Rice Racing M&W CDI COP Set-up

[RICE RACING]

Here is the superior M&W ignition system with perfect mounting system :hurray:

Enjoy.
Fits spot on with no load bearing on plugs, all bespoke RICE RACING!

http://i.imgur.com/Kgg3L3Q.jpg

The ULTIMATE!

http://i.imgur.com/DCqk7Dz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Oq23HKq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3aUH8th.jpg


Bit of background for people, I developed COP systems for the 13B-REW many years ago, field proven, this is one of my old systems below (CDI set up)
http://i.imgur.com/VZLElYx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KGfMTiE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8rYAJSJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ifonUhN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wRtXnuW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UDWRiSZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/odvEaEB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lB472V9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6H2I6Rm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cgpPEQi.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fpwEUKq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bea3Myq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wY4YXHh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fBi7o8K.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/KVZnVrc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MA7qyXC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mCK9o2K.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hbyss6p.jpg
RRCOP13BREW-MWCOI-006-VM Vertical mounting
$POA
NOTE: M&W CDI version can run ANY type of M14x1.25 rotary suitable spark plug, from ghetto to don mega

http://i.imgur.com/xTnGR9k.jpg
RRCOP-IGN1A-A adaptors for separate supply
$POA *each* so for 13B = $POA[/size]

Could you explain what comes in your kit? Bracket, hardware, etc. etc.


NOTE: M&W CDI version comes with bespoke rubber boots and electrical connection springs (x 4)
2 x Coil spacer/mounts
(FRONT and a REAR mount)
1 x Engine bracket/mount
(mounts off center plate)
Fasteners for the mounts x 3 NOTE: M&W CDI version has engine mount and coil mount fasteners only
Instruction sheet, with CAD pictures of fitment, and instructions



Hope to hear from you on email.



NOTES: on ratings and options fully spec'd up system with coils and or CDI boxes etc
Getting asked allot of this on email so best to post here:
[COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]CDI v's ghetto inductive (all up costs)
NOTE: all systems ratted to run constant duty street or road race applications

CDI RR option 1: 250mJ
M&W coils (x 4) + (Pro Drag 2 CDI box x 2) + RR COP kit
= ~$2800US
The TOP SPEC CUSTOM RICE RACING M&W set up, this comes configured with Hi/Lo switch input into each CDI box
150mJ & 250mJ
These are rated for constant use and NO EXCUSES
Tune the engine, dont let it tune you!

http://i.imgur.com/HR67z5r.jpg

CDI RR option 2: 115mJ
M&W coils (x 4) + (Pro14R CDI box x 1) + RR COP kit
= ~$2100US

[Monkman33]

I was just holding my ign 1a coild and they are weighty. Im not sure I trust that small mounting point to support them. I love the idea. Just would like to see a more robust mounting method.

[TitaniumTT]

I suspect the COP Adapter would take up a lot of the load plus there isn't that much torque on them outside of the mounting point.

[Monkman33]

But the single screw mounting point doesn't look like it would prevent the coils from vibrating. I would rather the cop link would not bear any weight. Since spark plugs dont really like to hold mich weight either.

[Fendamonky]

Count me in..

[speedjunkie]

I'm interested as long as it will fit with my current setup, specifically the water injection pump mounted on the frame. I don't remember how much room I have there and I won't be able to measure it for a few more months.

[RICE RACING]

But the single screw mounting point doesn't look like it would prevent the coils from vibrating. I would rather the cop link would not bear any weight. Since spark plugs dont really like to hold mich weight either.


Hi MM,

Good point.
Just to clarify.

The mounting bolt very little bending loads, the weight of the coils is supported by the recess in the back of the mount :)
It mounts against the back of the boss, the COP engine bracket takes all of the loads :)

To give you an idea of how strong a bolt is, I lift out a whole 13B-REW (130kg) with a single M8 bolt with an eyelet :)

Either way the design is 'over designed by a safety factor of 100 :smash:

Short of jacking up the car front the COP brackets you will never ever break them :smash:

[RICE RACING]

But the single screw mounting point doesn't look like it would prevent the coils from vibrating. I would rather the cop link would not bear any weight. Since spark plugs dont really like to hold mich weight either.

Each 'F' and 'R' assembly does not take any weight through the bolt either as they sit on the extension leg from the COP engine bracket, just to clarify ;)


http://i.imgur.com/EUwemy7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FitX65P.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WZXGYdH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/5lz2qd8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rVsCGik.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fWhtGRf.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Forgot to say rotation load is countered by legs of 'F' and 'R' mounting tabs as they are 0.1mm (less) between each other :) thus the mounting bolts M5x0.8 x 2 are fine and the engine mount is M6x1 x 1 single OEM position.

It's a refined design, I'm totally happy with, each system is guaranteed for LIFE to never ever fail electrically or mechanically in any application, but I will not warrant you lifting out the motor using the COP brackets :P

[RICE RACING]

I was just holding my ign 1a coild and they are weighty. Im not sure I trust that small mounting point to support them. I love the idea. Just would like to see a more robust mounting method.

Yes when 2 of them are together they are even heavier !
This is why I spend allot of time making my COP system as strong as it is beautiful :)
Tough, durable, but not stupidly over engineered where it does not need to be..... If there is anything else you want me to clarify I am happy to do so ;)

[Dannobre]

I'd give it a go.......Selling the brackets and plug adapters separate from the coils?

Any idea of price? That would help get more on board...

[RICE RACING]

I'd give it a go.......Selling the brackets and plug adapters separate from the coils?

Any idea of price? That would help get more on board...

Yeah it will be a full mounting kit.
*no spark plugs or coils or engine included :)

PRICE $TBA

Don't want to pull a figure out of my ass, if people want to put up what they are will to pay I will see if I can meet that, but remember its custom precision work here...............

[hybrid G]

I am interested in acquiring a kit.

What's the eta on production ?

[RICE RACING]

I am interested in acquiring a kit.

What's the eta on production ?

Q1 2015

I have a few things concurrently going, highest on list is STEEL SCIENCE apex seals then this comes second.

Once things are back into action in next couple of weeks I aim to finalize a cost and time frame, touch wood it will be sooner rather than later :dunno:

I'll do my best :Angel_anim:

[FC Zach]

This is very nice, I would love to have one and would be willing to pay whatever your price is (within reason) but unfortunately I don't believe this kit will work for my application. . Is this for REW only? That mounting point doesn't look familiar on my center iron.

[RICE RACING]

This is very nice, I would love to have one and would be willing to pay whatever your price is (within reason) but unfortunately I don't believe this kit will work for my application. . Is this for REW only? That mounting point doesn't look familiar on my center iron.

Its designed around 13B-REW, I could do a redesigned engine mount for other applications (need to be careful about rotor housing and spark plug location as well! *have to check this* may require coil brackets redesign as well!), but need some details sent to me on the config, all my old stock of plates etc long gone! :Chevy_anim: LOL

[FC Zach]

If you're willing to make another design that would be great, I would be more than happy to set my SakeBomb coil mounts to the side for a product like this.

If a possibility for you, count me in. Whatever you need from me let me know and I'll do my best to assist you.

[almoststockfc]

I would be interested as long as there isn't a drop in efficiency because of the small contact point. Can I ask why there is so much excess material around the coil mounting tabs? Is there a reason?

[TitaniumTT]

That's a good point, different series housings had different spark plug locations, and different center irons had different mounting tabs..... Damn rotaries :lol:

[RICE RACING]

I would be interested as long as there isn't a drop in efficiency because of the small contact point. Can I ask why there is so much excess material around the coil mounting tabs? Is there a reason?


Hi,

When I was working as a teacher in Automotive I got to look at all kinds of COP set ups, I was shocked when I saw all they used to create a contact was a small coil spring! when I made my fist COP set up (search the net) I custom made my own springs similar to OEM and under the PECO scope analysis there was no drop in Kv (use magic wand probe), and over the course of a few years testing in field they were faultless.

This system of mine is far improved in that it accounts better for miss alignment but also uses a bespoke spring (me and my father manufacture these!) with much higher pre load assuring a positive constant electrical contact a permanent one. IF you pull apart many OEM and after market wires and see just how fucking shit the contacts are on the posts of coil and plug you would be shocked what you find, at any point they are just single point contact but with VERY POOR clamping to either item! they really only work with the rubber boots creating the constant load to keep them in touch with the mating parts......... very poor system.

In regards to the 'excess material' on the coil 'F' and 'R' brackets, that is because there is an offset to the Trailing coil has a +4mm offset and this is reflected in the mount, to save me standardizing the COP adaptor (preferred) I decided to have offset coil mounts (so this is why one side lines up to the coil tab on the top coil and the other side lines up the the coil tab on the bottom coil, this could be machined off but then it would look line a leaning tower in Italy :) so best to leave it as is.

Hope that explains it.

Oh and in regards to making other stuff to suit other engines.
I would need confirmation of the plug locations (FC housings) as measured from the bottom edge, also a mounting location on the center plate, and a verification of the T & L plug recess in relation to the mounting point (best to email me) as I would send a drawing of what you need to provide me to design it to suit your application).

[Monkman33]

If I still want to mount my ac compressor and alternator on the side of the engine, with I have room?

[RICE RACING]

If I still want to mount my ac compressor and alternator on the side of the engine, with I have room?

I can give you the horizontal dimension (to the left) or FRONT of the rotor housing edge and you can confirm yourself if it will fit the parts on your motor set up..

This is the dimension (front of rotor housing edge)
9mm+17.14mm = 26.14mm

http://i.imgur.com/ESRurKi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mKBKOCf.jpg

This is dimension from tip of Trailing plug (R7420) to the tab on the top coil *sticks out furthest* ref GREEN shaded areas
45.75mm

http://i.imgur.com/Tuw7uf7.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Another dimension of how low it sits so you can determine if it will fit your set up.
Center of Trailing plug to bottom of IGN-1A coil
105.88mm

http://i.imgur.com/5UIiOd0.jpg

[Monkman33]

Thank you!

I will check it out.

[speedjunkie]

Damn I hadn't thought about the AC compressor and power steering. I'll take measurements when I get home.

[RICE RACING]

Damn I hadn't thought about the AC compressor and power steering. I'll take measurements when I get home.

Yeah shit was designed around 'race car' spec set up, :willy_nilly:

However if there is enough demand and it wont fit I guess I could spend some more time of my life modifying the solution to suit more OEM set up.... it all comes down to feedback and dollars (in orders from people who want it to suit there set up).

I'm pretty confident this will fit all, but that counts for shit till some of you c-u-n-t-s measure it up and let me know :coolgleamA:

On my old kit I have a WI tank where all of that OEM shit went and the COP fitted perfect, this one is not much different (even more compact) as I actually designed it rather than making from bit I had lying around LOL.

[RICE RACING]

This is the old set up, very simple compared to this.
You will see I have designed it for coils to sit lower (run cooler) and also clear rear heater water outlet.

Anyway some pics for reference for those who have not seen this before.

http://i.imgur.com/l5Kdakj.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/i6ZYfon.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mkd9156.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/tAZWPDH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DoM9FBz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Gyh17lM.jpg

[Slides]

Would have a bigger market if it fits behind factory ancillaries.

Might be able to get some rough measurements this week.

[RICE RACING]

Would have a bigger market if it fits behind factory ancillaries.

Might be able to get some rough measurements this week.

Thanks for that.

Open to ideas thus the thread, at this stage in design can redo items if needed to suit the majority as all of it will fit mine anyway.

:nopity: Just means I'll get faster on the CAD haha :nopity:

[MotoTek]

Great design! I have a side mount alternator, so not sure this will work on my 20b unfortunately.

[speedjunkie]

I wouldn't expect you to change the design, and I'm not sure how you'd change it to fit any better behind the AC and PS with as compact as it is already, but that's cool if you do and you can lol.

[RICE RACING]

COP Adaptor is finished with insulation rubber plug and removable cover !

http://i.imgur.com/7w2lAsc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/v7GCdHN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wrBeuBS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/c7FTylt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZlySkzQ.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Refined cover plate

http://i.imgur.com/CuUkFs2.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Pretty much over this now :beatdeadhorse5:

http://i.imgur.com/pGHVQ7f.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bPj4ODg.jpg

Shit is optimized as much as I can do it, without going mental in the process! :beatdeadhorse5:

[RICE RACING]

Smashed up a gay arsed video of it ..................

rx2GdCUHQdE&feature=youtu.be

[RICE RACING]

MOTHER OF GOD!

The COP adaptors are fully done! each end is sealed with O'Ring and all holes, edges, bores etc all done to within a fraction of a millimeter, not possible to make it any more compact or precise :dunno:

So much work :puke: but glad that element is over!

Till some of you get back to me and force me to redesign mounts LOL.
Had a drag person today ask me to do set up for 20B and custom coils, I almost had a stroke :117: so much more work hahaha.

[RICE RACING]

Fuel Injector O-Ring for coil end, fits like a finger in a bum. Totally sealed.
The spark plug end will have 2 O-rings using the factory ribs in counter bore, again tip top.

http://i.imgur.com/RVvqWBH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0GiYZYY.jpg

[neit_jnf]

awesome! I've been waiting on this!

I may have missed it but how do you account for varying sparkplugs people use these days? Or will these work only with certain recommended plugs?

Will these fit with P/S, A/C, etc on a LHD car? Thanks!

[RICE RACING]

Designed for racing spec purpose only
R7420 spark plugs and older platinum/platinum plugs versions.
I have not validated it but will check plug length of stock type plugs.

Other types of plugs (cheap shit versions) NO!
IF you run these then you are not the kind of person who would pay for my quality items anyway :) so it was never designed to suit that market.

Other aspects a few people are checking out RE: PS and AC etc

[speedjunkie]

I think this is the fastest I've ever seen anything be developed LOL. Well done, well done.:hurray::bowdown::party: I'm eager for people to measure for the PS and AC, and I might see if my buddy can measure between the engine and pump on my car. Or I might just get one regardless, knowing I can easily resell it if it doesn't fit my setup lol.

[Fendamonky]

Designed for racing spec purpose only
R7420 spark plugs and older platinum/platinum plugs versions.
I have not validated it but will check plug length of stock type plugs.

Other types of plugs (cheap shit versions) NO!
IF you run these then you are not the kind of person who would pay for my quality items anyway :) so it was never designed to suit that market.

Other aspects a few people are checking out RE: PS and AC etc

So these would work with the BUR#EQ(P) plugs then, correct?

[RICE RACING]

So these would work with the BUR#EQ(P) plugs then, correct?

From my memory they are the same dimension so yes, but will validate that this morning my time and post back. ;)

[TitaniumTT]

I think this is the fastest I've ever seen anything be developed LOL. Well done, well done.:hurray::bowdown::party: I'm eager for people to measure for the PS and AC, and I might see if my buddy can measure between the engine and pump on my car. Or I might just get one regardless, knowing I can easily resell it if it doesn't fit my setup lol.

Just move the damn pump!

So these would work with the BUR#EQ(P) plugs then, correct?

Just run the 7420's dude.... the reason I generally rec AGAINST colder plugs is because the ign system isn't up to snuff to properly fire the plugs. Change to colder shitty 6750 I think???? and need to "retune" the car because the AFR's are all over the place, then as you're pulling fuel out you see the EGT's go up... fuck that noise......
These coils I don't see as having a problem.

[speedjunkie]

Just move the damn pump!

But I don't wanna! lol I had the mounting bracket welded to the frame with the bolts sticking out, and I don't want to move the pump again and just leave all that exposed. If I could remove the bracket and make it look good like the stock frame again, I'd seriously think about it.

[RICE RACING]

OK!
I did a major redesign config, this is the best I can package it for OEM use.
Tell me what you think? its under 14mm past the front edge of the rotor housing now!
*New engine bracket mount
*New coil spacer mounts
*Re-Oriented COP adaptors

http://i.imgur.com/BHaKMts.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ItLcLBJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dpfkPfy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IPpqBaV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OtFZXHd.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bkZBkHP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZHqt4mk.jpg

[speedjunkie]

Wow, I didn't think it was possible to get them any more compact lol. That's pretty awesome.

[RICE RACING]

Wow, I didn't think it was possible to get them any more compact lol. That's pretty awesome.

Necessity is the motherfucker of all invention :smash:

[speedjunkie]

LOL it sure is.

[TitaniumTT]

I've said this about a million fucking times.... I REALLY hate making sparkplug wires.....

When can I order the COP adapters :squint:

[RICE RACING]

I've said this about a million fucking times.... I REALLY hate making sparkplug wires.....

When can I order the COP adapters :squint:

Yes great idea, I did not think I can supply the COP adaptors alone and (IGN-1A) obviously and people can make up their own mounting arrangements :suspect:

Just finishing off the design LOL (never ending story)!!!! last bit is O'ring sealing ..................... :smilielol5:

http://i.imgur.com/gZQaZWf.jpg

[RICE RACING]

A cautionary note: DIY'ers

My system is precision, IE there is no real weight of the coil assembly on the spark plugs themselves, all of this load is taken by the engine mounting bracket and transferred through the coil mounts to the single fasteners for each module, the spark plug and coil end are 'rubber mounted' through the O-Rings. IF you are going to do your own mounts you will need to do it to precision to allow no loads on the plug ends.

Just a note when I was talking to M&W today (who is kind enough to send me his latest CDI bespoke coil) and I will be designing a system around those for EXTREME Drag and other highest power use that mandates a CDI system.

[RICE RACING]

Here is a rough pictorial position relative to the front plate for those who like real pictures

http://i.imgur.com/XEV97GQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0Ic2ciR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/OyciV18.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dLwUzYw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TK6Ve0Z.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BykzT1Y.jpg

These pictures show the aspects of my design that make it so solid!
The coils spacers are supported against a shoulder thus eliminating 'torque' related movement downwards upwards forces, and they both interlock against each other and butt up against the lower lug of the engine bracket.
Its unfuckable and very very strong, despite its compact dimensions and small fasteners :)

http://i.imgur.com/Z9yBZ7S.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/85kVnZL.jpg

[Monkman33]

In for a set of the new compact design. I'll just make a bracket for my AC and alternator that clears the coils.

[C. Ludwig]

Lance could probably put together a coil with an end to mate directly to the spark plug instead of the HEI top currently on the coil. The expense you'll go through building what you have designed may warrant at least exploring a custom coil. He has many different versions of the coil currently. There may already be something in his catalog that works.

Any chance you can rotate the coils 180* to give more clearance at the front?

Love what you're doing here!

[Slides]

Any chance you can rotate the coils 180* to give more clearance at the front?

Love what you're doing here!

I know it would require redoing the block mount as well, but it would liberate more space.

[RICE RACING]

Lance could probably put together a coil with an end to mate directly to the spark plug instead of the HEI top currently on the coil. The expense you'll go through building what you have designed may warrant at least exploring a custom coil. He has many different versions of the coil currently. There may already be something in his catalog that works.

Any chance you can rotate the coils 180* to give more clearance at the front?

Love what you're doing here!

Wayne @ M&W Ignitions is sending me his new CDI coils so I can do a specific design for these.

For the IGN-1A instead of a bespoke coil end, I'd like to make something that will suit the many thousands of coils out there? prob makes most sense as the coils are inexpensive and would appeal to a majority of people?............ I am open to ideas on that, but a few people like Okada Projects (now IP) are doing modified versions of these that are better than the original so I'd like to keep with using that as my 'Inductive COP option'

Swinging the coil to be vertical means more space, will require new coil mounts and engine mount, I'll work on another version :nopity: :beatdeadhorse5: see what I come up with and how fast I can do it LOL. The issue I see with this is the chassis rail as well as a stupidly long coil spacer/bracket though :( I'll do a quick model of it, but I think it wont really work well.

[RICE RACING]

Hmmmm, I'll have to sleep on this I think :beatdeadhorse5:
Maybe should put some thought into trying to utilize the knock sensor mounting hole, but I don't really want to effect the function of the knock sensor (which would have to be repositioned) but it would get rid of all of the problems with different series of engines and center plates........

Dunno, I have the #1 design locked away (V2 OEM fitment).
This vertical iteration I don't like the long spacing of the coil, lower rail could be issue, I know on my last COP set up shit was very tight down there getting it on and off with the horizontal set up. The center mount would need to be much larger and I'd have to go with a 4 coil mounting fixing method to get over the length of a one piece mount with the coils mounted vertically.

http://i.imgur.com/9WrLKeh.jpg

[RICE RACING]

In for a set of the new compact design. I'll just make a bracket for my AC and alternator that clears the coils.

My gut feel at this stage says that will be the option I stay with, sorry you have to modify stuff, but these coils are very odd in the mounting and size, I'll keep working on it and if I come up with something amazing will post it :lol: I could be wrong though, wont be the first time :) will explore the vertical mounting options.

[RICE RACING]

OK I have tried every permutation of angle offset on the COP adaptors and IGN-1A and stacking vertically is a fucking nightmare, because the coils are Asymmetric it means there is very odd arrangements for the Fr and Rr coil modules (and it just looks shit house as well). :9898: The is no elegant solution available around that coil design except to mount them horizontally as I have in my compact 2nd version.

If packaging space is an issue I'd say stick with ign leads and where ever you mount your coils, or go race car spec, or wait till I design the CDI (latest gen M&W coil version).

The IGN-1A style coils are just fucked for packaging as you can see. :dunno: done the best I can with it, so unless I dream of a solution then this will be it for these........................

http://i.imgur.com/wwYc1Xe.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/59kuZXR.jpg

[almoststockfc]

I would be interested in the 2nd version. I like the more compact design.

[infernosg]

I'm paying attention. Chris (Ludwig) knows a setup like this would benefit me. It's too bad the Series 4/5 center housings don't have that little bolt hole though. Using the knock sensor hole isn't a bad idea for those using a cheaper engine management system like me.

[C. Ludwig]

That's 90*. I said 180*. :). In the original version the long side of the coil is facing forward. Flip it so the long side is toward the back. My guess is it still won't provide enough room for the AC compressor. I tried this a couple years ago. It's tight in there!





http://i.imgur.com/59kuZXR.jpg

[RICE RACING]

You end up with some interference between the coil tabs in one orientation and in the other (offset) I'll need the bevel one edge of each coil spacer mount .......... :banghead:

See what I can come up with, this way will clear as best it can and not interfere with heater coolant pipe as well, otherwise I would have spun it other way!

http://i.imgur.com/UPv7duJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZRDnycE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2cdcshF.jpg

[RICE RACING]

And this way the coils smash into each other and there is ZERO room for a mount on the center plate...........

http://i.imgur.com/55KfRGD.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Not possible to fit a proper mount in ~6mm space (plate + fastener).... well I would not feel good about it, I could recess something in not a worry I suppose, but add to that you will need to file down the tabs on the IGN-1A's as well as there is interference there too.

http://i.imgur.com/GkudmR0.jpg

[Fendamonky]

Looks awesome Peter!! Count me as down for the compact V2, adapter and mounts =)

[infernosg]

I'd be interested in just the COP adapters. I have a Series 4 center plate without the center mounting point so the interference isn't really a problem. I'm sure I could come up with something that uses the knock sensor locations.

[speedjunkie]

So it's confirmed that the PS and AC pumps would be in the way of this on the REW?

[RICE RACING]

So it's confirmed that the PS and AC pumps would be in the way of this on the REW?

I don't think anyone has validated that yet?
I do have all those systems stored away, if I get time will pull them out and mount to front plate and have a look physically at the potential interference :ugh2:

:18:

These coils are shit for fitment, so looks like V2 system is for people who are willing to move shit around to suit or run a car that is more 'race spec'

ONLY thing I can do to try to suit (well at least a 13B-REW rotor housing) is go for a knock sensor based central mounting method, this means can use the system on 1,2,3,4,5,6................. 25 rotor applications with ease, Will stack these coils 'vertically' and come up with a system like that, I think I will do the same with the M&W CDI coil as well, however! its got its own issues.

p.s. That shit wont work, I can run an analysis on it but will have to run a 'stupid' size mounting system as there is a big canter lever effect from that fixed point, would be vastly more complex as well I wont totally dismiss it, but my brain is telling me its going to be an abortion.

[RICE RACING]

I have thought of EVERY permutation and the below is the ONLY one that is viable, need some input if people are interested in me developing it?
Involves cutting off one of the tabs on all four coils (simply at the edge of the sleeve), then it will allow placement as per below and clear everything.

The coil bracket spacers will be 154mm long between centers and obviously new (13B-REW) engine bracket required.

I'll start fucking around with it anyway to show what I am thinking and that way you can decide if its what you want.

:beatdeadhorse5:

http://i.imgur.com/y5UqKne.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Working on V3 (vertical placement) :suspect:

http://i.imgur.com/VwUCS3T.jpg

[speedjunkie]

I don't think anyone has validated that yet?
I do have all those systems stored away, if I get time will pull them out and mount to front plate and have a look physically at the potential interference :ugh2:

:18:

These coils are shit for fitment, so looks like V2 system is for people who are willing to move shit around to suit or run a car that is more 'race spec'

ONLY thing I can do to try to suit (well at least a 13B-REW rotor housing) is go for a knock sensor based central mounting method, this means can use the system on 1,2,3,4,5,6................. 25 rotor applications with ease, Will stack these coils 'vertically' and come up with a system like that, I think I will do the same with the M&W CDI coil as well, however! its got its own issues.

p.s. That shit wont work, I can run an analysis on it but will have to run a 'stupid' size mounting system as there is a big canter lever effect from that fixed point, would be vastly more complex as well I wont totally dismiss it, but my brain is telling me its going to be an abortion.

Oh OK. The reason I said that was because Monkman was talking about making brackets to make it work for him, so I assumed it didn't fit. I'm certainly not asking YOU to do it, not after all the work you've put in already. If I was home I'd check on it myself. Honestly I like V2 the best. I doubt it will ever get more compact and optimized than that. I honestly think it would work with the AC and PS too, but maybe not. I'm not home to look at it. I'm planning on using dual knock sensors so I wouldn't get that one anyway, even if you did make it. So if V2 doesn't fit, oh well. I guess I'll have to pass. I'm hoping it does though.

[TitaniumTT]

Curious about placing things vertically :suspect::naughty::awesome:

[TitaniumTT]

It looks fucking killer though Peter :icon_tup:

[chibikougan]

Will make room on the 2

[RICE RACING]

You C-U-N-T-S are killing me :(
BUT I think this is the best one yet!
Before poofters start, ALL the coils are supported by the DON MEGANESS of my detail design, even though its one bolt now, they butt up against the internal shoulder of the boss (in this case the Fr vert mount) am working on the other one now and smash in some holes etc and will post the V3 finished product soon.................... :fawk:

http://i.imgur.com/rFZic4T.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jxRpQG5.jpg

[chibikougan]

You know you love it!

[RICE RACING]

OK

V3 vertical version
This will involve trimming off one tab on each coil.
Mounting is perfect, same merits as V2, full supported (detail in coil spacer mounts) and interlocked in engine bracket mount.

I officially call this the H for homo version cause its a big letter H :smilielol5:
Made especially for my friend Brian ;)

http://i.imgur.com/6KCuVxs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Rfm2TwD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mBRitmt.jpg

If this does not clear everything rip the c-u-n-t out and put in a chev :Chevy_anim:

[RICE RACING]

Updated, more detailed pics.....

http://i.imgur.com/3d7rCv3.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ke9pUoV.jpg

[silverfdturbo6port]

Im glad i came across this. I was just thinking the other day on my 20b how nice it would be to have COP.
With that said I really want to do this now.

[RICE RACING]

A few more difference views showing the detail of the V3 'H' design......

http://i.imgur.com/sa61RT1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7lI8F4M.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hZWokWt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xozCnHq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xxk4SSu.jpg

[RICE RACING]

And final pic!
All it requires is the trailing coil lower mounting tab to be cut off and filed back (specs provided in kit of dimension) and it will all fit like a finger in an anus!

Enjoy!

http://i.imgur.com/POLuiLD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HJcyzUL.jpg

[Slides]

Getting faster with the modelling anyway.

I will have to get a copy of Pro-E or something, I think I still have an old desktop with a copy on board. :party:

[RICE RACING]

Gold plated LOL

http://i.imgur.com/HY4Mx1x.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aDwLOt4.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Getting faster with the modelling anyway.

I will have to get a copy of Pro-E or something, I think I still have an old desktop with a copy on board. :party:

I dunno about faster.... as you know well ALL of this takes allot of time :smash: I'll be honest I am over COP's for a while! back to my apex seals :smash: ............... that is until the M&W coil turns up and I have to reinvent the wheel again :smash:

Then there is real work mixed between, getting 3 hours sleep a day is not enough :(

[Fendamonky]

Not to sound needy... But if you're going to have it where the lower mounting tab of the upper coil is cut off, why not add a second mount for the lower coil to bolt up to? Wouldn't that allow for a slightly more secure fit, as it would secure both ends of the lower coil and allow the lower coil to act as an anchor (of sorts) for the lower tab of the upper coil to rest against?

(I'm envisioning cutting the upper coils tab in an arc so that it will rest flush against the lower coil)


Sorry for more potential work, just thinking out loud here and I figure if you're making it fool proof, might as well go overboard :rofl:

[Fendamonky]

That, or just a tab worked into your H arms to fit flush against the non-secured side of the coils that would provide a little peace of mind against them potentially rotating/vibrating away from the COP adapters.

[infernosg]

What's the ETA on V3? Even though I don't have a REW center plate I can probably make something that'll work.

[RICE RACING]

Its not needed at all, as the coil is locked against the top tab and boss on the coil spacer (gold piece)
The design is finished, there is no need for further alterations. The coils cant move at all as is, no more supports are required.

[Fendamonky]

Its not needed at all, as the coil is locked against the top tab and boss on the coil spacer (gold piece)
The design is finished, there is no need for further alterations. The coils cant move at all as is, no more supports are required.

Ah, cool shit and good deal! :biggthumpup: That's why you're the Engineer and I'm the future customer :smilielol5:


Any thoughts on an ETA for these going into production? Depending on your time frame I may talk with Brian about him waiting to build my engine loom once these are done...

[RICE RACING]

It's hard for people to see as they don't have the CAD detail but these coils have a flat shoulder near the mounting tabs, if you pay close attention you will see all 4 ends on the coil spacers are different lengths to makes sure the butt up against these flat shoulders, so when a bolt is installed the coil cannot drop down or up or rotate at all, its not physically possible, thus the second mounting tab is redundant.

The GOLD coil spacers are so strong that to deflect them would need over 100kg of force and then the movement is minimal.

You could add (LOL I COULD!) in another middle mount in the coil spacers but would be not needed and just make it heavier and more complex, then it would need specialist cutting of both coils and you could not run two M7 bolts next to each other like that as there is no wall to thread both, let alone the head for the fastener and it would look stupid and serve no real purpose except for being along for the ride, thus I designed it as it is.

And its solid, cant move anywhere.

p.s. Th gold legs lost the feature on the bottom of the locking I describe, you see it in the silver versions!

Should fit the stock set up now with ease.

ETA dunno, hopefully soon once I see how many people want them?

[Fendamonky]

Awesome! Well, count me in for a set of mounts/COP adapters :)

(Though, if there will be color anodizing/coating options I'd rather have a gloss or flat black as opposed to gold ;) hehe)

[RICE RACING]

This is what it will look like, not rounded like the GOLD one, I was just fucking around with it. too hard to make like that too much machining :banghead:

In these pics you can see the shoulder thing I was describing on each coil making them impossible to move once bolted by a single tab.

A few more difference views showing the detail of the V3 'H' design......

http://i.imgur.com/sa61RT1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7lI8F4M.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hZWokWt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xozCnHq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xxk4SSu.jpg

OFF to be another fucking 2am day!

[RENESISFD]

^ Just a thought, what is the approximate distance from the housing is the back of the coil including the plug socket? For us LHD people is there a possibility of interference with the steering shaft?

[t_g_farrell]

This is very cool. Would this fit 12A spacing by just twisting the COP adapters a bit or does
the bracket need to be modified to do that? I suspect the twisting the adaptors won't line
up with the plugs well.

Whats the ballpark $$ on this? We talking 100s or 1000s of dollars? Plus shipping of course.

[TitaniumTT]

OK

V3 vertical version
This will involve trimming off one tab on each coil.
Mounting is perfect, same merits as V2, full supported (detail in coil spacer mounts) and interlocked in engine bracket mount.

I officially call this the H for homo version cause its a big letter H :smilielol5:
Made especially for my friend Brian ;)
If this does not clear everything rip the c-u-n-t out and put in a chev :Chevy_anim:

:smilielol5: :rofl: Thanks Peter! :icon_tup::willy_nilly:

[RICE RACING]

This is very cool. Would this fit 12A spacing by just twisting the COP adapters a bit or does
the bracket need to be modified to do that? I suspect the twisting the adaptors won't line
up with the plugs well.

Whats the ballpark $$ on this? We talking 100s or 1000s of dollars? Plus shipping of course.

Thanks,

If I were Adobe I should charge around $20,000 for this :biggrinjester:

But seriously I hope it to be in 100's range rather than 1000's cause otherwise I myself will run high tension leads :D or rip it all out and put in a boat anchor engine haha.

On the 12A front:
* COP Adaptors are universal (fit anything) :smash:
* Engine bracket needs redesign per engine
* Coil spacer brackets need adjustment to suit spark plug spacing in X & Y dimensions

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3008/suecar0042rz4rt.jpg
Would have to design an engine bracket mount that uses the bottom large hole in the center plate :smash:

Best to put a 13B-REW in it :smash:
http://www.bfhracing.org/duck/withmanifolds.jpg

[RICE RACING]

^ Just a thought, what is the approximate distance from the housing is the back of the coil including the plug socket? For us LHD people is there a possibility of interference with the steering shaft?

I have this dimension listed earlier on in the thread (spark plug tip to back of coil inc plug and harness connection estimate, V3 sits lower too v's V2 horizontal version), people need to check that one out, there is not much else I can do in the design sadly, it tweaked to within a mm of its life now. :smash:

[RICE RACING]

Have designed some little 'limit locks' that go under the cover plates, these lock the stroke of the spring, and can be placed by the customer to lock the COP adaptor to the coils or to the plugs (axial movement with range of groove/slot) when taking shit on and off...... idea is to lock it to the coil though.

[TitaniumTT]

Thanks,


Best to put a 13B-REW in it :smash:
]

:smilielol5:

I have this dimension listed earlier on in the thread (spark plug tip to back of coil inc plug and harness connection estimate, V3 sits lower too v's V2 horizontal version), people need to check that one out, there is not much else I can do in the design sadly, it tweaked to within a mm of its life now. :smash:

Sooooooooooooo who has a LHD FD with an engine in it?

[RICE RACING]

I tidied up the design of V3, this is the latest spec with rounded brackets, and showing the boss detail to lock in the coils with single bolt, fixed holes M7x1 threaded for coil mounting and M5 hole to Engine bracket mount.
I think it looks good ?

http://i.imgur.com/kUNLhhW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2pUd8S4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9byAxhD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XmIoGsQ.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Couple of high quality images for you to beat off too....

http://i.imgur.com/m65sABU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VndUEZh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kHa1iZs.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Little video..............

j6_tu30Fzxw&feature=youtu.be

[RICE RACING]

Another small revision to the coil spacers, cosmetic mostly larger radi in the coil section (fill it out) and transition to the center bracket.

This maybe the 'expensive version' versus the one that can essentially be fabricated! (flatter versions), it just depends on if people want a work of art or are cost focused :dunno:

http://i.imgur.com/2zA5bPY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KGNJRIO.jpg

[2gslse]

:smilielol5:



Sooooooooooooo who has a LHD FD with an engine in it?

I do.:fawk:

I'll talk to ya later

[RICE RACING]

Banged in a few fasteners :smash:

http://i.imgur.com/FGpWzgb.jpg

[Dannobre]

Can you post up the dimension from the face of the Housing..or the mounting point on the iron...to the back of the coils. Need to check how much room there is in my application.

It looks like they are approximately bounded by the width of the housings?

[TitaniumTT]

I do.:fawk:

I'll talk to ya later

Kewl, I'll be on the rd tomorrow from ~2 till whenever the traffic releases me :lol:

Banged in a few fasteners :smash:

What size are the fasteners? I though the one on the center plate was an M6x1.0...

[RICE RACING]

Kewl, I'll be on the rd tomorrow from ~2 till whenever the traffic releases me :lol:



What size are the fasteners? I though the one on the center plate was an M6x1.0...

It is :) see pic

The fasteners are
M6x1 engine bracket
M5x0.8 coil spacers x 2
M8x1 OR 1/4 inch (have not decided yet) x 4 for the coils.

http://i.imgur.com/Nni5pPX.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Can you post up the dimension from the face of the Housing..or the mounting point on the iron...to the back of the coils. Need to check how much room there is in my application.

It looks like they are approximately bounded by the width of the housings?

I posted up from the tip of the spark plug already, need to look for it.
I'll check for you later, its on page 2 or 3 or some shit. :smash:

[RICE RACING]

mung it

[TitaniumTT]

It is :) see pic

The fasteners are
M6x1 engine bracket

I see... I'm just an idiot....

M5x0.8 coil spacers x 2
M8x1 OR 1/4 inch (have not decided yet) x 4 for the coils.

It would be my preference to see an M8 there, however IIRC the bosses need to be honed for that to work.

This is a fabricated version of V3, I call this V4, cost should be much lower (well for the frame part anyway)! and I can offer the drawings (nominal fee) to people who are handy with a welder and a hammer! so they can make their own without guess work? just an idea.

The geometry and spacing is refined here in this version, for an expensive option on this will be a CNC smooth gag factor engine mount and coil spacers similar to the last pictures of V3 but I wont do this for a week or so as I am at CAD overload stage and

Looks awesome Peter... really really awesome...

Have you contacted any of the vendors stateside to see if they have an interest in distributing? I was going to do this with the MAP sensor mounts.... IF I EVER GET THEM :banghead::beatdeadhorse:

want to punch the screen with much intensity!

:smilielol5:

Too much other tuning and engine work to do so will be back on this in a week or so and let you know updates, hope there is enough info here for people to see wtf they want and we will go from there!

PG

I'm down, Levi seems down (And no, it won't delay the start of the LR instal ;)

[knonfs]

WOW, the mounts look effin AWESOME!

Peter, what are your thoughts on the ign-1a coil vs stock coils with a HKW twin power? stock coils with CDI boxes (MSD/crane)?

[RICE RACING]

WOW, the mounts look effin AWESOME!

Peter, what are your thoughts on the ign-1a coil vs stock coils with a HKW twin power? stock coils with CDI boxes (MSD/crane)?


Thanks man, shit is getting out of control :beatdeadhorse5:
I have finalized V3 design into two sub sets, one CNC made the other fabricated (I am talking about the coil spacers and engine mounting bracket here) the COP's are standardized.
I am trying to help the DIY'ers out there as well as those on a budget too how want champagne @ a beer price! .....

A sneak pic below (once I finalize all this shit I will smash it up on the front page/first post) to save confusion of so many fucking CAD iterations!) :rofl:


On the question of merits or recommendations on each system?
The HKS DLI and OEM coils work fantastic, I have my own dwell settings for the PFC which I put into this set up (my supported consultancy customers get this!) that allows that set up to run my RRWEP140 at a high rate and LOTS of power with a heavy target fuel mixture as well! ............. so it is very hard to beat that system, however without the correct dwell settings it will not work with water injection.

So then you are left to try these types of coils, these seem to work, and lots use them, thus me wasting my time designing and making all of this shit lol

Finally CDI, I dont care what anyone says after 20 years + doing this stuff NOTHING beats a proper CDI set up, the ultimate is M@W twin box system in pro drag spec (twin box allows it to be used in street ap without over heating) and their CDI coils, will fire anything and is used in all the most powerful methanol fueled cars on the planet.

[RICE RACING]

mung it

[Dannobre]

Work on getting a simplified machined piece without all the pretty curves and make enough to bring the price down...they will sell like hotcakes ;)

Don't get me wrong...I like the pretty ones..but they are going to be much more expensive to machine

[RICE RACING]

Work on getting a simplified machined piece without all the pretty curves and make enough to bring the price down...they will sell like hotcakes ;)

Don't get me wrong...I like the pretty ones..but they are going to be much more expensive to machine

Already done :)

V3V-GHETTO

Pics to follow once I finalize it :smash:
It will be a fabricated version, so people can weld it up to drawing specs or I may even TIG them together myself..........

[RICE RACING]

mung it

[Dannobre]

LOL...if you are making both I like the pretty ones....

[RICE RACING]

LOL...if you are making both I like the pretty ones....

First post update with the 3 versions locked down and ready to go to next stage.

Get an idea of numbers of people interested and I can see if volume makes 2 fucks worth of difference in getting them made :willy_nilly:

Over this shit for now, no more request LOL.

[RICE RACING]

NEW DESIGNS and model numbers on Monday :) ALL READY
3 versions
Horizontal coil orientation x 1
Vertical coil orientation x 2

Resolve issue of physical interference on one coil in location, only seen after many hours analysis and viewing various iterations.
Done major detail redesign of COP Adaptors (internals, spring system, fixing etc, and external) and associated items (mounts etc)....... all good :) now this is 100%. Thank god for CAD model no way you could do this without it !
Will include dimension critical items along with the three pics of the 'options' well only Horizontal and Vertical will have different dimensions.

Some of the internal detail is different in the COP, I wont be sharing this for public consumption here ;) but I guess eventually customers will post it ???? Either way not easy to make regardless let alone check so good luck to copy cats :)

[C. Ludwig]

I'll most likely be down for at least one set.

[neit_jnf]

I'm down for a vertical ghetto set :)

[speedjunkie]

I'm down for a set as long as it fits. Still waiting to hear back from my buddy on that.

[RICE RACING]

No problem, will get around to putting up the detail late today or early tomorrow.
Wanted to stab myself with my verniers yesterday when I saw the fitment problem! however out of it came the opportunity to re-think some design elements of the COP adaptors, and it was worth it.......... better than previous version and I can say that it is more optimized than before.

Saying is true 5% inspiration 95% perspiration, yesterday I felt 99% molestation when I had to go a redesign so many components LOL! :)

All good.

[silverfdturbo6port]

Im ready for the adaptors asap. I will be running them on the 20b

[RICE RACING]

I have a bit of time this afternoon, will smash up the pictures and some dimensions.
Main page and here as well.

[speedjunkie]

No problem, will get around to putting up the detail late today or early tomorrow.
Wanted to stab myself with my verniers yesterday when I saw the fitment problem! however out of it came the opportunity to re-think some design elements of the COP adaptors, and it was worth it.......... better than previous version and I can say that it is more optimized than before.

Saying is true 5% inspiration 95% perspiration, yesterday I felt 99% molestation when I had to go a redesign so many components LOL! :)

All good.

You had to redesign them again? Or are you talking about doing V3? What fitment problem are you talking about?

[RICE RACING]

You had to redesign them again? Or are you talking about doing V3? What fitment problem are you talking about?

:smash: One COP adaptor interfered with the IGN-1A coil when in vertical orientation :smash: so this meant a full redesign of the COP adaptror!!! :smash: I took the opportunity to refine some internal specifications (much better) only took 6 hours work LOL. Then as a result of that I have had to alter the 3 x engine brackets (ghetto Vertical, CNC Vertical, CNC Horizontal) Coil spacers did not need changing! .............. but I had to do allot of work :squint:

Here is all the FINALIZED (please mother go god!) options.
Dimensions are from Trailing plug tip (R7420) to the back edge of the IGN-1A case molding (add plug male and female connections to that), and from the front rotor housing edge to the (next the the end plate) to the furthest protrusion on the COP set up, for the horizontal it sits forward of this edge and the Vertical it sits behind this edge

RRCOP13BREW-IGN1A-HM Horizontal mounting :o15:
http://i.imgur.com/zFSYs7V.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dFiPezL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/M6JX3Av.jpg

RRCOP13BREW-IGN1A-VM Vertical mounting ;)
http://i.imgur.com/OeEemNH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hKsST8C.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gUKv40B.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4amkVA4.jpg

RRCOP13BREW-IGN1A-VF Vertical 'ghetto' fabricated mounting :D
http://i.imgur.com/jpYIuVn.jpg

RRCOP-IGN1A-A COP adaptors for separate supply for DIY'ers :smash:
http://i.imgur.com/p739Gau.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xTnGR9k.jpg

[Fendamonky]

You can count me in for a setup. Since I'm still running PS i figure I'll go with the vertical one, as it'll afford the most possible clearance :)

I think I may have a few other people that are interested as well :)

[Dannobre]

Vertical

[marco]

mainly a lurker on this forum, but I offered up some aem coils vertically to my engine (has side mount alternator) and there looks to be plenty of space. please put me down for a set when they go into production.

[RICE RACING]

*Updated front page of this thread for people who may not know much about how I have been running COP's for a looooooong time, all proven :)*

Some stress analysis

Designed to take over 50kg of load, with less than 0.5mm deflection at its furthest point :)
In actual operation in the engine bay, pretended it was an off road stadium truck jumping lol!!!
The engine bracket will deflect 0.02mm and has a safety factor of around 50! so its plenty strong :)

http://i.imgur.com/4DUU6x0.jpg

[RICE RACING]

I was just holding my ign 1a coild and they are weighty. Im not sure I trust that small mounting point to support them. I love the idea. Just would like to see a more robust mounting method.

Stress and deflection analysis done, see first page :smash:
as said its tough as f*ck :smash:

[RICE RACING]

New M&W CDI coil (COI-006) arrived today.

Will design a 13BREW system around these in vertical fitment, these will not need a COP adaptor :18: since its female on the coil end so will design a bespoke spring arrangement with rubber boot, similar to what I did with the Dynatek CDI coils (only similar that its a linear end on end fitment.

IF no COP adaptor will need new coil bracket spacers.
This is a preferred option.
Will NOT be able to 'interchange' these easily.

[FC Zach]

Count me in for one of these! RRCOP13BREW-IGN1A-VM

[RICE RACING]

Count me in for one of these! RRCOP13BREW-IGN1A-VM

O.K.

What I will do is when I officially have the PP version in my hand will come back here and 'ACTIVATE' the purchase request, at the moment I am starting the production process of the *-VM version and the COP adaptors as #1 priority.
Some components getting made as this goes up here :302:

Touch wood will have pricing to follow.

Peter

[RICE RACING]

A different view...............

http://i.imgur.com/5Zn8hpz.jpg

[infernosg]

At the very least, I'm in for a set of the COP adapters, RRCOP-IGN1A-A. Still debating if I can use the full ghetto vertical mount setup, RRCOP13BREW-IGN1A-VF, to my advantage.

[Prodigy]

New M&W CDI coil (COI-006) arrived today.

In for epic Ignition system...
If you don't mind me asking Peter, how much retail do these guys go for?

Also, do you have any pictures of them?


J.

[RICE RACING]

In for epic Ignition system...
If you don't mind me asking Peter, how much retail do these guys go for?

Also, do you have any pictures of them?


J.

Around $100 a coil from memory

Physically connector is on front (pictured attached)
Not 'much' different to IGN-1A
Work has started on that, though wont be as fast as last system development as I have 1 million things on the go at once! :o15: :D

http://i.imgur.com/hwicXiH.jpg

[Fendamonky]

Count me in for one of these! RRCOP13BREW-IGN1A-VM

+1

[speedjunkie]

It's not THAT much more expensive. I was thinking like $200 per coil or something.

[Mazdabater]

How much is one of these setups gonna cost me rice? I haven't posted in a while but I have a GTX4202r sitting in the shed now. Waiting to get some work before I blow to much more money working on the car lol

[RICE RACING]

How much is one of these setups gonna cost me rice? I haven't posted in a while but I have a GTX4202r sitting in the shed now. Waiting to get some work before I blow to much more money working on the car lol

I should have a 'cost' soon, but I need to validate the PP versions physically FIRST prior to going off half cocked Howard Coleman style and taking years to separate fact from fiction LOL......

As I type this I have the last elements being sorted, so I think I can get back to the detail in a fair time frame.

[RICE RACING]

It's not THAT much more expensive. I was thinking like $200 per coil or something.

Should have it modeled today :smash:

[RICE RACING]

M&W (COI-006) drawn up, looks like will not go vertical without some thought (gotta flip shit around) will :smash: it in there :)

New headaches start!!!!

http://i.imgur.com/AgJFFxk.jpg

4.46mm back from the front rotor housing edge (not as good as the IGN-1A
can use 4 holes to bolt down.
Still needs odd mounts due to offset on flanges, cant have coils lined up as wiring harness plugs smash into spark plugs sadly.
This is only way to fit it vertical, otherwise will work on horizontal version

http://i.imgur.com/bwN7nEz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dcixZSA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/boKsUe3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LOrmGfS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/36ci54H.jpg

Coil needs to be spaced out to achieve a horizontal fit, kinda defeating the benefits of the female coil end......
http://i.imgur.com/nQKgKOn.jpg

Only way I know how to fix this is to trim back the connector interface on the coil, potting it and fitting an autosport connector or DT series (similar to my original COP on first page) more remote style quick disconnecting position. This would free up some room, but not make it true 'plug n play'.

Leave it with you all to mull over, if it was my own set up, then I would molest the coils fuck off the connector and trim it right back and gain 15mm space, and run the remote connector interface
horizontal will need lots of mods to make it work/fit.

molested coil below, needs connector trimmed, holes drilled in it, 3 wires inserted and fixed, pot the other side of the connector end, heat shrink and another connector, up in the bay where you can get to it, as on the front is a c-u-n-t.
http://i.imgur.com/zkagsM1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/4ZpIPEH.jpg

[RICE RACING]

The M&W coil ideally is a Vertical Mount only as is, and no need to modify the coil, depending on 'demand' for this I will put this project on a lower priority :dunno: and fit it in when I have time to develop new coil spacers, engine bracket mount will be the same as in the IGN-1A 'VM', and will have new boot and spring coupling or adaption.

Simple, now just to do it!

p.s. the coils will only use a single bolt (lower tab on trailing and upper tab on leading coil) and body of casing for location as it is more than ample fixing method.

[RICE RACING]

M&W coil bracket F (front)
Using same engine bracket as in IGN-1A system !

http://i.imgur.com/ZyTUnx1.jpg

p.s. checked this physically on engine and coil mating plug clears the knock sensor *just* so all looks good, this system will interchange with the IGN-1A coil set up :biggthumpup:

[RICE RACING]

This is the completed M&W CDI coil bracket system.
Will still need to work on COP interface *easy* compared to this stuff, will just do a rubber spark plug boot with internal coil spring, as its so short and fully encased by the coil tower will need no noise attenuation either...

http://i.imgur.com/FXqWu6S.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rUrbzXn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PF0O0DT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xKvJxYd.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZisGXVO.jpg

[RICE RACING]

mung it

[almoststockfc]

Could you explain what comes in your kit? Bracket, hardware, etc. etc.

[RICE RACING]

Could you explain what comes in your kit? Bracket, hardware, etc. etc.

4 x COP adaptors
(each one of these has a cover plate, internal contact buttons, and a spring, O-ring seals)
2 x Coil spacer/mounts
(FRONT and a REAR mount)
1 x Engine bracket/mount
(mounts off center plate)
Fasteners for the mounts x 3 and for the COP cover plates x 16
(all fasteners required to complete assembly)
Instruction sheet, with CAD pictures of fitment, and instructions
(Detail on assembly and trim needed to trailing coil tab and how to do that with step by step pictorial illustrations.)

[infernosg]

Email sent. I'm in for a set of just the COP adapters.

[Fendamonky]

Preliminary Pricing is as pending me getting 10 buyers here, can supply within a month time frame:

RRCOP13BREW-IGN1A-VM Vertical mounting
$995US

RRCOP-IGN1A-A adaptors for separate supply
$126US *each* so for 13B = $504

So anyone who is here who wants this the process now is to send me an E-Mail! (only) please, link below to my web site, this way I can track it and process it, cant go through whole thread as you can understand and see I am VERY BUSY, designing, testing, building this and many other things :smash: so thanks for your understanding.

Hope to hear from you on email.

Peter,

Are those prices including shipping?

For those who are having difficulty navigating Peters site, his email is: peter@riceracing.com.au

[RICE RACING]

Peter,

Are those prices including shipping?

For those who are having difficulty navigating Peters site, his email is: peter@riceracing.com.au

out of the goodness of my heart :18: yes shipped, to sweeten deal :tongue1:

[Fendamonky]

out of the goodness of my heart :18: yes shipped, to sweeten deal :tongue1:

:kiss:

[speedjunkie]

I'm assuming the prices for the other versions will be around $995 also, is that correct? I'm still waiting to hear back from my buddy. He did the measurements but lost the paper he wrote them on lol.

[RICE RACING]

I'm assuming the prices for the other versions will be around $995 also, is that correct? I'm still waiting to hear back from my buddy. He did the measurements but lost the paper he wrote them on lol.

The M&W version should be a little less as there will be no complex COP Adaptor innvolved (but this will be offset buy expense of buying CDI boxes obviously.

The 'ghetto' version I will not make since price of the CNC machined one is pretty good. Horizontal will not have enough demand so its on the back burner as well, as its a small market, that the vertical will cover anyway.

[RICE RACING]

Showing stress/deflection analysis which helped me determine design of last lot of parts (M&W version) this load is 'like' hanging an engine rotor off this part! :lol: (5 times more load than it will see in reality)

http://i.imgur.com/VKNwmiT.jpg

[RICE RACING]

I am interested in acquiring a kit.

What's the eta on production ?

Less than a month from now........... pending demand from here. :willy_nilly:

[RICE RACING]

I'm down for a vertical ghetto set :)

See first page, 'ghetto' will be eliminated since the cost benefit does not warrant the ghettoness of the end product.

Just CNC version in vertical is being made.

[FC Zach]

Email sent.

[RICE RACING]

Just to give people some idea of the completeness of the designs, here is me addressing one 'interference issue' on the M&W set up, multiple sections everywhere to check all kinds of things....... good luck to anyone who wants to copy it LOL.

Shit is what I would class 99.9% perfect now across all offerings.

http://i.imgur.com/F2WchPz.jpg

This little bloke *Habib* helps with the long hours of sanity testing tedious validations !

http://i.imgur.com/s1280o3.jpg

NOTE: all coils are fully supported on the 'shoulder' thus one bolt mounting method suffices... is rock solid across both systems (IGN-1A and M&W) they cant rotate anywhere and are super secure too ;)
(the odd shaped 'red bits' around the bolt holes are the threads cut in a plane, not out of round holes haha)

http://i.imgur.com/NziEjc9.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Finalized the horizontal IGN-1A version (for those with race car set up) or who want to move stuff around to get this to fit.
http://i.imgur.com/IMYj8sE.jpg

[Prodigy]

The M&W version should be a little less (but this will be offset by the expense of buying CDI boxes obviously.


How much for this guy :D


J.

[RICE RACING]

How much for this guy :D


J.

I'll tell you in next couple of days, after I recover from fatigue doing all of this stuff in last two weeks. I just have to finalize the boots springs, and pricing on the coil brackets that are more complex than on the IGN-1A system.

HC way of saying I dont fucken know yet LOL :beatdeadhorse5:

[RICE RACING]

Start work today on bespoke boot and spring for M&W 'race car' set up.
have decided what I want now to model it up and get out to manufacture!

http://i.imgur.com/KVZnVrc.jpg

[RICE RACING]

RR bespoke design rubber sealing boots! :smash:

http://i.imgur.com/JYWFdTM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hj3xE1A.jpg

M&W system all done! contact and boot finished
Price to follow......
http://i.imgur.com/hbyss6p.jpg

[RICE RACING]

RR bespoke boots and springs for the M&W CDI option, all completed, should be in my hands soon, got a serious car where you want the best engineered coil mounting solutions? then this is what you want, forever promised by others and never delivered!

RR way from design idea to production reality in less than 3 weeks!!!!

Separating Facts from Fiction! in days................... NOT FUCKING YEARS unlike on some forums !!!!!

http://i.imgur.com/MA7qyXC.jpg

[RICE RACING]

How much for this guy :D


J.

One more day and I can finalize the price, will smash it up on the first page/post for everyone's convenience.

[RICE RACING]

How much for this guy :D


J.

$888US shipped
Will put it up on first page.

[Mazdabater]

So what's that in normal $$

[RICE RACING]

So what's that in normal $$

E-Mail me ;)
Have been contacted by quote a few 'workshops' about these and looks like lots of people will run them! kiss good bye ignition leads :)
Drug Money no object drag racers are gagging over the M&W system.

[Mazdabater]

Sent ****

[RICE RACING]

Getting asked allot of this on email so best to post here:

CDI v's ghetto inductive (all up costs)
NOTE: all systems ratted to run constant duty street or road race applications

CDI RR option 1: 250mJ
M&W coils (x 4) + (Pro Drag 2 CDI box x 2) + RR COP kit
= ~$2700US

CDI RR option 2: 115mJ
M&W coils (x 4) + (Pro14R CDI box x 1) + RR COP kit
= ~$2030US

Inductive RR option 3: 103mJ
IGN-1A coils + RR COP kit
=~$1300US

[RICE RACING]

O.K. PP parts due here around middle February, I will take physical shots and all going well be ready to fill orders by end of that month :smash:

:party:

[RICE RACING]

Have also developed the horizontal mount in the IGN-1A version. All versions will be here in about 3 weeks time :biggthumpup: :tongue1:

[RICE RACING]

Not long to go now, got a few people e-mails, need some more for me to extend some favorable pricing otherwise GB is dead as aBDC half bridge after one of his famous tunes consulting to HC.

I will have the following physically to show........ (very soon!):

1 x Horizontal Mount (race cars) IGN-1A
1 x Vertical Mount (factory set up) IGN-1A
1 x Vertical Mount (M&W CDI version)

They are all gold anodized too :)
The COP adaptors are a work of art!
Much more refined than what I have posted here
All with stainless steel internals all heat treated and fully o'ring sealed (inc cover)

Gag factor good :)

[FC Zach]

Cant wait to see!

[speedjunkie]

I think I'm going to have to wait until I get home in March to take a look myself to see if they'll fit with my setup, but I doubt they will. :(

[silverfdturbo6port]

Im so ready for a set of the couplers for my aem smart coils for the 20b.
The anticipation is killing me.

[RICE RACING]

Im so ready for a set of the couplers for my aem smart coils for the 20b.
The anticipation is killing me.

Me too!!! :smash:

It's like a late Christmas, I am having my new batch of STEEL SCIENCE apex seals ready too :party: latest update is around Feb 15th or so I'll have physical here so will take pictures then of it mounted up so people can gag over it.

After that I'll start filling orders. :o16:

[RICE RACING]

Ordered all of the 'green' viton O-Rings today for the COP Adaptors.
Looks fucken sick! against the black covers and body, may even go with Titanium screws if you are lucky :)

[RICE RACING]

get on it

http://i.imgur.com/m0uYgGV.jpg

[infernosg]

^^^ Kinda wish I was more observant and knew more about these. Unfortunately I already dropped too much $$$ on ceramic seals a couple years ago (build is on year 4). It's a low-power N/A build so I'm hoping I'll be okay.

[RICE RACING]

^^^ Kinda wish I was more observant and knew more about these. Unfortunately I already dropped too much $$$ on ceramic seals a couple years ago (build is on year 4). It's a low-power N/A build so I'm hoping I'll be okay.

They are a lottery alright, due to internal defects in all ceramics (regardless of cost or vendor) they just vary in intensity and are packaged as such (Gold seals for example lol).... These c-u-n-t-s all let go at random seemingly due to this fatal flaw, even on NA applications.

Safest thing is to fuck them off and sell to someone else and use a product that will never suffer in a catastrophic way, so that means no Mazda, Cast Iron, Carbon (the seal wont fuck your motor, but the springs will!) or Ceramics can ever go into any engine, as all of these will fail in this fashion, The general rule is if you cant smash it with a hammer without braking then it should NOT go into your engine. And if it distorts after smashing it with a hammer, it should NOT go into your engine either! there is ONLY ONE PRODUCT that can pass these two tests (and all others!) and that is STEEL SCIENCE.

[project86]

Ill admit that i didn't read through this entire thread. So if the question was already answered I'm sorry. But with your COP set up (I did see the price $2700USD if i remember) are you including coils with the brackets?

also i think its pretty awesome that you're making apex seals too!!!

[RICE RACING]

Ill admit that i didn't read through this entire thread. So if the question was already answered I'm sorry. But with your COP set up (I did see the price $2700USD if i remember) are you including coils with the brackets?

also i think its pretty awesome that you're making apex seals too!!!

The ones listed with prices is compete.
IGN-1A is (RR mounting and adaptors + coils)
M&W is (RR mounting + boots + internal connections + CDI box or box's + M&W coils) 2 options in this version
They are all with Titanium fasteners throughout as well !

Yes the apex seals are my life work, everything about them is the BEST, all are parts life and database recorded, even the case they come in 'exotic', really warrant the price from a complete package for those who demand the ultimate in every aspect. This market has never seen anything like it before now, and no one will ever be able to copy it on any level (leave that shit to the 20+ other jokers in the space). the final full 'as shipped' production versions I'll do a full photo shoot on once ready in a couple of weeks time.

[infernosg]

They are a lottery alright, due to internal defects in all ceramics (regardless of cost or vendor) they just vary in intensity and are packaged as such (Gold seals for example lol).... These c-u-n-t-s all let go at random seemingly due to this fatal flaw, even on NA applications.

Safest thing is to fuck them off and sell to someone else and use a product that will never suffer in a catastrophic way, so that means no Mazda, Cast Iron, Carbon (the seal wont fuck your motor, but the springs will!) or Ceramics can ever go into any engine, as all of these will fail in this fashion, The general rule is if you cant smash it with a hammer without braking then it should NOT go into your engine. And if it distorts after smashing it with a hammer, it should NOT go into your engine either! there is ONLY ONE PRODUCT that can pass these two tests (and all others!) and that is STEEL SCIENCE.

You got me. Email sent inquiring about the seals. We'll see how much more money you can get out of me :)

EDIT: Just came across some old discussions on RX7Club where you were praising the NRS ceramic seals (back in '05, I think). Knowing your stance on ceramics seals now, what changed? I'm not calling you out and I understand the low impact strength of ceramics. I'm just generally curious why the change of heart?

Patiently waiting on the COP adapters too. They'll save me ~4 ft of wiring harness and eliminate the need for four ~2 ft ignition leads.

[RICE RACING]

You got me. Email sent inquiring about the seals. We'll see how much more money you can get out of me :)

EDIT: Just came across some old discussions on RX7Club where you were praising the NRS ceramic seals (back in '05, I think). Knowing your stance on ceramics seals now, what changed? I'm not calling you out and I understand the low impact strength of ceramics. I'm just generally curious why the change of heart?

Patiently waiting on the COP adapters too. They'll save me ~4 ft of wiring harness and eliminate the need for four ~2 ft ignition leads.

What changed was I bought over 70 sets of ceramics from Sven, I learned the 'hard way' that ALL ceramic products are 100% FUCKING SHIT! just like every other person has done in reality. I found on through exposure to that many end users through all different applications that this many customers go through, what I found was RAMPANT unexplainable FAILURES, ones that happened with NO formal reason, no fault of customer, but ALWAYS this was blamed on something (convenient excuse) for Sven. To his defense I went through exactly the same thing with Ianetti as well, random failures, and ALL of these I find out through using more than any one else is to do with a fundamental lack of FRACTURE TOUGHNESS and this is an inherent flaw in ceramic materials. They ALL have this flaw in them, they ALL have internal defects like all materials do have, but in ceramic case its a flaw that the material simply cannot handle in any engine application and under the normal stresses and stains of operation (even NA) they just randomly fail!!! (as I was seeing through my extensive customer base have sold so many sets of these pieces of shit).

If you look close its not just me who says this (though I have more experience than anyone on this due to the volume I supplied to so many end users), and all go through exactly the same thing (rampant non explained failure methods) that 99 times out of 100 end up in an engine that totally goes into the parts bin!!!!! And in a turbo engined case its a given that this is what will happen.

After so many years and going through that experience first hand I said to myself FUCK THIS!@ there has to be a better way to engineer the merits of a ceramic material but also have the positives of the ductility of a ferrous material that is specified and treated right. It took me near 7 years of testing to come up with my own specification that does it, and it does it like no other. I made something that is failure proof, but is compatible with the rotor housing surface. Its made for life, and its engineering quality rewrites the book on how something should be made, not cheap, but its the best by a long margin over anything else made to date.

From every bad experience we learn something and the main point is to make a better product, if this principle was not followed then we would never have had better rotary engines, instead being stuck with the 10A shitbox LOL, so yes its a constant evolution until you actually solve a problem. I have the best apex seals ever devised, does it mean now I will rest? NO! I will keep on going like I have the last 22 years and keep on leading the way in development and pioneering the best solutions, be in COP, Water Injection, or APEX SEALS :)

[project86]

The $1300 option still has everything needed to work minus the CDI box? What is the purpose of the CDI box? Forgive my ignorance.

[RICE RACING]

The $1300 option still has everything needed to work minus the CDI box? What is the purpose of the CDI box? Forgive my ignorance.

The $1300 option uses the IGN-1A type ignition coil, this coil has an inbuilt high current driver which builds up current in the primary side of the coil, so far as wiring this system simply needs the 4 channels of ignition fed to each coil. NOTE: IF you run an Apexi PFC type ECU with wasted leading spark, this system is not suitable as there is not enough time between firing events to build up sufficient energy in the coil.

For a wasted spark set up (Apexi PFC or any other ECU set up this way) you will need a custom 3 box CDI set up!!! (not listed) you will need 2 x boxes to do the leading plugs and 1 x box to do the trailing plugs, I wont bore you with details but its how it is for same reasons as the IGN-1A in a round about way!

Best thing to do is FUCK OFF the Apexi PFC and put in an Adaptronic ECU that can be set to run in sequential ignition mode (4 channels) then you can use ANY of the set ups I have listed. :smash:

[RICE RACING]

The $1300 option still has everything needed to work minus the CDI box? What is the purpose of the CDI box? Forgive my ignorance.

The CDI box sends the DON MEGA high voltage to the low resistance CDI specific coils, the coils act as a step up transformer amplifying the voltage to INSANE levels. This process is super fast!... NOTE: it still takes time to build up the 'power' in the Capacitors and this is why even with multi channel boxes you need a certain minimum time between firing events to make the full rated capacity of that specific CDI box. For the M&W rotary box it can only do this on a sequential 4 channel ECU sending even spaced spark events out of the ECU (IE Apexi PFC does not do this on Leading plugs).

It IGN-1A uses inductance and takes time to build up the primary side voltage and current to a level that is acceptable enough, then as this field collapses it induces a secondary high voltage through magnetic inductance in the secondary winding of the coil, its a slow ass process, that is very dependent on 'dwell' or charge time. IF you don't have enough time to build up the charge then the c-u-n-t-s have very low power and will misfire, so cant be used on wasted spark engines (OEM and PFC), and they always struggle at high RPM due to the proportional loss of dwell time available to build up sufficient energy through this slow ass process...... this is why the c-u-n-t-s are shit on 2 stroke / WANKEL high rev applications as there is such low time between firing events ........... hope this makes sense?

[Mazdabater]

If anyone wants a cheaper setup I have HKS dli I brought off Rice himself and I now wanna run COP. Inbox me. $350 with FD loom (Thats AUD so probably work out cheaper for u cunts)

I realise Im sorta hacking your thread here but it's so I can try afford COP while I'm unemployed =P

[project86]

The CDI box sends the DON MEGA high voltage to the low resistance CDI specific coils, the coils act as a step up transformer amplifying the voltage to INSANE levels. This process is super fast!... NOTE: it still takes time to build up the 'power' in the Capacitors and this is why even with multi channel boxes you need a certain minimum time between firing events to make the full rated capacity of that specific CDI box. For the M&W rotary box it can only do this on a sequential 4 channel ECU sending even spaced spark events out of the ECU (IE Apexi PFC does not do this on Leading plugs).

It IGN-1A uses inductance and takes time to build up the primary side voltage and current to a level that is acceptable enough, then as this field collapses it induces a secondary high voltage through magnetic inductance in the secondary winding of the coil, its a slow ass process, that is very dependent on 'dwell' or charge time. IF you don't have enough time to build up the charge then the c-u-n-t-s have very low power and will misfire, so cant be used on wasted spark engines (OEM and PFC), and they always struggle at high RPM due to the proportional loss of dwell time available to build up sufficient energy through this slow ass process...... this is why the c-u-n-t-s are shit on 2 stroke / WANKEL high rev applications as there is such low time between firing events ........... hope this makes sense?


Yes.. so its for speed and strength of the spark the coil is giving. So it would work fine with out the CDI box if it was run on a standalone system like Haltech?

[RICE RACING]

Yes.. so its for speed and strength of the spark the coil is giving. So it would work fine with out the CDI box if it was run on a standalone system like Haltech?

Haltech (only one that cant is the PFC) can use the IGN-1A effectively, yes.

[project86]

Haltech (only one that cant is the PFC) can use the IGN-1A effectively, yes.

gotcha. Well... eventually ill be very interested :coolgleamA:

as soon as I'm ready to get the engine all built up. I'm working on getting the rest of the car ready to receive the good ol engine.

by the way .. your use of the term "donmega" makes me giggle. I assume it means "awesome" but i like it :rofl:

[RICE RACING]

gotcha. Well... eventually ill be very interested :coolgleamA:

as soon as I'm ready to get the engine all built up. I'm working on getting the rest of the car ready to receive the good ol engine.

by the way .. your use of the term "donmega" makes me giggle. I assume it means "awesome" but i like it :rofl:


I coined the term eons ago, its derived from the 'megladon' which is a big fuck off shark that rules the ocean, I thought it sounded catchy so reversed the saying to Don Mega!
Been using it everywhere since haha.

[RICE RACING]

Measured a PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT apex seal made by the useless c-u-n-t-s 'power seals' snapped the turd with a pair of pliers LOL and the piece I have left is factory ground on a taper LOL, bottom of it is 1.932mm and top is 1.945mm LOL!!!!!! only 0.013mm deviation in thickness over 8mm distance!!!!!!!

Fucking piece of crap! These seal TOTALLY RAPED a brand new set of rotor housings too LOL, and they broke in the engine as well hahaha.

http://i.imgur.com/FkaGTSY.jpg

Mind you this is the same c-u-n-t (Kev from SCR) who sent me his prototype SCR seals in 2005, these turned up in a GLAD snap lock bag and were sanded on on the flats in figure of 8 pattern LOL and made from BHP mild steel cold drawn bar black bar LOL.

These shonky made 'Power Seals' are not much better, what the fuck do you expect for ~$300 LOL

You get what you pay for, in this case A LOT LESS !
It pieces of fucking garbage like this and the list is longer than my cock! (one shit product after another!) that made me say 'fuck all these asshats!' it about time someone made a decent apex seal product
that actually has some engineering pedigree behind it and will actually work!

[project86]

Maybe you can get mazda interested ;)

[RICE RACING]

Maybe you can get mazda interested ;)

They are way too expensive in material and processing to make for OEM to be interested.

The special work alone in processing is over 20 hours work in each set, they would never be down for that. They cost me allot! but money was no object in coming up with a solution I found acceptable.

Mazda on the other hand have a very different design brief, lowest cost, durability, safety factor, and power limit many orders lower.

I can make the Mazda seal for around $15 a piece (main beam and corner), the material is basic shit, the hardening of the tip is 'simple', the finish is average. I am sure they get it made for less than that. For the application they are o.k. (just) and I am sure Mazda can make it for less than I could? outsourcing to Mahle or similar company..... either way they make an absolute killing on the parts when selling it to end users, that is a fact.

[RICE RACING]

Back to the thread!

Not long to go now people, if you want this then show me the money!
Will go to ones who have emailed already.

Thanks

[RICE RACING]

Almost ready !!!!! Want some ?????

:coolgleamA: :fawk: :auto:

http://i.imgur.com/FMJlwJ6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jlHa6uv.jpg

[Fendamonky]

Where's the "Like" button??? :)

[RICE RACING]

Where's the "Like" button??? :)

Only 'gag factor' button, ask TTT he knows where it is ;)

[TitaniumTT]

:smilielol5: Gag Factor Button AKA Tonsils :rofl:

[Fendamonky]

Only 'gag factor' button, ask TTT he knows where it is ;)

:smilielol5: Gag Factor Button AKA Tonsils :rofl:

:awesome: AND doing that comes with its own warm reward :lol:

[RICE RACING]

Some finished pics due today/tomorrow :) :auto:
Also latest batch of apex seals too, once things slow down a bit I'll have these always on hand, ready to go. New Year always a shit time to get things sorted :icon_no2:

[RICE RACING]

Just some quick pics before I ship these out to big Japan workshop

http://i.imgur.com/sF1GX74.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fhiqk6Y.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0GbPSTw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/y6E3EUs.jpg

[speedjunkie]

Would you ever think about making a 1pc version?

[RICE RACING]

Would you ever think about making a 1pc version?

I can make anything for peoples requirements not a problem, but no I would not make one piece (or should say offer them as a solution) as the sealing has a leak path.

Mine are so good that there is no leak path, zero, :bowdown: no need for run in or any bullshit like that. BUT its very very very hard to make them as well as I have.

I'd rather suggest people run a semi PP motor than a full bridge just to get around the shitty one piece seal idea as you just loose too much performance with them.

[speedjunkie]

Did not know that. Thanks for the info!

[RICE RACING]

Did not know that. Thanks for the info!

no worries, there is allot more info I could share but dont want to look like Howard Coleman LOL.

[speedjunkie]

Oh come on, you could be like the anti-HC lol.

[RICE RACING]

All O'rings have arrived for COP Adaptors, will be a little while longer till I have the finished items, been snowed under!

quick update.

[FC Zach]

Anxiously waiting :toetap05: :cheers2:

[RICE RACING]

Anxiously waiting :toetap05: :cheers2:

*should* be finished tomorrow! :dunno:

[Pantera EFI]

Hi Peter, your brackets look great!

I am of GREAT concern with your "pictured" coil boot design.

The coil boot MUST by long enough to contact the steel of the fitted spark plug.
YOUR design allows for an Air Gap that will conduct the spark AWAY from the inside of the plug!

The use of MY IGN-x (a coil family), your pictured IGN-1A AND the IGN-1CD, MUST be kept to HIGH STANDARD.

Thus please correct your boot design.

Lance

[chibikougan]

Hi Peter, your brackets look great!

I am of GREAT concern with your "pictured" coil boot design.

The coil boot MUST by long enough to contact the steel of the fitted spark plug.
YOUR design allows for an Air Gap that will conduct the spark AWAY from the inside of the plug!

The use of MY IGN-x (a coil family), your pictured IGN-1A AND the IGN-1CD, MUST be kept to HIGH STANDARD.

Thus please correct your boot design.

Lance



Are you saying that not covering the whole ceramic of the plug and the boot directly contacting the metal it will cause spark away from the inside of the plug?

[RICE RACING]

There is a silicone boot extension cover to address Lances concern and any customer who wants to do that, its all supplied in each system.
NOTE: many plugs used by various people means no one boot will fit all as they interchange.

Along with Molycote 111 to full line the insides of all ridges and pockets to make it perfectly sealed.

Thanks.

[chibikougan]

Haha not using Moly or Dielectric compound on an ignition...


Stalker from EFI 101?

[RICE RACING]

Haha not using Moly or Dielectric compound on an ignition...


Stalker from EFI 101?

He means well,

All the stuff is there, the 'grease' I use since 1993 its a non hardening silicone, again there if customers want to use it.

[chibikougan]

He means well,

All the stuff is there, the 'grease' I use since 1993 its a non hardening silicone, again there if customers want to use it.


Cool was wondering....

[Pantera EFI]

Chibi, YES you are correct.

We use my CO-2 pressure chamber to "fire" a Spark Plug as it would be under the "pressure" of a running engine.

WHAT I HAVE FOUND is that the Spark Energy will LEAK out at that area causing miss-fire.

Lance

[Prodigy]

Lance, if the boot is not able to reach down to the metal of the plug, what is the best way of trying to contain the energy?

Slightly excessive amount of die electric grease, what let irons are there...


J.

[Pantera EFI]

FIRST, my data is MOST OFTEN observed, tested, retested, by the use of my CO-2 Spark Plug pressure chamber firing bench.
This allows for ACTUAL running engine test conditions without damage to the engine.

I have NEVER tested a "dual" boot design. (two boots connected at a parting line)

MY reason is the development of the FireCore 50/250 8.5mm spark plug wire showed HV leaks with others 10mm wire.
What was found: When the insulator diameter was increased from 8mm-10mm, a greater chance of a "pin-hole" size hole was present.
ALL who produce the silicon jacket over the wire conductor have the same problem, its just that the 10mm size allows for the pin hole to be more common.
This "pin-hole" allows the HV to leak out into the air with lower energy passed to the end of the wire.
The WITNESSED observation is seen as a Corona on the outside of the wire.
I should add that my tests where with the use of the IGN-1A coil@400psi. of CO-2.

Reason would state ANY tear, pinhole, cut, "dual-boot" design would cause a HV leak.

Lance

[chibikougan]

Unless you use a simple amount you would always use of Dielectric or Moly compound. Like you would on any ignition system. Especially I High Performance Ignition..

Use common SNES and you will have no problems.


You forced conditions with an airgap if the airgap is sealed it will not happen correct?

[Pantera EFI]

Correct ? : UNKNOWN

One method, my method, would be to do the test using my CO-2 Chamber.

Would you be able to set the parameters for YOUR test ?

Lance

[chibikougan]

Its as simple as driving and inspecting the ignition system for Carbon Tracking.

It is very simple to see and to fix the issue. I think I read it in a book from the 50s.

Part of proper regular maintenance.

[infernosg]

So... any news on the ETA of these? Anxiously waiting as I HATE my current lead configuration!

[FC Zach]

Yep, same here. . . :toetap05:

[RICE RACING]

So... any news on the ETA of these? Anxiously waiting as I HATE my current lead configuration!

Yes I know........
Had a slight delay, have been doing heat treatment of springs (job in itself) as I do all of them myself.
Hoping this time next week I'll smash up a completed assembled IGN-1A unit and for those who have asked me for COP Adaptors and complete units will then take an order and get there items made.

To make them after the first runs (which I am testing) is pretty straight forward process, hopefully more speedy.

I appreciate your patience. I am as keen as all of you!

[Pantera EFI]

The "frankenstein" effect (Carbon Tracking) WILL cause miss-fire which is VERY DANGEROUS to ANY engine.
Constant engine miss-fire causes the "trace" of a conduction path to be easily observed after MANY firings creating the ground circuit destroying the plug boot.
Many times this was the cause of a "blown-up" engine.

WE see the result of miss-fire in the GUI of my ECU-882C after counting the acceleration rate of my 60-2 crankshaft TW.
This is at the first miss-fire hopefully before engine damage can occur.
We have used this method for OVER THIRTY years, as due all OEM's from 2006 on as the patent expired, its the law.

MY hope for those users here that may fit my coils is NOT to explode their engine.

Thus my offer stands, I will gladly test a boot/wire/etc. in my CO-2 chamber without damage to a running engine.

Lance

[Fendamonky]

The "frankenstein" effect (Carbon Tracking) WILL cause miss-fire which is VERY DANGEROUS to ANY engine.
Constant engine miss-fire causes the "trace" of a conduction path to be easily observed after MANY firings creating the ground circuit destroying the plug boot.
Many times this was the cause of a "blown-up" engine.

WE see the result of miss-fire in the GUI of my ECU-882C after counting the acceleration rate of my 60-2 crankshaft TW.
This is at the first miss-fire hopefully before engine damage can occur.
We have used this method for OVER THIRTY years, as due all OEM's from 2006 on as the patent expired, its the law.

MY hope for those users here that may fit my coils is NOT to explode their engine.

Thus my offer stands, I will gladly test a boot/wire/etc. in my CO-2 chamber without damage to a running engine.

Lance

What coils are those Lance?

Perhaps start a different thread where you can go deep in the weeds on this subject (as you're obviously passionate about it) without necessarily derailing the current thread in the process.

Cheers,

Levi

[Pantera EFI]

Hi Levi, THIS thread is about Peters coil brackets AND boots for the IGN-1 coil family.
The brackets he machines look to be fine !

HOW am I "in the weeds" ?

Lance

[Fendamonky]

Hi Levi, THIS thread is about Peters coil brackets AND boots for the IGN-1 coil family.
The brackets he machines look to be fine !

HOW am I "in the weeds" ?

Lance

Your initial concern, that Peters COP adapter didn't form fit to isolate the steel tip from the insulator, leaving an air gap has been addressed by Peter. Since then just about every post of yours so far has harped on YOUR CO2 chamber, YOUR extensive testing, and/or YOUR coils.

Your posts have left the original subject of this thread and are meandering over to your own subject. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but I think your subjects warrant their own thread instead of piggybacking on Peters thread.

That is how you're wandering "in the weeds" :biggthumpup::cheers2:

[RICE RACING]

ok I have all parts finished, will take some pics later on today my time, busy with seals that have to be sent to customers so this will have to come second.

*they look great* and work nice :302:
later today/early tomorrow will get in touch with customers who have emailed me about various systems and parts to organize their items, thanks.

Peter

[RICE RACING]

your mumma

[FC Zach]

Stuff looks great! now. . .
https://www.sierrawestscalemodels.com/vanforum/uploads/FileUpload/13/6953.jpg

[V8eter]

That's looks fucking gangster peter

[RICE RACING]

That's looks fucking gangster peter

I'm taking a picture tomorrow fitted to engine of the M&W CDI system, that one is a work of art, best coil and ignition system matching my mounting system........... already sold out of those !

It takes a bit to impress me but that system is really nice.

For the IGN-1A I will not be offering anymore a 'full kit' as the coils are inferior to the CDI systems I prefer, no point me wasting my time or customers time on them really as it is a pretty shitty ignition option anyway IMHO.

The GB here is over, but people can still email me if they like or want something, so far as what I recommend the M&W top shelf system is there ready to go :party: It even has my own made boots that go all the way to the plug steel :o21:

Peter

[chibikougan]

Edit: Right E-mail inbound at some point when I get dimensions...

[RICE RACING]

Here is the superior M&W ignition system with perfect mounting system :hurray:

Enjoy.
Fits spot on with no load bearing on plugs, all bespoke RICE RACING!

http://i.imgur.com/Kgg3L3Q.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/t1fNJn7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Uo26Z0c.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7dhJyPg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DW0kl7A.jpg

[Pantera EFI]

Hi Peter, your brackets and boot design/length look to be perfect when mounting my IGN-1CD coil to a rotary engine as pictured.

I am sure you are aware that my provided instructions state the coil's secondary ground, the spark return path, should be connected to that coil's specific rotor.

Good Work Peter

Lance

[Fendamonky]

Nobody will be using YOUR products here Lance. Start your own thread if you want to try to push another company's product that you've modified.

[RICE RACING]

Will have pics soon of the latest generation of this system, all 4 M&W CDI coils mounted to latest mounts + 2 x PRODRAG2 250mJ custom boxes that are switchable Hi/Lo power for true road going set up that will also take almost anything you can throw at it fueling and pressure wise without misfire or the engine telling you how it wants to be set up....

Stay tuned, this is a BAD ASS system brought to you by RICE RACING, the Innovator :hurray:

$2800US this full system, but it is the BEST by a LONG WAY :bowdown:

[knonfs]

Here is the superior M&W ignition system with perfect mounting system :hurray:

Enjoy.
Fits spot on with no load bearing on plugs, all bespoke RICE RACING!

http://i.imgur.com/Kgg3L3Q.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/t1fNJn7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Uo26Z0c.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/7dhJyPg.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DW0kl7A.jpg

:o16::o16::o16:

Damn that's some sexy sheeeeeeeeeet right there!

[RICE RACING]

I have had a few PM's and E-Mails and wanted to post here, if people still want a component part to allow COP for the inferior coils I will make these to suit demand, the prototypes have worked well, they are intricate little fuckers, thus price.

If people want those then I will take orders/payment and organize to get these made ASPA since I will not be stocking them, it will be a make as ordered item.

Peter

[chibikougan]

:drool5: