engine in the Turbo II when down due to heavy amounts of carbon build up. I have decided to take the build of the car in the realm of dirt and gravel. A land where pavement is called Tarmac for really no good reason other than to sound elitist. A place where i can spray spectators will small rocks propelled by my spinning rear wheels.

So read along as i transform my Turbo II into a (hopefully) competent hill climb car.

Whizbang

11-17-2008, 03:43 PM

So where do i start first?

This is the question that i have posed to myself. Its simple but the answer is somewhat complex. I'm 22, recently married, getting into an apartment to establish myself more in Colorado and trying to eventually buy a house in the next year or two. I am going to need a place to store this car, as well as my FB that is still in Ohio and probably another car or two. Additionally, i have tools and spare parts to consider.

So all of life's hassles aside. Here is my "current" plan of attack subject to change with out notice.

Phase 1: The engine.

Getting the car running and driving is my first goal. This will include tackling issues with keeping the car cool and maintaining a reliable state.

Phase 2: The suspension.

Once i can start to drive the car again, i can start figuring out what the suspension needs.

Phase 3: The chassis.

One of the single most expensive items is the roll cage. I want to go with an FIA hom. design so i wont have to worry about updating it every two or so years. Plus my confidence in the cage is paramount. I will be seam welding and reinforcing during this whole process.

Whizbang

11-17-2008, 05:48 PM

Phase 1: The engine

After comparing cost of acquiring a "possibly" good, used engine to that of just rebuilding my engine. I am opting for the rebuild.

Additionally, i can rebuild the motor to make more power and be more reliable. So really its a better road to follow down.

So what is the outline of the build?

NRS 2mm seals. (the big expense...)
9.4:1 rotors
Street port (for simplicity and longevity)
Various cooling tricks including a home brew coolant seal method.
Misc. oiling mods.

the extras i will need will develop as i go. First things first, the motor will need to be pulled and broken down to see what is the status of the internals.

The reasoning for the named parts above is mostly due to my needs. I need low end power and more power everywhere. Between the altitude, the turns and the constant up hill climb, i need more power and sooner. The NRS seals should allow me to put out more power with less worry on engine failure. The 9.4:1 rotors should give me a quicker spool up and better off throttle response.

Whizbang

11-20-2008, 10:55 PM

its seems the cage is going to run me just under 2000 dollars which is must better than another quote i had from another shop of about 3400 dollars (ouch) for the exact same thing but the welder im going to is superior.

Hoping to get the cage work underway starting in about two months. Mostly just finding a place i can get the stripped out so i can get it there way.

proz07

11-21-2008, 06:48 AM

pictures of what your starting with??? and in works. sounds very interesting dont here too many rotaries going rally.
z

Whizbang

11-21-2008, 02:32 PM

pictures of what your starting with??? and in works. sounds very interesting dont here too many rotaries going rally.
z

ill get pictures of the how the car sits but i have not started the work as of yet. Trying to find a location to work on it. But this should develop fast.

Whizbang

11-23-2008, 06:17 PM

these are the pictures of the car as she sits, right now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Tsunami_Bomb/Turbo%20II/DSC02964.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Tsunami_Bomb/Turbo%20II/DSC02965.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Tsunami_Bomb/Turbo%20II/DSC02966.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Tsunami_Bomb/Turbo%20II/DSC02967.jpg

need RX7

11-23-2008, 06:27 PM

Whizbang

11-23-2008, 06:47 PM

Looks like a nice clean base to start out with. I can't wait to see this thing get going, you don't see purpose-built race FCs very often. And I don't think I've ever seen a hill climb FC. Good luck. :icon_tup:

I like that Nova in the background of the first pic too:p

that it is. Its the neighbors. Actually there is quite a few "fun" cars in the area. Just off in the background there is a Corvair as well.

Fidelity101

12-01-2008, 02:21 PM

awesome! I love rally racing - keep us updated on the project.

Mine is going to become a group 2 class car when its done, but right now its in the developmental stages.

Michigan has some good roads, after all the Rally America season opens and ends in Michigan :)

I get to "rally" my awd a4 wagon through the snow come this time of year, waaaaay too much fun

here is some rotary rally history:
http://www.prorallypix.com/RX-7/rx11.html

WE3RX7

12-01-2008, 03:09 PM

Hill climbs are one of the events I plan to attend w/ my FC as well. They're put on by NASA and SCCA out here - I just have to drive to West VA, which isn't too bad.

Looking forward to the build - what part of CO are you in, looks like southwest??

Fidelity101

12-01-2008, 03:25 PM

I wish we had hills to climb here in IL, Michigan has more rolling hills. We only have a handful of rallycrosses for the Detroit region SCCA.

Whizbang

12-01-2008, 04:19 PM

Looking forward to the build - what part of CO are you in, looks like southwest??

coloraod springs which is about centeral - eastern

WE3RX7

12-01-2008, 04:21 PM

Ha - I was off, oh well. Is the other FC (the black one) your daily or a donor?

Whizbang

12-01-2008, 04:34 PM

the daily

warwickben

12-01-2008, 05:12 PM

Whizbang

12-01-2008, 05:33 PM

you guys are so lucky. id rather watch rally racing, hill climbs ect heck the baja 1000 (cant spell ) over drag racing and nascar any day. the closest thing to it near mass is scca rally cross events, which i plan to start doing.

i plan to build my sa up for rally cross and street use.

have you thought about intercooler setups. most fc hill climb cars i have see have a topmount/v mount setup. with a bigger scoop .

I have given most of my thoughts towards a v-mount for best cooling towards the radiator. I plan on running an NA 13B engine first though til i build (and have enough cash to get all the things that the turbo engine requires) so i get seat time.

Fidelity101

12-02-2008, 09:34 PM

I have given most of my thoughts towards a v-mount for best cooling towards the radiator. I plan on running an NA 13B engine first though til i build (and have enough cash to get all the things that the turbo engine requires) so i get seat time.

I hear that lol

I got friends that live in Colorado Springs, if you go to the edge of their backyard there is a cliff and then you can see the air force school.

Ender

12-02-2008, 10:55 PM

Whizbang

12-02-2008, 11:31 PM

You should at least look into making it 4wd, I know it's been done before. Quite a while ago though, I don't have a link. If for no other reason because a 4wd '7, while still rotary powered, simply kicks ass.

but the money and costs involved, not only in building the car, but the increased costs of running ANY AWD car would be hard for me to handle.

warwickben

12-03-2008, 05:48 AM

i here you on the cost of making a rx7 awd. id love to have one just to have some fun in the snow. there is not alot of info on the net about how its been done. what is out there is a custom tube front end and thats about it.

Whizbang

12-03-2008, 08:58 AM

i know how i would do *most* of it. Maybe once i have a garage i might make one for giggles and shits rallycross use. Only thing would be steering and the hubs, but im sure i could find SOMETHING to do the job

warwickben

12-03-2008, 04:05 PM

i have a picture of a carbed 2 rotor motor and drive train. its from one of the older rx7 rally cars.it looks like the front axel from a mazda truck, and drive shaft come out from the side of the tranny for the front axel.

id love to do it to my sa, heck it going to be off the road for a few years. i just dont know how to go about it.

WE3RX7

12-03-2008, 04:12 PM

AWD MPV drivetrain :)

Thats how they did it w/ the mazda factory rally FB...

Whizbang

12-03-2008, 04:22 PM

the MPV had an R type trans?

warwickben

12-03-2008, 04:44 PM

hmm? then you would just need the same diff gearing for the front and back.

Fidelity101

12-03-2008, 09:25 PM

AWD MPV drivetrain :)

Thats how they did it w/ the mazda factory rally FB...

bs?

WE3RX7

12-03-2008, 10:12 PM

Its not BS. Mazda had AWD MPVs they were able to use the drivetrain from in order to make a group B rally FB in the mid 80s. I'm not sure on the exact specifics of how it worked since it was a factory race car and they'll never publish the full build up. I believe Miller used 626 front axles on his AWD FB back in the day which are the same from the MPV so I don't see how it could be BS.

Its not that AWD RX7s are unheard of, its just rare and the people who have done it did it way before the internet so there is very little detail on it.

The MPV AWD FB is in the 1988 Mazda RX7 brochure.... its real, I promise.

WE3RX7

12-03-2008, 10:16 PM

Just checked. They mention the AWD FB in the 1988 brochure, but I believe the pics are in the '86 or '87 brochure.

The '88 Brochure shows Rob Miller's Pike's Peak AWD FC which I believe was also 20B powered....

Whizbang

12-08-2008, 06:14 PM

that and the B2600 R transmission for 4x4 could be used.

Fidelity101

12-09-2008, 10:57 AM

what about the awd front system from the 323 GTX, except those are pretty hard to find and if I found one I would keep it a GTX and probably put a 13b in it lol.

WE3RX7

12-09-2008, 12:53 PM

Honestly, I'm sure it can be done a few different ways, but unfortunately there isn't much on the net about it.

Somebody should step up and do a write-up, lol. I was talking to a buddy of mine about the idea. We may attempt an AWD FB/FC at some point. We have an old AWD MPV sitting at his parent's house with full driveline, etc plus misc other 4x4 vehicles if needed...

Whizbang

12-09-2008, 12:56 PM

how is the engine position in the MPV? what year MPV?

staticpat

12-09-2008, 01:15 PM

From what I read on specialstage it seemed that the old rally FBs were basically escorts with an rx-7 body on it. I didn't look too much into the AWD option for my purposes, but I assume they used all the escort stuff.

Whizbang

12-09-2008, 01:16 PM

they mean MK2 escorts (rwd) and the rwd rx7s

also rallyanarchy.com

WE3RX7

12-09-2008, 03:24 PM

I'll have to talk to him about the MPV. I'm not sure as I've never thought about doing a project like an AWD 7. I just know the MPV sits there with some other cars and has the AWD badge on the back. It's definitely an older MPV for sure, late 80s early 90s.

I would need to find an FB/FC shell and really take a look at everything. I feel that a 12A wouldnt be worth the AWD system - it'd have to get boosted, lol which would be more time/money...

I will create a build thread if this project should ever materialize...

Fidelity101

12-09-2008, 05:24 PM

The only rally FCs/FBs I've personally seen were 2wd but I was a baby in the 80's

Whizbang

12-12-2008, 12:21 PM

im pretty sure i am going to opt for an FB for actually build, but in the meantime i need something for testing of engines that i can drive around regularly without a silly roll cage, ridiculous gearing and stupid loudness. So that is what the turbo II is going to be for then. Still will see mountain road action, but just paved. Probably take to the road courses and auto crosses.

Fidelity101

12-12-2008, 02:37 PM

so your going with a TII chassis that is going to be bridgeported 4pt NA that will be going into a FB.

Whizbang

12-12-2008, 02:54 PM

so your going with a TII chassis that is going to be bridgeported 4pt NA that will be going into a FB.

The turbo II is getting experimental motors. The FB will get the best engine i can currently produce.

warwickben

12-12-2008, 02:58 PM

thats a good plan

Whizbang

12-12-2008, 03:04 PM

im going to start removing the engine tomorrow. then i can break it all down and see how bad things are.

Whizbang

01-02-2009, 11:48 AM

Well the engine ready to come out, just need a hoist.

TheDriver216

01-02-2009, 02:22 PM

Thats gonna be my issue as well... gonna neeed an engine hoist... tearing it down to get it out is gonna be easy and quick lol...

Fidelity101

01-02-2009, 03:30 PM

I don't have one I just man power it out... kidding

Check your local renter place, I was able to rent one for 25 dollars for a days use.

Whizbang

02-02-2009, 06:29 PM

well since i will not be living in Colorado after this summer (USAF) i still want to run the Pikes Peak hill climb which should be possible since i get 30 days of leave each year. Therefore, i think i might get the Turbo II prepped for the riggers of Pikes Peak. Which would translate well to regular tracks well. No serious off road. Should be a perfect fit.

warwickben

02-02-2011, 09:30 AM

Any new to add man need my fix for rally rx7 info.

I still want to convert my rx7 to awd just can figure out what trans to use or what front axel etc I could use.

Dose any one know if there's a awd car that the whole suspicion setup bolts to the sub frame or most of it. like how a mustang2 is, every thing bolts to it or...if I could find a awd car that has a sub frame like a stock fb has. On thing bolted to the shell is the show towers. The reason I say this is cause I wouldn't have to worry about making all the brackets and locating them for the control arms. I know it wouldn't be as easy as bolting a fc sub frame to a 1st gen but I do have to cut out sections and box my frame rails any way dam rust. Screw it I'll start a thread seeing if I can get help getting pics of awd front end setups. Would be awesome if I could just use a Subaru subframe and trans found a adpater to mount a rotary in a subie so that would help alot.