Side seal springs & Oil Control ring springs questions

[Pete_89T2]

After doing a little research to plan my 1st build, I found that Mazda has different part #'s for the FC and FD side seal springs.

FC part # is N326-11-C17
FD part # is NF01-11-C17

I've read on the other forum that these springs are interchangeable with no ill effects. First, is that a true statement or BS? Second question is, besides the part # and probably cost, what are the salient differences between these part #'s? Is one part # stiffer than the other, and if so, would that be beneficial? Application will be a modified S5 T2. Big street port on new block, so I should be a bit north of 300 RWHP, which is what the current un-ported block is doing, after tuning with all other setup bits remaining the same.

On a similar note, WRT the outer oil control ring springs, Mazda makes a stock and a "competition" version of this part. In this case, Mazda says the competition versions are a little stiffer, which I would guess would reduce blow-by. Is there a downside, perhaps higher wear rate? Would there be any benefit to using these in a street build? They cost about the same, so that factor is a wash.

Thanks!

[C. Ludwig]

The FD sideseal spring is stiffer. Stiffer springs seal better and help stabilize the rotor. Downside is more parasitic drag and more wear. Enough to not use them? Not in my book.

[TitaniumTT]

Agree with Chris... I use all REW springs in my builds, including the Competition oil control springs.
You absolutely want to use the REW corner seal springs.
What are you using for Apex Seals?

[Pete_89T2]

Already knew the FD corner seal springs were better, so I didn't bother asking about those ;)

Most likely I'll use Mazda OEM apex & side seals, as you know exactly what you're getting.

[RETed]

I don't know the numbers off-hand, but I don't have measuring equipment that can measure such a difference...

Just playing around with the oil control springs, it didn't feel any different to me...
...but I'm not a precision piece of measuring equipment. :)
Whatever the case, I burned through a set of the comp springs just as easily when I had an oil pressure problem.
Personally, I don't think it makes that much of a difference for most people unless we're talking about power figures that start to get close to 400hp...

I can't offer any experience with the side seal springs...
With that said, I have had zero problems running the stock, FC side seal springs.

In fact, I reuse most of those pieces unless it's obvious that they are worn past spec...
For oil control rings, if just the copper plating is worn off, I'd still reuse them; if there are signs the base spring steel has been worn, I throw those away.

Now, this brings up an interesting discussion...
All those parts increase pressure of the seals on the side housings.
For most of us, we're reusing good, used side housings...
This does not apply to brand new side housings, nor for those who can afford to re-coat (i.e. gas nitride, similar, or better) the side housings.
Since most of the original gas nitride surface treatment has been worn away, I've been seeing accelerated wear on them.
Rebuilds for under 400hp, I tend to stick with the stock stuff - with the exception of the FD corner seal springs (but even those tend to accelerate wear on the side housings too).
If you're looking for north of 400, there's a lot more money involved, and that usually gives you a lot more options.

Personally, for 300hp, I'd just reuse your original seals, if they are in good shape.
If you're paranoid, you're welcome to buy new (upgrade, i.e. FD) springs and / or the comp springs.


-Ted

[Pete_89T2]

Personally, for 300hp, I'd just reuse your original seals, if they are in good shape.
If you're paranoid, you're welcome to buy new (upgrade, i.e. FD) springs and / or the comp springs.


-Ted

Reuse of the original side seals isn't an option in this case. Purchased Ransom's nearly new short block, but it was already dissembled & cleaned up pretty good when I got it. Didn't come with any of the hard seals on the rotors except the oil control rings, which I knew going in. But the condition of the housings, rotors & irons are about as close to brand new as you can get, and it has about as big of a street port as you can get :D

[chibikougan]

Yeah I thought about sending you everything but in my haste I didn't note where anything went... Looking back I wish I would have never cracked it.

[Barry Bordes]

Yeah I thought about sending you everything but in my haste I didn't note where anything went... Looking back I wish I would have never cracked it.

Chick,
Which seals were you thinking about using?
Why did you sell it in such haste?

Pete,
You can't beat the latest OEM applicable parts. So 3rd gen springs and seals.
You could add the longer side seals and cut the corner seals for better sealing.
See my Zero Clearance side seal thread.
Barry

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll129/bbordes/IMG_0061_zps199cc73e.jpg (http://s287.photobucket.com/user/bbordes/media/IMG_0061_zps199cc73e.jpg.html)

[chibikougan]

Chick,
Which seals were you thinking about using?
Why did you sell it in such haste?


Used OEM mazda 2 piece and I didn't sell it in any haste I just tore it down with no intention of keeping or re using.


I was selling for a while. I just never tore it down until I sold it to make sure it was all still Brand New condition.

[Slides]

Barry can you link to your thread?

[Barry Bordes]

Sure Slides,
If you search my name it comes up.
Barry


http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=1295&highlight=barry+bordes

[Slides]

Thanks.

[RETed]

Look what came out of the woodwork...
*sigh*


-Ted

[chibikougan]

Hey Pete I found all the seals, springs and everything. You want me to send em to you? I will look and see if its all there and if it would be worth it.