my turn for a 20B... finally...

[lt1_fd3s]

So I'm going to see how this goes... I'm not typically one for a build thread. That is mainly because I forget to post updates as they happen and/or forget to take pics to show progress... not to mention delays in projects that I know annoy people trying to follow along with a build thread... the delays end up annoying me too and i'm the one doing my projects!!!

But, I'm going to see how this works out for me this time... hopefully this will help me keep moving forward on the project.

So... at DGRR 2013 I had the crazy idea that I would do a 20B! I already have a v8 FD... I've had it for years and I'm known for having it... I've also had a rotary FD and a handful of rotary FCs... so my original idea was to do a 20B project over the next year, keeping it as quiet as i could and then just show up with it at DGRR 2014... well, that plan didn't work out... and the other deadlines i tried to set for myself didn't work out either... so yeah, glad i didn't start a build thread back then...

Anyway... I didn't just buy a 20B and then it sit... since I got it, I slowly started collecting parts, thinking about the project, collecting more parts... changed my mind about which car would get the engine, etc...

So the idea:
- NA 20B with triple throttle bodies in an FD

Parts list:
- A Series 20B
- S5 NA Rotors (balanced by Mandeville)
- Street port
- triple throttle body intake w/ air box (purchased from other member)
- Defined Autoworks header
- Defined 20B mounts
- Electric water pump (due to the intake I purchased from member in Australia)
- Haltech PS2000
- PXL Wide band
- Rebuild by Liberty FD transmission
- 4.3 gear final drive LSD
- 6x LSx coils
- Sakebomb 25 row dual oil coolers
- aluminum radiator

I picked up the 20B through AllRotor93, sourced the NA rotor from an old s5 engine of mine and 1 from RotaryResurrection... Intake from Alister... Header from Justin (in Canada)...

A local builder helped me tear down the 20B several months back and confirmed that all parts were in good/great condition and it looked like a fairly low mileage engine.

Now... after several months of dragging my feet and letting other things get in the way, I'm hoping to hear back from the builder about meeting up with him within the next few days to reassemble my engine, Saturday I go and look at a roller...

And I know people like pictures... so here are a few... in my Google+ account:
https://plus.google.com/photos/114468660500045627127/albums/6102062110316225681

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EX0IO8ecOqA/VK7hKKLhTCI/AAAAAAAABHs/Jf1VsdAGbF4/w602-h452-no/IMG-20130514-00188.jpg

[almoststockfc]

Heck yea man, awesome. Will you be at the gap this year?

[lt1_fd3s]

Heck yea man, awesome. Will you be at the gap this year?
i'm sure i'll be in the area... i'm always in the area!!! hahaha... would love to see it done by then, but we'll see how it goes

[FC Zach]

Awesome Tray!

[t_g_farrell]

Don't be lazy with the pictures Tray!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zDMqE2qe0VM/VK7hZ1LMOZI/AAAAAAAABIM/MEAXEQqhaPY/w908-h511-no/20150107_200931.jpg

[88turboii]

lsx coils suck, igns or FC much better

[lt1_fd3s]

thanks for the info jamin... the LSx coils were free... but i'm not opposed to sourcing others.

went today and checked out first hand a roller a friend of mine has... she's a little rough in some spots but right in the price range and has the bits i need... he has a few little things he would like to finish up on it before I bring her home... so now the car is found... and i'll post pics once I bring her home.

[t_g_farrell]

So are you keeping the NASCAR motor in your current FD and getting another FD?

I'm cornfused.

[lt1_fd3s]

i had planned to pull the v8... but now i've decided it will remain in there and i'm picking up another FD shell... i was considering buying an FD from Jamin but I've decided to just get a roller for about 1/2 the price and doesn't leave me with an engine just sitting around afterwards...

[lt1_fd3s]

tomorrow at noon I go to the builder's to put the engine back together... hopefully i'll remember to snap a few pics... if not, then you will get pics of the assembled engine

[lt1_fd3s]

UPDATE!!! Got the engine put back together today with the help of the local builder...

now the next things on the to-do list:

get the roller here to the house
get the header ceramic coated
mate the trans to the engine


here is a teaser from today... I only ended up taking 5 pics total... if you've seen one engine going together, you've seen them all...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-npt4bRsrF9Q/VLr-M4ahYuI/AAAAAAAADrc/7ApFjWSDrX4/w737-h415-no/20150117_154528.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/a8scZAd30XHTKGRzt1srIHPXRQ6UMTmViNDmBnTNsxo=w737-h415-no

the other 4 were added to the album... click me to see more pic!!! (http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_142154120398512&key=24ff233912d32a355b8cad131a30546b&libId=af8d8de2-dc8f-4320-8db6-69d657d9adc7&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rx7club.com%2Fbuild-threads-292%2Fmy-na-20b-fd-project-1076877%2F%23post11852916&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fplus.google.com%2Fphotos%2F11446 8660500045627127%2Falbums%2F6102062110316225681&title=My%20NA%2020B%20in%20FD%20project...%20-%20RX7Club.com&txt=https%3A%2F%2Fplus.google.com%2Fphotos%2F11446 ...62110316225681)

[t_g_farrell]

Nice!

So, how ugly is the roller anyway?

[Fendamonky]

Good luck with that. How much did you pay for the kit and build???

[lt1_fd3s]

the roller is pretty rough at the moment... multiple colors... needs a little bit of work done on the rear quarter.. i'll post pics when it's here at the house...

which kit, levi? ooh... just a fun fact, the diff i got from you (levi) will be going with the 20B...

in other news, got my v8 fd back from the transmission shop today... time to get back into driving it...

[lt1_fd3s]

so, i picked up the car this weekend... and threw some body parts on it to test fit. looks like I need to play with the front support a little, might be bent down a little bit... not completely sure. The roller does need some body work and repair on the rear quarter panel... so just have to talk to the body guy when the time comes...

I got the roller from a good friend (and parts seller) Jim (tomsn16) in Cleveland TN... if he has a part you need, do not hesitate to do business with him. Every time I've gotten parts, communication is great, quality is spot on and price is fair. He's a great seller!!!

I also was able to bolt on my side-mount alt bracket. hopefully get the engine dressed up a little more this week when some I have some block-off plates and few gaskets show up.

Main goals for me right now are to finish up dressing the engine, get my header ceramic coated, depower the steering rack, and hopefully having the drive train set in the car within the month. I hope for good weather this week so I can get the 4.30 diff installed and axles.

My RE-A AW7 wheels showed up, I will eventually need to get them rebarrelled so they are wider.

now for a little colorfulness...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GaxLFl472Jw/VNgbTrkpSTI/AAAAAAAAD6Q/Ok6MmOTt5h8/w776-h437-no/20150207_101357.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-C7Eh_Hqf3CA/VNgbreqRokI/AAAAAAAAD7I/OjeF1U0LFlg/w776-h437-no/20150208_135807.jpg

Total of 8 pics added to the album... (https://plus.google.com/photos/114468660500045627127/albums/6102062110316225681) I plan to get some more pics over the week as I continue to dress up the engine.

And just some notes for later... the oil port on the front cover of the 20B is an M16 (like the FC) NOT M18 like the FD front cover.

[tomsn16]

Please please paint that thing before you even "think" about installing that gorgeous engine.....and thanks for the parts plug.
Anxious to follow the build.....lots of pics please.

[lt1_fd3s]

oh! hey jim! you are on this forum!!! hahaha

[t_g_farrell]

Plasti-Dip Pink for DGRR maybe?

[FC Zach]

^ +1 :icon_tup:

[t_g_farrell]

With all body hair dyed to match! LOL

I want to see this roll into Charlotte Cars and Coffee soon. I told em about your project and
everyones excited to see it.

[lt1_fd3s]

well, i have a few emails out inquiring about a few things to see if retaining PS is feasible within a reasonable time frame... hopefully i'll have that decision made by the end of the week...

[t_g_farrell]

PS is for girls!

[lt1_fd3s]

ok, need suggestions... what wheel color would look good with titanium grey metallic?

the color: (not my car)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xFkA9cDv3p8/VN-OPtXcvMI/AAAAAAAAD_0/eeRwb67GSr8/w717-h538-no/DSC00578.jpg%7Eoriginal.jpeg

[djmtsu]

I got the roller from a good friend (and parts seller) Jim (tomsn16) in Cleveland TN... if he has a part you need, do not hesitate to do business with him. Every time I've gotten parts, communication is great, quality is spot on and price is fair. He's a great seller!!!


I believe Jim is Carter's dad!

Carter rebuilt the framerail on the Cosmo from scratch, in one night.

Good people!!!!

[85rx-7gsl-se]

Should have some FD parts on my porch from Tom when I get home :)

[chibikougan]

Not anymore Muahahhahahahaaaha!



Wait it will take me way to long to get there...

[lt1_fd3s]

yes... jim is carter's dad... and one of my old engines is in their SCCA car =]

[85rx-7gsl-se]

I meant Jim lol.

[lt1_fd3s]

i wish this weather would play nice so i could work on the car!!!

i have oil coolers to put on, diff to install...

[GySgtFrank]

i wish this weather would play nice so i could work on the car!!!

i have oil coolers to put on, diff to install...

Quit your whining and get your ass moving. If I can work in this crap out here, then I don't want to hear about how your female parts hurt in NC. :toetap05:

[lt1_fd3s]

Quit your whining and get your ass moving. If I can work in this crap out here, then I don't want to hear about how your female parts hurt in NC. :toetap05:

Aye Gunny!

[N.RotaryTech]

Been lurking.
Awesome that your doing this 20b project.
As far as the car goes, leave it multi colored. lol.

[lt1_fd3s]

been lurking.
Awesome that your doing this 20b project.
As far as the car goes, leave it multi colored. Lol.
toby!!!

[tomsn16]

Hey tray......hows the project going, anxious for an update.
Jim T

[t_g_farrell]

Hey, slacker, is this coming to DGRR? Can it make the climb up the hill to the OGTA cabin?

I'll have cider!

[lt1_fd3s]

i'm waiting to hear back about when i can order some different motor mounts... and debating if/when i want to go talk to the paint and body guy about color changing the engine bay before i drop the engine in...

[lt1_fd3s]

just a small update... I did a little test fitting of the engine + trans with the mounts and oil pan...

Mounts: Defined Auto brackets + 2.6" Xcessive Poly lower mounts
Xcessive 20B oil pan kit

I'm not comfortable with the angle of the engine + trans and the oil pan rests on the steering rack. The back of the trans is about 1'' or more lower than stock (estimate is based on trying to mount the Banzai Trans brace). Also, with the height of the engine, my front strut bar doesn't clear my #1 trumpet, but the trumpet does clear under the hood about the thickness of my index finger. So now i'm considering my options to allow me to tilt the engine more, lowering the front while raising the back of the trans... yes, i'm toying with the idea of a dry sump system...

I've since pulled it all back out and stripped down the bay as much as I can in prep for getting it painted.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Di-fCVBIUfg/VR_rMzv5_rI/AAAAAAAAEZo/nnreSVP6xb0/w484-h860-no/20150331_194532.jpg

5 pics added to the album (http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_142815561211813&key=24ff233912d32a355b8cad131a30546b&libId=i832r06x01000azo000DLv790zfxsga0f&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rx7club.com%2Fbuild-threads-292%2Fmy-na-20b-fd-project-1076877%2F&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fplus.google.com%2Fphotos%2F11446 8660500045627127%2Falbums%2F6102062110316225681&title=My%20NA%2020B%20in%20FD%20project...%20-%20RX7Club.com&txt=Total%20of%208%20pics%20added%20to%20the%20alb um...)

[tomsn16]

Anxious to see it painted....what color have you decided on?
Engine looks awesome.

[lt1_fd3s]

I've settled on the "Spirit R Grey" aka Titanium Grey Metallic (Paint Code: 25G)

and after discussion options today with my brother, we have a few ideas about oil pan hitting the steering rack issue... ideas that don't cost $4500... and if we get one of those to work out, then yeah... i can pick up some other goodies i had to delay on.. heehee...

[tomsn16]

WELL.....how is the project going? Hope you are not as far behind as I am.
Jim T

[lt1_fd3s]

hit a few delays... but hopefully will be back to this project soon...

[lt1_fd3s]

Cliff notes:
New Super Pro bushings front and rear (ordered from J-Auto, who is a GREAT guy to buy from!!!)
New OEM Pillow balls (also ordered from Juan at J-Auto)
J-Auto Trailing arms and toe links
Suspension back on the car with the 4.3 diff installed as well... (hopefully by the end of the weekend)

well, after some delays and life happening...

i didn't originally plan to do this in the build but after checking out the suspension and swapping the '94/'95 subframe that was on my shell into my other FD, I ended up deciding to do new bushings all around, including the pillow balls.

The diff already had super pro bushings, which i only realized after i had ordered my first set from J-Auto (1st set was for my v8 fd). So about 2 wks after that order, I ordered another set of super pro's from Juan, along with his new rear trailing arms and toe links. And from my misreading his website the first time I ordered parts, I ended up with a set of OEM pillow balls w/ new dust covers.

Today I got all the old bushings pressed out and tomorrow I plan to install all the new ones and see about getting the suspension back on the car along with the 4.3 diff installed.

With this out of the way, i can motivate myself to clean and paint my depowered steering rack, re-assemble it and get back to test fitting the engine again, this time with the OEM oil pan.

Side note: I have a Xcessive 20B oil pan on the car right now but with the defined auto motor mounts, the front "hump" of the oil pan rests on the steering rack, raising the front of the engine and made it impossible to get the back of the transmission high enough to bolt in my banzai transmission mount as well as greatly effected the angle of the driveshaft.

[88turboii]

sledge hammer?

[lt1_fd3s]

i would rather try to justify the cost of a dry sump setup... and the metal of the Xcessive pan is pretty steady, i did consider cutting and rewelding it, but just swapping oil pans is considerably less work

[88turboii]

doesnt defined auto make a oilpan that clears? or too pricey?

[lt1_fd3s]

doesnt defined auto make a oilpan that clears? or too pricey?
they modify the back of the stock 20B oil pan to clear the FD subframe (and decreasing oil capacity. They do not do any modifications to the front of the oil pan where the sump tube is. and from my previous experiences of doing business with them, I would rather just not deal with them again.

My plan is to leave the stock oil pan unmodified and to cut my subframe and modify it to fit around the 20B pan. really it's just cutting out one section and welding a new cross bar further back... i probably should do this before i re-install the front lower control arms... since i have to swap out subframes anyway...

[silverfdturbo6port]

Either way you do it your gonna have to fabricate. Best to mod the oil pan unless you really know what your doing with the subframe.

Since I moved my engine back 3" I made a custom subframe and oil pan

And if you decide to modify the steering rack mounting in any way make sure you dont have any bump steer with the final product.

[lt1_fd3s]

i did modify a stock subframe. I simply cut out the rear "cross bar" and replaced it with a smaller bit of square stock. i'll snap some pics while the engine is out for the car to get the bay painted...

so, this past weekend I was able to get the engine test fit again with the modified subframe, depowered steering rack, stock 20B oil pan (with banzai racing oil ban brace), exhaust, trans, and intake setup.

now everything clears a stock hood... without the fancy air box... so i'm running open trumpets and need to figure out filters for them. At this time, the car is stilling with a full drive train except for drive shaft and powerplant frame.

one thing to note are that the header barely touches the subframe so when i pull the engine off and before the car is sent off to get the bay painted, I'll need to do a little massaging of this area. need to just notch it to clear more.

otherwise, i'm happy with the clearance the steering rack has below the engine... and if i wanted about another 1/5'' of clearance from the hood, I could get some 2.4'' tall engine mounts (instead of the 2.6'' I have now) And dropping the engine lower would definitely require me notching for the header on the subframe. I'm also having to look at other options if i want to run a front strut tower bar, the one that came with the car doesn't clear the trumpets.

as before, next steps: engine bay painted
header coated
massage/notch subframe for header

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-shQNX1sBuE8/VlNEp22rzPI/AAAAAAAAG-M/Ng4ho_QlFtU/w483-h858-no/20151121_173226.jpg

11 pics added to the album (http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_142815561211813&key=24ff233912d32a355b8cad131a30546b&libId=i832r06x01000azo000DLv790zfxsga0f&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rx7club.com%2Fbuild-threads-292%2Fmy-na-20b-fd-project-1076877%2F&v=1&out=https%3A%2F%2Fplus.google.com%2Fphotos%2F11446 8660500045627127%2Falbums%2F6102062110316225681&title=My%20NA%2020B%20in%20FD%20project...%20-%20RX7Club.com&txt=Total%20of%208%20pics%20added%20to%20the%20alb um...)

[t_g_farrell]

You know you can't keep using the id lt1_fd3s once this is done, right? I mean
you will now be 3rtr_fd3s or something.

Or just poor!

Looks like progress, anyway you look at it. DGRR 2016 for it?

[almoststockfc]

I like your scooter. Its a good size for you :rofl:

[lt1_fd3s]

might have to see about getting my id changed to 20b_fd3s or something after she's done...

[rgould]

looking good will be looking for it :auto::auto:

[N.RotaryTech]

How's this project coming along?
Will it be making an appearance at DGRR?

[tomsn16]

Yea Tray....we need an update....anxious to see it with new paint.

[lt1_fd3s]

LFVDeKkcHbw
it finally ran last night

[chibikougan]

:biggthumpup:

[t_g_farrell]

Nice! Sounds good too! Can't wait to see it.

[FC Zach]

I cant wait to see it either! I'm guessing it'll be at B3R?

[lt1_fd3s]

I cant wait to see it either! I'm guessing it'll be at B3R?
i do hope so!