Charging System Problem: All Idiot Lights ON

[Phoenix7]

well, you all know the classic alternator problem. When the alternator belt breaks and when the alternator is dying/dead all the IDIOT LIGHTS come ON to let you know your charging system is faulty and you're going to lose power.

Well, the only problem is that I have a new alternator and battery (less than 10K miles) and the problem is intermittent but all my lights came on today on my way home.

I know most of you will say it's the cluster and the soldering points coming lose and not making contact EXCEPT that when the lights come ON for a prolonged period of time (longest was 4 minutes) the battery goes down also.

I am trying to figure out what the problem is. The battery terminals are fine, the alternator is tight, the wires all look fine. I left the car on and started jiggling shit (ballsy, I KnOW, but i had not choice) and when I jiggled the alternator harness and the starter connection the lights came off and the battery began charging again.

I got in the car and drove home again but the lights turned on again, this time for 30 seconds, then they turned off and this continued for the next 30 minutes. I can't figure out if it's RPM specific or if it's a loose connection but it's pissing me off.

I'll continue checking the car and I'll connect the LED tester to see if it throws any codes at me. Stay tuned.



KEYWORDS: Alternator, Battery, Charging, System, Idiot, Lights, Cluster, Starter.

[RETed]

Dude, get a voltmeter to monitor system voltage...

That "feedback" plug sometimes gets loose.


-Ted

[Phoenix7]

well yeah, but it's intermittent. It stopped doing it tonight. I don't get it. I'll keep an eye on it and see what I can do.

[Phoenix7]

I found the culprit!!! Pics when I get home.

[Phoenix7]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/madrx7racer/Our%207s/broken%20stuff/004.jpg



An e-cookie if you spot the problem.

[RETed]

Looks like the feedback wire / plug wasn't pushed all the way in. :P


-Ted

[Phoenix7]

nope. Everything was nice and tight and in place. I noticed that if the wire under the rubber boot was pulled towards you (using the picture as a point of perspective) the battery would begin to charge, when I let it go the battery would not charge.

Look closer.

[Ex-Eg-Driver]

That plug is broken?

[Phoenix7]

nope, look at the black part under the brown plug. There is a crack right there. I may have bad wires also. I'm going to the alternator shop around here and getting a replacement first and see if that's casing a problem. I don't think it's supposed to be cracked.

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1296&stc=1&d=1208846963

[Ex-Eg-Driver]

its like a hairline crack :)

[Phoenix7]

if you twist it, it opens. It's broken for good though. I'll get a new one and then see if the heat got to the wires and toasted them.

[My5ABaby]

Is that not a metal piece (screw type thing) running through the cracked part? If so, how would the plastic being cracked affect it?

Regardless, if you replace it, crack it open and let me know. :D

[Phoenix7]

Dude, get a voltmeter to monitor system voltage...

That "feedback" plug sometimes gets loose.


-TedLooks like the feedback wire / plug wasn't pushed all the way in. :P


-Ted

Now, I thought the feedback wire was the plug that snaps into the alternator. Did you mean the wire underneath the rubber cover????? You may have been right all along, I just didn't know it.:banghead:

Is that not a metal piece (screw type thing) running through the cracked part? If so, how would the plastic being cracked affect it?

Regardless, if you replace it, crack it open and let me know. :Dyes, it is a metal rod that is encased in hard plastic. I didn't think it had much to do with it but it's still broken so I couldn't rule it out until today.

I went to the alternator place that rebuilt my alternator and the guy said that the wire going to the B terminal was loose, even though it looked and felt tight. I'm going to cut the wires, install a new ring terminal and make sure it's tight. It should fix the problem. Update after work is done.

[Phoenix7]

Decided to use a washer to see if it wasn't a bad contact like everyone believes. No lights. We'll see in a few days. If it returns then I might look into the wires.

[RETed]

Is that not a metal piece (screw type thing) running through the cracked part? If so, how would the plastic being cracked affect it?

Yeah, I was about to ask the same thing...

It's like a bulkhead connector where the metal conductor is straight through?
If the plastic outer "casing" is cracked, it should've affect the function.
I would try and remove the piece and test conductivity while twisting it to see if it really is damaged that bad.

If is it cracked all the way through...DAYAM!


-Ted

[Phoenix7]

well, I replaced the broken part, I still don't understand how the hard plastic affected the conductivity but I'm not an electrician. If anyone can explain it, please do so. I just thought it was hard plastic. Maybe the exposed metal was grounding??? :dunno:

It has been running perfect since the broken piece was replaced. I am noticing some flluctuations in voltage (based on the stock voltmeter) from 12V to 13V. Sometimes it's at 12V, most of the time it's at 13V to 13.5V

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/madrx7racer/Our%207s/broken%20stuff/toys027.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/madrx7racer/Our%207s/broken%20stuff/toys028-1.jpg

^^^NOTICE how the B-terminal connector isn't going in the whole way??? I noticed the metal stud going to the B-connector still had plastic on it. :dunno: I did my best to remove as much of the plastic with the smallest tools I had and the new one went on snugly.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/madrx7racer/Our%207s/broken%20stuff/toys029.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/madrx7racer/Our%207s/broken%20stuff/toys030.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/madrx7racer/Our%207s/broken%20stuff/toys031.jpg

[My5ABaby]

My stock gauge never shows me over 12.4v. With anything running (only lights since I have no radio or air), it shows under that. And... never had a problem so they're not always accurate.

[Phoenix7]

well, whether it's accurate or not it should always be constant. IF it fluctuates then something else is not right.

SO, it's been a few days without a single unexpected event.

[My5ABaby]

well, whether it's accurate or not it should always be constant. IF it fluctuates then something else is not right.

SO, it's been a few days without a single unexpected event.

Mine fluctuates. It may not be right, but it's been 3 years with no battery/starting/charging problems... :dunno:

[Phoenix7]

:dunno: I'll slap on the voltmeter one of these days.

[My5ABaby]

:dunno: I'll slap on the voltmeter one of these days.

Eh, if it works it works. Don't fix it if it isn't broke... :D

[Phoenix7]

Didn't they say the same thing about Social Security? :lol: It's been good so far and I don't see how checking the voltage as RETed recommended earlier would hurt. If anything I'd benefit more if something IS not working right and isn't causing any problems, YET. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

I recently bled the clutch hydraulics and I have to change the oil and tranny/rear end fluids soon. Soon after that I'll do a coolant system flush and refill the AC.

[Phoenix7]

IT'S BAAAAAAAAAAACK.

*insert a billion curse words*

I have ONE option left: rewire-the terminal in hopes that it's a bad connection. If that doesn't work then It's back to the Alternator shop for an inspection.

I tightened everything tonight and the lights stayed on. Oddly enough the battery charged to 12V even while all the lights were on. :dunno: I'm irritated and worried. Good thing it's almost friday.

I'll be following RETed's advice about the checking the charging system with a DMM and see if I can further pinpoint the flaw.

DAMNIT!

[Phoenix7]

I noticed that the rig terminal was a tad lifted at the base, (remember this one was shorter than the stocker? well the opening for the ring terminal is narrower too.) that may be the bad on/off issues before. I also noticed that the lights would turn off when i moved the B-terminal itself. Could be a bad internal part (that connect to the B-terminal)? or maybe even the plastic I mentioned earlier.

DMM tomorrow morning. If I can see that it's the B terminal/rectifier then I'll head to the alternator shop and have them give me another one if it's bad.

[Phoenix7]

DMM is dead so nothing this morning. Later tonight for sure. The lights flickered on and off a few times but they remained on 90% of the time. This is turning out to be the most annoying problem I've encountered so far.

[Phoenix7]

turned out to be a faulty Alternator. They gave me a new one for free (http://rotarycarclub.com/showpost.php?p=24231&postcount=3). It's been problem-free ever since.

[RETed]

Dude, that link you gave is restricted access. :P


-Ted

[My5ABaby]

It's in the West section. :dunno:

[Phoenix7]

let that be a warning for messing with me.













:lol: I dunno why it's says that. like my5ababy said: It's just in the west section.