Weird Sounds From Transmission Area - Guess what Broke or is BREAKING

[Phoenix7]

I think it's the pilot bearing but the tranny shop I took it to was useless and didn't help (they had the car for 3 days) and I don't know.

1. When you reverse there is a rubbing sound. Fast revolutions so I know it's a small moving part and not the brakes.

2. It only happens when clutch is engaged. if You continue to reverse in gear while disengaged (with the clutch pedal to the floor) the noise stops.

3. During deceleration you hear a high pitched squeal but only between 2500rpms and 4000rpms.

4. At low throttle (about 30% based on SAFC) and ~2700rpms you hear rattling, like bearings flying around.:o11:

5. The noise stopped 3 days ago. It is about to break IMO and I can't trust local tranny shops.

GTUs Tranny, Excedy Stage 1 clutch.

[TehMonkay]

Worn bearings?

[Phoenix7]

which one(s) though? That's what I wanted the tranny shop to find out. It's not the throwout bearing and I think the tranny is fine internally but all they said was to go get my brakes checked.

Pilot bearing is my main theory but now I can't show anyone because the noise stopped!

[josh18_2k]

is this an NA trans?
if so you may just wanna find another and wait for this one to blow up. theyre cheap enough..
i've blown 3 NA trannies on totally stock cars, just decently high mileage (120-150k)
the first one started sounding like a helicopter, and just kept getting worse. after a week of horribly loud helicoptering, i just replaced it. the other two just broek gears, no noise.

regardless, you could try to just replace the throwout bearing. as far as i know there is no pilot bearing (?)
it takes like 3hrs to drop/replace the trans by yourself. not bad

[Phoenix7]

yup this would be NA tranny number 2.5

The thing is that I don't think it's the tranny, it shifts fine and shows no problems at all. I recently replaced the clutch (maybe 20K miles ago?) too but I don't know if the noise means I've been damaging parts in there.

I think I may have to just buy a new clutch and tranny and store it in case this one craps out on me.

[Boostmaniac]

Ok, I think I may know what is going on.

The rattling sound IS bearings that are circulating around, it is common enough on our trannies (at least the TII trannies) and can only be fixed by a rebuild. I wish I had the pics saved so I could them to you, but alas I do not. From what I remember, this issue was no big deal.

As for the other sounds, this EXACT thing happened to me. The tranny died and got stuck in second gear, then got stuck in 2 gears at once (when I break something I try to go the distance). This was the result of a slammed shift while drag racing. My 1st - 2nd syncro literally exploded and left the tranny via blowing a hole in the side. It was gruesome, horrible, and completely awesome all at the same time. It worked for a few months after that but with a whirring sound and other occasional errata.

You can try putting some really heavy gear oil in there to see if it helps a little bit, but at this point, I'd bite the bullet and just get another tranny or do a TII driveline swap since those are a little beefier and can withstand NA abuse.

disclaimer: I could be completely wrong on all of this. I could rebuild a motor blindfolded, rotary and piston, but I have virtually no understanding of how a transmission works other than selector forks and syncro's. I am still completely convinced that automatic transmissions work through the usage of black and heinous magic and no one will convince me otherwise. So take that to heart just in case I am wrong. Who knows, it might run for another 300k miles, but I'd get a spare soon just in case.

Normal pilot bearing failure causes the E-shaft to weld to the input shaft which is super bad news. If you really think that is what is happening, pull the tranny now and replace the pilot bearing or you are probably going to need a new E-shaft.

I hope something here helped.

-Maniac

[N.RotaryTech]

Same thing with my gtu for the past few months. Noises come an go, but everything still works good. About 170k miles on tranny as far as I know.

I'm just gonna wait till it blows. :)

[Phoenix7]

Ok, I think I may know what is going on.

The rattling sound IS bearings that are circulating around, it is common enough on our trannies (at least the TII trannies) and can only be fixed by a rebuild. I wish I had the pics saved so I could them to you, but alas I do not. From what I remember, this issue was no big deal.

As for the other sounds, this EXACT thing happened to me. The tranny died and got stuck in second gear, then got stuck in 2 gears at once (when I break something I try to go the distance). This was the result of a slammed shift while drag racing. My 1st - 2nd syncro literally exploded and left the tranny via blowing a hole in the side. It was gruesome, horrible, and completely awesome all at the same time. It worked for a few months after that but with a whirring sound and other occasional errata.

You can try putting some really heavy gear oil in there to see if it helps a little bit, but at this point, I'd bite the bullet and just get another tranny or do a TII driveline swap since those are a little beefier and can withstand NA abuse.

disclaimer: I could be completely wrong on all of this. I could rebuild a motor blindfolded, rotary and piston, but I have virtually no understanding of how a transmission works other than selector forks and syncro's. I am still completely convinced that automatic transmissions work through the usage of black and heinous magic and no one will convince me otherwise. So take that to heart just in case I am wrong. Who knows, it might run for another 300k miles, but I'd get a spare soon just in case.

Normal pilot bearing failure causes the E-shaft to weld to the input shaft which is super bad news. If you really think that is what is happening, pull the tranny now and replace the pilot bearing or you are probably going to need a new E-shaft.

I hope something here helped.

-Maniac:o15:

Same thing with my gtu for the past few months. Noises come an go, but everything still works good. About 170k miles on tranny as far as I know.

I'm just gonna wait till it blows. :):001_07:

OK, I'll see if I can find a tranny shop to take a look.

[TehMonkay]

You should hear my tranny, sounds like an electric drill at highway speeds.

Still works, for now, lol.

[Phoenix7]

I haven't redlined in a few weeks to ensure longevity. I want to go TII swap but I don't know if it's worth it right now (I'd have to source a bunch of things).

[Boostmaniac]

I haven't redlined in a few weeks to ensure longevity. I want to go TII swap but I don't know if it's worth it right now (I'd have to source a bunch of things).

I wasn't trying to scare you with my previous post lol. Get it looked at.

If it is bad, start sourcing the TII components, you want to anyway and you know it ;)

Not to mention on an NA motor it'll probably last damn near forever if the tranny is in good shape when you pick it up.

Also, never ever EVER tell me you don't redline your motor. Do the right thing and go dancing in the red. If it breaks putting around town, that will suck. But if it breaks in the red while going sideways, well now, that is a truly magnificent story ;)

[Phoenix7]

No worries, it's the worst case scenario. I'm trying to get my TII done first and then we'll fix the NA. Still not redlining though (maybe 6.5K??). I do want a T2 drive train but it's going to cost more than a rebuild and it's still another used tranny.

I don't drift unless I'm doing it in an emergency maneuver so it won't be as magnificent. I don't know how long the tranny/bearings will last so I just have to take it easy (until the TII takes over for DD duty).

[Phoenix7]

It did the deceleration rattle today. Scheduled an appointment with a local tranny shop. We'll see tomorrow.

[Boostmaniac]

No worries, it's the worst case scenario. I'm trying to get my TII done first and then we'll fix the NA. Still not redlining though (maybe 6.5K??). I do want a T2 drive train but it's going to cost more than a rebuild and it's still another used tranny.

I don't drift unless I'm doing it in an emergency maneuver so it won't be as magnificent. I don't know how long the tranny/bearings will last so I just have to take it easy (until the TII takes over for DD duty).

Most of my sideways adventures come from lack of tire grip, but then again I am boosted. I didn't mean drift exactly, just slam the shift home so hard it breaks loose a little when it blows up.

I was also being facetious, just for laughs. ;)

Lemme know what the tranny shop says.

[N.RotaryTech]

Reminds me of something my transmission teacher said when I was in college, about shifting hard, he described the noise as: "BLAMYOW!!!"

weird but funny.

[Phoenix7]

LOL, i HAVEN'T DRIVEN A TURBO 7 IN AGES. It's about time. Dropped the car off a lil bit ago.

[Boostmaniac]

LOL, i HAVEN'T DRIVEN A TURBO 7 IN AGES. It's about time. Dropped the car off a lil bit ago.

Keep me updated, I am REALLY curious about the outcome.

[Phoenix7]

it's BS! THey say it's the exhaust.

So to recap. Car has issues with the clutch/tranny. 1st shop says it's the brakes, 2nd shop says it's the exhaust.

:dunno: what else to do other than just drive it till it breaks and start sourcing TII swap parts.

[Boostmaniac]

Those guys are winners.

[TehMonkay]

Drive up there open header and tell them you think somethings wrong with the exhaust, see what they say.

[Phoenix7]

:lol: i'll be deaf! the NA open header is ear-bleedingly loud!

[wvumtnbkr]

So it does it on decel and reverse only?

If this is the case, I would think it points squarely at the front U-joint! If it is the front U-joint, replace it NOW! If it fails, It will take out the tail shaft of teh tranny and the shifter assembly! (Ask me how I know!)

[kuromi7]

The u-joint again? We had the front one break a couple of years ago and ended in the destruction of my tranny and the shifter hasn't been the same since. I'll have Hassell check this.

Thanks. :)

It's making the noise more today between 2000 and 3000 rpm. It's getting LOUDER!

[Whizbang]

just drive it til it goes nuclear.

[kuromi7]

I was so tired of getting the run-around from the shops I took it to that I'm thinking of doing that, but I don't want one thing to break a whole bunch of other things.

[TehMonkay]

Buy a spare tranny, have it rebuilt, and put it in before you blow this one up.

[kuromi7]

Picking one up this weekend. :001_005:

[Phoenix7]

All we need is a flywheel, starter and new DS.

[Boostmaniac]

Aluminum drive shaft from Mazdatrix is the sex.

[N.RotaryTech]

Thought I'd add some drivetrain info from my experience.
Let me just start at the beginning.

My '89 GTU n/a, It had 145k miles on it when I got it, Nov '05.

A year later (Nov '06) the clutch started slipping in 5th, then 4th, and so on.
I got a $100 e-bay clutch kit, which Ive been warned about later on that those are std's for your drivetrain.

Almost a year after that (Sep '07) my driveshaft (front U-joint) went bad, luckily it didn't explode, just vibration and vibration noise. I replaced it with another used one.

Now (Aug '08) another driveshaft U-joint went bad. Over the weekend, I noticed the vibration & noise (that sounds familiar), thats when I knew it was the driveshaft.
Today Ive replaced it with another used one.

After driving around on it, (btw: no noises) Ive realized what all those noises Ive been hearing before are coming from, the driveshaft.

The noises:
When going forward from a stop, there is a loud "Tink" sound. This is like right after the clutch pedal is out (not pressed).

Some times I have some bucking issues at low rpms cause of the engine, anyway when that happens, I hear a "tinka tinka tinka tinka".

Another noise, when comming to a stop in slow driving, like in traffic or a parking lot, when pressing the clutch pedal, some times there is this horrible noise like "CH CH CH CHU CHU CHUG CHUG CHUG!!!!" maybe not that long.

And another, Im not sure how to describe it, its like a mix between a wering and a squealing or squeaking and maybe a chattering noise, high pitched and fast.
That happens on acceleration and deceleration.

So IMO every noise except that last one makes sense that they are cause by a bad driveshaft.

Even though I have a crappy e-bay clutch, Ive had no problems with it, no slipping or anything like that, and Ive been driving on it daily for near 2 years now.

As far as driveshafts go I need to find a place that can rebuild them, or buy a new one like mentioned above.
I'm going to try to invest in a good driveshaft, so when the one Ive got on there now, goes bad, I can finally replace it with one that will last for a few years or more.

[Phoenix7]

Well, as more time passed I realized that WVUmtnbkr may be right.

The vibrations began on Monday. Slight vibration in the shifter at around 3500RPMS/40mph. It differed than the normal shifter vibrations especially when driving.

Yesterday the vibrations became more "violent" and could feel the whole car shaking at around 40mph and 3500rpms. Today the whole car shook at 65+MPH non-stop. I went to a local driveshaft shop and they want $350 and If I had said yes they "could have everything done by Tuesday."

I've already destroyed one transmission so I don't want the same thing to happen again. I bought the "aftermarket" serviceable DS from Mazdatrix. I ALMOST went with the Aluminum one but it seemed overkill on the NA. I should get the NEW DS tomorrow or Friday and i saved 50 bux over the local shop.

[Phoenix7]

Thought I'd add some drivetrain info from my experience.
Let me just start at the beginning.

My '89 GTU n/a, It had 145k miles on it when I got it, Nov '05.

A year later (Nov '06) the clutch started slipping in 5th, then 4th, and so on.
I got a $100 e-bay clutch kit, which Ive been warned about later on that those are std's for your drivetrain.

Almost a year after that (Sep '07) my driveshaft (front U-joint) went bad, luckily it didn't explode, just vibration and vibration noise. I replaced it with another used one.

Now (Aug '08) another driveshaft U-joint went bad. Over the weekend, I noticed the vibration & noise (that sounds familiar), thats when I knew it was the driveshaft.
Today Ive replaced it with another used one.

After driving around on it, (btw: no noises) Ive realized what all those noises Ive been hearing before are coming from, the driveshaft.

The noises:
When going forward from a stop, there is a loud "Tink" sound. This is like right after the clutch pedal is out (not pressed).

Some times I have some bucking issues at low rpms cause of the engine, anyway when that happens, I hear a "tinka tinka tinka tinka".

Another noise, when comming to a stop in slow driving, like in traffic or a parking lot, when pressing the clutch pedal, some times there is this horrible noise like "CH CH CH CHU CHU CHUG CHUG CHUG!!!!" maybe not that long.

And another, Im not sure how to describe it, its like a mix between a wering and a squealing or squeaking and maybe a chattering noise, high pitched and fast.
That happens on acceleration and deceleration.

So IMO every noise except that last one makes sense that they are cause by a bad driveshaft.

Even though I have a crappy e-bay clutch, Ive had no problems with it, no slipping or anything like that, and Ive been driving on it daily for near 2 years now.

As far as driveshafts go I need to find a place that can rebuild them, or buy a new one like mentioned above.
I'm going to try to invest in a good driveshaft, so when the one Ive got on there now, goes bad, I can finally replace it with one that will last for a few years or more.
:lol: funny how we both posted on the same subject minutes apart!!

I do believe you also are 100% right. Those sound descriptions seem to be similar to our problem!!

[N.RotaryTech]

Good for you that you got a new DS.
Im not in the...department to get a replacement like that...for now.
If ya know what I mean.

Its good that I have a donor car. (sigh)

[Phoenix7]

not good for me. I didn't want to spend the money since I'm still trying to get my TII ready for 7stock!

It needed to be replaced before I did this again though, I shouldn't complain:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/madrx7racer/Our%207s/broken%20stuff/DSC01384.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/madrx7racer/Our%207s/broken%20stuff/ds.jpg

[Phoenix7]

UGH, I just got an email saying that my DS has been picked up by UPS.

Only Problem is that it's being shipped to JOSE. I spelled out my name to the guy on the phone multiple times: HASSELL. He even said: "Oh, I butchered your name" but it was OK because I spelled it out for him 3 times!

Apparently it wasn't enough. Now I have to figure out HOW to get my item. My only hope is that the UPS lady that knows me is working tomorrow or Fri. (whenever the DS arrives).
:beatdeadhorse5:

[Phoenix7]

Well,
I called UPS and had them put it on WILL CALL so I could pick it up in the AM but they said NO. I asked to schedule a specific delivery time, they said NO. I'm irritated but it's ok. I need the damn thing ASAP.

Thank GOD that people are too dumb to do their job right. The UPS guy didn't even ask for ID or signature. Just handed it to me. BTW: I STAYED HOME ALL DAY BECAUSE THE UPS SITE SAID THE DS WAS EN ROUTE AS OF 4AM AND THE BASTARDS SHOWED UP AT 5:20PM.

I rush (slowly so the u-joint doesn't snap) to a local shop and they didn't want to install it. They said they were closing in 30 minutes and they didn't want to help me. So, I missed a whole day of work waiting for the part, and the installers didn't want to do it. Now I'm at work catching up with all my work and I'm fucking pissed.

Now I have to go jack the car up and do it myself :rant:

[TehMonkay]

O_o

You can change a DS out in 30 minutes no problem.

[Phoenix7]

Especially with a lift and air tools! These bastards just didn't want to. I went to them once before for a sway bar link and I left because they wanted 150 bux to torque it on!!!

I went because they were the only ones open over here by work (I HAD to come and take care of the time-sensitive stuff).

:willy_nilly: I'll hopefully get it taken care of tonight or tomorrow AM. Gotta keep driving carefully.

[Boostmaniac]

Good luck man, hope this fixes it.

[Phoenix7]

thanks, looks like it did. I'll follow up in a bit.

[Phoenix7]

Ok, it's been driven on and off for the past 12 hours and all the problems are gone.

No noises at low RPMS in any gear, no more clicking, and no more vibrations. I still have mild transmission noise but I believe it's normal considering it's a franken-tranny I put together. :lol:

Oil Change monday and it should feel like a nice healthy car. Proper maintenance and care will pay off. 210K miles and counting.

[Phoenix7]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/madrx7racer/Our%207s/broken%20stuff/Bad%20U-joint/908054.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/madrx7racer/Our%207s/broken%20stuff/Bad%20U-joint/908047.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/madrx7racer/Our%207s/broken%20stuff/Bad%20U-joint/908046.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/madrx7racer/Our%207s/broken%20stuff/Bad%20U-joint/908028.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/madrx7racer/Our%207s/broken%20stuff/Bad%20U-joint/908024.jpg

there we go.

Hope this helps someone in the future. Thanks to all ou who helped me. I appreciate it!