Question about single turbo vacuum diagrams

[speedjunkie]

I posted this on 7club but haven't gotten much help there. A couple people have posted but what they described didn't work. Maybe it's the boost controller, who knows. I wasn't sure where to post this either so I hope it's right.

I finished a single turbo swap about a month ago, and since before that I've been trying to figure out which single turbo vacuum diagram to use. I have an APEX'i AVC-R and I've had the lines hooked up several different ways and nothing seems to work correctly. Here is the thread from 7club...

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=789659

If anyone can help me out, I'd really appreciate it.

BTW this site got HUGE since the last time I was on here, wow. And I think we need a few more vendors HAHA.

[cewrx7r1]

This is how I have my Blitz EBC hooked up after trying another way.
It works perfectly with no spiking.

Pressure source for the EBC unit comes from the rear of the UIM near the map sensor source. You want the two to read equal pressures.

Pressure source for the side of the wastegate and for the solenoid "in" comes from the TB elbow which has been tapped and "Teed". This pressure is closer to the pressure for the EBC and map sensor and less than before the IC.

The solenoid out goes to the top of the WG.

I use a 10lb WG spring and run 11, 13, 15, 16 psi boost as my EBC has four settings.

[speedjunkie]

Thanks Chuck!

On my solenoid is has NC, NO and COM, I assume "in" on yours is NC for me and "out" for you is COM. Does that sound right? I never thought about running the T from near the TB, that's one I haven't tried yet. Should pressure be the same at the front of the UIM (one of the 4 nipples coming off) as it is from the two nipples on the rear (one of which going to the MAP sensor) I can run it from the rear too, I'm just curious. And do you think it would be alright to run the T from one of those nipples on the front near the TB?

Once I replace my second blown turbo gasket I'll try this out, haha.

Oh, I meant to ask you, do you have a line going from a nipple on the turbo to the filler neck? I've been told I need this but to me it looks like it would be a boost leak. And do you have a line going to the fuel atomization nipple? And do you still have the hose and PCV valve between the filler neck and UIM?

[Kane]

On the FD I just finished building - we ran all the crankcase lines to a catch can only. The fuel atomization line went in front of the turbo for a vacuum source only.

The BC (Greddy I presume) looks right; COM goes to the watstegate if I remember correctly; you can get diretions from the Greddy site.

A few things

- the EMS MAP Sensor, BOV Vac Line and BC Pressure sensor should all be after the throttle body; right at the throttle body nipples or close to it; the UIM/LIM nipples I have heard don't give consistant readings.

- The wastegate signal lines and boost only line for the BOV should be after the Turbo but before the Throttle Body.

- The OMP and Fuel Atomization lines should all be vacuum only before the turbo.

- Avoid T-inng the Vacuum source for the BOV and the MAP sensor; we did MAP Sensor; and BC on one line and Boost Gauge on its own, and BOV on its own.


That is all from memory - so take it with a grain of salt.

[speedjunkie]

No the EBC I have is the AVC-R, not the GReddy or Blitz or anything else. The APEX'i directions say to T from the NC port (on the solenoid valve) to the IC piping and side of the wastegate, but that hasn't worked for me, maybe because I've been using the UIM/LIM nipples and it's not getting a consistent reading. I have the BOV vac line going to the front of the UIM next to the throttle body, shouldn't that give the same reading as the rear nipples? And I thought there were only 2 nipples on the rear of the UIM near the throttle body?

Thanks for the input!

[Kane]

I have an 8 - but similar problems; the vacuum signal from those last set of nipples is supposed to be incosistant due to blow-back from the intake stroke of the motor.... I haven't exp it personally; just from my research doing the single turbo on the FD and the turbo on the 8.

The BOV location sounds fine; just don't T into it as it will slow the actuation of the BOV.

As for your BC; I am not sure - I have the Greddy Profec (which has similar solenoid set-up interestingly enough). Normally you want 3 signal lines to the BC; a BOOST ONLY signal (between the turbo outlet and the throttle body; preferably before the IC); a manifold vacuum signal (shows the pressure on the BC screen; used for tuning the thing) and the signal that goes to the wastegate to open it.

If you T from the wastegate and the boost only (IC piping); like run a T fitting or T INTO That area? If you don't T INTO it; blocking that signal line - the BC won't work.

[speedjunkie]

Scratch using the last two nipples on the UIM-check.

For the EBC, I have a solenoid valve and a sensor, 2 lines go to the valve (NC and COM) and one goes from near the MAP sensor nipple to the sensor. Is that what you're talking about?

The way I had it set up is with the line coming from the side of the WG to the T, another line going to the NC port on the solenoid, and the last line going to the IC piping. The way I have it NOW though, I swapped the line going from the WG side to that T, now it is going to the UIM near the TB and just a single line is going straight from the NC port to the IC piping. Know what I mean?

[Kane]

Can you draw a picture or take one? Just to make sure we are saying the same thing.

[speedjunkie]

I'll see what I can do, I'm at work right now though.

[speedjunkie]

Ok, VAC 1 is the way I have it running now. VAC 2 is the way I've interpreted what you and Chuck have said. And Vac is a blank canvas for you all to use to teach me the correct way cause I've screwed up the first 2 haha.

[Kane]

Do you have the Syncronic Wastegate? I am not 100% sure on that part; BUT I think you wanna switch those two WG lines; you want the boost to push the WG open.

Other than that Vac2 looks good to me. Assuming the solenoid is hooked up on the right ports (I don't have the user manual for that).

[speedjunkie]

No, my wastegate is an HKS 44mm. I'm not sure about switching the two on the wastegate though. I've swapped them before and if I remember right it didn't change anything. But hey, it's worth a shot haha. However, that's how all the vacuum diagrams have it.

I had the solenoid hooked up wrong at first, I was using the NO port instead of the NC port.

[speedjunkie]

I haven't gotten the vacuum lines routed to the filter yet, but I moved the one for the BC sensor to the rear of the UIM, along with the one for the boost gauge. The line from the side of the wastegate was already moved to the front of the UIM near the TB already.

So far I've only gotten about 10-13psi when it's set to 15psi.

I've forgotten to mention I don't have some things on the EBC set up, I have it set up according to Rob Robinette's directions, aside from not using .65 (9psi) as the boost setting, but 10 and 15psi on setting A and B respectively.

http://robrobinette.com/boost_avc_r_install.htm

[speedjunkie]

We have also noticed the wastegate is slowly bleeding off before it's supposed to. Does that sound like a familiar problem. I'm obviously no good at how to route vacuum lines lol.

[Whizbang]

just a side thought, it could be that the spring in the WG (which cant fine tune for a given PSI, is running less boost due to altitude and the boost controller is trying to do what it can. So maybe the spring is the issue?

[speedjunkie]

Could be I suppose. But when we had disconnected the hose and ran off just the wastegate spring, it held at 10psi. So who the hell knows lol. I was thinking about getting the 15psi spring, or 14.2 rather.

[speedjunkie]

Well I think I may have figured out the problem. One of the settings in the boost controller allow it to only go up to 14psi, so I switched it to allow it to go above and according to the boost controller I got up to 15.5psi today. According to my boost gauge I only got about 13psi, but my tuner said my boost gauge was off sometimes. I'm not sure why it would be off, especially now since it's reading from near the map sensor.

I also switched the line on the side of the wastegate back to the T going to NC and the IC piping.

[speedjunkie]

Well, now I have a different problem...I'm OVERboosting now hahaha. All I did was mess with some of the boost controller settings, so I'm sure it's not the WG like I thought it was. And I think I might have the vacuum lines routed correctly now, but I can't be sure of that either.

On the setting to allow it to go to 2 bars, I got up to 18psi today, even though I had it set to cut off at 15psi. After I switched it to only get to 1 bars, I STILL got up to 17.5psi. This is getting ridiculous.

Any ideas NOW? lol

[Kane]

Is your BC set up in duty cycle? By raising the sampling rate and lowering the target boost; you shuold be able to get it back down.

[speedjunkie]

Yeah, on the first setting it's set to .7(?) for 10psi and at 25% duty, and the second setting is set to 1.05 for around 15psi and also set for 25% duty. I'm not real clear on how those work though. And you can also decrease duty per gear in each setting if I remember right. I know there is some way to adjust it if you're getting too much in this gear or that one, or if you're getting too little, but I'm trying to remember if it's duty that's being adjusted.

I'm going to try the other gears if I can get a long enough straightaway and see what kind of boost I reach. But what you're saying is like raise the duty from 25% to 45% or so? I don't really want to lower the target boost level but I guess I will if I have to, although I'm not sure that will change much haha.

[Kane]

Rule of thumb (though sometime it seems to be opposite)

1- If boost spikes and then falls off (below target boost); raise Duty Cycle and Target.
2- If boost spike above target and then falls back down to target; lower Duty Cycle.
3- To get the max boost the soonest - raise the start boost pressure (when it starts to open the wastegate) until you get a small spike. Then lower Duty Cycle.

If Boost spikes above taget; then falls below target - raise target and lower duty cycle. If it still won't hold target - then you are out breathing the turbo at that PSI.

[speedjunkie]

Before, it seemed like the WG was bleeding off early, not allowing me to get all the way to full boost. Now it seems like it won't fall off at all, it just seems to keep climbing, but it pauses around 12 to 15psi, then continues up to 17 or 18 as I keep my foot in it.

I'm not sure how to raise the start boost pressure. So I'm kinda between 2 and 3 right now, although it doesn't really fall off at all.

[Kane]

It doesn't falloff at all huh - may still have the WG signal lines messed up; can you try it with the BC set to zero across the board.

[speedjunkie]

Yep, doesn't fall off at all. Which lines are the signal lines, the one to the sensor you mean? Yeah I could shut it off completely and see what happens, but it would just go all the way to 30 or whatever if it was off wouldn't it? Or would it go off the wastegate spring?