Is this rotor housing done?

[BLKTOPTRVL]

Looks like it has been burning, or maybe the rotor was chattering? :o10: I will get some daylight photos tomorrow.

[RETed]

Wash that thing is some gasoline or something...
It does have weird markings.
Looks like it was burning a lot of oil?
Excessive premix?

Did it have high mileage?
The weird center clean "groove" is strange, especially after the exhaust port.
The apex seal might've been bending outwards, but this is only indicative of very high mileage motors with very worn 3-piece apex seals...

I don't see too much grooving from the triangle assist piece, so I'm kinda puzzled myself.


-Ted

[Ender]

If you divide the housing vertically, exhaust/intake on one side and the compression/ignition on the other, it looks like a lot of chatter on the exhaust/intake side. Try acetone to clean them up. Pros use it, I've used it; it seems to work well.

[BLKTOPTRVL]

Wash that thing is some gasoline or something...
It was washed in a parts washer and then coated with penetraiting oil before the photo.
It does have weird markings.
Looks like it was burning a lot of oil? Only time i ever saw evidence of burning oil was at start up and during deceleration after coasting a while.Excessive premix? Never Premixed.

Did it have high mileage? 202,000
The weird center clean "groove" is strange, especially after the exhaust port.
The apex seal might've been bending outwards, but this is only indicative of very high mileage motors with very worn 3-piece apex seals...

I don't see too much grooving from the triangle assist piece, so I'm kinda puzzled myself.
-Ted

Answers in Red.

[BLKTOPTRVL]

If you divide the housing vertically, exhaust/intake on one side and the compression/ignition on the other, it looks like a lot of chatter on the exhaust/intake side. Try acetone to clean them up. Pros use it, I've used it; it seems to work well.


So, you think the burning is on top of the chrome plating and not a sign of the plating being worn off?

Off to the store I go.

[RETed]

Wow, that oil residue didn't come off with that much cleaning...
Previous owner using synth oil?

Yeah, the high mileage explains a lot.

What's weird is that if the residue was made by normal, mineral oil, it should've came off with all that washing...


-Ted

[RETed]

So, you think the burning is on top of the chrome plating and not a sign of the plating being worn off?
No, if the chrome plating were to have been worn or scrapped off, you would know it.
Chrome tends to flake and peel off.
You can feel it with your fingers (nails).
If you've ever seen high mileage 12A rotor housings, you'd understand what I mean.

The residue is definitely on top of the chrome surface.
The apex seal chatter has a lot to do with all that residue on the rotor housing...


-Ted

[Ender]

I've seen some of this type of crud on the surface before, you may not get it off of there with passive cleaning techniques like hot tanks and just being sprayed with penetrating fluid. You'll have to scrub at it. Don't use anything very abrasive though. I guess just try a clean cotton rag with acetone first and scrub hard, if that doesn't work you might try a really really fine sandpaper, but use it very lightly and ONLY on the stained areas. If you try sandpaper you might just sand a little bit then try the rag again to see if it just needed to be loosened by having its surface broken.

[Ender]

However, if there's a lot of chatter wear, which it looks like there may be, I wouldn't reuse it.

[BLKTOPTRVL]

Wow, that oil residue didn't come off with that much cleaning...
Previous owner using synth oil?

Yeah, the high mileage explains a lot.

What's weird is that if the residue was made by normal, mineral oil, it should've came off with all that washing...


-Ted

I am the only owner. I've had it for 20 years.

I hit it with the acetone and it took off some of the varnish, but still left the dull finish on the chrome. Pics later.

[BLKTOPTRVL]

However, if there's a lot of chatter wear, which it looks like there may be, I wouldn't reuse it.


Pretty much what I was thinking.

This will increase the cost of rebuild by 1K. So, now I might as well go ahead and replace all of the marginal parts to have a fresh engine rather than a slight life extension.

[BLKTOPTRVL]

First Pic is before acetone. Second and third are after.

[Ender]

This will increase the cost of rebuild by 1K. So, now I might as well go ahead and replace all of the marginal parts to have a fresh engine rather than a slight life extension.

Why? Are you only considering buying new parts or were you hoping to reuse apex seals and such? I found more than one pair of pretty good housings for under $200 per pair.

[BLKTOPTRVL]

Oh? Are you referring to 'store bought' used or from a private party?

[Ender]

Private party. Still, is your estimate $1000 for just housings or for other stuff, too? Regardless, it doesn't look like you have much choice. You may be able to reuse them, heck you'd probably be able to reuse a lot of housings that a pro builder would never ever reuse, but you'd sacrifice a lot for it.

[BLKTOPTRVL]

At first, I was looking to do the job for about a grand. But now, I am looking at at least 2K total with new housing and all the bearings replaced.

Because the car is only worth 4-5K at most, I was originally just looking for a freshening of the engine. But, if it needs housings, I might as well go all the way. (I've had the car for all it's life and I can't imagine ever selling it; so, I might as well do the job correctly now.)

That means, I will be buying new Rotor Housings. The price is not too unbearable - as long as I don't screw the pooch on the re-assembly.

I will have to find out if I will now need new apex seals for the new housing. I will check to see what the measurements I come up with from the old seals.

[Ender]

Not that I'd be happy to bump your costs, but I'd personally HATE to run used seals on new housings, unless they had less than a couple hundred gentle miles on them.


edit: wait, you aren't considering buying ONE new housing and putting it with a used one, are you?

[BLKTOPTRVL]

No, two.

Based on the wear pattern I am seeing, I'd have to guess that apex seals are deformed too. But I will wait till I see them to make that call.

[dregg100]

you are talking about buying brand new rotor housings, but using used apex seals?

[BLKTOPTRVL]

On the upcoming 16x, this is supposed to be revised, with 3 oil injectors per housing, one in the center and one on each edge. This is probably still not as good for coverage as premix, but considering that the housing will be narrower and there will be less room to cover...

Thanks for the post. I had already concluded that except for the rotors and the irons, I will have a new engine when i am finished.

Did I read you correctly, that the new 16X is going to have narrower rotors? I guess that means the overall hight/width of the engine will grow.

[My5ABaby]

the 16x will use 12a width rotors and housings, but be overall larger in diameter/height/eccentricity. They are looking to get a more efficient burn and better torque.
Which would seem to go against what I would image would help the flame front speed problem, but apparently I'm wrong. Or maybe they've figured out a better injection method (direct?) and fixed the problem.

[TheDriver216]

Which would seem to go against what I would image would help the flame front speed problem, but apparently I'm wrong. Or maybe they've figured out a better injection method (direct?) and fixed the problem.

they are using direct injection http://autodrum.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/rx16_2.jpg

[My5ABaby]

Well that explains it. :D

[TehMonkay]

I had 3 very good 13B NA housings, my dad traded them all in for scrap though :(, I do have two T2 housings you can buy though. I will need the exhaust sleeves though. they are out of a jspec, pm me if youre interested, i dont want much.

[BLKTOPTRVL]

For those who are following. The front housing has the same dulled chrome as the rear did. So, at 200K my housings are worn out. There is no actual flaking or gouges, just dulled chrome with chatter marks.

So, I will be ordering enough parts that when combined with my good rotors and shaft, I will essentially have a new engine.

But now, the question is what to do with the old housings? I don't want to just trash them.

I guess I could turn them in for the aluminum value and get (?) 2 or 3 bucks?

Or; as I recall there was some company experimenting with re-chroming the housings. I am sure they need a supply of mechanically intact housings to work with.

Does anyone know the person(s) who are trying to get a re-chrome process perfected?

[BLKTOPTRVL]

Haven't posted for a long time, but here is what happened...

After geting the 202K engine disassembled, I found that both rotors were worn; the chrome was not flaking but it was dull. I have researched and learned that a dull crome is not necessarily a KOD (kiss-of-death), but I didn't want to put together an engine with housings that might not last very long.

So, looking at the cost of new housings, and the rest of the engine parts, I decided I would still go for it. I liked the idea of having what would basicly be a new engine.

Total cost was now going to be about 2K.

Then, during a close inspection of the front iron, I found that the outer wall of the inner water seal was gone in two places - worn away.

This would add some more to the cost of the engine.

Then I found a reman with warranty for a little more than 2K.

So, I am putting the 'core' back together and will take delivery of the rebuilt engine on Monday.

Adding to the cost will be another $7C for a rebuilt transmission.

Spending $2.7K on an engine and tranny for a car that is only worth about $4K does not seem a great idea me; but because it is a vert, in great shape, has much sentimental value, gets ~26MPG, and I can never see selling it, I am proceding.

[BLKTOPTRVL]

From day one (0 miles), I've always got great mileage from the vert. Top up or top down.

But then, it's always been a great highway car.