Another starting issue...

[Herblenny]

Man, I'm getting pretty sick of this car!!!

I'm starting to have starting issue again.

When starting the in the morning, the engine will spin over but doesn't catch/fire. After about 5-10 seconds, it will catch and idle. Well, this issue has gotten worse and now when engine fires up, the idle will hunt and rpm will drop and just die.

When the engine is warm, car usually starts fine. But now this has gotten slightly worse over past 7 days.

I've tried with FD sparks and first installed, it cranked right up. But as I started to drive around and such, the problem increased. I just can't seem to figure out whats wrong.. The coils are less then 5k miles (3 months old), Wires are also 3 months old, Sparks have less than 5K (3.5 months old), and HKS twin power didn't make much of a difference.

Personally, what I know about Rotaries, I don't think its the short block as it has power and idles fine when it starts. I feel like its something to do with the computer or ignition system..

Anyone who has an idea about this, I would greatly appreciate it.. Or help me troubleshoot.

[I8U]

Have the PCM checked out by the dealer...mine went bad a few months when I had all the same issues you are now having.

[Herblenny]

Hmm.. Well, I'm hoping to take it in tomorrow morning or something this week..

[Herblenny]

Well, I took the car apart after work today and I think I found few little issues..

One I found that the screws holding the Map sensor to the intake was loose. The plastic was stripped and I think air was leaking in. I also noticed that the O ring was kind of bad. I got a larger screw and when bolted in, It made a difference in start up. But the idle was still shitty.

I'm still taking the car to the dealership in the morning.. I guess I'll let them take a look and see what they tell me... I have some new sparks coming in!

[Herblenny]

Brought the car into Trussville Mazda.. Got a loaner Mazda 6 and its pretty damn comfy!

I talked to the rotary tech and mentioned to him what I did.. He's going to plug in the computer and going to let me know today!

[My5ABaby]

Mazda 6's rock. :D

[I8U]

In what world!?!

[My5ABaby]

In what world!?!
In the sedan world. :coolgleamA:

[SPICcnmFD]

Thats what I got, a red, with cloth interior, auto with about 3k on it. It actually rode better than my MS6, but that was pretty much all I liked about it more.

[Phoenix7]

In the fwd sedan world. :coolgleamA:
fixxored:driving:
It might be a great grocery getter. What's the MPG?

Also, looks like herb needs another car.

[Herblenny]

I just got a call back from Trussville Mazda.. They said the fuel pump might be bad... So, they are ordering one and install it tomorrow.. even though i could do that, I prefer not to touch the 8 for awhile:)

And I get to keep the 6 for another day!! Yeah!! LOL!

[Phoenix7]

damn, I don't trust dealerships. You're documenting all the things that they say can be wrong so at least we'll know in the end.

[My5ABaby]

Thats what I got, a red, with cloth interior, auto with about 3k on it. It actually rode better than my MS6, but that was pretty much all I liked about it more.
Auto's suck. :) My brother has the 4cyl but auto and mines manual... mine rocks his all over the road. The MS6 looks great, but I already have a sports car so I figured I'd get something I could haul a couple things in and get great gas mileage.

fixxored:driving:
It might be a great grocery getter. What's the MPG?

Also, looks like herb needs another car.
Like I said, it's a good sedan. By that, yeah, it's a great grocery getter and all around car. I get about 29-30 combined mpg in the 4cyl manual.

[Phoenix7]

30 mpg isn't bad at all. Bet you're loving it right now.

[blwnrtr93]

The wife and I have been loving ours for the last 2.5 years.

[My5ABaby]

Yeah, it's great. I've put on about 10,500 miles in 8 months. I've had a few small hiccups, but nothing major.

[Herblenny]

I been driving it for 36 hours now.. LOL! Its not bad. But it does make me miss my 8, when it was running great! I'm hoping they will get it fix soon:)

[Whizbang]

ill be curious if the dealership guesses correctly.

[Phoenix7]

lol, i hope they're not guessing. THey should have the most up-to-date diagnostics tools to help them pinpoint issues fairly fast, right?

[Whizbang]

its the "might" be bad thing that gets me.

Plus my friend worked at the local Vw / Mazda dealership. They used to call me about Rx7s, like "where is the EGR" :squint:

[Herblenny]

They guy at Trussville Mazda who's working on my car seem to know his stuff.

I explained what he did and we talked about it couple of times. Unlike some other mechanics, he and I actually talked about it and he made sense.

I initially thought it was ignition issues and hence changed everything!! I never thought that it would be fuel related as when I'm on the road, no issues at all. Even at High load such as HIGH RPM, High speed (on the way to the dealership, I hit 110 on 5th gear). So, for that reason, I didn't think it would be fuel system.

What the mechanic did was he tested all the common stuff I already checked.. like MAF, etc.. When He check the fuel pressure at idle, it was almost 1/3 lower than recommended... and it wasn't holding pressure. Apparently, which I didn't know, the fuel pump is like the FD pump, dual stage pump. First stage, the pump will supply during startup/idle and both state will turn on at higher load. I guess the first stage to build pressure for idle wasn't happening.. hence horrible start or longer start.

Anyhow, tech's reasoning makes sense to me as I've seen and experienced FD's with bad fuel pressure. I feel kind of stupid, I didn't think to check the fuel pressure.. but Of course, I don't even know how to check that on the 8... If it was FD, NO problem:) In some ways, FD is easier.

[SPICcnmFD]

Auto's suck. :) My brother has the 4cyl but auto and mines manual... mine rocks his all over the road. The MS6 looks great, but I already have a sports car so I figured I'd get something I could haul a couple things in and get great gas mileage.

I wasn't impressed with the auto at all. It wouldn't stay in gear when I'd used the bump shift crap, it would either shift up or down so it seemed pretty worthless to me.

That's the main reason I got the MS6, cheaper(cause they never brought sticker price), 4-door, has good power for a sedan, 6-speed, loaded, gets 25-27mpg to/from work depending on how I drive it. I didn't get it for performance, I just figured if I need to get a 4-door I might as well get one thats kinda peppy. I'd much rather have a BMW 3-series but for the price of a MS6 it's hard to find a car that offers as much as it does.

[SPICcnmFD]

So did they get it fixed?? Or did you get back and plan on doing it yourself??

[Herblenny]

The part didn't come in and they didn't install it. I could do the fuel pump but I figure since they gave me a loaner and all, I was just going to let them do it... and also if that doesn't fix it then its their problem still:)

[Phoenix7]

They guy at Trussville Mazda who's working on my car seem to know his stuff.

I explained what he did and we talked about it couple of times. Unlike some other mechanics, he and I actually talked about it and he made sense.

I initially thought it was ignition issues and hence changed everything!! I never thought that it would be fuel related as when I'm on the road, no issues at all. Even at High load such as HIGH RPM, High speed (on the way to the dealership, I hit 110 on 5th gear). So, for that reason, I didn't think it would be fuel system.

What the mechanic did was he tested all the common stuff I already checked.. like MAF, etc.. When He check the fuel pressure at idle, it was almost 1/3 lower than recommended... and it wasn't holding pressure. Apparently, which I didn't know, the fuel pump is like the FD pump, dual stage pump. First stage, the pump will supply during startup/idle and both state will turn on at higher load. I guess the first stage to build pressure for idle wasn't happening.. hence horrible start or longer start.

Anyhow, tech's reasoning makes sense to me as I've seen and experienced FD's with bad fuel pressure. I feel kind of stupid, I didn't think to check the fuel pressure.. but Of course, I don't even know how to check that on the 8... If it was FD, NO problem:) In some ways, FD is easier.SOUNDS GOOD.

[Herblenny]

Just got a call that the car's ready to be picked up!

[fikren]

what exactly did they do?? I know you said the fp was messed up but what was the fix, new pump/filter or was it something else like a relay or something?

[Herblenny]

Fix was the new fuel pump assembly.. which includes the filter..

This is my guess.... I put premium but I've been trying to save few bucks and put some cheap premium gas (10% EtOH) from Raceway etc..

On my way back from Florida few weeks ago, my car died bucked on the interstate. At first I thought the tank design.. but now I see that it was in fact the fuel pump. I've also heard that the 10% EtOH is causing some issues for cars as its cleaning the gas station sludge in their tank and filling up your car tank and causing blockage and restricting the fuel pumps flow and some say could damage the pump (not 100% on this). I know state of AL is going to start inspecting gas stations about this stuff..

Anyhow, car seems to be doing well.. I'm going to wait til tomorrow morning to see how it start.. I've always had cold start issue so that's my final testing:)

[fikren]

Fix was the new fuel pump assembly.. which includes the filter..

This is my guess.... I put premium but I've been trying to save few bucks and put some cheap premium gas (10% EtOH) from Raceway etc..

On my way back from Florida few weeks ago, my car died bucked on the interstate. At first I thought the tank design.. but now I see that it was in fact the fuel pump. I've also heard that the 10% EtOH is causing some issues for cars as its cleaning the gas station sludge in their tank and filling up your car tank and causing blockage and restricting the fuel pumps flow and some say could damage the pump (not 100% on this). I know state of AL is going to start inspecting gas stations about this stuff..

Anyhow, car seems to be doing well.. I'm going to wait til tomorrow morning to see how it start.. I've always had cold start issue so that's my final testing:)
I've been curious myself about the 10% etoh mix and if it potentially could cause any problems in cars like the 8 that need premium. I have not seen any gas station around here, though, that doesn't have it mixed in. Hopefully that will solve your problem. If you were having pressure issues especially at cold start where its supposed to be pushing more I could see where that would have been the problem.

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[Phoenix7]

it wasn't clogged though, right?

[Herblenny]

I'm not sure if it was clogged or not.. I'm going to email the tech and see what he says.. I didn't get to see the pump and also I didn't ask for it... I should of.

I just drove to ATL and back and the car did great!!! Started it right up cold and drove perfect!! Just in case, I'm only going to put BP, Shell, and Chevron from now on!