s5 turbo stock wastegate question

[FerociousP]

heres the deal:

s5 n/a block with complete stock turbo setup.
boosts 5-6psi max
If I plug the wastegate line it will hit 10 (before I backed off)

would that be a weak wastegate spring??

If so, I was thinking about a boost controller or just replacing the wastegate... my plan was always for 9-10 max. what would be the best way go?

anyone have a spare wastegate actuator?

[TehMonkay]

port the wastegate.

[85rx-7gsl-se]

Monkey, how would porting help? Its already ported which we think is the problem...The stock spring is like 7-8psi, but a 7-8psi spring starts opening earlier to maintain 7-8psi....With a ported wastegate, it takes less actuation to achieve the same wastegate venting so by the time you reach 5-6psi, its already opened as far as a stock gate at 7-8psi.

[TehMonkay]

ahh, read that completely wrong.

Yeah just try another actuator, unfortunately i dont have any of those though.

[85rx-7gsl-se]

No problem man, you just had me really confused lol :rofl:

[Turbo vw]

thers some way you can rig a spring on the out side of the wast gate to make it open sooner IDK a guy on a nother forum had one set up for some sort of bild he was doin but if i was you id just git a new wastgate make ur life a hole lot easer

[Rotary_Rocket_87]

why not just use a boost contoller, manual or electric

[Phoenix7]

I was wondering the same thing. :dunno: I figure the wastegate was faulty since he didn't metion anything about a boost controller.

[FerociousP]

I did mention something about a boost controller... about possibly using one if that was the best alternative...

I'm not using a boost controller and the wastegate is ported.

[85rx-7gsl-se]

There ya go Paul...Making things all confusing like :D

[FerociousP]

no i'm not... people don't pay attention :)

[TehMonkay]

as long as you didnt go too big on the porting, or perhaps you need to adjust the actuator? I think there is an adjusting nut, dont blame me if i'm wrong though.

[FerociousP]

i don't think its a porting problem because when I didn't hook up the wastegate it boosted past 5 easily

[85rx-7gsl-se]

I think you will have this problem with any stock actuator, bigger wastegate porting will cause this regardless IMHO. Get a boost controller :icon_tup:

[TehMonkay]

if he plugs the wastegate line, it should go past 10 no problem, theres something else wrong that a boost controller cant fix.

[FerociousP]

seriously??

I plugged the wastegate and it boosted to 10 before I decided not to go any higher ... like I said in my original post.

[TehMonkay]

Well it's only supposed to hit 7.5PSI stock, what did you expect to happen?

The confusion here lies in the simplicity of the answer.

[FerociousP]

with an open exhaust I expected it to boost creep a little higher than 7, with the ported wastegate I expected that to control that condition. I didn't expect 5-6 psi with a open exhaust.

I was looking for confirmation that it was in fact the wastegate actuator (spring and diaphram part) and would replacing it OR getting a boost controller be the best option, and then hopefully someone would offer a spare actuator or direct me to another option..

its all good, I have... a plan...

I have to replace one of the exhaust gaskets anyway because of a big leak so when I take it all apart i'll give it a good look over and i might have a spare actuator by then...

[85rx-7gsl-se]

I say go with a boost controller.

[TehMonkay]

yeah me too

[djmtsu]

He has a boost controller, it isn't as effective as he thought however......or its broken.

[classicauto]

Simple fix.

Remove all that stuff, install a large 62-1, tail 44 wastegate with 15lb spring. lol
___________
Bust seriously - If the boost controller is hooked into the system, are you sure its plumbed correctly? Are any of the lines leaking?

[Phoenix7]

well, how much are springs? Where can you buy them? Wouldn't it be smart to just replace it than risk it?

[TehMonkay]

Simple fix.

Remove all that stuff, install a large 62-1, tail 44 wastegate with 15lb spring. lol
___________
Bust seriously - If the boost controller is hooked into the system, are you sure its plumbed correctly? Are any of the lines leaking?

lol, yeah, that would be a great solution!

[djmtsu]

A 62-1 on a 6 port turbo? That would be fun for a little while at least.

[85rx-7gsl-se]

What kind of boost controller is Paul running?

[djmtsu]

I believe it is an old school HKS. I don't know what model for sure. It looks to be the same generation as his F-CON though.

[FerociousP]

the boost controller i bought is broke, doesn't work...

and phoenix, the stock spring is not replaceable

[85rx-7gsl-se]

Sad, I would have loved to have an old school HKS BC :(

[Phoenix7]

lol. I never had to replace/fix my wastegate so thanks for the info.

[Boostmaniac]

Omg, monkey please stop.

Your wastegate is working fine from what I have read, the problem you are having is the ported wastegate on top of a 6 port motor. Stock I'd say you are right on the money boost wise, but you may experience a fall off on peak boost higher in the rev range close to redline.... maybe, I am not certain on that though.

It comes down to this, that wastegate is venting to much exhaust, and with no controller, there is no way to stop it. Invest in a good boost controller (you can re-use them on multiple turbo / car setups.)

It'll keep the wastegate shut until it senses max boost, then slowly actuate to maintain the desired boost pressure, something you can't do with the stock turbo setup. Since it is ported, then you shouldn't experience any boost spike, but without a controller, you'll see less boost than you want.

I have two turbo's sitting outside. S4 and S5 if you want pics of the wastegates and the actuators. They either work or they don't 99 percent of the time.

Get yourself a controller, get boosting, and enjoy. :)

-Maniac

[TehMonkay]

Omg, monkey please stop.

Your wastegate is working fine from what I have read, the problem you are having is the ported wastegate on top of a 6 port motor. Stock I'd say you are right on the money boost wise, but you may experience a fall off on peak boost higher in the rev range close to redline.... maybe, I am not certain on that though.

It comes down to this, that wastegate is venting to much exhaust, and with no controller, there is no way to stop it. Invest in a good boost controller (you can re-use them on multiple turbo / car setups.)

It'll keep the wastegate shut until it senses max boost, then slowly actuate to maintain the desired boost pressure, something you can't do with the stock turbo setup. Since it is ported, then you shouldn't experience any boost spike, but without a controller, you'll see less boost than you want.

I have two turbo's sitting outside. S4 and S5 if you want pics of the wastegates and the actuators. They either work or they don't 99 percent of the time.

Get yourself a controller, get boosting, and enjoy. :)

-Maniac

Like i said, the answer was too obvious for me to understand.

[Boostmaniac]

Like i said, the answer was too obvious for me to understand.

I wasn't trying to sound like I was bitching at you, sorry if I came off that way. I was really tired and wasn't really paying attention to what I wrote.

Also worth noting and something I forgot to add.

With a boost controller, it will keep the wastegate closed until desired boost pressure is achieved. The stock system just creeps to 10 (if you didn't port the wastegate that is). So the end result will be a fatter more useable powerband. You'll see quicker spool and a lower RPM positive pressure threshold.

[85rx-7gsl-se]

^Right on BoostManiac, thats why I need a EBC...I hit 10 psi but it takes awhile ie; top of second.

[FerociousP]

thanks maniac thats what I wanted to hear... in your experience what's a good one that isn't going to be too much money for what i'll be using it for (getting 4-5 more psi) ?? I understand I can use it for multiple setups but none of those are in the even remote future... thanks again... should I shy away from MBCs??

[Boostmaniac]

thanks maniac thats what I wanted to hear... in your experience what's a good one that isn't going to be too much money for what i'll be using it for (getting 4-5 more psi) ?? I understand I can use it for multiple setups but none of those are in the even remote future... thanks again... should I shy away from MBCs??

MBC's are awesome if you are on a ramen budget. They have a negative side effect though, they only control the peak pressure. They restrict the wastegate from fully regulating boost a little late. Think of this as a FCD in a way. They fool the wastegate into thinking 10 psi is the stock psi so it just opens a little later.

BUT

There is a side effect that you won't notice until you ride in a car equipped with an EBC. The wastegate still opens a little bit so the transient boost response is still not as fast as it can be, AND you have to fiddle with it to get it set JUST right, meaning multiple times of getting in the car, boosting, getting out and adjusting under the hood (or in the car if you route some vacuum lines into the cabin), boosting some more etc etc. You need to check the boost in a higher gear to make sure it won't creep under high RPM full load past your preset point.

We used one on an FD once to just see how well it worked and we ran into a small (thank god) oopsie. Someone had completely shut the MBC not knowing what it was when it was off the car. We put it back in and boosted in second gear. This car was tuned for 14 - 16 psi, we recorded a full 26 psi on an instantaneous boost spike since the wastegate would not open. He lifted the throttle as fast as he could and we heard a massive explosion. Turns out the Rubber line connected to the BOV had ruptured while trying to vent this pressure and literally blew the BOV off of the piping. It was hanging down by the turbo by the vacuum line. If you get a MBC, just please be careful, we got lucky and he had a fast foot, otherwise it would have been rebuild time.

As for the EBC, anything commonly found will work great on an FC. I always liked the ones using the fuzzy logic to predict spikes and keep the boost steady. I am sure you can find one used somewhere dirt cheap, just make sure to get the instructions for installation and setting it up. Also, be prepared to do Bar conversions if you get one from overseas.

Here are a few on this page you can look at. The prices are high, but they are worth their weight in gold IMHO. They also have features that a MBC just can't do, and that MIGHT mean the difference between flawless boost response and accidental rebuild time.

http://corksport.com/store/category/5pjf/turbo.html

Take your time to research the pro's and con's of each and then make your choice based on your budget / setup. Since I am mostly worried about low end production and a fat useable powerband, I am ALL about the EBC's, but a MBC will also work if you are short on cash for the time being and just need to put some trash talking friends in your rear view. :)

-Maniac

EDIT : what you will be using it for would be perfect either way. I would suggest looking around for a used one with a complete harness and instruction manual. If you need a MBC on the super cheap though, I think I still have my schematics for the Home Depot special. Don't laugh, it really does work. That was the one that nabbed us the 26 psi. It costs about 5 bucks. Just remember the old adage, cheap usually costs more.

[TehMonkay]

Yeah look for a nice use one on a local forum.