Rx8 tuning help

[Jr_gosetto]

Hey guys I'm pretty new to the rotary scene. I know the engines pretty well at this point besides a few thing so if there is a link someone could post to learn more would great. im not to sure about how to tune the pcme. I have looked for piggyback's but I havnt been able to find any. So my question is can the pcme be open source tuned. I'm planing on doing a street port from mazdatrix bc i have ti rebuil the engine anyways and wanted to tune the engine aswell to try and get a few extra ponys. Any help would be much appreciated.

[Dannobre]

Cobb AP is one way...

MazdaEdit is a new programmer that some are having luck with. Seems a bit more difficult to use....but good for tinkerers that are good with computers :)

[RETed]

So my question is can the pcme be open source tuned.

It's called MegaSquirt.


-Ted

[Jr_gosetto]

Cobb AP is one way... :)

I checked to see if they made one for it currently and they don't I even double checked there web site just now.

[Jr_gosetto]

It's called MegaSquirt.

Well the megasquirt is a DIY and dosnt really explain wat it's classified as ie piggyback or standalone. Could you shed some light on wat it truly is. Is it a standalone that you build a new pcme. Or do u rip open the factory one and install the circuit into it. Or is it building a programmer. A little more detail would be nice

[JL1RX7]

Two ways - Cobb Accessport if you are series one eight. Its a piggy back like the PFC for 3rd gens.

Second gut the stock CANbus PCM and run your own.

Some people have used GOODbox and a few other hacks into the PCM. But nothing is really out in the world that will get you much. Better off sticking to what you have stock or spend 1k to 2k for Cobb and tuning for ten or so HP. Really the major thing with Cobb is you can change or T-stat fan operation and make the oil injectors put more oil in.

Comes down to this. What and how much do you REALLY want to spend. Ask that question first then look to see what is out there.

[reddozen]

Cob is not a piggy back. It's a PCM re-flash tool that reprograms the factory ECU. You don't leave it connected like say and SAFC-II (an actual piggy back). Even the Power FC is a stand alone computer (This is an FC / FD computer though)...

[Jr_gosetto]

Cob is not a piggy back. It's a PCM re-flash tool that reprograms the factory ECU. You don't leave it connected like say and SAFC-II (an actual piggy back). Even the Power FC is a stand alone computer (This is an FC / FD computer though)...

Well actually you leave the AP connected like a piggy back, atleast if yo want to use the launch control and other features (Idk if the rx8s get launch control or not but the subarus do). But you right its a flash you get cobb to load the program then jut plug it in. And like I stated previously if you are to go on the cobb website now u will not see an AP for the rx8 the only things there comparable with are the mazadaspeed3 and mazadaspeed6.

[reddozen]

You have to get the RX8 Cob though Mazda Maniac. He has an exclusive contract with them for the RX8. And no, other than logging data, you don't get any perks for leaving the Cob plugged into your 8. Regardless, it's not necessary to leave it plugged in for the car to maintain it's tune.

If you get one used, you have to make sure that it's unmarried from the current owners car. Otherwise, Cob charges you like $300 to unlock it.

[Jr_gosetto]

You have to get the RX8 Cob though Mazda Maniac. He has an exclusive contract with them for the RX8. And no, other than logging data, you don't get any perks for leaving the Cob plugged into your 8. Regardless, it's not necessary to leave it plugged in for the car to maintain it's tune.

If you get one used, you have to make sure that it's unmarried from the current owners car. Otherwise, Cob charges you like $300 to unlock it.

Cheers Mate ill check that out now. And so ur saying there is no launch control or flat foot shifting available with the AP for the 8. I am apart of the NASIOC forum and the guys on there say that if u want to use those features it has to be plugged in. Also is the mazdatrix port template good/ who makes the best template. And I can't seem to find a exhaust port template, dose anyone even make one for the 8 or are the stock ports big enought to breath out the extra exhaust gas (don't think there'd be much extra gases just want to do it right)

[Jr_gosetto]

Well I have just looked at racing beat website and saw they have a port template aswell and a PCM flash for the renisis with there street port. The PCM reflash is 300 and anothe 100 for the template. Where if I go with the Mazdatrix template for 100 I'd be looking at the 600 for the AP. so does anyone have a link of these 2 being compared possibly or a little write up. It seems the racing beat S-port and reflash route would be cheaper then just the AP. I don't mind spending extra $ on a better performing setup, but if its not a noticble differance y spend the extra $.

[reddozen]

The advantage of the AP setup is that Mazda Maniac will tune your car based on your setup. Also, you get to keep the tool, and you can use it to disable engine codes, tune the car again if you make further mods, etc. The racing beat flash s a generic flash that doesn't specifically take into account your car's setup. It's better than factory, but not as good as a complete tuning option.

As for porting templates... There's really no room to port the exhaust ports without hitting the water jackets. Also, don't expect more than 5~10HP tops out of intake porting on the renesis. It's honestly not worth the cost. Intake, exhaust, headers... nothing really adds any power to the 8 without spending a LOT of money. Mazda actually did a good job at squeezing all the reliable power out of the motor from the factory.

My car is bridge ported, AP tuned, intake, full exhaust, and I doubt I'm even pulling 220HP to the wheels (probably more like 210 tops on a good day). Compare this to guys with stock port motors that are serious racers making 200~230HP, and one could make the argument that porting does absolutely nothing for a renesis. You're looking at probably $100/1 HP on this motor.

Just giving you the info so you can make your own decision. I'm not trying to run you off, or scare you away from it if you really want it. Just want you to know that it's not like an old 13b engine where porting and good intake / exhaust can net you 20~30HP pretty easily.

[Jr_gosetto]

Cheers for the info mate. I knew that there wasn't much to be gained from a S-port but if the engine was going to be apart thought I might aswell just port it. And would a deburring/cleaning the runners so there is a smooth transition, or is this another case of just the old 13b was like that. And that is a good thing to think about in regards to the AP bc I was thinking of a turbo kit down the road, small amount of boost tho no more the 8 psi I might even run only 4 psi bc wen I turbo it I will be running the 10:1 cr rotars. Ill be honest tho idk how rotarys do with high comp and turbo, but I know piston engine DON'T like to be boosted wen compression is high. Is there a tread on hear by chance explaining high compression turbo setups and wat the possible repercussions are, posting a link would be great but all u have to say is yes or no and ill search it if there is. I know on piston engines a few things can happen with high comp turno setups, but the biggest one is snapping a conecting rod. So would to much boost on a 10:1cr rotary blow seals/crack a housing or anything like that, or would it just take it.

Plus the main reason I want to do a high comp turbo setup is I was talking to a guy I work with who owned an 8, he said the only reason they have a 10grand redline is bc over that an it cannot get enough air to continue to make power. He said if u put on a TD04 with mild boost you could raise the rpm. is this statement true, so I'm asking the experts(u guys)now lol.

[Jr_gosetto]

[QUOTE=reddozen;My car is bridge ported, AP tuned, intake, full exhaust[/QUOTE]

Well from I have heard that and NA 13b doesn't really benifit greatly from a Bridgeport, only turbod applications see any real gain. But then again that's only wat I have heard, I haven't done it my self so I can't be sure. But it dose make an awesome sound:icon_tup:

[RETed]

Well the megasquirt is a DIY and dosnt really explain wat it's classified as ie piggyback or standalone. Could you shed some light on wat it truly is. Is it a standalone that you build a new pcme. Or do u rip open the factory one and install the circuit into it. Or is it building a programmer. A little more detail would be nice

I thought the definition of "open source" is do-you-own-homework...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source


-Ted

[RETed]

Well from I have heard that and NA 13b doesn't really benifit greatly from a Bridgeport, only turbod applications see any real gain. But then again that's only wat I have heard, I haven't done it my self so I can't be sure. But it dose make an awesome sound:icon_tup:

You really need to do more research on the subject matter.
It sounds like you're being mislead...


-Ted

[Jr_gosetto]

You really need to do more research on the subject matter.
It sounds like you're being mislead...


-Ted



Any chance u can tell me the name of the thread comparing S and Bridgeport for NA 13b I would like to learn the "proper" information behind the porting.

[Jr_gosetto]

And I'm just elaborating on my previous post about the NA with a Bridgeport. I'm not saying these is no aim to be had from a Bridgeported NA 13b. But from what I have heard the gain in power isn't worth the trade off in reliability/maintainence. I have heard guys running Bridgeported rx7's have to change the spark plugs about every 3 weeks, oil changes much more frequently, and it makes the milage much worse. Plus the same guys say it dosnt have neer as much low end. Also like I said I a previous post (give it a quick look over its #13) anyone know about high compression turbo setup.

[GySgtFrank]

Turboing a Renesis engine, especially with 10:1 compression is a really bad idea. The Renesis is not designed for and not strong enough for it. Detonation is as much, if not more, of a killer for rotarys as it is for piston engines. The only way it can be done safely is with massive amounts of water/meth injection and a high end ECU with an incredibly good tune. If you're putting that kind of money in it anyway, going with an REW and the ECU would make more sense. That is not easy either as there are compatibility issues with the 8s electronics.

I'm not a fan of doing much port work on anything, but the NA will benefit from it more than the turbo will. The turbo can overcome combustion filling problems with boost and changing the port timing has the same effects, as what you stated you don't like, on both of them. Check out some of RiceRacing's posts on this as well as others. You may get some gains, but there are tradeoffs. Whether or not to do porting really depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

[Rotary Evolution]

the issue with the renesis and turboing it is the side port exhaust. even n/a the engine has a difficult time cooling off the side seals before the next combustion event takes place. now add in a turbo to the mix and the EGTs are a chunk higher, beyond the comfort level for the side seals, warping them and eventually ejecting them as the early engines would an apex seal(except with the renesis, literally almost everything gets damaged including the irons).

now modify an early peripheral exhaust rotor housing to work with the renesis and think about what happens.

the increased compression ratio is now what is going to limit your possible boost level, but at least the side seals might just survive.

i'm currently working on a 5 port turbo renesis exhaust manifold... if you plan on doing more than stomping the gas pedal more than once every 15 minutes it's going to take hybridization or a complete engine swap.

[Jr_gosetto]

Ok so turbo is a big no no thanks for the info guys. Sound s like I might go back to my old idea of swapping in an engine from a 93 rx7 and making it 4 rotor. And before anyone thinks im crazy look at this link http://rotaryengine.com/services/34kits.htm they do the work I get the engine I just have to make it work in the 8

[C. Ludwig]

There are parallel install options from Adaptronic and Haltech offering standalone control of fuel and spark as well as advanced options such as launch control, boost control, etc. PM me if interested.

You will not extend the rev range by adding a turbo. Doesn't work like that.

[RETed]

Ok so turbo is a big no no thanks for the info guys. Sound s like I might go back to my old idea of swapping in an engine from a 93 rx7 and making it 4 rotor. And before anyone thinks im crazy look at this link http://rotaryengine.com/services/34kits.htm they do the work I get the engine I just have to make it work in the 8

No.
I think you are crazy.


-Ted

[Jr_gosetto]

No.
I think you are crazy.


-Ted

Y thank u mr ignorance

[RedR1]

I might go back to my old idea of swapping in an engine from a 93 rx7 and making it 4 rotor.

realistically, what is your budget for making this 4 rotor? there's a reason there are more 3 rotors running around than 4 rotors. Not picking on you, I just want to shine the light of reasoning as it's significantly more than most people think. However, if you know how much it's going to be, carry on and keep us posted. We all love a 4 rotor project :D

[RETed]

Y thank u mr ignorance

Go on...keep it up.
I dare you.


-Ted

[Rotary Evolution]

a turbo and renesis can work together without all the other BS but there are steps you have to take and it also depends on what you plan on doing with the car. if you plan on pushing 10+psi and run pump gas while tracking the car, no. alcohol, except not everyone has E85 available to them locally. water injection, but i wouldn't rely on that to keep EGTs down indefinitely to save the side seals. engine swap, probably the most common route. hybridization, probably the least common route.

[Jr_gosetto]

Go on...keep it up.
I dare you.


-Ted

Really I was jut askin honest questions I wasn't trying to make it sound like I know everything. I was trying to get good info about this and u were being very undesisive, little info given just bashing me pretty much so ya I will defend myself. And wat r u really going to do beat me up lmfao I'd like to see that

[chibikougan]

Y thank u mr ignorance


Technically your the ignorant one.. You are the one with no knowledge of anything rotary. If you did you wouldn't have bought that slow whatever it is in the first place.

When someone says 4 rotor they are talking out if their ass you have nowhere near the budget and knowledge to get it done. You also have a shit attitude that is going to make the few people who might be able to help you achieve anything with your slow 8 besides blowing it up. Sit back and watch you fail.

Now go blow your shart up like the rest so other people can buy your roller for cheap and do something but fanboi in it.

Oh and I bench 320 blah and bleh breh! So breh come at me breh .

GDHSF!



Fuck Off I'm out!!

[Rotary Evolution]

jfc people, relax...

[Jr_gosetto]

Technically your the ignorant one.. You are the one with no knowledge of anything rotary. If you did you wouldn't have bought that slow whatever it is in the first place.

When someone says 4 rotor they are talking out if their ass you have nowhere near the budget and knowledge to get it done. You also have a shit attitude that is going to make the few people who might be able to help you achieve anything with your slow 8 besides blowing it up. Sit back and watch you fail.

Now go blow your shart up like the rest so other people can buy your roller for cheap and do something but fanboi in it.

Oh and I bench 320 blah and bleh breh! So breh come at me breh .

GDHSF!



Fuck Off I'm out!!

1st off how do u know my budget I didn't state one, 2nd i dont have a budget 3rd are u saying u can bench 320 (if so u must mean 320 feathers) u have no clue who I am I could be a 110 pound nerd or a 400 pound body builder so don't judge. And just so u know I bought the car with a blown engine for a grand. And look at mad mikes 4 rotor rx7 u can see its a 4 rotor, u can watch him drift it so its not just a pipe dream it possible I'm not retarted. 4th how do u know my mechanical aptitude again u have no clue who I am, and I don't think u need to say idk anything and y r u getting into this argument anyways are u teds muscle. And also I am asking the questions so I am get the info. I'm not doing the work and asking redundant questions. And I am new to the rotary yes, but I know a few things so don't state I know nothing (and the reason for getting the 8 is I can't fit in a 7 bc I'm 6 foot 8). I want to learn more about them and to do so questions have to be asked and answers are needed, not sarcasm and attack. So thank you to the people who posted helpful info.

[Jr_gosetto]

realistically, what is your budget for making this 4 rotor? there's a reason there are more 3 rotors running around than 4 rotors. Not picking on you, I just want to shine the light of reasoning as it's significantly more than most people think. However, if you know how much it's going to be, carry on and keep us posted. We all love a 4 rotor project :D

Well i have no real budget I would do what ever it takes to make it. even if it takes 20 grand to do so. I am a tradesman (won't say what kind bc I don't want people I piss off to know wat I do, bc no matter how hard anyone try's we are always wrong/stupid in someone else's eyes) and work with a lot of machinists who can help me with turning the E-shaft and getting the lobs right.
I have access to all the vertical/horizontal mills, lathes, power tools, and presses I could dream of. I would go one but wats the point lol. There are a few threads on differant forums of people doin 4 rotor builds, so if I need help I can always go to those. The only thing I'm having a hard time figuring out is how to keep the EGTs down. Depending on my curiosity I might try ernie brink's spark plug hole idea and anyone who loves rotary has more then likly heard his ideas. But just like everything else in the world sometimes things just don't work out so I might have to go to a Cosmo 20b. But I'm going to aim to do a custom 26b first.

[chibikougan]

I know you have no budget you are a GDHSF. Also you bought an 8 and most likely still owe money on it.

If you had the budget for a 4 rotor you would not be asking on here about it that is for certain. You would take the cheaper route and buy a supercar of any kind because that's the kind of budget your looking at.


Take off hozer!

[chibikougan]

Fuck I just noticed you referenced mad mikes car that takes a team of 12 just to start. You got the scratch to hire a billion dollar company backed car damn!

Yay you bought a broken 8 even better.


Neva gonna get it.....

[Jr_gosetto]

I know you have no budget you are a GDHSF. Also you bought an 8 and most likely still owe money on it.

If you had the budget for a 4 rotor you would not be asking on here about it that is for certain. You would take the cheaper route and buy a supercar of any kind because that's the kind of budget your looking at.


Take off hozer!

Read the entire post I said I got the car for a grand with the engine gone. If this is all your goin to do is belittle me please DONOT reply. I don't need people idk and don't have a clue who I am judging my intellect and budget. U may know alot or u may no nothing idk I don't know u. since ur not helping please post anywhere but in this thread and give your .02 else where please [edit] just saw your post and Ill put my foot in my mouth for now and big time to bc I asked u not to post but if u have info like the fact of mad mike needs 12 guys to start te car ill be happy to say I'm wrong[edit]

[Jr_gosetto]

also do u know where I can find that info if I havnt pissed u off already and your gone

[chibikougan]

I have no help for you. :dupe:

[chibikougan]

Use the search function its right under Private Message box. But your going to custom build a 4 rotor?



Right?

[Jr_gosetto]

Use the search function its right under Private Message box. But your going to custom build a 4 rotor?



Right?

I am seriously considering it but in all honesty the more I step back and look at the idea the engine is the easiest part for me. I have the engine designed (mentally). but electronics I'm not so good with, so for me to b able to get a PCME to fire all 4 rotors would be my kryptonite. And in my eyes your info on the 12man start is helpful. Hard to believe but until I find differant who am I to argue, considering it seem like I have argued enough with the "wrong" people

[Jr_gosetto]

And did have hack up my post and quote it me sounding like an idiot that is just immature

[chibikougan]

Your immature...Man I loved that band

[Jr_gosetto]

Wat do u meen by band and that remark dosnt help the immaturity case for u

[chibikougan]

Not so funny eh

That is hilarious I don't even understand it but good stuff!

[chibikougan]

Wat band
















:icon_no2:

[chibikougan]

Wat do u meen by band and that remark dosnt help the immaturity case for u

Damn pick one and stick with it!

[chibikougan]

:facepalm:

[Jr_gosetto]

:icon_no2:

I have an idea wen u said band its the quote of me that will be there on every post best since I want 100% sure if that's what I was like I said I'm not electronically inclined so most Internet slang I'm not sure of I only assume half the time

[Jr_gosetto]

Ok the reason I changed it from the quote is y have that just It posted in one thread seems stupid if I can learn to do wat u did maybe ill do that but no point of leaving it on that thread. Not sure y I did the 3rd and to elaborate on the quote is its a paraphillia called mechanophilia and I think ull understand now

[chibikougan]

Who's on first?

[Jr_gosetto]

Your going to have to elaborate a little

[Jr_gosetto]

Bc who is (the extended form of who's) on first makes no sense. Who is up first or who was on first make sence. not so much who's on first, unless talking about baseball

[Pete_89T2]

Bc who is (the extended form of who's) on first makes no sense. Who is up first or who was on first make sence. not so much who's on first, unless talking about baseball

You must be too young to be familiar with and appreciate the classic Abbot & Costello "Who's on first?" comedy skit, which was about baseball BTW. Google it, watch video, laugh your ass off.

And this thread has gotten so far off topic that it should be closed

[RETed]

Really I was jut askin honest questions I wasn't trying to make it sound like I know everything. I was trying to get good info about this and u were being very undesisive, little info given just bashing me pretty much so ya I will defend myself. And wat r u really going to do beat me up lmfao I'd like to see that

THIS, people, is what I call a "troll".
Your thread went from "open source" tuning of the RX-8 to a multi-engine rotor swap???
Sorry dude, but I've been doing this longer than you've been alive...
When it types like a troll...and it smells like a troll...

1) People have been give you suggestions, but you brush everything off.
If the answers are not good enough for you, go find it yourself.
Kids nowadays...they think everything needs to be silver spoon fed to them.
GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND.

2) Your attitude can be construed as thinly veiled threats.
Can the attitude, cause that causes others to get defensive too - not just you; you're not the only one that can use that defense.

I think I just stuck a sticky in here posting GUIDELINES on how members should act.
I believe you have never read it.
READ IT NOW.

I'm closing this thread cause it's all over the place (see above), and it has gone down the toilet.
(Oh shit, a mod!)
I normally delete crap like this, but I'm keeping this around for the tons of newbs that seem to be coming around at this time of the year to remind them what NOT TO DO HERE.

If you're not willing to change your attitude, you are not welcome here.
I suggest you READ MORE and POST LESS.
USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION.

Mr. Jr_gosetto, this is a formal warning to knock it off.
Keep this up and further disciplinary action is promised.


-Ted

[ZGN]

Troll or not everyone please be courteous as it was a legit question other members might be interested in. If anyone has more info on a Megasquirt RX-8 or any other engine management system we would love to have a writeup of it in our tech section.

Also please report trolls to me. I will be glad to deal with them.

Thanks!