Starting & turning off the 8 moter.

[rotar bones]

:uhh:

[RETed]

I have owned my 8 for 5 years now and wen I bought mine I asked the Mazda mechanic about any special things I needed to be aware of with the motor
I would suggest you find another mechanic.

and he told me that when in start it turn on my ignition and give it a few seconds for the fuel pump to catch up
Not necessary.


and when I turn it off rev it to around 3500 to 4000 rpm and dump the ignition turn it off.
This is a holdover from folks who used to drive cars in the 60's.
Engines with carbs with leaky bowls would start better with this method, but it also increased wear&tear.
The extra gas in the engine was a band-aid fix for leaking carb bowls that would normally be hard to start.
The extra gas would also wash away IMPORTANT oil film that would normally aid in compression (starting) and decrease wear&tear from cold starts.
No modern fuel injection engine should be doing this, and if there are problems on cold-starts, it is highly recommend to FIX the problem rather than apply this dangerous band-aid.


-Ted

[rotar bones]

I would suggest you find another mechanic.


Not necessary.



This is a holdover from folks who used to drive cars in the 60's.
Engines with carbs with leaky bowls would start better with this method, but it also increased wear&tear.
The extra gas in the engine was a band-aid fix for leaking carb bowls that would normally be hard to start.
The extra gas would also wash away IMPORTANT oil film that would normally aid in compression (starting) and decrease wear&tear from cold starts.
No modern fuel injection engine should be doing this, and if there are problems on cold-starts, it is highly recommend to FIX the problem rather than apply this dangerous band-aid.


-Ted

I

[rotar bones]

I would suggest you find another mechanic.


Not necessary.



This is a holdover from folks who used to drive cars in the 60's.
Engines with carbs with leaky bowls would start better with this method, but it also increased wear&tear.
The extra gas in the engine was a band-aid fix for leaking carb bowls that would normally be hard to start.
The extra gas would also wash away IMPORTANT oil film that would normally aid in compression (starting) and decrease wear&tear from cold starts.
No modern fuel injection engine should be doing this, and if there are problems on cold-starts, it is highly recommend to FIX the problem rather than apply this dangerous band-aid.


-Ted

How

[WE3RX7]

The revving up and killing ignition is an old carb trick as Ted mentioned. It doesn't apply to current EFI rotaries.

Mechanics are like doctors - if you have a serious question, it's best to get a second opinion, or maybe a third. You're just wasting gas revving your engine and shutting it off. Why after 80K and 6 years of doing this would you ask this question? It seems a bit odd - did your engine start showing signs of wear/compression loss and you're trying to pin it back to a specific shutdown procedure?

[rotar bones]

The revving up and killing ignition is an old carb trick as Ted mentioned. It doesn't apply to current EFI rotaries.

Mechanics are like doctors - if you have a serious question, it's best to get a second opinion, or maybe a third. You're just wasting gas revving your engine and shutting it off. Why after 80K and 6 years of doing this would you ask this question? It seems a bit odd - did your engine start showing signs of wear/compression loss and you're trying to pin it back to a specific shutdown procedure?


I asked the question because I wanted to start conversation that's it.

[Whizbang]

now ive heard of folks revving then turn off to clear the engine if the car has low compression and flooding issues. But generally, if the car is healthy. turning the key like normal should be plenty fine.

[WE3RX7]

I asked the question because I wanted to start conversation that's it. If you really read my post you would know my motor is doing fine. I am aware of old tricks with cars, I started driving 1962. I am getting the impression that you really didn't read my post. My post wasn't met to be a question by me as if I don't know what happends or that I had motor issues I was trying to pin back on a procedure. I ask again, how do you start and stop your 8 if you have one?. I ask because I am not the only one who revvs up their motor ad dumps the ignition.
I have herd no offer of a reaction from you on how you start and stop your motor in your 8?. I do mine that way because it does scavenge the combustion chamber to some extent and it may have a connection to flooding, and I know about cold start and shut offs, as I said earlier I have done this for 80,000 miles no ill effect.So how do you start and turn off your 8,do you own a rx8?. can you respond to the original question please:auto:

You are awfully defensive about conversations in forums. I understand you were asking a question, but there are usually deeper meanings to the questions people ask in a forum setting, especially ones as benign as "how do you start/stop your rx8". So, to answer your question. I start my RX8 as most would. I unlock the door, climb in, depress the clutch (I leave my car in gear as well if that matters for you), turn the ignition over and what do you know - it starts. Now, to stop my RX8... I find a place to park it, pull in, hit the brakes to come to a complete stop, pull up on the emergency brake and turn off the ignition. Again, I usually leave it in gear as well.

To answer your other question. Yes, I own an RX8. In fact, this isn't my first RX8. Nor is it my first rotary.

Now - since you want to have a conversation about this. Let's talk about your 80,000 miles of revving the engine up to 3,500-4,000 (which is it? 500RPM is a big difference) and killing the ignition and it causing "no ill effect." How do you know there has been no ill effect on your engine? Did you do a compression test when it was brand new, and done another one now to compare to? Do you have a second RX8, identical in every way that you drive the exact same way and DON'T rev the engine up before killing ignition? Have you taken the engines out of both cars and done a thorough analysis and compared one to other to see if there was "no ill effect" on the rev-before-kill engine? Have you ever taken ANY rotary apart? Ever put one back together? Is this your first RX8? How many cars do you have? Blah blah...

I hope you are picking up on the cynical and at the same time rhetorical questions. That is my point.

Everybody has an opinon, get used to it.

[rotar bones]

You are awfully defensive about conversations in forums. I understand you were asking a question, but there are usually deeper meanings to the questions people ask in a forum setting, especially ones as benign as "how do you start/stop your rx8". So, to answer your question. I start my RX8 as most would. I unlock the door, climb in, depress the clutch (I leave my car in gear as well if that matters for you), turn the ignition over and what do you know - it starts. Now, to stop my RX8... I find a place to park it, pull in, hit the brakes to come to a complete stop, pull up on the emergency brake and turn off the ignition. Again, I usually leave it in gear as well.

To answer your other question. Yes, I own an RX8. In fact, this isn't my first RX8. Nor is it my first rotary.

Now - since you want to have a conversation about this. Let's talk about your 80,000 miles of revving the engine up to 3,500-4,000 (which is it? 500RPM is a big difference) and killing the ignition and it causing "no ill effect." How do you know there has been no ill effect on your engine? Did you do a compression test when it was brand new, and done another one now to compare to? Do you have a second RX8, identical in every way that you drive the exact same way and DON'T rev the engine up before killing ignition? Have you taken the engines out of both cars and done a thorough analysis and compared one to other to see if there was "no ill effect" on the rev-before-kill engine? Have you ever taken ANY rotary apart? Ever put one back together? Is this your first RX8? How many cars do you have? Blah blah...

I hope you are picking up on the cynical and at the same time rhetorical questions. That is my point.

Everybody has an opinon, get used to it.

You seem

[rotar bones]

now ive heard of folks revving then turn off to clear the engine if the car has low compression and flooding issues. But generally, if the car is healthy. turning the key like normal should be plenty fine.



I feel bad at this point for ever starting this thread

[Whizbang]

no worries.

the wear issue comes from the metering oil pump being electronic. So if the car is off, and the motor is spinning, its not injecting oil. Now this is just for a moment, but those moments start to add up. If your premixing and older car it still has this issue since its not injecting fuel (and thus the oil mix). The carbs would suck fuel down on the vacuum and remain unburnt but washes the oil film.

Thinking about it, the only car you could probably get away with it would be an S4 car or a GSLSE that was EFI and mechanical MOP.

Either way, development of flooding issues is usually a sign of a problem. Moreover, the cars do have the anti-flood fuel cut from depressing the throttle fully while cranking.

[rotar bones]

no worries.

the wear issue comes from the metering oil pump being electronic. So if the car is off, and the motor is spinning, its not injecting oil. Now this is just for a moment, but those moments start to add up. If your premixing and older car it still has this issue since its not injecting fuel (and thus the oil mix). The carbs would suck fuel down on the vacuum and remain unburnt but washes the oil film.

Thinking about it, the only car you could probably get away with it would be an S4 car or a GSLSE that was EFI and mechanical MOP.

Either way, development of flooding issues is usually a sign of a problem. Moreover, the cars do have the anti-flood fuel cut from depressing the throttle fully while cranking.


Thank you for the ground level information and you restore my faith brother. I was in fear this site was just like that other one so many of us have jumped ship from thank you.

You are correct about the oil metering pump. I am pre mixing and have been for some time and I fully expect to buy a cat because of it possibly, but so be it. I premix because I believe mazda sacrificed lubricty for emmissions, that's just my call. I have never ever experienced any flooding wet starts or any thing of the like. Starts every time hot or cold any weather. It probably starts all the time because I am under the hood daily and it isn't my daily driver its my toy thing,Any way thank you for the response brother:auto:

[Sephitrask]

Most of the items here have been dealt with, going to touch on the two that haven't. The fuel pump primes before you even start the car, so waiting after doesn't make sense. The other one is an endless debate, but unless you are running a SOHN adapter synthetic oil is a big no-no for rotaries unless you like carbon buildup, which the Renesis is prone to anyway. Even Mazda says to stay away from it, and that says a lot

[rotar bones]

Most of the items here have been dealt with, going to touch on the two that haven't. The fuel pump primes before you even start the car, so waiting after doesn't make sense. The other one is an endless debate, but unless you are running a SOHN adapter synthetic oil is a big no-no for rotaries unless you like carbon buildup, which the Renesis is prone to anyway. Even Mazda says to stay away from it, and that says a lot



You are correct about the fuel pump but I figure I can do some thing like tis because it isn't hurting any thing to do so( sort of like putting your toung in your cheek before starting for the first time your build you did .). Iam not running a sohn adapter, and you are correct again that it is an endless debate ad you forgot to add, and not a winning argument on either side. The jury is out so to speak on the syn vs Dino debate. Carbon build up is a very important issue. I try to address that by running my about up to 8,000 rpm several times during my play time.

As far as mazda goes, what Mazda says and a buck will get you a cup of coffee, so you see I am not a believer of Stealer ships. I have been using syn oil for quite a while with no bad effect in fact my motor runs better than it did before I started using syn oil. I am going to pull my plugs this weekend and have a gander at the condition after so many thousand miles. I have a friend at Mazda Racing tha helps me out now and then no worries mate.

[Sephitrask]

I would like to see compression numbers on your engine.

[rotar bones]

I would like to see compression numbers on your engine.

You know I would also. I will in the next few weeks get the compression tested from a friend at Mazda racing and post his official paper here. I am running the mountains again tomorrow. I will try to do this as soon as possible. I believe the compression should be around 60 or so, correct me if I am wrong on that one?. They have the right tester there.

[rotar bones]

Fat fingers oooops! didn't mean to post this, tried to delete but couldn't?.:smash:

[WE3RX7]

I try to address that by running my about up to 8,000 rpm several times during my play time.

:banghead: 2004 Automatic with a 7,500 redline.

[rotar bones]

:banghead: 2004 Automatic with a 7,500 redline.

I an take a picture of the dash for you:dunno:lol lol. Look man don't you ever venture beyond the red line. The red line starts in little lines ......then .....lol lol. Look man not every body follows the rules like you might, that being said I run mine right up to the 8000rpm mark and I know I am close to the rev limiter and who knows the accuracy of any factory gauge?.

I like hearing the bell ring. I might break some thing but unlikely , that may be why they installed a rev limiter, ya think????. If your worried about breaking yours then that's your thing. If I break mine by .../.oh my god ....going over the line on the tachometer , um there is no penality for rining the bell at what ever the factory rev limiter is set at and I would bet if you tested 10 8's on the rev limiter settings ou would get 110 different variances on the test. You make a big deal out of nothing sir. You think what you like sir but I don't really give a hoot. I may push it tomorrow when I run up and down the mountains to see what the rev limiter feels like?:dunno:

[Fendamonky]

You seem like a pugilistic type and I only wanted a honest conversation about it, but you seem like an angry guy and honestly guy I would seek some help on that issue ,seriously guy. You sound like you are angry and bragging and not conversing with me. I will just say good luck with your 8 and all your other cars.:chillpill: I am sorry you get so up set and every one is eentitled to their opinion and you have certainly stated yours , good luck sir:dunno:.

You, sir, strike me as being ignorant of mechanics, rotaries, spelling, and grammar. That, or you're just a troll.

The person you're calling angry is probably one of the most even keel individuals I've run across, both on the forums and in real life.

If you think he's angry than GOD FORBID you ever get corrected by Brian :lol::lol::lol:

[rotar bones]

You, sir, strike me as being ignorant of mechanics, rotaries, spelling, and grammar. That, or you're just a troll.

The person you're calling angry is probably one of the most even keel individuals I've run across, both on the forums and in real life.

If you think he's angry than GOD FORBID you ever get corrected by Brian :lol::lol::lol:


Every one is in titled to their opinion and you have made yours known sir. have you left any more cutting statements out?. You might notice sir I don't attack you for your opinion of me , even though you don't know squat about me either do you?.
There is no reason to call me names, we all have our big boy pants on here:grouphug:. Just chill and get over your self and talk about the thread instead of calling people names ok?. Your friend is a big boy, he probably is ok defending him self if he feels insulted, ya think.

[Fendamonky]

Is English your primary language?

[Notamomcar]

Ok I am new here and easily confused but please help me understand something. I only got my car a month ago. When I was pulling off the lot, the dealer stopped me and told me to make sure I revved the motor to 4 before cutting off. I thought he was full of it and just googled it to see if I found anything. What I found said yes do it or it will flood and only dealer can fix it. I just want to keep my car in as good of shape as possible.... So do I do this or just shut it off like any other car? Sorry!!

[GySgtFrank]

Despite the ongoing battle over this, here's my best advice.

Unless you have a leaky injector, it's not really necessary. The computer is set up by Mazda to provide any shut down and start up fuel cut/addition from the factory. This was something that might be applicable to a carbureted car, or like I said one that has a leaky injector. If you're having flooding issues there is something going on mechanically that should be attended to. But to each his own. I've never had a problem with my transplanted S4 naturally aspirated engine with normal shut down and start up. I trust the engineers at Mazda more than questionable advice from internet sources. If it really bothers you check with Mazda USA for their advice, dealerships may or may not give you good advice.

[Notamomcar]

Thanks!

[RedR1]

Notamomcar: Plus if it hard floods, you can easily fix it. You don't have to tow the car to the dealer. This is assuming you have a 2004/older. Just make sure you have a battery jumper bc sometimes the process will cause the battery may get drained.

pull the fuel pump fuse, #22 if i recall. crank the car for about 5-7 seconds at a time until it doesn't really smell as bad of fuel as it did from the first try. after maybe 10 or so tries, put the fuel pump relay back in and start the car. It should fire right up. sometimes it may take longer.

This is the process we used to unflood my friend's car when it flooded. One of the RX8 specialists in here can clarify or correct me if I got the fuel pump fuse number wrong.

[reddozen]

Honestly, having owned the car for 7 years now, yes, with the factory starter (Pre 2007) and factory ignition coils, I would honestly recommend you do this. The ignition system on the 8 is a joke.

What I would recommend, and it will cost you about $600~650, is to get an LS2 ignition coil upgrade, and make sure that you have the upgraded 2kw starter. With those 2 upgrades, you'll never have to worry about the ignition system again, and you can just crank it like a normal car and go.



Ignition Coils:
Black Halo: $500
http://black-halo-racing.myshopify.com/products/ignition-upgrade

Race Roots: $450
http://raceroots.com/index.php/products/mazda/rx8/engine-and-accessories/ls2-rx8-ignition-upgrade.html



Starter: (Check yours first before buying another one...)
I recommend only getting this from NAPA. They're about the only store that carries them anymore, and they're about half the price on a reman unit. Make sure to give them your old starter to get your core charge back.

NAPA: $130~$150 (check your local NAPA each store is different)

Manuel:
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Starter-Remfd-Standard/_/R-RSE2446958_0236307248

Auto:
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Starter-Remfd-Standard/_/R-RSE2446959_0236307249



Flooding:
As for them saying that the dealer has to deflood it... this is not the case. They just want $80~$100 + towing.

Solution 1:
Hold the gas peddle to the floor and crank the car for 10 seconds, wait a couple seconds, and repeat this operation like 5~6 times. Holding the peddle signals a fuel cut when cranking the car.

Solution 2:
If solution 1 doesn't work, or makes you nervous, pop the hood, open the fuse box cover on the right. pull the yellow 30 amp fuse for the fuel pump. There should be a fuse puller, and fuse diagram inside the fuse box cover. Then just crank the car for 10 seconds with a couple seconds between each crank for 5~6 times. Replace the fuse, start your car, and be on your way.

I've been off an on my way in less than 5 minutes when I've flooded out the car.

Depending on how you drive the car etc. I would recommend a set of spark plugs every year or two. The additional down side to flooding the car is burning out spark plugs. So especially with the factory ignition system, I recommend checking them to see how fouled they are every year or so at least. With my car they last about a year to year and a half. Plus will run you about $90~$100 a set, and O' Reilly is the best local place to get them. They usually have them in stock somewhere close.

[Notamomcar]

Ok my car is an 04 rx8. This is what I was told when I bought it.... When starting, turn key and wait three or four "dings" or bells then start, rev to 4 while shutting off, add Lukas gas treatment to every fill up of only premium gas, and last but not least get up to 7000 rpm atleast once a day to keep carbon from building up. I am doing all this but no idea if I need to lol I have no idea if everything is factory or if anything is upgraded. I did see on the inside of the driver door there is a sticker that says the motor was replaced in 08. Like I said, never even heard of a rotary until a month ago!

[rotar bones]

Ok my car is an 04 rx8. This is what I was told when I bought it.... When starting, turn key and wait three or four "dings" or bells then start, rev to 4 while shutting off, add Lukas gas treatment to every fill up of only premium gas, and last but not least get up to 7000 rpm atleast once a day to keep carbon from building up. I am doing all this but no idea if I need to lol I have no idea if everything is factory or if anything is upgraded. I did see on the inside of the driver door there is a sticker that says the motor was replaced in 08. Like I said, never even heard of a rotary until a month ago!

I have been doing what you describe on my 2004 8 for over 81,000 miles with no ill effect and I might add I have never had a flooding of my engine and I also pre-mix.

[reddozen]

Ok my car is an 04 rx8. This is what I was told when I bought it.... When starting, turn key and wait three or four "dings" or bells then start, rev to 4 while shutting off, add Lukas gas treatment to every fill up of only premium gas, and last but not least get up to 7000 rpm atleast once a day to keep carbon from building up. I am doing all this but no idea if I need to lol I have no idea if everything is factory or if anything is upgraded. I did see on the inside of the driver door there is a sticker that says the motor was replaced in 08. Like I said, never even heard of a rotary until a month ago!

Premix is a good thing. That will lubricate better, and help minimize carbon build up.

Also good that the motor has already been replaced. 04~06 are bad about compression loss.

If you come out to a meet sometime, it'll be easy to tell you if you have factory coils, or the 1.4kw starter starter.

[waky racer]

I have a completely original 04 RX-8. Original coils, etc. Due to my own stupidity, I flooded it twice in the early days. I cleared it by removing the spark plugs and cranking the engine until clear. I then replaced the plugs, added a second battery with jumper cables to another car and floored the accelerator. Started up fairly quickly, but that end of my neighborhood disappeared in a cloud of white smoke for a few seconds.

About a week after the second flood, I received the spark plug upgrade notice from Mazda. The hotter (leading plugs I think) combined with an Optima red top battery (1000 cranking amps or so) solved the starting problem. One piece of advice is to NEVER shut the engine off unless it is completely warmed up. That's what caused my problems.

I too rev the engine to 8000 RPM (usually in 1st or 2nd) sometime before I park it. I change oil and filter every 3000 miles and don't care what anyone says, it isn't that expensive, and I have 40,000 miles on the original engine with normal compression.

One other thing, I don't use 0W- or 5W- oil in anything. Just a premium grade of non-synthetic 10W-40 in the summer and 10W-30 in the winter. The manufacturers recommend that thinner oil to increase overall gas mileage in their whole line of cars for EPA mileage ratings more than any other reason. No pre-mix or SeaFoam to prevent carbon build up. Just common sense. I have a friend that does this with his 04 and he has over 100,000 miles on this original daily driver.

[Notamomcar]

Ok just let me know when and where the next meet is and I will be there!

[rotar bones]

I would like to see compression numbers on your engine.

I looked into the compression test and the stealer ship said it costs around $300.00 ( Lake wood racing Mazda). I am looking for some one who has a tester I can use. I could buy one I suppose, but I don't know where or how much?. How often do you compression test?. I know it has to be a tester made for the rx8 motor I think>?.

[rotar bones]

I have a completely original 04 RX-8. Original coils, etc. Due to my own stupidity, I flooded it twice in the early days. I cleared it by removing the spark plugs and cranking the engine until clear. I then replaced the plugs, added a second battery with jumper cables to another car and floored the accelerator. Started up fairly quickly, but that end of my neighborhood disappeared in a cloud of white smoke for a few seconds.

About a week after the second flood, I received the spark plug upgrade notice from Mazda. The hotter (leading plugs I think) combined with an Optima red top battery (1000 cranking amps or so) solved the starting problem. One piece of advice is to NEVER shut the engine off unless it is completely warmed up. That's what caused my problems.

I too rev the engine to 8000 RPM (usually in 1st or 2nd) sometime before I park it. I change oil and filter every 3000 miles and don't care what anyone says, it isn't that expensive, and I have 40,000 miles on the original engine with normal compression.

One other thing, I don't use 0W- or 5W- oil in anything. Just a premium grade of non-synthetic 10W-40 in the summer and 10W-30 in the winter. The manufacturers recommend that thinner oil to increase overall gas mileage in their whole line of cars for EPA mileage ratings more than any other reason. No pre-mix or SeaFoam to prevent carbon build up. Just common sense. I have a friend that does this with his 04 and he has over 100,000 miles on this original daily driver.




Is your 8 an auto or mt?.

[reddozen]

A compression test at the dealer should cost about $80~$100 tops....

[rotar bones]

A compression test at the dealer should cost about $80~$100 tops....

I had better look further then.

[reddozen]

I had better look further then.

Yea, $300 would by you your own digital tester...

[rotar bones]

Yea, $300 would by you your own digital tester...



I saw a few on http://Rotorydiagonistics.com Start at $250.00 and up .