Coolant & Oil temperatures

[rotar bones]

I am getting ready to pull off my front bumper

[RETed]

I wanted to be preemptive in my cooling and have it come on 10 degrees before stock settings.

Why?

Your engine is designed to work most efficiently at a certain temperature RANGE.
If you're trying to run it too cold, you're just wasting fuel and possibly causing premature engine wear - hell, why would you care cause you advocate shutting the engine off after revving it up to 3k+ RPMS!

Unless you're having overheating issues - are you? - there's no reason to be changing anything, including the radiator.
A larger radiator does nothing if your previous radiator worked fine.
If your previous radiator worked fine, then upgrading to a larger radiator just causes the thermostat to possibly work harder and possibly fail prematurely.


-Ted

[Sephitrask]

Why are you wanting to install a secondary radiator? Are you having cooling issues now? If so the issues causing that needs to be remedied before any modifications are done. On to the answers to your questions:

Oil temps do not turn on the fans, coolant temps do, and they turn on at around 210 F. Rx8performance.com sells a relay kit that turns them on at 185 F, I have that on my car. For the oil temp sender I found it best to get a modified banjo bolt that you can screw the sender into and us it to replace the banjo bolt either on the front cover or drivers side oil cooler (put it on the side pre-cooler not after) You can get an oil filter sandwich adapter but I found that the oil filter location made the thing a bitch to deal with.. I ended up throwing mine across the driveway in frustration and ordered the before mentioned banjo bolts. Again, Scott at Rx8performance.com made those for me.

All in all the cooling system on the rx8 is very good if functioning properly, unless you live in extreme heat or track the car it should be fine. Do you have a undertray that is intact? it is an essential part of the cooling system

[rotar bones]

Why?

Your engine is designed to work most efficiently at a certain temperature RANGE.
If you're trying to run it too cold, you're just wasting fuel and possibly causing premature engine wear - hell, why would you care cause you advocate shutting the engine off after revving it up to 3k+ RPMS!

Unless you're having overheating issues - are you? - there's no reason to be changing anything, including the radiator.
A larger radiator does nothing if your previous radiator worked fine.
If your previous radiator worked fine, then upgrading to a larger radiator just causes the thermostat to possibly work harder and possibly fail prematurely.


Changing things is half the fun ted. I have changed things before , I have owned it 6 years now. I am also going to change other things in the future. If your a buff on keeping stock cars stock , than congrats, I am not a stock car buff at all. I bought it to play with and I shall. I have been revving up my motor to 3 or 4000 rpm at shut down for the last 6 years and 80,000 miles with no ill effects or wet starts etc, etc, etc. You were skirting a statement that revving your engine ad dumping the power is a bad thing at shut off. Do yu think it is a bad thing for the motor?. Is it?. I have been doing it for 6 years and 80,000 miles and my motor is as strong as the day I bought it new , so if that isa bad thing to do than why is my motor so strong and never , never experienced a bad start or any thing of the like. I'm not convinced we are the same page. you sound angry. Why be so angry man , life is too short. Crack a smile and let the sun shine through ok?.


-Ted

I don't know quite how to respond as it sounds like your chewing my ass and not giving me advice:chillpill:?. You sound almost angry?.

[rotar bones]

Why are you wanting to install a secondary radiator? Are you having cooling issues now? If so the issues causing that needs to be remedied before any modifications are done. On to the answers to your questions:

Oil temps do not turn on the fans, coolant temps do, and they turn on at around 210 F. Rx8performance.com sells a relay kit that turns them on at 185 F, I have that on my car. For the oil temp sender I found it best to get a modified banjo bolt that you can screw the sender into and us it to replace the banjo bolt either on the front cover or drivers side oil cooler (put it on the side pre-cooler not after) You can get an oil filter sandwich adapter but I found that the oil filter location made the thing a bitch to deal with.. I ended up throwing mine across the driveway in frustration and ordered the before mentioned banjo bolts. Again, Scott at Rx8performance.com made those for me.

All in all the cooling system on the rx8 is very good if functioning properly, unless you live in extreme heat or track the car it should be fine. Do you have a undertray that is intact? it is an essential part of the cooling system

You

[Sephitrask]

You are making assumptions about a secondary radiator. I am replacing the stock one with one that maybe an inch larger in size and am moving it to the center of the grill behind it to achieve more efficient cooling. Thanks for the info on the banjo bolt , that makes a lot of sense. I run my 8 some what harder than some folks. I run the mountains every week end as duty allows and that is a lot of stress on the motor. My desire to set the temperature switch to 10 degrees lower is because I stress my motor racing around at 11,000 feet. Yes my under tray is intact and I am going to change it to this( see attachment) type for cooling the transmission oil during my runs up and down the mountain. On a typical 95 degree day the car gets really hot and I don't want to wait for the tow truck yea!. Thanks for the input man.:patriot:

I misread the initial post, my bad. So the car is an auto then? I havent done measurements on the location your talking about moving it to, but it seems like it would be to narrow for a non v-style mount. If you go through with it please take pictures, I would love to see it.

[RETed]

Let me just preface this...

I've been dealing with newbs like you for years now.
I've been dealing with newbs like you online for over 20 years now.
I can smell them from a mile away.
You think you know what you are doing.
In actually you have a lot to learn.
You know just enough to be dangerous.
You also have a chip on your shoulder that if you get criticized, you get all defensive and get all butt hurt.
Get over it.
You asked a public question on a public forum - be prepared for responses that you do not agree with.


Changing things is half the fun ted. I have changed things before ,
You look like the type that likes to waste money?
If you're buying and swapping stuff just for the sake of doing so, then none of this applies to you and just ignore anything I say, period.
When I build my cars, I change and mod things that NEED to be modded - nothing more; nothing less.
My philosophy is: function over form.


I have owned it 6 years now.
I've been doing this since 1996, so that makes it 17 years?
Since we're comparing resumes...


I am also going to change other things in the future. If your a buff on keeping stock cars stock , than congrats, I am not a stock car buff at all. I bought it to play with and I shall.
See above.


I have been revving up my motor to 3 or 4000 rpm at shut down for the last 6 years and 80,000 miles with no ill effects or wet starts etc, etc, etc. You were skirting a statement that revving your engine ad dumping the power is a bad thing at shut off. Do yu think it is a bad thing for the motor?. Is it?. I have been doing it for 6 years and 80,000 miles and my motor is as strong as the day I bought it new , so if that isa bad thing to do than why is my motor so strong and never , never experienced a bad start or any thing of the like. I'm not convinced we are the same page. you sound angry. Why be so angry man , life is too short. Crack a smile and let the sun shine through ok?.
I don't argue with stupid.
You made your point.
I came to the conclusion that you're not going to listen to anything I had to add, thus, I ended my involvement in that thread.


I don't know quite how to respond as it sounds like your chewing my ass and not giving me advice:chillpill:?. You sound almost angry?.
Dude, sorry to tell you, but you're nothing special...
Ask anyone who has known me for a few years - my road is littered with ignorant people like you...thousands...
Angry?
You're giving yourself too much credit.
I'm sitting here smilin' and laughin' at how much you don't know...
Try again.


The one I bought isn't much bigger than the stock one.
This implies you're wasting money...

I am moving it to the center grill because I want to gain more efficient cooling.
This implies you're ignorant on how heat exchange dynamics work...


I plan to use the original hole drivers side to feed air over my coils.
I don't know where the stock coils are located, but if you need a dedicated air source to cool them, either the original design is stupid to begin with (ala FD), or you don't know what you're doing...

I think it is best to leave this where it is as you sound more like my dad than any thing. Thanks for the ass chewing but no thanks sir.:0.:dunno: I was just looking for discussion not discord. Some how I have written in your quote?, I opoligize far that.
I hope I am not related to you in any way, shape, or form...


-Ted

[WE3RX7]

I'm really confused. Are you installing a new coolant radiator in place of the OEM one? Or - are you installing a new oil cooler in the center inlet thus removing the driver's side oil cooler?

Is your car auto or manual?

I understand that you "race" down mountain roads and that your car gets hot, but by your own admission you just bought digital gauges to view the temperatures of both oil and coolant. This means currently you're relying on the factory gauges which is a terribly bad idea. If any of your temp gauges are reading more than "normal" or slightly less than half way in an RX8, you've probably already cooked something and no amount of additional/larger coolers is going to solve that problem.

[Sephitrask]

The coils are in a crap place, but I don't know that any amount of ducting will cool them in the stock location. Want to fix the issue? move them.

[rotar bones]

I misread the initial post, my bad. So the car is an auto then? I havent done measurements on the location your talking about moving it to, but it seems like it would be to narrow for a non v-style mount. If you go through with it please take pictures, I would love to see it.

I will take pics as it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

[rotar bones]

The coils are in a crap place, but I don't know that any amount of ducting will cool them in the stock location. Want to fix the issue? move them.

Actually you are correct.

[rotar bones]

Let me just preface this...

I've been dealing with newbs like you for years now.
I've been dealing with newbs like you online for over 20 years now.
I can smell them from a mile away.
You think you know what you are doing.
In actually you have a lot to learn.
You know just enough to be dangerous.
You also have a chip on your shoulder that if you get criticized, you get all defensive and get all butt hurt.
Get over it.
You asked a public question on a public forum - be prepared for responses that you do not agree with.



You look like the type that likes to waste money?
If you're buying and swapping stuff just for the sake of doing so, then none of this applies to you and just ignore anything I say, period.
When I build my cars, I change and mod things that NEED to be modded - nothing more; nothing less.
My philosophy is: function over form.



I've been doing this since 1996, so that makes it 17 years?
Since we're comparing resumes...



See above.



I don't argue with stupid.
You made your point.
I came to the conclusion that you're not going to listen to anything I had to add, thus, I ended my involvement in that thread.



Dude, sorry to tell you, but you're nothing special...
Ask anyone who has known me for a few years - my road is littered with ignorant people like you...thousands...
Angry?
You're giving yourself too much credit.
I'm sitting here smilin' and laughin' at how much you don't know...
Try again.



This implies you're wasting money...


This implies you're ignorant on how heat exchange dynamics work...



I don't know where the stock coils are located, but if you need a dedicated air source to cool them, either the original design is stupid to begin with (ala FD), or you don't know what you're doing...


I hope I am not related to you in any way, shape, or form...


-Ted


Wow! me too. If you don't have an 8 its probably best you do not comment on the 8. Make sense ted. Here is a nice 1st generation 7

[WE3RX7]

You don't need to move your coils. The upgraded BHR coils (LS2) have heat sinks in them and they don't sit near close enough to the exhaust to cause any REAL problems. I've run a similar setup as what BHR offers for years now on many track days with no issues other than plug wire failure (unrelated).

Now - unless you WANT to move them because you're bored and looking for something to do, by all means. Although almost anywhere else you move them to will involve lengthening your harness and plug wires which if not done properly will probably cause more harm than good.

If you're really trying to be different - why don't you tackle doing a 6spd swap into your automatic? That'll be your biggest bang for the buck (swap in the 6 port engine while you're at it)....

[rotar bones]

You don't need to move your coils. The upgraded BHR coils (LS2) have heat sinks in them and they don't sit near close enough to the exhaust to cause any REAL problems. I've run a similar setup as what BHR offers for years now on many track days with no issues other than plug wire failure (unrelated).

Now - unless you WANT to move them because you're bored and looking for something to do, by all means. Although almost anywhere else you move them to will involve lengthening your harness and plug wires which if not done properly will probably cause more harm than good.

If you're really trying to be different - why don't you tackle doing a 6spd swap into your automatic? That'll be your biggest bang for the buck (swap in the 6 port engine while you're at it)....



Not

[WE3RX7]

The 06 and newer RX8s have 6spd autos.. you could do that swap.

Worn grommets? Please elaborate.

[rotar bones]

The 06 and newer RX8s have 6spd autos.. you could do that swap.

Worn grommets? Please elaborate.

To be honest I am not sure I am qualified for that , but I know my way around cars in general to be a good assistant.

I was referring to some gromets on the front endsteering control arms, I think control arms?. I noticed it on the lift the other day. A small part of the rubber or I think plastic grommet left a space between the two componets. I am still tracking down the original sound that made me look in the first place.

[Rotary Evolution]

don't mind ted, he is an agry induvidual with a chip on his shoulder to drag everyone down to his discontent level.

i see nothing wrong with increasing the coolant volume of the system and lowering the fan temps 10-15 degrees, it may work the fans harder but it certainly won't blow out a thermostat, it is the first i've even heard of or seen such a thing mentioned. even if the t-stat does fail it will fail in the open position which will result in longer warmups which you will notice on the aftermarket gauge. result being more fuel consumption and lacking performance, but additional wear? i want to see lab results on that one.

afaik he doesn't own an 8 or know any of the failure points on them. the plastic radiator is a ticking timebomb with the stock fan temps set from the factory and with the age these cars are reaching now. one overheat and the coolant seals may just be done.

you're on the right path of thinking so don't feel like you aren't. the stock system is borderline undersize for extreme situations, which is also why i assume you are upgrading. increased temps and more pressure overworking the soft, aging plastic cooling system components isn't exactly my ideal scenario. out here in the desert where temps hit 117+ regularly we have to be prepared and the stock radiator and fan turn on temps simply don't cut it on a car which is held together by 10 year old rubber bands on the inside.

i once thought about making this forum my home but then i looked around at all the high and mighty self serving induviduals who run this place.. some info may be more true and some is just total BS to make posters feel foolish, which will never allow this forum to actually grow.

[rotar bones]

don't mind ted, he is an agry induvidual with a chip on his shoulder to drag everyone down to his discontent level.

i see nothing wrong with increasing the coolant volume of the system and lowering the fan temps 10-15 degrees, it may work the fans harder but it certainly won't blow out a thermostat, it is the first i've even heard of or seen such a thing mentioned. even if the t-stat does fail it will fail in the open position which will result in longer warmups which you will notice on the aftermarket gauge. result being more fuel consumption and lacking performance, but additional wear? i want to see lab results on that one.

afaik he doesn't own an 8 or know any of the failure points on them. the plastic radiator is a ticking timebomb with the stock fan temps set from the factory and with the age these cars are reaching now. one overheat and the coolant seals may just be done.

you're on the right path of thinking so don't feel like you aren't. the stock system is borderline undersize for extreme situations, which is also why i assume you are upgrading. increased temps and more pressure overworking the soft, aging plastic cooling system components isn't exactly my ideal scenario. out here in the desert where temps hit 117+ regularly we have to be prepared and the stock radiator and fan turn on temps simply don't cut it on a car which is held together by 10 year old rubber bands on the inside.

i once thought about making this forum my home but then i looked around at all the high and mighty self serving induviduals who run this place.. some info may be more true and some is just total BS to make posters feel foolish, which will never allow this forum to actually grow.


No worries mate: I agree with you that the cooling system is border line especially when stressed. I was running the mountains at 10,000 feet and today was the first time I really laid really hard on the 8 and I made the dash needle move up some . I pulled over, opened the hood and let it idle till te cooling fans went off. No problem going home but it does accent the point tat my thinking is correct in wanting more cooling as I run mine pretty hard. It isn't my daily driver, it is my toy thing.

I wasn't put off with the pugilistic attitude. It sort of reminded me of that other site were every one seems to be pugilistic, but no worries because here I have been told I can defend my self. It sounds like he is beating a dead horse:beatdeadhorse5:. I didn't spit any cooling fluid so I just proved the cooling system is working but that it is in my opinion undersized or as you put it border line. You are probably more right there.

[RETed]

don't mind ted, he is an agry induvidual with a chip on his shoulder to drag everyone down to his discontent level.

i see nothing wrong with increasing the coolant volume of the system and lowering the fan temps 10-15 degrees, it may work the fans harder but it certainly won't blow out a thermostat, it is the first i've even heard of or seen such a thing mentioned. even if the t-stat does fail it will fail in the open position which will result in longer warmups which you will notice on the aftermarket gauge. result being more fuel consumption and lacking performance, but additional wear? i want to see lab results on that one.

afaik he doesn't own an 8 or know any of the failure points on them. the plastic radiator is a ticking timebomb with the stock fan temps set from the factory and with the age these cars are reaching now. one overheat and the coolant seals may just be done.

you're on the right path of thinking so don't feel like you aren't. the stock system is borderline undersize for extreme situations, which is also why i assume you are upgrading. increased temps and more pressure overworking the soft, aging plastic cooling system components isn't exactly my ideal scenario. out here in the desert where temps hit 117+ regularly we have to be prepared and the stock radiator and fan turn on temps simply don't cut it on a car which is held together by 10 year old rubber bands on the inside.

i once thought about making this forum my home but then i looked around at all the high and mighty self serving induviduals who run this place.. some info may be more true and some is just total BS to make posters feel foolish, which will never allow this forum to actually grow.

Nice, coming from someone who has no idea how to tune a stable idle...

For the record, my 1987 Turbo II with it's stock radiator has gone through Sac summers up to 115F and Vegas summers over 120F...
No problems.
This was back in 1999 - 2002, which makes the radiator 13 - 16 years old...original radiator...plastic end tanks and all.
Original stock viscous fan pulled...
Electric fan installed - 16" Spal single...
Turn on temps was set at 230F indicated on an SPI water temp gauge...
Turn off temps was set at 200F indicated on an SPI water temp gauge...
The car was making ~260hp at the wheels...obviously turbo'd motor.

That pretty much breaks all of your bullshit claims you stated above.
Don't you feel stupid now...


-Ted

[WE3RX7]

For the record, my 1987 Turbo II with it's stock radiator has gone through Sac summers up to 115F and Vegas summers over 120F...
No problems.
This was back in 1999 - 2002, which makes the radiator 13 - 16 years old...original radiator...plastic end tanks and all.
Original stock viscous fan pulled...
Electric fan installed - 16" Spal single...
Turn on temps was set at 230F indicated on an SPI water temp gauge...
Turn off temps was set at 200F indicated on an SPI water temp gauge...
The car was making ~260hp at the wheels...obviously turbo'd motor.

-Ted

Agreed. My turbo RX8 with stock radiator (had a PWR but never installed it) ran around 200F regularly, no issues at 8psi and 260whp with coolant temps. Oh - and it had an intercooler in front of the radiator heating up the air going into the radiator itself. So yea, must be a very inefficient system from the factory :)


For the record, I do run a Koyo radiator in my current RX8 for reasons other than cooling temperatures. These reasons include minor weight savings and most importantly, it can take minor impacts during an "off".. I run stock OEM fans with modified switch values to turn on a little earlier (182F) to help in paddock cooldowns.

[Sephitrask]

To be honest I am not sure I am qualified for that , but I know my way around cars in general to be a good assistant.

I was referring to some gromets on the front endsteering control arms, I think control arms?. I noticed it on the lift the other day. A small part of the rubber or I think plastic grommet left a space between the two componets. I am still tracking down the original sound that made me look in the first place.

got a picture? Sounds like you may be describing broken end links. Look anything like this?http://www.findtuners.com/rx8/broken_end_link.jpg

[rotar bones]

got a picture? Sounds like you may be describing broken end links. Look anything like this?http://www.findtuners.com/rx8/broken_end_link.jpg



Its not the part that is pulled a part but the larger swing arm. The plastic or rubber on each end of the swing arm connecting bolt. The outer edges are chipped away around its outer edge. . It isn't critical but more a winter job.

[rotar bones]

:toetap05:Definition of an expert: " A drip under pressure".

[Sephitrask]

Its not the part that is pulled a part but the larger swing arm. The plastic or rubber on each end of the swing arm connecting bolt. The outer edges are chipped away around its outer edge. . It isn't critical but more a winter job.

ok, so your lower control arm bushings are bad and need to be replaced, got it

[Sephitrask]

Guys can you take it to PM or the lounge please? It would suck to start getting thread movement here only to have it bogged down by off topic arguments. I appreciate both of your contributions to the site, can't you play nice?

[RETed]

Guys can you take it to PM or the lounge please? It would suck to start getting thread movement here only to have it bogged down by off topic arguments. I appreciate both of your contributions to the site, can't you play nice?

It doesn't hurt to ask...


-Ted

[RETed]

Need I remind you that this is a TECH subsection.
Knock off the extracurricular talk, as there was already a prior request to clean it up.
If we can't keep it on topic, I'm locking the thread up.
Recent off-topic replies have been deleted.


-Ted

[rotar bones]

bought new control arm bushings.

[rotar bones]

After running my 8 up and down the mountains all summer my winter project is to relocate my oil cooler and purchase the coolant relay kit mentioned by sephitrask. I don't track my 8 but I must say running up the mountains at 10,00 feet on a 90 degree F day is as far as heat soak goes the same as tracking. I made my coolant gauge move a little on a few runs up and down the mountains and I feel the change is some thing I need to do. I will take pics and post when done.

[rotar bones]

I have found that spraying out my oil cooler and radiator does help the system work as well as designed. The cooling system is working fairly well but for what I do/ driving the mountain roads , the stock radiator on my rx8 isn't quite enough to cool with out always bumping the gauge. My winter project is to move the oil coolers location and install my digital gauges. As well as some other thing which aren't this thread.