to eBay or not to eBay?

[DriFD3S]

I am interested in buying an SS Downpipe/midpipe combo,
straight pipes, no catalytic converters,
because, I am a horrible human being...
exhaust wrapping seems like a very very good idea to me,

I found about 3 or 4 different DP/MP's on eBay,
for less than $200...
is this a good idea?
or am I missing something?

Also, my Blitz NUR Spec Cat-Back, will it fit on the eBay pipes?
does anyone know anyone who is selling what I am looking for?

Will my engine blow if I modify the entire exhaust?
I heard about something on "The other forum" called the three strikes rule.
will three modifications without tuning your ECU makes your engine go bye bye really quickly???

Thank you RCC!
you're all like family to me, as we all love rotary!

[Fendamonky]

You have a lot left to learn about these cars....

DO NOT just randomly buy a full exhaust unless you have all the supporting mods (tuneable ECU, boost control, upgraded fuel system, ported wastegate, etc., etc) to back it.

If you do get a full exhaust before your car can handle it then you will (most likely) end up overboosting (boost creep) and blowing your motor.

[Fendamonky]

Also, be aware that many of the kits you're going to find on ebay have DP's made for LHD cars. They WILL NOT work with your RHD vehicle unless they specifically have that big ass dent in the top bend to clear your steering column.

[dabranco]

I wouldn't. usually the quality (my experiance) is that ebay stuff, well the cheap stuff they sell lacks decent quality and fitment can be of. I am not saying all ebay items are like this!!!!! I would look for a brand name or a seller, store, or company that deals with rotary specific parts. I would also look into a tunable ECU first though before you get to heavy into mods.

[DriFD3S]

Thanks for the advice, I will continue to try to do more research,
Still, sorry for my lack of rotary knowledge.

='\ ...

I have a few months until it's summer again,
and my "goal" for myself was these things,

-PFC
-Catless DP/MP
-Air Intake

What other things should be on my list???
please, give me loads of items that are important, and why!
my thirst for knowledge is as unquenchable as Charlie Sheen's pepsi habit!

[Signal 2]

Why are you convinced you DON'T want a cat? Yes, an open exhaust will allow for more power but as mentioned it can also lead to boost creep by overwhelming your wastegate. And a boost controller will NOT help for creep, only porting the wastegate (requires pulling the turbos) or keeping a cat. A resonated mid-pipe MIGHT help, but I have no experience with them so I'm not sure. They do cost more and I think you want to get one that has a proven record with the higher exhaust temps of a rotary.
Keeping a cat, preferably a hi-flow cat, has other advantages too. It helps quiet the car to a level where a stereo is functional. It also keeps the fumes from making your eyes water and smelling like a monkey's ass at high-noon.


And please, enough with the self-flagellation in your posts. It's just wierd. Ask a straight question and I'll (we'll) answer it if we can.

[Fendamonky]

Goddamnit!!!

I just typed out a LONG detailed reply on my phone, and the fucking thing got rejected by the forum (and lost) becaust it took too long...

Basically you cannot safely run a free flow midpipe unless you have a ported wastegate. Otherwise you'll get boost creep.

You'll also want to adress fueling before a MP. The stock system only (barely) supports 13psi, you want more than that.

Cold air matters a lot for power and safety. Upgrade your intercooler and make sure it's ducted!

Auxillary Injection is a godsend. Get it. You can run a 50/50 mix of DISTILLED water and Methanol for fantastic results. I wouldn't use windshield wiper fluid, but that's just me..

[DriFD3S]

#6 - I control power, I don't just want it to have it.
#7 - water/meth injection is a good idea, even under stock circumstances?

I guess I don't have a Honda Civic, or a Nissan R32/S13 where an exhaust and intake will be awesome, I have a much much better car than that.
Honestly, more than anything I expect my car to be able to perform.

#6 - What is a "good" catalytic converter?
#7 - will meth/water help my fuel economy, or help performance to a noticeable extent?

[Signal 2]

AI [Water (distilled) or water/methanol injection] won't do anything for fuel economy. It's primary purpose is to remove heat from the intake charge and, ultimately, from the engine. Heat is stress. Turbos create alot of heat. Heat is reduced by AI. It also functions to reduce knock and control carbon build-up over time. So it is beneficial even on a near-stock car and stock boost levels. This is the case with my car and I have AI (water only).
You can google terms like Auxillary Injection and probably get alot better explanation than I can give you here.

For a high-flow cat, I recommend BONEZ. All stainless, quality contruction, it accomodates the airpump if you still have it and it flows very well. I've had one on my car for over 9 yrs with no issues.

[yzf-r1]

Keeping a cat, preferably a hi-flow cat, has other advantages too. It helps quiet the car to a level where a stereo is functional. It also keeps the fumes from making your eyes water and smelling like a monkey's ass at high-noon.

I've been running a resonated midpipe for a very long time and I don't really notice the vapor/fumes all that much, perhaps I'm just used to it

[Signal 2]

I've been running a resonated midpipe for a very long time and I don't really notice the vapor/fumes all that much, perhaps I'm just used to it
OK, as I said, I don't have experience with them.
I do know a friend's single turbo frequently tracked car with a mid-pipe makes a god-awful stench. I make a point not to follow him in traffic. And as a former smoker (now just the occasional cigar) I'm not all that sensitive, but his exhaust really does make my eyes water. :)
Tuning has something to do with the smell I suppose, but his car is really LOUD too. Fortunately the Harley riders took the heat off of cars like his on that issue.

[Fendamonky]

OK, as I said, I don't have experience with them.
I do know a friend's single turbo frequently tracked car with a mid-pipe makes a god-awful stench.

I think that has a LOT to do with the tune and his cruising AFRs. After getting a tune from Enzo my idle and cruising AFRs were pretty damned rich, I couldn't stay in one spot in my garage for more than 30 seconds before my eyes would start to burn.

After getting it retuned, and having more acceptable AFRs/almost 100 extra whp, I barely noticed the horrible amounts of unburnt fuel in the air. This was with me running a straight (4") exhaust, zero cats and just two mufflers. (Yeah, it's loud as hell now! lol)

[Fendamonky]

AI [Water (distilled) or water/methanol injection] won't do anything for fuel economy. It's primary purpose is to remove heat from the intake charge and, ultimately, from the engine. Heat is stress. Turbos create alot of heat. Heat is reduced by AI. It also functions to reduce knock and control carbon build-up over time. So it is beneficial even on a near-stock car and stock boost levels. This is the case with my car and I have AI (water only).
You can google terms like Auxillary Injection and probably get alot better explanation than I can give you here.

Water/methanol injection serves four purposes, three intentionally and one is a side effect.

The methanol atomizes almost instantly when it enters your intake piping. The process of atomizing leeches heat from the surrounding air, effectively cooling the intake charge. In addition to providing cooling to the air, the methanol adds a little bit of bang for your buck inside the combustion chamber, helping to partially mitigate the non-combustability of water.

Water does not atomize as easily as methanol, as a result you still have the mist of water entering into your combustion chamber. This mist flashes when the actual combustion takes place, it helps to absorb heat from that combustion cycle. The water won't do anything for latent heat during the combustion cycle it's present in, though it WILL help to dramatically reduce the possibility of predetonation. The cooling properties of the water come into play for the following combustion cycle, as it helps remove latent heat from the chamber as it leaves (colder starting temp = colder ending temp).

On the side water and methanol will help keep your engine spotless when it comes to carbon buildup.

We just cracked my engine open this past Friday because I had a problem with a side seal taking a shit. The rotor face and housings were SPOTLESS! There was literally zero carbon buildup on the rotors, around the apex seals, or in the grooves for the apex seals. I was shocked as I expected there to be at least a little something there.

Cooling and power aside... the ability to combat predetonation and cleaning properties should be MORE than enough reason to spring the $400-$500 a decent A/I kit will run you. I'm personally a fan of the Aquamist kits, I picked up their (now discontinued) basic pressure activated kit while I was in England and recently moved on to their HFS-3 kit with rx-7 Summer Unit (damned A/I is smarter than I am, I'm positive!!) and am loving it!

[Signal 2]

^We're getting a bit off-topic, but if that was meant to convince me, your too late. I'm already running AI. :biggthumpup:
Mine is (currently) water only and a very simple (inexpensive and reliable) boost-activated system.
Since I don't run methanol, I don't count on much of a drop in IAT. In fact my IAT sensor is located pre-nozzle, and obviously I don't tune with it.
Thus, my AI only controls 3 things...knock, carbon and heat. The reduced heat is mostly seen in the lack in of temp spikes I previously saw after periods of hard boost. It's those kind of heat spikes that IMO tend produce alot of stress to things like coolant seals.

Good to hear about the clean rotors and seal grooves. My car's put up for the winter but my winter 'list' includes changing out plugs. Unlike before, there's been really no indication they're in need of changing...even though they've been in there about 50% longer. I've had no hard(er) starting, no break up, no slightly lumpy idle. Curious to see what they look like.

[DriFD3S]

^^^ on the topic of spark plugs,
what's the best place to acquire spark plugs??????
seriously, is there a good "source" for them?
or, just anywhere is good? I need new plugs like a heroin addict needs a clean needle.

[Signal 2]

The local chain auto parts stores carry them. I get mine at AUTOZONE. NGK in stock heat ranges unless your heavily modified or have raised boost levels. Get some silver anti-seize while your there and use a little on the plug threads.

[Fendamonky]

^We're getting a bit off-topic, but if that was meant to convince me, your too late. I'm already running AI. :biggthumpup:

Mine is (currently) water only and a very simple (inexpensive and reliable) boost-activated system.

Yeah, I knew you were already running it, my rant on A/I was more geared towards the OP and anybody else who might read the thread that doesn't already have it.

^^^ on the topic of spark plugs,
what's the best place to acquire spark plugs??????
seriously, is there a good "source" for them?
or, just anywhere is good? I need new plugs like a heroin addict needs a clean needle.

Just go with the standard NGK BUREQ7 and BUREQ9 plugs (I'm pretty sure their code is BUREQ). Like Signal said, you really don't have any need for different plugs until you really start to change the boost levels and power output of your engine.

[yzf-r1]

We just cracked my engine open this past Friday because I had a problem with a side seal taking a shit. The rotor face and housings were SPOTLESS!

After how much time? My rotors looked great after 20k using Amsoil Interceptor 2 stroke pre-mix oil (and driving the car hard helps as well). With that said, the water/alcohol makes alot of sense and I'll put it on someday, I just don't really feel a need to turn the boost up because I get enough tickets already and beat essentially 99% of the cars on the road as it is

[yzf-r1]

The reduced heat is mostly seen in the lack in of temp spikes I previously saw after periods of hard boost. It's those kind of heat spikes that IMO tend produce alot of stress to things like coolant seals.

This is a great point, and probably the best argument of all for water injection

Oh - and use Iridium plugs, they are the ONLY plugs that last 10k+ in these motors

[Fendamonky]

After how much time? My rotors looked great after 20k using Amsoil Interceptor 2 stroke pre-mix oil (and driving the car hard helps as well). With that said, the water/alcohol makes alot of sense and I'll put it on someday, I just don't really feel a need to turn the boost up because I get enough tickets already and beat essentially 99% of the cars on the road as it is

That's after only about 5k miles I'd guess. Sucks that the engine is down again because of that, but in all honesty it'd need to get rebuilt again anyway since a crap tune I had (for about 3 months) warped the apex seals in my rear rotor.

Funny thing is though, I still made basically 470whp with low compression, bad rear seals, and a weak side seal. I'm VERY curious to see how much I'll make with everything working as it should.

[yzf-r1]

Good luck...

[Signal 2]

....the water/alcohol makes alot of sense and I'll put it on someday, I just don't really feel a need to turn the boost up because I get enough tickets already and beat essentially 99% of the cars on the road as it is
I'm also at stock boost on a relatively stock engine (just bolt-ons, emissions deleated and PFC). I have less than $300 in my system and it's pretty low key, using stock WS washer tank (I can PM you a link on another form with pictures if interested). Bought everything and then procrastinated for over a year.
I guess my point is...I understand that "someday" thing, but I wouldn't delay getting it just because your still at stock boost. ;) In the summer I used to see spikes of 10 C or more after rowing hard through the gears getting on the freeway. Now...maybe 2 or 3 C. and that's with it set to come on at 2 psi.

[DriFD3S]

So, from this thread we have deducted this:
AI is a good thing,
eBay parts are shit,
spark plugs are important.

mind = blown... =\ .

[Fendamonky]

This is a great point, and probably the best argument of all for water injection

Depending on whether he's talking about water temp's spiking or air temps spiking I can def support it.

The cooling that water provides to the rotor housing will def take significant stress off the other parts of your cooling system, that's a very good thing :) Your water temps will also really benefit from having good oil cooling (dual) that are properly ducted. Also make sure that (both) your radiator fans are working properly!!


As for Air Temps, once the water/meth starts spraying you can def expect to see your temps plummet. With my VMIC setup I'll normall see intake air temps of about 8-10 degrees (Celsius) above ambient air while cruising around. Once the A/I starts spraying (and you're getting on it!) that temp will drop even closer to the ambient temperature. Each pulse in normal driving will normally drop the temperature a degree or two until it's down to 2-3 degrees above ambient.

Colder air = denser air. Denser air = more oxygen. More oxygen = more power.

[Signal 2]

I'm talking about engine cooling (w/in the combustion chamber) not the intake charge...although there is some benefit there as well even with water-only and a properly sized nozzle.
Heat is going out the exhaust and is not having to be conducted out through the irons and housings and into the cooling system.

[yzf-r1]

I'm also at stock boost on a relatively stock engine (just bolt-ons, emissions deleated and PFC). I have less than $300 in my system and it's pretty low key, using stock WS washer tank (I can PM you a link on another form with pictures if interested).

Sure - thanks

I guess my point is...I understand that "someday" thing, but I wouldn't delay getting it just because your still at stock boost. ;) In the summer I used to see spikes of 10 C or more after rowing hard through the gears getting on the freeway. Now...maybe 2 or 3 C. and that's with it set to come on at 2 psi.

I run 14-15 psi

[Signal 2]

....I run 14-15 psi
Then I mis-understood you earlier. You should definitely get a kit.

[Fendamonky]

The rotor face and housings were SPOTLESS! There was literally zero carbon buildup on the rotors, around the apex seals, or in the grooves for the apex seals. I was shocked as I expected there to be at least a little something there.

Just for comparison sake...

Here's a pic I pulled off google of a rotor with carbon buildup. (I'm fairly certain this is AFTER the rotors had been cleaned to a certain extent)

http://roadtochumpcar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/IMG_2052-600x450.jpg

http://roadtochumpcar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/IMG_2027-600x450.jpg

http://roadtochumpcar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/IMG_2054-600x450.jpg

Not a pretty sight.... (I'm fairly certain the thread/page I pulled these from had the guy putting this rotor INTO a "new" engine!!!)



Versus what came out of mine with A/I spraying.

(obviously this is FRESH out of the engine, there is still oil pooling underneath everything. I'm willing to wager that a minute or two with a dry rag would have had 90% of the discoloration gone)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3/fendamonky2/PC020005.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3/fendamonky2/PC020006.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3/fendamonky2/PC020009.jpg


Not to beat the horse to death... But spending a couple hundred bucks on a water injection system is WELL worth the long term effects.

[Signal 2]

Impressive. I'm really curious now to see what my plugs will look like.

[yzf-r1]

Looks good, but honestly my rotors looked very close to that - after 20k+ miles - just running Amsoil Interceptor 2 stroke oil (pre-mix). They polished up in about 10 minutes and I put them right back in. Most heavily carboned rotors seem to be the result on driving the car like a grandma and/or using the stock OMP with four stroke oil (which isn't designed to burn in the combustion chamber).

With that said, I'm sure alcoholo/water helps as well...