The starter worked this morning, now it doesn't.

[$100T2]

Started the 'vert this morning, started up just fine. Drove down to the gas station and filled it, then it wouldn't start.

Turn the key, hear a click. Turn the key, hear a click. Turn the key, hear a click.

I checked the connections at the battery, everything was fine. Had my mechanic push the car, popped the clutch, started up just fine. Had to go to a doctor's appointment (Yay! Ankle surgery!), turned the car off. Came back out, and again, turn the key, hear a click.

I brought it home and drove it up on the ramps so I can get the jack under it. Before I screw with the starter, anything else I should look at first?

[85rx-7gsl-se]

As crazy as this sounds, make sure that the starter wire from the ignition didn't vibrate off. I have had that happen and it won't start, looked under the car and saw the wire loose, hooked it up and started right up.

[$100T2]

Alright, here's how the wires look on the starter... That was the best I could do without busting out the floor jack.

I'm going to go through the fuse box first to make sure nothing is blown, if that doesn't solve it, then I'm getting out the jackstands and all the tools. It's cold and windy today, not looking forward to futzing with the car.

EDIT: I have a brand new FB starter, would that work on the 'vert? If so, I can just yank it off the FB and swap it on the FC.

[My5ABaby]

When my battery was clicking my voltage gauge would drop really low when I put the key to Start (also verified with a DMM). If that's happening, it's likely the battery connection. Also, my battery connection was fine in any other key position, just not the Start position, so don't assume that if you're getting voltage with the car off, you're getting it when it's trying to Start.

Hook up a multimeter to the battery terminal connectors (not the terminals themselves) and see if you're getting voltage when you try to start it. If you are, see if you're also getting voltage at the starter.


Disclaimer: I take no responsibility to for you getting hurt being a tard and running yourself over or something.

[85rx-7gsl-se]

Hmmm...On mine, the TII starter, there is two studs on the back....one hooks to the hot, the other run from the stud to the starter case as a ground. Then there is a small spade connector on which the wire from the ignition clips on to.

[$100T2]

OK, battery connections are absolutely fine. Under hood fuses are fine, in car fuses are fine. Getting out the jack to check the starter connections.

[classicauto]

Yep try jumping it first. You'd bes surprised how battery's nose dive sometimes.

If that gets you no dice, then check the connections (at the battery and the starter) are clean. If again there's no dice, try another starter. The FB one will work only if its from a GSL SE.

[My5ABaby]

OK, battery connections are absolutely fine. Under hood fuses are fine, in car fuses are fine. Getting out the jack to check the starter connections.
Are they fine when you put the key to Start? Just checking... :D

If you haven't checked, you can put the headlights on and see what happens to them when you turn the key. That might be easier than trying to run a MM to where it's viewable while starting the car.

If you have checked it, bravo. :icon_tup:

Anywho, not trying to reiterate or doubt you, but I had this problem a while back and it stumped me for a bit, especially since I had new (2 months) terminal connectors on there.

[$100T2]

Yep try jumping it first. You'd bes surprised how battery's nose dive sometimes.

If that gets you no dice, then check the connections (at the battery and the starter) are clean. If again there's no dice, try another starter. The FB one will work only if its from a GSL SE.

The battery is brand new, and again, it started once this morning perfectly, I drove it for almost an hour, and then it just won't do shit.

[classicauto]

Just making the suggestion. I've had my car do the exact same thing (actually, not only the FC but my VW at one point also) and the battery just didn't have the umph.

Probably a starter.

EDIT: Also, before you remove it, try giving it a few love taps. Sometimes when a starter's on its last legs a section of the motor will be sticky due to wear and a little wrap is good enough to free it up. At least that would solidify the starter as the issue if a tap got it spinning again.

[$100T2]

Well, this is the best I could do for you guys:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/th_RX7problem009.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/?action=view&current=RX7problem009.flv)

[$100T2]

EDIT: Also, before you remove it, try giving it a few love taps. Sometimes when a starter's on its last legs a section of the motor will be sticky due to wear and a little wrap is good enough to free it up. At least that would solidify the starter as the issue if a tap got it spinning again.

Tried that, didn't work.

[$100T2]

If you haven't checked, you can put the headlights on and see what happens to them when you turn the key. That might be easier than trying to run a MM to where it's viewable while starting the car.

The headlights don't even semi-blink when I try it. See the vid.

[$100T2]

Just tried jumping it with the Pontiac just in case, same result.

[J-Rat]

Did you verify the 12 V starting signal is coming down the wire to the solenoid? Also, you can use the screwdriver trick to jumper the Main 12v terminals to see if it spins the starter

[classicauto]

Start starter hunting :(

BTW, I want to steal your dog.

EDIT: Just noticed J-rat's terminal jumping suggestion. Forgot about that, give it a shot.

[$100T2]

Did you verify the 12 V starting signal is coming down the wire to the solenoid? Also, you can use the screwdriver trick to jumper the Main 12v terminals to see if it spins the starter

No, I haven't done either of those.

I actually have no idea how to. Let me go hunt for a writeup.

EDIT: Could it be a bad switch on the clutch? How can I check that?

[85rx-7gsl-se]

Did you verify the 12 V starting signal is coming down the wire to the solenoid? Also, you can use the screwdriver trick to jumper the Main 12v terminals to see if it spins the starter

Thats what I suggested too....I have had that wire vibrate off several times before.

[$100T2]

Here's some more pics.

Unless you guys see something seriously amiss, I'm going to go ahead and order a new starter.

[My5ABaby]

Things look a bit rusty under there. Maybe you're just not getting a good connection.

[classicauto]

*Looks* alright............I'd pull that main positive off the large post and sand up both sides of the contact before removing it though just in case.

Also, might wanna go ahead and bolt that little black resistor box back down though. Theres a few in the engine bay, ones for your oil pressure guage.

[$100T2]

I'll try taking the whole starter off and cleaning everything up, then bolt it back on.

What little black resistor box???

[classicauto]

This little baby:

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=924&stc=1&d=1207602255

It just needs to be grounded somewhere. I believe this one was under the slave cylinder originally.

[Max777]

I just replaced my old, worn out starter wit a new one, and that peice /\ fit on a metal tab on both starters. Was it loose like that the WHOLE time?

[$100T2]

I don't know if it was loose like that or not... Today was the first time I've been under the car.

[Max777]

My friends prelude did that btw. His starter clicked, but didnt move. I gave it a tap, then the ger spun, but it was still too weak to move the engine over. We overnighted a new one, dropped it in, and the car fired up right away. Dunno how broke you are, but $90 for a reman starter is a good investment, I think.

[$100T2]

Not broke at all, just having issues with all three vehicles at the moment. It's more of an issue of "which do I deal with first" than money.

[RETed]

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=924&stc=1&d=1207602255

First of all, that black box thingy is a damping capacitor for the oil pressure gauge.
It's not going to affect anything that has to do with the starter.
Just connect that to ANY ground.
For a Turbo II, it's bolted down by one of the bolts on the clutch slave cylinder.

WHAT SCARES ME THE MOST IS THE FACT THAT THE MAIN ENGINE GROUND IS NOT CONNECTED!!!
Look BEHIND the black box in that pic - see the big ring terminal?
That's the main engine ground connection that is usually secured by the long starter bolt!
This NEEDS to be securely connected, of your engine isn't properly grounded.
The starter grounds through the engine block - no engine ground; starter doesn't work well - hell, a LOT of stuff won't work well.
We're talking the main ECU grounds are on the engine, as are how the spark plugs fire through the engine block too.

Some of the pics confuse me...
In another pic, it looks like the water temp connector (yellow wire with female bullet connector) is routed all that way to the starter...
How did you manage that?


-Ted

[$100T2]

I didn't do any of it... This is how the car came to me. I will try to get the car all the way up in the air today to give you guys some really good pics, so we can figure out what goes where.

[classicauto]

Good idea.

Ted - didn't even see it. Its a tough point of view to distinguish things :)

[djmtsu]

I feel I should chime in.

The starter is dead. Buy a new one.

This should be the end of the thread.

[My5ABaby]

WHAT SCARES ME THE MOST IS THE FACT THAT THE MAIN ENGINE GROUND IS NOT CONNECTED!!!
Look BEHIND the black box in that pic - see the big ring terminal?
That's the main engine ground connection that is usually secured by the long starter bolt!
Good idea.

Ted - didn't even see it. Its a tough point of view to distinguish things :)

I still don't see it. :willy_nilly: Or are we talking the sideways copper thing that you can barely see that may or may not be a figment of my imagination? :D

[Max777]

I know what he's talking about. it is like a bracket that's connected to the wiring harness? there was a hole in the bracket, and the long starter bolt went through it... it's actually easier to get at that thing from above the car than below! I had to have a friend hold the bolt for me while I removed the nut underneath the car.

I now lol at those "I cant get my starter off, plz help" threads, because I was a victim as well, and had to figure it out on my own, haha.

[RETed]

Forgive the crappy paint...
It's the thing I outlines in purple...
That needs to be secured to the engine block.
It's normally secured on the long bolt (and nut) that secures the starter to the engine.
That's the main engine ground.


-Ted

[Phoenix7]

SO, YOU ESTABLISHED THAT HTE ALTERNATOR IS FINE AND CHARGING THE NEW BATTERY, RIGHT? Sorry, caps lock.

You said the battery terminals are fine but try using dielectric grease too. Make sure you're not losing power via a stray wire and I'm with 85rx-7-gsl-se. Make sure your power wires to the starter are not loose.

[My5ABaby]

Forgive the crappy paint...
It's the thing I outlines in purple...
That needs to be secured to the engine block.
It's normally secured on the long bolt (and nut) that secures the starter to the engine.
That's the main engine ground.


-Ted
Hmm, I could swear mine was bolted to my fender or something... Oh well, I'll defer to you on this.

[$100T2]

Yes, the alternator charges the battery... As soon as the car starts running, the voltage goes right up to 14.5-15.

Here's tonight's pics of loose wires and assorted shit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080004.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080005.jpg

[$100T2]

Moar.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080007.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080008.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080009.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080010.jpg

[$100T2]

Still moar.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080011.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080012.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080013.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080014.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080015.jpg

[$100T2]

That red then blue wire, I yanked out from underneath the car. I don't know what it goes to.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080016.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080017.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080019.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/$100T2/P4080020.jpg

[My5ABaby]

Kinda random, but where does the red power cable that's coming off the battery go to? I don't think it's related, just curious.

[$100T2]

Amplified tube in the trunk. :)

[My5ABaby]

Oh, and get a fan shroud. :D

[djmtsu]

This has to be the largest tech thread to solve the simplest of problems.

Not hating, but come on, replace the damn starter already.

And connect that GROUND CABLE!!!!

[$100T2]

Oh, and get a fan shroud. :D

Why? It never goes over 1/3 on the temp gauge. Runs fantastic when it starts. I just need the RB pre-silencer and a new starter. :)

[RETed]

Hmm, I could swear mine was bolted to my fender or something... Oh well, I'll defer to you on this.

It is, but it doesn't stop there.
It terminates at that "ring" connector I outlined in purple at the long starter bolt.

I dunno how you car is running, cause the later pics still show the main engine ground disconnected. :(
You got additional grounds on the engine???


-Ted

[My5ABaby]

It is, but it doesn't stop there.
It terminates at that "ring" connector I outlined in purple at the long starter bolt.
-Ted
Hmm, that makes more sense now. I haven't had a reason to look down there for a few years.

[$100T2]

It is, but it doesn't stop there.
It terminates at that "ring" connector I outlined in purple at the long starter bolt.

I dunno how you car is running, cause the later pics still show the main engine ground disconnected. :(
You got additional grounds on the engine???


-Ted

I know he put a bunch of additional grounds on. When it starts, it runs good. It has the 3800 hesitation, but that's it.

[$100T2]

So those two loose wires, should they go on the front of the bolt that runs through the starter? I just took the starter off and I'm going to clean all the contacts and put it back on to see if that fixes my problems. Since that bolt is loose, I can put those two wires on pretty easily.

[$100T2]

This has to be the largest tech thread to solve the simplest of problems.



Just think how helpful it will be when someone is searching. This could be the end-all, be-all of starter threads.

[$100T2]

Took the starter off, cleaned the contacts, bolted it back in, car fired right up.

That piece that was not attached was just a bracket holding a bunch of wires. The actual main engine ground was connected after all. I put the bracket on anyway.

Car is good to go. :D