Compatible Turbo Components

[vex]

For the stock S4/S5 turbos are there any compatible components that can replace the stock?

I'm aware that the compressor housing can be swapped out for another specific housing (as that's how I've received mine), however I do not know the details on it.

Could someone enlighten me as to what components are known to be easily swapped? Also any known accessories that can be swapped on?

Compressor Housing:
Turbine Housing:
Compressor Wheel:
Turbine Wheel:
Oil -AN adapters:
Water -AN adapters:
Thread pitch (of banjo bolts):

[Whizbang]

i don't think i fully understand your question, but are you asking what parts of the turbocharger are swappable from turbochargers from non rx7s?

[vex]

i don't think i fully understand your question, but are you asking what parts of the turbocharger are swappable from turbochargers from non rx7s?

Yes, in a nut shell.

For instance, is there a turbo that has a compatible Turbine housing. Not necessarily improved, but able to bolt up without incident. I ask as my turbine housing has heat fractures beginning to form and I'd like to not waste money/time getting the internal waste gate ported if I'll have to swap out for another turbo when the turbine housing craps on itself (the rest of the turbo is in awesome condition). Instead I'd rather pay 100-300 for a new turbine housing that either doesn't have an internal waste gate (and just go external), or already has an internal waste gate big enough.

There are also other components I'd like be able to put on (-AN oil adapters for instance). However the size/dimensions of the turbo aren't listed for them. They just say GTXX or what not. I think this might be very helpful information to the community in general.

[Whizbang]

just a thought, is the turbine housings sporting the same flanged connection to the rx7 manifold? if not, then i might be a hassle since you would have to either modify or replace the turbo manifold to accommodate.

[vex]

just a thought, is the turbine housings sporting the same flanged connection to the rx7 manifold? if not, then i might be a hassle since you would have to either modify or replace the turbo manifold to accommodate. The turbo manifold is just a T4 flange. I'm already having to construct a new manifold (Turbo-6Port) but I have the T2 turbo from an S4 with a front mount that I picked up dirt cheap. Just would like to have this information out there. I emailed ATP about it and they just said "No --Ted". I'd think the only things I'd have to concern myself beyond what flange type it was would be the different dimensions of the exducer and make sure that there's a tight fit with no interference.

[85rx-7gsl-se]

I would just get a S5 housing and swap it on as they are compatible and thats the only real difference from a S4-S5. The S5 is already twin-port internal and with a little portwork will not boost creep even on modded motors. Fully ported stock-door S4 wastegates suck, mine would hid 20psi fully ported :(

[vex]

I would just get a S5 housing and swap it on as they are compatible and thats the only real difference from a S4-S5. The S5 is already twin-port internal and with a little portwork will not boost creep even on modded motors. Fully ported stock-door S4 wastegates suck, mine would hid 20psi fully ported :(

There still has to be other housings that are compatible. Hell, if they're not compatible with the exducer then couldn't one theorhetically buy a new turbine wheel and housing and put them on? Granted to keep them relatively similar in size to produce the same effeciency would be ideal, but beyond that would you have to get the rotating assembly blueprinted doing that? or can the individual components be blue printed then combined to be balanced? Yes? No?

[djmtsu]

As far as the hotside goes, you are out of luck. The Hitachi turbo and manifold used on FC's are proprietary for the rotary engine. For cold sides, you can build a hybrid using a T04 backplate, T04 60 trim compressor housing and wheel.

[vex]

As far as the hotside goes, you are out of luck. The Hitachi turbo and manifold used on FC's are proprietary for the rotary engine. For cold sides, you can build a hybrid using a T04 backplate, T04 60 trim compressor housing and wheel.

I guess that means one couldn't retrieve the dimensions from the exducer and see if they match any other aftermarket (garret, turbonetics, etc) hotside huh?... Bummer. Okay, so the hotside is out of luck, and the compressor side can actually be modified to handle other trims.

What about oil flanges?

[RETed]

The turbine (flange) is proprietary to the application.
Almost everything else is based on a Garrett T3 / T04 turbo.
So all the little bits are usually swappable.


-Ted

[vex]

Thanks Ted!

Just for clarification: If i'm building a manifold from scratch I can use a T04 hotside and build around that flange? Or it's still a no-go because of the exducer?

[djmtsu]

Ted said essentially the same thing I did. As far as building a custom manifold, are you wanting to use this manifold for a stock turbo, or a T04 turbo? Like what was said earlier, the foot print on the manifold is different between a T04 and the Hitachi, so it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

I am not getting it for some reason.

[vex]

Ted said essentially the same thing I did. As far as building a custom manifold, are you wanting to use this manifold for a stock turbo, or a T04 turbo? Like what was said earlier, the foot print on the manifold is different between a T04 and the Hitachi, so it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

I am not getting it for some reason.

Alright, I'll try to be clear on what I have and what I'm trying to accomplish. The turbo I have is a stock S4 Turbo with a different compressor housing on it. I do not have the turbo in front of me, but I do have some pictures on the net of it. Let me get a few for everyone.

Here's the condition of the hotside:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o285/lax-rotor/Turbo/IMG_0060.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o285/lax-rotor/Turbo/IMG_0059.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o285/lax-rotor/Turbo/IMG_0058.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o285/lax-rotor/Turbo/IMG_0057.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o285/lax-rotor/Turbo/IMG_0056.jpg
Since the rest of the turbo is 100% mechanically i'd like to just replace the hotside with a compatible hotside. This is for a 6Port Turbo so I won't need to limit myself to the flange of the Stocker. I am worried about is the turbine wheel hitting the aftermarket Turbine housing and thereby destroying the turbo. If the only difference, or the only reason it won't work is the mating flange to the manifold I'm not concerned about it. Just for comparison here's the rest of the turbo (it already came with the garret compressor housing and the manifold, which although nice, won't really work in my application):
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o285/lax-rotor/Parts/IMG_0023.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o285/lax-rotor/Parts/IMG_0020.jpg
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o285/lax-rotor/Parts/IMG_0019.jpg

[85rx-7gsl-se]

S5 hotside seems to be the only reasonable choice here....

[djmtsu]

Get an S5 hotside and exducer wheel. Should work out well for you. Or, since you have the hybrid parts, but a blown T4 and rebuild it using some of the parts from the hybrod turbo and go full T04 (since you are making a custom manifold anyway).

[RETed]

Mating the turbine wheel to the turbine housing is crucial...
Too much space, and the exhaust gases just bypass the wheel.
Too little space, and you get contact.
The Hitachi HT-18 turbine wheel is not a standard Garrett wheel trim.
Basically, it's not going to work if you're trying to stuff a Garrett turbine housing onto the stock Hitachi CHRA.

Dude, I dunno why you're so stubborn on doing it this way...
Good, used S4 turbos (i.e.turbine housings) are almost a dime a dozen.
Getting a better replacement turbine housing is easy and cheap.

If you insist on a T4 turbine flange, why not just upgrade to a full T4 turbo?
Deals can be found on good, used T4 turbos all over the place.

I agree...I don't get it either.


-Ted

[85rx-7gsl-se]

S4 and S5 turbine wheels are interchangeable according to Ted :)

[RETed]

S4 and S5 turbine wheels are interchangeable according to Ted :)

Yep!

Let's see if we can eliminate the confusion...

Compressor wheels are identical.
Turbine wheels (and shaft) are identical.
Center housings are identical.
[The above all make up the CHRA (center housing and rotating assembly) - they are all identical.]
The compressor housings are identical.
The oil inlet / supply pipes are identical.
The water / coolant inlet / supply pipes are identical.
The water / coolant discharge / drain pipes are identical.

The turbine *housings* are different.
The oil discharge / drain pipes are different.
(Obviously, the turbo exhaust manifolds are different.)
The vacuum pipes on the S5 turbo compressor housing has a bleed for the boost control solenoid; the S4 turbo has no such thing - you can just plug this bleed, or remove (or bypass) the metal pipes and connect the vacuum fitting from the top of the compressor housing to the wastegate actuator.

Thus, to retrofit an S5 turbo onto an S4 13BT motor, you need to:
1) Use the S5 turbo exhaust manifold
2) Use the S5 turbo
3) Remove S5 turbo oil drain pipe and swap with an S4 oil drain pipe
4) Do something about the S5 boost control bleed

To convert an S4 turbo to use the S5 turbine housing + S5 turbo exhaust manifold onto your S4 13BT:
1) Use the S5 turbo exhaust manifold
2) Remove S4 turbine housing and swap in the S5 turbine housing
3) Loosen compressor housing and reclock to the proper position

Now, as I mentioned before, the Hitachi (HT-18) is based on Garrett turbo models.
All smaller internal parts are identical to Garrett T3 / T04 part, which include:
* carbon (compressor) seal
* Thrust bearing
* oil journal bearings x2
* snap-ring clips to retain above oil journal bearings x4, 2 per bearing
* turbine piston compression ring
This is why you can order a Garrett T3 / T04 "rebuild" kit to rebuild your Hitachi (HT-18) turbo.

The Hitachi HT-18 uses proprietary turbine and compressor wheels.
This means that the specs do not match any other (i.e. Garrett) turbine or compressor wheel specs.
This is why you cannot slap on a Garrett turbo housing onto the Hitachi HT-18 CHRA and expect everything to work.

Hope this helps!


-Ted

[vex]

Yep!

Let's see if we can eliminate the confusion...

Compressor wheels are identical.
Turbine wheels (and shaft) are identical.
Center housings are identical.
[The above all make up the CHRA (center housing and rotating assembly) - they are all identical.]
The compressor housings are identical.
The oil inlet / supply pipes are identical.
The water / coolant inlet / supply pipes are identical.
The water / coolant discharge / drain pipes are identical.

The turbine *housings* are different.
The oil discharge / drain pipes are different.
(Obviously, the turbo exhaust manifolds are different.)
The vacuum pipes on the S5 turbo compressor housing has a bleed for the boost control solenoid; the S4 turbo has no such thing - you can just plug this bleed, or remove (or bypass) the metal pipes and connect the vacuum fitting from the top of the compressor housing to the wastegate actuator.

Thus, to retrofit an S5 turbo onto an S4 13BT motor, you need to:
1) Use the S5 turbo exhaust manifold
2) Use the S5 turbo
3) Remove S5 turbo oil drain pipe and swap with an S4 oil drain pipe
4) Do something about the S5 boost control bleed

To convert an S4 turbo to use the S5 turbine housing + S5 turbo exhaust manifold onto your S4 13BT:
1) Use the S5 turbo exhaust manifold
2) Remove S4 turbine housing and swap in the S5 turbine housing
3) Loosen compressor housing and reclock to the proper position

Now, as I mentioned before, the Hitachi (HT-18) is based on Garrett turbo models.
All smaller internal parts are identical to Garrett T3 / T04 part, which include:
* carbon (compressor) seal
* Thrust bearing
* oil journal bearings x2
* snap-ring clips to retain above oil journal bearings x4, 2 per bearing
* turbine piston compression ring
This is why you can order a Garrett T3 / T04 "rebuild" kit to rebuild your Hitachi (HT-18) turbo.

The Hitachi HT-18 uses proprietary turbine and compressor wheels.
This means that the specs do not match any other (i.e. Garrett) turbine or compressor wheel specs.
This is why you cannot slap on a Garrett turbo housing onto the Hitachi HT-18 CHRA and expect everything to work.

Hope this helps!


-Ted

Thanks Ted, that cures up all the confusion I was having, sorry for the big redundancy trip. I'll keep my eyes open for a T3/T04 turbo to do the swapping/rebuild on as well as looking for better used turbine housings for the HT-18, see which one I come up with first.

[classicauto]

Yeah you'll need to do that anyways because if you're turboing your N/A and you're using the N/A lower intake - the stock turbo and manifold won't fit.

[vex]

Yeah you'll need to do that anyways because if you're turboing your N/A and you're using the N/A lower intake - the stock turbo and manifold won't fit.

I didn't have a stock turbo manifold to begin with.