VW Baja ROTARY install

[Jeff20B]

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[Jeff20B]

The old setup had to go because it consisted of a tall geared bug tranny (3.88 and big tires with a gutless engine = no no) and the engine was a1600 dual port but had a 1500 single port carb adapted to it. It ran out of breath by 4k and had an annoying flat spot just off idle. It only had power between 2k and 3k. Above or below was gutless.

I picked up a 3 rib bus tranny 002 model from a '77 or so. It has the extra mounting ears on top of the bellhousing if you know what I'm talking about. It should have a much better 5.37 or something ratio.
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2918&stc=1&d=1224362328

and a mounting kit
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2919&stc=1&d=1224362368

a KEP adaptor
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2920&stc=1&d=1224362507

and flywheel (used, obviously)
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2921&stc=1&d=1224362711

[Jeff20B]

Getting the tranny in.

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2922&stc=1&d=1224363029

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2923&stc=1&d=1224363029

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http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2926&stc=1&d=1224363029

[Jeff20B]

Building engine

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2927&stc=1&d=1224363319

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2928&stc=1&d=1224363319

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http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2931&stc=1&d=1224363319

[Jeff20B]

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2932&stc=1&d=1224363578

Stock port timing. I rounded the sharp 90° edges and left a rough surface. I can't wait to see how it performs.
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2934&stc=1&d=1224363578

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2935&stc=1&d=1224363578

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2936&stc=1&d=1224363578

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2937&stc=1&d=1224363578

[Jeff20B]

All done.
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2940&stc=1&d=1224364587

Test fitting a spare rear plate and a beehive oil cooler.
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2938&stc=1&d=1224364550

I had to pound the sheet metal in a little.
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2939&stc=1&d=1224364550

Why use a beehive you ask? They work fine if you know what you're doing. Far easier to deal with as well since there is no seperate oil cooler to install, plumb lines, fab cooling fans for it etc.

Ready to install.
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2941&stc=1&d=1224364593

In.
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2942&stc=1&d=1224364598

[djmtsu]

Looking sweet. Can't wait to see a vid!

[TehMonkay]

12A plates with 13B housings?

[Rogue_Wulff]

I'm guessing it's an early 4 port 13B. Knowing Jeff's supply of early engines and parts, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the entire engine was from the mid 70's. I know the rotor housings are vintage 70's, due to the TR ports by the exhaust ports.

[Jeff20B]

Thanks for posting, guys. I like feedback.

Turns out my bus tranny is closer to a '74 year model. It ought to work out fine with a rotary.

The Wulff is almost correct. The only parts that aren't vintage '70s are the side plates and front cover. Dizzy and alt, too. The side plates are nitrided Y castings from an FB and so is the front cover (the OMP is the leaner type but I can jack it open more with a couple washers). The rotor housings are from a delivery van or the Parkway Rotary 26 (a 26 passenger bus in Japan), or possibly from a JDM Cosmo or Luce from perhaps 1975 as far as I could tell from the original parts that made up this engine. I upgraded key areas where I saw fit.

1. Nitrided Y side plates offer less friction/wear/heat/weight.
2. New side seals with around .001" clearance for really tight gas sealing. For naturally aspirated use only (you'd want at least .003" for boosted applications).
3. FC aluminum waterpump housing and aftermarket FB aluminum GMB impeller for maximum weight savings (only recommended with an electric fan because a clutch fan stresses the waterpump housing).
4. '76 Cosmo reversed runner intake manifold for longer primary runners which should equate to more torque. Matching carb with correct air bleeds and fuel jets for good driveability from idle up to 6 or 7k or whatever red line is on a Cosmo.
5. Stock intake port timing for maximum low RPM torque and driveability. All sharp 90° edges and casting flash were smoothed so hopefully it retains enough turbulence at low RPM to keep a strong idle. High RPM total flow should be improved over stock.

One feature of the original engine I kept is the '75-'85 1757 rotating assembly which was the heaviest stock rotor set; perfect for low RPM torque. :) I also kept the exhaust ports stock. They had the late opening later closing port timing of a GSL-SE, which apparently is best for low RPM torque because the delay in opening provides more time for the expanding gasses to push the rotors and shaft around, but supposedly peaks in effectiveness by 4k RPM. Fair enough.

I went with an RX-4 radiator and drilled new stock Mazda thermostat. Two electric fans, one pusher one puller, should cool well enough. They will be installed where space permits allowing as short a rear push bar as possible to reduce 'moment'. It now protrudes just 3 inches more rearward than with the bug engine.

[Jeff20B]

I got the radiator mounts tacked in place.

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2960&stc=1&d=1224536599

[WE3RX7]

This looks like fun! That should make for a great bug engine too, who needs 7-8k on those things, it's going to wheelie enough as it is!

[Jeff20B]

One can only hope. I finished up all the welding yesterday. It's inspection and paint time today.

[PercentSevenC]

Looks like you got the radiator situation figured out nicely. Fuel pump and lines look good, too. I'll have to come over to check it out sometime.

[Jeff20B]

Yeah, everything went in nicely although it took a while to get it that way. I'm better at left brain stuff than all this artistic right brain 'engineering' stuff. :)

The exhaust is done. Next is electrical.

[Jeff20B]

A couple shots of the exhaust. I used a correct 30° collector and all thickwall mild steel pipe from Racing Beat. The two 'hotdogs' are glasspacks. The small one is from a friend's baja and seems to be of better build quality than a typical cherry bomb from the auto parts store. The big one is a Rotary Engineering glasspack that is nearly 20 years old and did a great job quieting my 20B. The small one is over ten years old and quieted his VW powered baja well enough (it can be seen here (http://www.geocities.com/cd23c01/image10.jpg)). The paint is mainly for rust prevention but does look decent. It's a high temp paint. I expect the u-bends to get hottest and help quiet things down as the exchaust gasses change direction; a convenient way to take energy out while not necessarily restricting flow. Velocity should remain high at low RPM for good power from idle up to where all the curves begin to cause restrictions. If this system runs out of breath by 6 or 7 grand, that is just fine.
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3016&stc=1&d=1225053904

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3017&d=1225053912

[StreetRx7]

hmmm very different .. looking good tho..

[PercentSevenC]

Wow, that actually looks really nice.

[rotorhead87]

I'm surprised to hear that your glasspack survived that long on your 20b. Everything looks great. I definitely want to see a video of your car rippin' it up off-road.

[Jeff20B]

I should have been more clear about that. What I should have said was I briefly tried the RE glasspack on the 20B and it quieted it quiet well. Before then it was situated in a dual pipe exhaust system, along with a few other RE glasspacks, on a rotary truck. Some glasspacks close to the engine lost some of their packing while the ones further away survived. This glasspack was in the middle and it survived pretty well (its mate, installed parallel on the other pipe, was not as fortunate and is louder-ish on percent's 7).

I expect it to keep the baja's 13B at a reasonable volume level for a while and I'm counting on the u-bends to take some of the bite out of the exhaust pulses, like how a turbo can tame rotary exhausts allowing the use of less restrictive straight through mufflers like Borla in the cat location close to the engine, without causing a droning or otherwise excessive and unpleasant noise levels, as would occur in NA form if not for 'presilencers' and the like.

When you've heard as many rotaries as I have, you honestly start wanting a quieter system after a while. It sure will be great if the small glasspack survives as well as the big one has so far.

I have a feeling this system will sound decent. I'll have to get a video or something once it's running. Gotta break it in first, of course.

[Phoenix7]

impressive...so, this is the dumb question: How does the bug handle? I assume it will be a cruiser but I've never been in or around a bug, let alone a rotary one.

[WE3RX7]

I'm impatient for this build to finish and it's not even mine, lol.... looking good!

[Jeff20B]

I don't know about a normal bug. This is a baja and certainly doesn't handle as well as a street bug due to being slightly lifted and all that. Also with the added weight in the back, it tends to shift the weight bias rearward a bit. Zenjoe says the rotary weighs 40 pounds more than an air cooled engine. That's all I have to go on, and I know it's probably not very accurate for my setup. I went to great lengths to keep the weight low by using the lightest side plates that were compatible (Y castings), a 2nd gen aluminum waterpump, a 1st gen aluminum water pump impeller (they're both aluminum and probably wouldn't be strong enough with a clutch fan, but I'm using electric so I'm good). The radiator is somewhat heavy(duty) out of an RX-4, but it fits the best and I didn't have to extend the push bar rearward as would have been necessary with a 1st gen radiator and bigger fans. I only added a 3" section to the upper bars to level the push bar because the PO tweaked it upward trying to gain an extra half inch of ground clearance or something. I had to level the bar because it was running into the oil pan lip. I also kept the exhaust short and sweet.

The only thing I didn't bother lightening is the intake manifold. It's just a stock aluminum one with a stock 13B Hitachi carb, so not much weight can be saved by trimming the manifold. I already trimmed another manifold of the same model for my MG Midget 13B project, which will be featured in this section next (you can't wait!). The weight difference is very small compared to the very big effort it took to trim it to fit the small engine bay of the MG. It's not worth it to trim the one for the baja.

Things like ignition coils will probably be mounted on the firewall to keep as much weight as possible away from the extreme edge of the car. I'll also eventually like to get away from the stupid fuel cell inside the car and get a high volume stock style gas tank for the front of the car to help even out the weight balance a bit.

[Jeff20B]

I'm having a little trouble mounting the coils. I could mount them like Zenjoe on top of the engine, or on the side firewall, but it's kinda flimsy there. So far I've mounted a single coil holder on the engine for trailing, and I've got two other coils together in a double mount from an FB (these are for DLIDFIS). Where and how should I mount them?

I did have success installing both cooling fans on the radiator and test running them. They both blow the correct direction now (that's kind of important) so the next step is installing the temp sensing bulb of the thermocouple/thermostatic switch to turn the fans on and off. I should probably use a relay because it can handle 30 amps while the thermoswitch is only rated for 16.

[Jeff20B]

And each fuse in each fan's fuse holder is rated for 20amps. It's not like each fan will consume a full 20 amps each, but they do spike right as they turn on.

I got the coils mounted as best as I could to ther side firewall using an RX-4 coil holder backing plate and FB front plate. Also made an ignitor heat sink plate and got it installed up and out of the way. Then I started on the wires. The driver's side of the bay is complete (that's the intake/exhaust side so not many wires). The passenger side is where all the action is. I have to figure out some fan wires, pickup signal wires, alt voltage sensing wire, power wire for the DLIDFIS ignitors and coils, thermoswitch wires, relays for the ignition and fans, headache time.

[WE3RX7]

Its all the little stuff now I'm sure that's holding you up!


Pics when you can :)

[Jeff20B]

I've gotten a bit more work done but took a break when I couldn't figure out where to mount the heater core. Any ideas?

I'll post up more pics when the heater core hoses are routed.

[N.RotaryTech]

Nice job so far.
I like the engine color.

[Jeff20B]

Thanks. I wanted the setup to have good taste. :)

Ok, I've decided that a heater core isn't necessary just to get the engine test fired so I'll just hook up the beehive and rig up a quick rain guard engine cover so I can test run this beast. It's our rainy season here now so that's probably a good idea. I'll grab a few pictures when the hoses are hooked up.

I'll revisit the heater core once I've figured out a good location for it (and experience enough shrinkage to need a heater lol).

[WE3RX7]

What region are you in that its rainy season? Arizona/Utah/New Mexico??

[Jeff20B]

Washington, near Seattle.

[WE3RX7]

Ah - figured it was west. Hopefully you can get this fired up before snow...

[Jeff20B]

Yeah, I need to get this fired up in the next couple days so it can be moved.

[Jeff20B]

Uhg, it didin't want to fire. The engine is too tight and the starter can't crank it fast enough. I tried all my tricks. The radiator turned out to have a leak also. I tried to solder it but I'll just take it to a rad shop.

I now have a few options. I could try a 6 volt starter with a 12V solenoid (they don't last very long), or get another high torque starter like my current one (doesn't make much sense and is costly).

Plus the choke on the carb isn't hooked up so obviously getting a fresh rebuild started on cold mornings could prove to be difficult until it has some miles under its belt. I also can't rip on it until then. If it snows too soon I won't be able to rev it enough to keep from getting stuck.

A better option is to pull the engine and drop it into the GLC since it needs an engine right now and the engine bay is fully compatible. All the mechanical work is complete in the baja so it's just a few bolts to pull it. It would take no time at all. Couple days, really.

[TehMonkay]

Try pull starting the bugger to get it running and warm it up.

[Jeff20B]

I could but I'm not that desperate to get it running with a leaky radiator.

It's not a big deal to pull the engine. Infact this engine was actually in the Cosmo for a while last year for precisely the reasons stated above (to get it broken in etc) but ran out of time and my bro was interested in the Cosmo so I had to put a different engine in it. So I rushed the baja project along and figured I could get away with a fresh rebuild as long as I got it in there and running before the winter. Well, winter is pretty much here now and no runny.

Anyhoo the cut-off point for getting the GLC running is Feb so I have from now till then to come up with an alternative engine for it. Why not use the baja engine in the mean time? That's the part that makes sense to me. So that's most likely what I'm going to do.

I'll get a pic before I pull it in a few days so you can see how the exhaust is routed, wires etc.

[Jeff20B]

Here it is.
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3347&stc=1&d=1227041607

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3348&stc=1&d=1227041612

[WE3RX7]

Ah man - it looks so good in there. You can put a different engine in the GLC!!

[Jeff20B]

The strongest VW starter is unable to start it. I need a loosened up engine. There's one in the white truck...

[Jeff20B]

I found an old loose 6 port FC S4 engine that I can use in the baja until its tight engine is broken in enough to start quickly and easily. :)

[Jeff20B]

I finally made some progress on the baja. I got it back in the garage and had a chance to get started on the FC engine. An auto counterweight is on it and the front 19mm bolt is now snug. It has one of those Atkins aluminum oil pellet things to allow full oil flow to the front rotor bearing at all times. An oil pan and pickup tube are coming up next.

[Fidelity101]

Hey I helped your exhaust question on rx7club, didn't know you were on the board. Now I am glad I got to see the build! I love super beetles, I'm kinda a vw/audi guy too, my other ride is a 99 a4 avant.

[Jeff20B]

Cool, yeah you are, kinda. :)

It turns out the core in the baja's radiator is apparently partially clogged. I pulled it today and gave it a quick rinse. I filled it all the way up with water and let it all drain out. It displayed tell tale signs of a clog. I've seen it before where after you thought all the water was out, you tilt it and some greenish liquid comes out (diluted coolant). You wait a little longer, tilt it and some more greenish liquid. I'll go with a 1st gen rad and mod it where necessary. At least if it gets damaged, I can replace it easily enough. Gotta get creative for how to mounts the fans, though. The core is smaller, leaving less room.

I gotta say I'm feeling relieved that I'm going with a 1st gen rad. I'll mod it in a similar way to the rad in the GLC.

[Fidelity101]

1st gen rx7 or 1st gen beetle?

[Jeff20B]

1st gen beetles came out many decades ago and none of them had radiators, so what do you think? :)

[Fidelity101]

I think I don't know squat about old VWs! :)


dur air cooled, kinda forgot lol.

[TehMonkay]

Hey I helped your exhaust question on rx7club, didn't know you were on the board. Now I am glad I got to see the build! I love super beetles, I'm kinda a vw/audi guy too, my other ride is a 99 a4 avant.

Yeah I got a couple of sciroccos too, some of their stuff is awesome and some of the stuff i see in the vw/audi scene is just absolutely retarded though.

[Fidelity101]

I love my A4 avant, I just wish It wasn't open diff AWD. I wanna give it a rear ATB.

[Jeff20B]

I wonder whether I should keep this thread going.

[need RX7]

I wonder whether I should keep this thread going.

yes. :driving:

[Fidelity101]

Only if your going to add to it.

[asheafer]

Keep it going I want to see what it looks like when its done!