Seeing the future

[Redhawkjrt]

For those anticipating the next rotary, some sobering news:





Hard to see how the rotary continues given this situation and the emissions and mpg hurdles upcoming. Hope I'm wrong.

[My5ABaby]

They need to quit making ugly cars...

[Raksj04]

^^ I agree. or offer something others are not. like a manual on Grand Touring tirm levels other then the 3. I like the AWD CX-5, but I am unable to get one with a manual trans. so I am not sure what I want now. The MX-5 needs more power. when you compare it to other cars on paper it seem really underpowered. If the offered a Mazdaspeed MX-5 with the 2.3L Turbocharged MZR motor I am sure it would bring new interest to the brand. They make great handling cars for the money but they are under powered. Besides the MS3, which is a strong seller.

[Whizbang]

bring over the two door Mazda 2 for christ's sake!

and i agree with the ugly car syndrome. The original 3 looked good, the new one looks like someone applied too many Photoshop swirl effects to it.

The miata is going suffer against the FR-S and BRZ unless it gets better. Hell i think a hard top cheaper miata option should come around. how much cheaper could they sell the miata then? i would be more apt to buy one.

[Sephitrask]

The biggest hurdle to the Miata is public image. Outside of mazda and racing circles, the Miata is considered a chick car. As anyone you know that is not knowledgeable about cars and that is what they will tell you. More power will not fix this, styling changes may, a hard top even more possible. But piblic image and reputation is a big ass hurdle....

[Whizbang]

i really think a two door Mazda 2 would sell well here. I would be more apt to buy one over the fiesta, despite the fiesta having a touch more power.

That said, you raise a good point about public image. I suppose they could use the chassis of the miata, hard top, with a cosmic resdeign of whatever sort, so long it doesn't look like a wavy distorted face.

Ideally, just something cheap and fun that sells. hense my push on the Mazda 2.

[Raksj04]

i really think a two door Mazda 2 would sell well here. I would be more apt to buy one over the fiesta, despite the fiesta having a touch more power.

That said, you raise a good point about public image. I suppose they could use the chassis of the miata, hard top, with a cosmic resdeign of whatever sort, so long it doesn't look like a wavy distorted face.

Ideally, just something cheap and fun that sells. hense my push on the Mazda 2.

wasn't the whole point of the mx-5 to be a cheap sports car? now you can get a mustang that has twice as much power for the same price. People have also said they liked the miata without powersteering. I am not a big guy on styling, I really am sure my next new car will be a mazda. I like the way the insides are done. But why does mazda offer a moonroof on the MS3?

[Pete_89T2]

wasn't the whole point of the mx-5 to be a cheap sports car? now you can get a mustang that has twice as much power for the same price. People have also said they liked the miata without powersteering. I am not a big guy on styling, I really am sure my next new car will be a mazda. I like the way the insides are done. But why does mazda offer a moonroof on the MS3?

The MX-5/miata IS a cheap sports car, when you define sports car as a 2 seat, light & agile vehicle in a coupe/roadster body. The Mustang isn't a sports car in that sense - it's heavier, and has 2+2 seating. Ditto for the Camaro and all the other pony cars & sport coupes out there. They put moonroofs on MS3's and other cars because enough buyers want them and will spend the extra $ to get them.

Back to the OP's point, I think there will be some lean years for the rotary, but I think it will come back eventually. In the near term, I would expect them to prioritize the Skyactive engines and roll them out to the rest of the lineup, which should help the bottom line. Basically market the bread & butter vehicles (2/3/5/6's) as the choice for those who want performance but don't want to sacrifice fuel economy. Unless someone buys a majority stake in Mazda, I think they will keep a minimal rotary R&D capacity alive, and eventually will bring back the rotary as it is part of Mazda's corporate identity.

[Raksj04]

The MX-5/miata IS a cheap sports car, when you define sports car as a 2 seat, light & agile vehicle in a coupe/roadster body. The Mustang isn't a sports car in that sense - it's heavier, and has 2+2 seating. Ditto for the Camaro and all the other pony cars & sport coupes out there. They put moonroofs on MS3's and other cars because enough buyers want them and will spend the extra $ to get them.

Back to the OP's point, I think there will be some lean years for the rotary, but I think it will come back eventually. In the near term, I would expect them to prioritize the Skyactive engines and roll them out to the rest of the lineup, which should help the bottom line. Basically market the bread & butter vehicles (2/3/5/6's) as the choice for those who want performance but don't want to sacrifice fuel economy. Unless someone buys a majority stake in Mazda, I think they will keep a minimal rotary R&D capacity alive, and eventually will bring back the rotary as it is part of Mazda's corporate identity.

I agree. I this skyactive Ideal is also postive for Mazda. Hybrids are starting to be known for problems, and MPGs that favor city driving not highway. Since Mazda basicly changed most change the car as well as the engine system to get better MPG which also made more power is great. I am also glad Mazda didnt try to jump on the Hybrid band wagon.

[willnordacgreen1211]

AWD speed 3 would open up a bigger market to enthusiasts.. at least thats what ive always thought.

[reddozen]

AWD speed 3 would open up a bigger market to enthusiasts.. at least thats what ive always thought.

That would be a pretty big draw on the motor and I've heard a lot of the aftermarket guys are having problems with the motor's popping under too much power. This would also be in the opposite direction of the Skyactive movement.

I think a MS 2 would make more since... lighter and potentially faster.

[My5ABaby]

I'd rock a Speed2.

[I love pop-up lights]

Miata won't come out en masse in coupe form. The concept of it being a roadster is part of what the car is and if for whatever reason they decided to make another run of coupes they damn well better be ready to compete in the modern 2-door sport coupe realm. Something the Miata/MX-5 philosophy isn't fully in tune with. Selling in excess of 900,000 units since 1989 they aren't going to screw with the formula they've got. Although another Mazdaspeed edition would be nice and is quite possible.

MS2 would be really nice and deal with the one complaint about it as compared to it's other competitors (mainly the Fit, Fiesta, Yaris and Versa) that being the lack of power. It's already light as hell, another 20-30 ponies would be nice.

[Nutsid]

Mazda has also released statements stating that they are working on a skyactiv version of the rotary engine for future development, and that Mazda will never give up on the rotary so long as it has a soul behind the cars they make. One would argue that souls in cars have long died, and I'd be hard pressed to argue against that even in the case of Mazda. The truth is, the economy will get better and when it does people will want to buy obscure and quirky little cars again. Until then it just doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint for them to build rotary powered cars.

It is also always funny to hear people complain about the Rx8 to me. I was a hater of them from the start, but they solved a ton of issues with that car that most people neglect (by most people, I mean rotary fanatics). They solved the reliability issues with them, the handling is top notch, and comfort/interior quality far exceeds that of previous rotary models.

I still hate the looks of them, but I wouldn't trade my Rx8 in for anything else.

[Nutsid]

The biggest hurdle to the Miata is public image. Outside of mazda and racing circles, the Miata is considered a chick car. As anyone you know that is not knowledgeable about cars and that is what they will tell you. More power will not fix this, styling changes may, a hard top even more possible. But piblic image and reputation is a big ass hurdle....

It is funny you bring this up - I have known more men to own these cars than women. Most women I talk to that are semi-interested in cars think they are gay. It seems to me that as people age they grow an appreciation for the more simplistic things in life, like the pleasure of driving a Miata. Women want something that looks cute or whatever. A Miata doesn't really fit that either.

And as far as I can tell, there are no hurdles with the Miata. It is the most sold sports car of all time, and it continually sells extremely well.

I, like that new guy that I've not seen post at all in BAW named I Love Pop Up Lights, have to say that a Mazdaspeed variant of the new Miata would be most excellent.

[Raksj04]

I still think Mazda should be a Limited editon RX-5 Miata, even if they used the rensis from the RX8 and didn't add any power to it. It is still 50 more ponies then the 2.0L they have in there now. If they built about 500 to 1,000 of these cars I believe they would sell, And the limited number of the cars shouldn't really hurt their avg for mpg and emissions. This would be a great fuller car till the next RX-#. I agree with a removalable hard top like the older MX-5s.

[Raksj04]

Also Mazda but this on thier face book

Mazda
Huge thanks to all of you for helping make last month our best-selling January since 1994—score 1 for driving!

It was the best January ever for our Mazda3, CX-7 and CX-9; Mazda6's best month since 2008; and our Mazda2's best month, ever.

Which year/model Mazda are you driving? Will we have the honor of upgrading your Zoom-Zoom in 2012?


I guess things are getting better.

[My5ABaby]

Good news. Now let's hope that equates to a good profit margin. They've been advertising pretty heavily which is $$$.

[Raksj04]

I am really leaning towards a MS3 for my next car, unless they have something better when I am ready to buy.

[Redhawkjrt]

Mazda to Raise $2 Billion in Share Issue, Loans -- Reuters
By Taiga Uranaka and James Topham
Feb. 21, 2012
Japan′s Mazda Motor Corp plans to raise $2.1 billion to shore up its finances and invest in a new plant in Mexico, financial sources said on Tuesday -- a bigger-than-expected dilutive fundraising that sent its shares tumbling 10 percent.
The loss-making automaker aims to raise 100 billion yen ($1.3 billion) through a public share offering and 70 billion yen through subordinated loans from banks, two sources with knowledge of the matter said.
If Mazda were to raise 100 billion yen through a new issue at Tuesday′s closing share price of 145 yen, just under 690 million shares would need to be added, representing a huge 38.7 percent dilution of existing shares.
"I think share reaction of this size is to be expected for such a large surprising fund-raising," said Kenichi Hirano, operating officer at Tachibana Securities.
Battered by a strong yen, the nation′s No.5 automaker is set to post its fourth straight annual net loss in the financial year to March. This month it predicted red ink of 100 billion yen, much worse than an earlier estimate of a 19 billion yen loss.
Mazda, which makes the Mazda2 subcompact and the Mazda3 compact car, is the most exposed among Japanese automakers to currency swings, building about 70 percent of its vehicles in Japan and exporting 90 percent of those last year.
"The company′s fundamental outlook is still very grim and at the same time there is a huge need for cash," said Koji Endo, analyst at Advanced Research Japan.
"Even if they raise 170 billion yen, which sounds like a pretty big number, when they get done paying the bills, it could evaporate pretty quickly," he said.
To reduce its reliance on exports, Mazda plans to construct a plant in Mexico and renovate its Thai factory, and lift its overseas production ratio to 50 percent from 30 percent in four years time.
Other capital expenditure plans include the introduction of its next-generation engine and transmission technology on all its cars by around 2016. It is also considering a venture with Russian car maker Sollers to produce Mazda cars in Vladivostok, as well as production capacity increases in China.
INDEPENDENCE IN DOUBT
A share offering would follow one in 2009, when Mazda raised 98 billion yen via a mixture of new shares and treasury stock.
One financial source said the new loans would be provided by Sumitomo Mitsui Financial Group, the state-backed Development Bank of Japan and other banks, adding that the announcement could come on Wednesday.
Mazda said in a statement that no official decisions had been made.
Investors have questioned how much longer Mazda, without major market share and unable to remain profitable as a niche brand, will continue in its current form.
"I don′t think Mazda can continue on as an independent, and with its future vision still unknown, it′s hard to make an investment decision on it," said Mitsushige Akino, chief fund manager at Ichiyoshi Investment Management.
Mazda CEO Takashi Yamanouchi said last week the car maker is in talks over project-based tie-ups but played down the possibility of a capital alliance citing its partnership Ford Motor Co.
While the two still operate joint car factories in China and Thailand, their relationship has weakened with Ford′s stake now just 3.5 percent compared with a peak of 33.4 percent.
Shares in Mazda ended down 10 percent after falling as much as 14 percent at one stage. It was the most actively traded stock by volume on the Tokyo bourse′s main board.

[djmtsu]

Still not concerned.

[reddozen]

Still not concerned.

Same... Mazda posted record sales in January. We're talking 24,000 cars at a 68% increase over last January, putting them 12 most cars sold out of 37 brands. More cars than Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Acura, Scion, and several other big names.

I'd say they're a pretty strong company. Their only financial troubles are because they export 90% of their cars from Japan, and the exchange rate of the Yen is stupidly high. They're looking for partners to be able to produce more cars locally thus cutting exchange and importing costs.

They're not going out of business with sales stats like that.

[Raksj04]

I would prefer a American or Canadian build Mazda over a Mexican built one. My brother had a chevy cavalier built in Mexico and that was a POS

[My5ABaby]

It was a Cavalier... It'd be a POS from any country.

[Raksj04]

Mine was made in ohio and it was a little bit better.

[Pete_89T2]

Still not concerned.

Neither am I. In the long term, the investment decisions Mazda is making will reduce their exposure to the risks of currency valuation swings. Just wish they would build a new plant in the US instead of Mexico.

[My5ABaby]

Mine was made in ohio and it was a little bit better.
So yours is "a little better" and the sample size is 1....

:willy_nilly:

[Sephitrask]

I would prefer a American or Canadian build Mazda over a Mexican built one. My brother had a chevy cavalier built in Mexico and that was a POS

VW/Audi have plants in mexico and they do just fine. Its about quality control; the workers are going to do whats expected. From my experience as an employer, I have has quite a few mexican employees (legal ones) and they worked 100X harder than any other employee I ever had

[Nutsid]

VW/Audi have plants in mexico and they do just fine. Its about quality control; the workers are going to do whats expected. From my experience as an employer, I have has quite a few mexican employees (legal ones) and they worked 100X harder than any other employee I ever had

I do not think that quality is what he was worried about - more of opening jobs up in the home front. Quality control is a huge issue, and not just in Mexican plants. Just read the reports on how American car companies do with their quality. It isn't good, and I should know - I work in an American car plant.

[Pete_89T2]

Some of you may have seen this already, but this article gives me hope:

http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-technology/mazda-design-breakthrough-may-give-rotary-new-life

Apparently the engineering staff at Mazda is still doing productive rotary development work.

[Raksj04]

sounds awesome