port work/first rebuild [Archive]

sk8world

06-09-2008, 02:19 PM

So I blew a motor a month back and decided to do this one myself. I learned a ton after the second iron and went back over the first to match and clean up better. Its taken 12-14 hours so far and I still have the center section to do. I hope to put this back together in a few weeks. This is a pineapple med/Lrg port. Any thoughts on my porting?

sk8world

06-11-2008, 12:25 AM

no comments? well here is a good one... I needed another housing and I bought a good short block to source 1 but both were 100% perfect! woo hoo1 Anyway I have broken down a few motors before but this one was a bitch! I started last night and spent 2-3 hours on the e shaft bolt alone.. No luck. this morning I put the block on the ground and used a 2 foot breaker bar to hold the flywheel nut and help wedge the block from lifting. Put another breaker on the front with a 4 foot pipe over it and .... no luck., I took it to a friends shop and put a 600lb gun on it .. no luck. He went and got another gun (shop beside his) 1000ft lbs and no luck! I brought the block back to the other shop and tried his huge compresor and the 1000lbs ft gun.. no luck! I was set to go home and cut it off myself and waste the front and eshaft. the guy asked if I wanted him to heat it up with his torch and then try again.. That did it but still was hard to come out.. Crazy!

85rx-7gsl-se

06-11-2008, 12:30 AM

Glad you got it out, but the front bolt and rear nut can be such a bitch to get off.

-xlr8planet-

06-11-2008, 06:02 AM

that porting looks really good

what tools are you using?

sk8world

06-11-2008, 11:11 AM

that porting looks really good

what tools are you using?

Using a mini air grinder (uses 1/8th bits) Got it a harbor freght for $30.. Makes the job very nice. Its not much bigger than a sharpie. I am using many differant bits from grinder in drums, cones and ball to carbite bits, sand drums, green polishing bits in many shapes.

AzEKnightz

06-21-2008, 05:01 PM

David Jerome

06-21-2008, 06:17 PM

sk8world

06-23-2008, 05:40 PM

Looks great, on the 3rd picture near the closing edge of the port(bottom in your picture but in reality the top of the port), look at where the runner for the port transitions. Grind as much of that away as possible to make a smooth transition for the air flow. Also "back cut" the opening edge(long edge) of the port by making it flow smooth with the runner. While doing this make sure not to let the porting tool hit near the oil control ring path on accident and cut into it.

It really looks great honestly, sorry I didnt reply sooner I missed this thread.

David

I did back cut the opening edge, I could take of a tad more but not much. The pic is angled to showthe back cut. I think that is what makes the lower are (closing edge) apear to need more taking away, although more was removed later. Believe me, I did not port these the smartest way. I totally finished one, started the other and discovered many areas that needed work only to go back and forth remove more and more. I will post the final pics... The hardest area for me is the bowl area. Trying to get a nice clean finish takes so long. Any idea's? I was using a polishing (green) round stone that took forever... Maybe 4-5 stones and 2 hours on each plate. Also the center plate is going to be fun port matching it to a RE mani. Mucho to remove.....

sk8world

06-23-2008, 05:49 PM

you mind sharing the info of all the bits and stuff that you are using to port the engine? I am planning to rebuild my first engine and will be doing the porting myself also =) Let me know please, thanks.

-AzeKnightz

I anwsered that right above your post? If you need additional info let me know. I used 1/8th mini die grinder from harbor freight .I bought a 8 piece carbide kit, the rest is many differant grinders and drums. Know that I know what I like to use it would be easier. In fact then grinder balls, cones and drums I used harbor freight had them in a 5 piece kit on sale for .89 cents. I was buying them in single pieces from a hobby shop for $3 each. The carbide bits are pricey $100 +/- for the kit I bought. Then you will want 80 and 120 small and large sanding drums. 220, 400, 600 sanding paper, 3-1 oil, saftey glasses, a few masks, nitride gloves, lots of time and a calm hand. If you have a bad plate or housing practice on it first.

There is a lot of good info on nopistons.com site about port work. Judge Ito gives some good advice along with a few other respected rotory guys.

David Jerome

06-24-2008, 05:53 PM

I did back cut the opening edge, I could take of a tad more but not much. The pic is angled to showthe back cut. I think that is what makes the lower are (closing edge) apear to need more taking away, although more was removed later. Believe me, I did not port these the smartest way. I totally finished one, started the other and discovered many areas that needed work only to go back and forth remove more and more. I will post the final pics... The hardest area for me is the bowl area. Trying to get a nice clean finish takes so long. Any idea's? I was using a polishing (green) round stone that took forever... Maybe 4-5 stones and 2 hours on each plate. Also the center plate is going to be fun port matching it to a RE mani. Mucho to remove.....

I dont take the bowl down past a normal orange sanding stone, you can really change the final texture by the pressure you apply, I dont believe it really smoothing stuff out to the polished level, mazda doesnt do it with the renesis and if I remember correctly even have what they call the "Anti Wet" port on the renesis to help with fuel atomization.

sk8world

06-26-2008, 12:31 AM

I dont take the bowl down past a normal orange sanding stone, you can really change the final texture by the pressure you apply, I dont believe it really smoothing stuff out to the polished level, mazda doesnt do it with the renesis and if I remember correctly even have what they call the "Anti Wet" port on the renesis to help with fuel atomization.

yeah, I read the pros and cons on both a tad rough texture and smooth polish finish.. Well see how it goes....

I have a few more issues I have to figure out if anyone has the anwser's on here that would be great...

When running a RE mani can and do some run the REW TB? or best to run the RE? It has the linkage on the wrong side and the TB sensor is differant..

The fuel rail is differant on the RE.. Do shops sell the afftermarket rails for this? And what about the mounting points for the rail, the are on the top...

I feel this mani and port work shouldflow a good bit more air cant wait to put it on the dyno to see if it ws all worth it..LOL

Herblenny

06-26-2008, 12:24 PM

Mike,

I'll be running RE manifolds on my Blk FD. I've actually designed a manifold adaptor to use REW TB with the RE manifold. Also KG parts make top fed rail for the RE... Thats what I'm running (1600s and 850s). I been lazy and didn't announce the adaptor.. But if you are interested, I could sell you one. Its going to be expensive though ($350-400 Most of it is the machine work and not for me)... but at the same time you could keep all your IC piping the same... Also, it would increase the air being held after TB... Some say this will increase the lower end of the engine.. Who knows.. But shouldn't make too much of a difference...

Let me know.. I'll mate it up and take some pics..

sk8world

06-26-2008, 03:46 PM

Thanks Phil.. Post up pics. ..

HAve you heard guys opening the re maini's up and cleaning them out? Cutting them length wise open....??

sk8world

06-26-2008, 03:49 PM

Why do you need an adapter? I was just going to expoxy or weld the lowwer area closed. All else lines up perect. Well the ;linkage is a tad close to plenum..

Post pics please

sk8world

06-26-2008, 04:47 PM

Here is what I am talking about...

Herblenny

06-26-2008, 04:53 PM

Mike,

Check out this thread.. I took some pics and did a comparison between REW, RE, and 20B.

http://rotarycarclub.com/showthread.php?t=14

My goal of an adapter is to use stock set up such as oil filler neck, coil location (which isn't an issue for you), Throttle cable, wiring, greddy elbow, min. IC modification, etc.

Also, with the adapter, I could easily go from RE to 20B as they share VERY similar specs.

sk8world

06-26-2008, 06:17 PM

Yeah, I remember those pics. I am interested in the adapter. Post some pics....

Posted by Chrispeed:

TB sizes.
13B-RE.... All 3 X 45mm
13B-REW/20B-RE.... Prim 1 X 45mm
Sec 2 X 50mm
All three have the same manifold bolt pattern but fitment will have some issues.
There's an open cavity on the bottom of the RE intake manifolds for the BAC valve passage that the FD's TB won't cover. Some use epoxy to fill in that area if not using the BAC valve.
Also the TB elbow for the FD and RE are not interchangeable.

Herblenny

06-26-2008, 10:20 PM

I'll take some pics this weekend..

My adapter will cover up the BAC valve passge and will mate with FD TB perfectly!!

This way you could keep most of FD wiring harnesses such as TPS. Only thing you might have to relocate is the Air temp.. Which I think you already done that.

sk8world

06-27-2008, 12:33 AM

great.. Waiting for pics..
Phil, if you talk w/ Luis see if my center section is ready? Thanks,

Herblenny

06-27-2008, 02:07 PM

sk8world

06-27-2008, 03:39 PM

He said he's not done.. He said his balancer is damaged and unable to completely balance your stuff. He said it would be little bit longer.

I'll take some pics tomorrow as if the weather is bad, All I'll be doing is working on my engine(s).

I just got off the phone with Luis.. He droped a gauge and had to order another. I just have to clean up everything and its ready to go back together. Need to order seals and such now...

busted7

07-01-2008, 08:02 PM

Looking great Mike glad to see you getting closer and good luck!

sk8world

07-02-2008, 01:13 AM

Thanks, But dont let me fool you... I just finished spending another 2.5 hours porting and still have another night of porting to do. I need to order my gaskets, seals, another fuel pump, wastegate, RE fuel rail, send inj's of for cleaning, do some rewiring on harness, and waiing to here from Phil about an adapter for RE mani to REW TB. thats it..LOL

Herblenny

07-02-2008, 09:13 AM

Opps... Totally forgot about that.. I'll try to remember tonight and take some pics..

I been having problems with the 8 and totally forgotten about taking pics. Also email me instead as I don't check this thread that often.

PHIL

Herblenny

07-03-2008, 07:10 AM

Mike,

Here are few pics of the adapter.

http://rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1886&stc=1&d=1215086876

http://rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1887&stc=1&d=1215086882

http://rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1888&stc=1&d=1215086887

http://rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1889&stc=1&d=1215086892

As you could see, it bring the length of the UIM to the same length of REW UIM. THis should clear oil filler neck and use IC pipings for REW. Also, be able to use the REW TB, which means could use the Greddy elbow.

lt1_fd3s

07-03-2008, 07:32 AM

sorry to thread hi-jack for a moment, but phil, you make and sell the adapters? :) if so, then i'll want to find me an RE manifold :)

Herblenny

07-03-2008, 11:52 AM

That's the plan of designing that adaptor.. to sell:) I won't be making much.. And whatever I make from it, it would go toward this forum...

Its going to be around 400 a piece unless we get a TON of orders... as its going to take a quite of bit of machining..

Good thing about this is you get to use all REW stuff.. 20B TB and REW is pretty much has the same spec. Except 20B, you have to use 20B TPS. This way, you could keep everything the same:)

I'm also planning to use this on FD/20B swap. Did my calculation and everything should fit and make the conversion simpler.. and still use FD TPS and TB.

lt1_fd3s

07-03-2008, 12:25 PM

nice...look forward to seeing ur project phil...and sorry for the short thread hi-jack sk8world

sk8world

07-03-2008, 02:58 PM

great looking work.... Pm me or post up and let me know how long to get one.

sk8world

07-03-2008, 11:52 PM

So here are my final ports. Pics show Mine, BDC's and a stock one.

sk8world

07-03-2008, 11:55 PM

couple more

sk8world

08-03-2008, 06:39 PM

Phil, is the adapter hollow or 3 50mm runs?

sk8world

08-05-2008, 10:58 AM

compared to stock and both side by side.

HDP

08-08-2008, 11:58 AM

How did your business transaction on Tuesday go?

sk8world

08-08-2008, 06:53 PM

just fine..

sk8world

09-04-2008, 01:56 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGmiN3OV7WU

Got it fired up. It cranked on the first turn over. 50-100 break in miles and tuning time... I hope I learned my mistakes not to blow it so quick this time.

Changes, RE mani combo with RE port match, 4 inch exhaust all the way, Synapse wastegate, 1680 X 4 injectors, twin denso pumps, balanced by Luis in Gadsten

David Jerome

09-04-2008, 02:57 PM

Those housings seem to have some decent wear on them, I guess those new seals seal pretty nicely for a street application. Looks great.

David

sk8world

09-04-2008, 03:07 PM

Those housings seem to have some decent wear on them, I guess those new seals seal pretty nicely for a street application. Looks great.

David

Thanks, Well they came out of a low mile reman so I am not 100% sure but I think Mazda only uses new housings.... In a couple pics above it is comparing them to a stock port worn out housing. But I have no idea how many real miles were on the one's I used. The dyno will tell all I guess.

sk8world

09-06-2008, 09:02 PM

beter sounding and clearer video of idle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4p59YimSmQ

busted7

09-06-2008, 11:24 PM

Get that thing going already! And post the tunning. It sounds solid at idle.

Im getting some new holeshot wheels this coming week for the back of the car, they are 16x9 with 6/78 backspace and will match the front skinnies.
Also went with hks twin disc and new diff and 4:30 gears with the trannie i have at 85mph in 5th it tachs at 4000rpms. It pulls better in 4th gear and looses less boost between shifts.

I will get some times this sept in Tulsa. And probley some vids.

Good to see you have it going man the best of luck with this setup!:driving:

sk8world

09-07-2008, 12:10 AM

Thanks Busted! Yeah, I have been watching a few threads and saw you were geting some nice wheels! Also saw the issues on the clutch being backwards.. Those gears sound nice. I have always thought about doing the same.. But I still think about the C4 setup... First things first. These 1680 primary's need some adjusting. If I have too much trouble with them I will put the 1000's back in. I just liked the idea of being able to run E85 with not inj. swaps.

After reading about Enzo's brother it makes me wonder if all this is even needed.. Also makes me want to put in a 2 step..

David Jerome

09-08-2008, 09:52 AM

After reading about Enzo's brother it makes me wonder if all this is even needed.. Also makes me want to put in a 2 step..

I have kinda been rethinking my path as well because of this. Looks like e85 and a mid sized turbo is the way to go.

sk8world

09-08-2008, 11:43 AM

Anyone know were to get E85 in Huntsville area....

HDP

09-08-2008, 07:50 PM

Anyone know were to get E85 in Huntsville area....

Not 100% E85 but there are a few stations that have 10% added.

sk8world

09-08-2008, 10:25 PM

nah.. I need the hard stuff...100 proof. I here they have it on base but after that its 1 hr north or south to get it.

busted7

09-10-2008, 09:12 PM

Yea this wheel stuff is getting to be a pain in the ass, ill get it worked out and post some picts.
About Enzos bro you dont need more than it takes or you have to deal with more setup. Like a yellow rx7 just hitting 9's with 34 lbs it can make it harder to have more than you need.
The gears seem to make it easier in town i can cruise at 40mph in 5th gear.
Jdm trannie and 4.30 diff=80mph and 4000rpms still 20mpg+:icon_tup:

Get well and get it finished!:)

sk8world

09-11-2008, 11:55 PM

I saw were Enzo's brother had some weld skinny's for sale. Maybe I will pick them up if he is wiling to ship. What did yours set you back?

I am making some progress. After this weekend if I can not get the lag set right for these inj's. I will put the 1000's back in and get the tune dialed in. I need to get on the track for some seat time before the end of Oct. You should consider coming down for the SFS event. Ernie is coming down and maybe Anthony also.

busted7

09-12-2008, 08:37 PM

Man id love to come down ill just have to see what happens in Tulsa Okla i hope nothing breaks.
Go to Earnies 9 sec run and see my new wheels on the other site!

I like mine better than welds but wasn't cheap but ther lighter and fit a little better!
let me know what you think!

Brent

09-12-2008, 11:18 PM

Mike,
Here is a listing by state of E85 stations. It's pretty accurate for TN, but I'm not sure for AL. It only has one station listed, which I find hard to believe unless Redstone Arsenal is only filling up their gov. vehicles on base.

http://e85vehicles.com/e85-stations.htm

sk8world

09-14-2008, 12:53 AM

Thanks Brent.. I am still up in the air on this E85 thing... First thngs first..

Good news is I put the 1000 cc primary's back in tonight and it ran SO much better. I also found I have a short in the primary inj wiring that needs to be fixed. I still have hope to run at SFS 2008!