Car dies...

[Herblenny]

I got in the car this afternoon and car wouldn't start as the battery was death..

After installing a new battery the car started fine. Drove about 4-5 miles and all the sudden, car dies. I was able to start it back up, drove down the street and as soon as I engage the clutch, put in neutral, the idle goes super low and engine dies.

I was able to drive the car home but I had to keep the idle high in order to keep the car alive. I don't understand way changing the battery would do this...

Anyone have any ideas?

[-xlr8planet-]

your alternator might be dead or faulty

the new battery might die soon.

[blwnrtr93]

Did you ever get the charging system checked after changing everything at the Gap?

[Herblenny]

I'll take the alternator and see whats up..

But when I did start the car and idle at 800RPM, it was making 13.8V.

[blwnrtr93]

if it's pushing 13.8 it should be ok. i know advance or autozone can check the whole of the charging system on the car, but since it is dying when the rpms drop driving the car there isn't much of an option.

[Herblenny]

Ok.. Now I got the car started and drove for about 10 mins. Car NOW seems fine!! i just don't understand what the problem is... Everytime, its something new...

[WE3RX7]

Maybe it was just a loose connection on the battery/alt from playing with it at the gap...

I would still have the alt checked to be sure.

I'm still leaning towards fuel filter, lol...

[My5ABaby]

The only time my car (FC) ever just went dead on me, I had a bad connection at the battery. Basically the terminal connector would randomly fail on me (corrosion I guess) and my car would die. I'm not sure why though since I've seen cars run just on the alternator with no battery, but :dunno: . Just something that may help.

[Herblenny]

Yesterday, I took off from work early and did some testing and checking..

All the connection seems to be ok and I also checked the VFAD. Everything seems to be OK.

So, I started the car and the car started and died as the idle came back down. So, I started up again and kept the RPM up and it stayed alive.. I kept the idle up for about 30 secs and it idled back down..

I then shut the car off and did the ecu reset. I started the car and it started fine and idled perfect!!

So, this is where I stand today..

This morning... I started the car, it started, and died as RPM went from 3k to 1k.. and dead.

I started the car again and it started fine!!! I drove it to work and everything seemed ok..

I just don't understand??

PHIL

[My5ABaby]

Those symptoms rule out the relevance to my problem.

Yay for RX-8s? :dunno:

[blwnrtr93]

Is the computer throwing any codes after it does this?

[fikren]

I wonder if the problems you were having with the alt putting out 24v might have had an impact on the ECU.

[My5ABaby]

I wonder if the problems you were having with the alt putting out 24v might have had an impact on the ECU.
I would assume 24v could be very damaging. I know on FC's, anything over 15volts can damage things, and 24v would likely blow the ECU, much less injure it.

[djmtsu]

YOU CANNOT HAVE THE ALTERNATOR TESTED AT ADVANCE OR ANY AUTO PARTS STORE.

Their equipment cannot simulate the circuit within the RX-8's ECU to get an accurate test.

[Herblenny]

By the way, the 24V thing at DGRR wasn't true...

Later that night, I couldn't believe that the alternator was producing that kind of volt so I decided to check another FE... Sure enough, the other FE was producing the same voltage. I then guessed that the volt meter was off.. Next day volt meter was tested and sure enough, it was bad.

My volt meter suggest that the car is producing enough voltage.. My guess now is that 8 is sucking up power and when voltage drops its putting the car in the limp mode (my previous problem). My current problem, I'm guessing maybe the ECU had to learn?? I'm just keep an eye out and see... I guess if I make it hope ok, then I'm good.

Oh, does anyone have any info about changing out Fuel Filters?? I'm just going to go ahead and do that just in case..

[fikren]

By the way, the 24V thing at DGRR wasn't true...

Later that night, I couldn't believe that the alternator was producing that kind of volt so I decided to check another FE... Sure enough, the other FE was producing the same voltage. I then guessed that the volt meter was off.. Next day volt meter was tested and sure enough, it was bad.

My volt meter suggest that the car is producing enough voltage.. My guess now is that 8 is sucking up power and when voltage drops its putting the car in the limp mode (my previous problem). My current problem, I'm guessing maybe the ECU had to learn?? I'm just keep an eye out and see... I guess if I make it hope ok, then I'm good.

Oh, does anyone have any info about changing out Fuel Filters?? I'm just going to go ahead and do that just in case..
ah ok, I never heard the update that it wasn't pumping out 24v.

Fuel filter is not replaceable without replacing the entire pump as it is integrated into it. If I am not mistaken, the access hole is under the rear seats so you have to lift them up. From what I have read it is essentially just pulling up on the seats and there should be four screws then.

Mazda claims the fuel filter in their pump is good for 100k miles but who knows.

I think mazsport makes a true bolt in replacement pump which may also flow more but I have not really looked into it so I do not know if their filter is replaceable or if its like OEM where the whole pump has to be changed with it.

[Herblenny]

^^ I think you are right.. I know 8s are returnless system and I've heard somewhere that most returnless have filter built in to the pump.

I guess I'll do some research and see what I find out about the filter thing..

[fikren]

no searching nessecary, the filter is in the pump. New filter=new pump, probley run in the 200-300 range from dealership.

Mazsports pump turns the system in to a return system but it is way expensive ~700.

I haven't seen many, if any, problems related to the fuel filter in the 8's. They are supposed to handle up to the recomended change out at 100k miles.

It would seem like everything your experiancing would fall into an electrical/ecu problem to me. Its hard to say on these cars, maybe when you reset the ecu it put it back into learning mode and will adjust itself over the next couple of days. I don't know if something like changing the coils/wires and then messing around with the alt could have made such a difference that your system was no longer running in the way the ecu had "learned" it was running.

[Herblenny]

I hope that's the case... But I couldn't find any hard evidence of RX-8 ECU needing to "Learn".

My 8 has 100+K miles.. But most of that is highway miles... which If I convert to normal driving around 50-70K (going by Engine RPM). I also don't see any consistent fuel filter/pump symptoms that you would normally see... I just can't think of anything else..

Next time I have issues, I'm taking it to the dealer and see what they find out... Maybe their computer will find the problem..

[Herblenny]

Update...

Well, After 8+ hour shift at work, I got in the car and the car started RIGHT UP!!! 1-2 turn over and cranked!!! My drive home, I saw zero problems and the engine sounded great!!! I even got on it to 9k RPM and the car pulled harder than before!!

One other thing I didn't post last night was I was missing one nut off of the alternator bracket and I put that on and tighten all the nuts and bolts.... Maybe the alternator wasn't grounded right?? Who knows.. but the car is now up and running great!!! and Idles smooth at 800 or so RPM.

[fikren]

Update...

Well, After 8+ hour shift at work, I got in the car and the car started RIGHT UP!!! 1-2 turn over and cranked!!! My drive home, I saw zero problems and the engine sounded great!!! I even got on it to 9k RPM and the car pulled harder than before!!

One other thing I didn't post last night was I was missing one nut off of the alternator bracket and I put that on and tighten all the nuts and bolts.... Maybe the alternator wasn't grounded right?? Who knows.. but the car is now up and running great!!! and Idles smooth at 800 or so RPM.
thats great, maybe the mysterious gremlins have moved on.

[WE3RX7]

Well thats good - interesting note on the voltage though.. I'll have to tell Jon if he doesnt read this post first..

The alt being loose or not grounded would def cause some issues for you! I'm glad we cleared the water about the filter as well.. thanks fikren..

[Herblenny]

I'm still needing few parts from Jon... And I would like to still get that ECU, the ECU bracket, and battery tie down..

I'm hoping all is well... crossing my fingers...

Here is the Fuel System Diagram for RX-8

Also, Does anyone know what the fuel line is made out of?? I notice one of them has a kink in it... I tried to bend it back but might need to replace it.

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1202&stc=1&d=1208403631

[Herblenny]

Nevermind.. I just read that the fuel lines are plastic.. I think i might have to replace one and could have been the cause of some of my issues...

[Herblenny]

Not that anyone cares.. But my car started fine this morning and drove like a champ on my way to work...

Also, I'm running aftermarket wheels and I'm not getting the TPS light coming on.. I guess its a good thing??

[fikren]

Not that anyone cares.. But my car started fine this morning and drove like a champ on my way to work...

Also, I'm running aftermarket wheels and I'm not getting the TPS light coming on.. I guess its a good thing??
what are you talking about, we all care in fact I was asking the wife just a little bit ago, "I wonder if phil made it to work ok this morning."

Glad things are going well so far. Maybe that loose alt bracket was the culprit afterall.

[Herblenny]

OK...

Well, I just found out its NOT the fuel line thats kinked..

Can someone tell me what this line is?? Its the line next to the fuel line...

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1215&stc=1&d=1208454814

[Herblenny]

Found it!!

Its the line to Charcoal canister in the back.. Phew.. Nothing serious.. But might had an effect on idle.. I'm going to take the rubber cover off and see if I can just fix it by taking out the kink and such..

[blwnrtr93]

Happy to hear you've got it sorted out, Phil.

[Herblenny]

I think I fixed the car!!!

Car feels great and so far starts right up and no issues with driving and idling.. Yeah!! Crossing my fingers to see how long it lasts:)

I do however need battery tie down, ECU mounting/cooling plate, and I think that's it!

[sinequanon]

You may want to check & clean mass air sensor... the bf's 300z was dying when the rpms dropped, popped out the sensor, gave it a good spray with cleaners, and cleaned the throttle body and its running great now...Woman that sold it told him it needed new fuel pump and she didn't have the money for it. Problem turned out to be alot cheaper. Just a thought, I'm not really knowledgeable about the rotary engine yet though, so not sure how much would apply.

[Herblenny]

Thanks! I might do that next time around..

I just picked up the ECU cooling plate and drove about 100+ miles.. So far the car pulls and everything seems ok.. I guess only time will tell.