Dealership Can't fix my problem :-(

[okc_rocker]

OK, I took my 2004 rx8 (100,000 miles) to the local mazda dealership. I had them install race headers, catless pipe, and full catback exhaust. I also had them install an ACT streetlite flywheel. While it was in the shop they replaced the starter as well. Here's the problem, car starts fine, idles at 1,000-2,000RPM's upon start for the first minute, then idles at 500RPM's. After about 5 mintues of driving, everytime you stop the car the engine dies. Starts back up just fine though. The dealership told me that the flywheel I ordered (13lbs.) is way to light for my engine and that is why the engine dies at every stop...This is a huge annoyance and I do not believe that this could be the problem, I've called 3 renowned Mazda tuning shops and they all said the flywheel being the problem is impossible. I also called 3 other import tuning shops and they said the exact same thing. I even called ACT and they said, their flywheel can't be the problem of the engine dying. Could somebody please help me out with this?

[vex]

I'd check for vac leaks.

[Pete_89T2]

It's not the flywheel, that's for certain. Frankly I'd question the competence and reputability of the Mazda dealership you brought it to. Based on your post, I see several red flags that lead me to think these guys are shady. First, why did they replace your starter - was it broken or causing problems? No need to do so given the job described. Second, by doing the full job described (i.e., presumably by chucking your cat(s) to replace with headers & catless pipe) they intentionally run afoul of federal laws against tampering with emissions gear, irrelevant if you ordered them to do the work or not. Reputable dealerships generally don't do this sort of thing, even on a car that's got 100K miles or is out of warranty.

Back to your question, I'd start looking for any & all electrical connections or vacuum hoses that may have been distrurbed during the course of the work. My guess is you'll find something they forgot to reconnect or may have broken. I'm not too familiar with the RX8, but the work done requires removal of LOTS of components to do the job. Does your check engine light (CEL) come on, or did you try reading the CEL codes using an OBD-II code scanner in case the CEL isn't on, but codes may be stored?

[djmtsu]

I First, why did they replace your starter - was it broken or causing problems? No need to do so given the job described.

He probably had the original, recalled weak ass starter. I would (and did to mine ) upgrade to the new one. Makes the car start immediately.

And yes, it sounds like it has a vacuum leak or something. However, if that was the case, you should have a light on. If you don't, I would still hook it up to a scanner that can read real-time data from the ECM.

When was the last time (if ever) you cleaned the throttle body?

They get pretty gunked up form the PCV system. I know mine ran a shitload smoother once I took mine off and cleaned it.

[Pete_89T2]

He probably had the original, recalled weak ass starter. I would (and did to mine ) upgrade to the new one. Makes the car start immediately.

Interesting, had no idea they recalled the starter. Is that something Mazda replaces for free under warranty, or is this recall optional? Good to know info regardless, incase I ever pick up an RX8.

[LunchboxCritter]

Did they replace the counter weight when they replaced the flywheel with a light weight one?

[Sephitrask]

Did they replace the counter weight when they replaced the flywheel with a light weight one?

I would think that it would be VERY obvious if they did not put on a counter weight. If I remember correctly, the counterweight is actually a part of the stock flywheel, so if they just put on a flywheel and no new weight at all the engine would prolly run like crap.
Definitely sounds like a vac leak, or something not plugged in right. Start at the front of your engine bay and check every connector to be sure they are connected correctly and completely. Then follow every vacuum line, making sure they are connected at both ends.

[eppo37]

I've had a similar problem with my '04 RX8 twice. But it was caused by 2 different issues.

The first time, I installed a new midpipe. It messed with the readings from the O2 sensor near the catalytic converter. That in turn screwed with my fuel mixture, causing the engine to stall when the RPMs slowed to much. It also idled very rough, and would almost stall while idling. If that does turn out to be an issue for you, it helps to reset the ECU setting to factory. It will help until the computer starts to change the mixture again.

The second time, the car started dying for no apparent reason when I would stop, and I would occasionally notice a flicker in the radio display. After much trial and error, I figured out that I wasn't getting an even flow of power from the battery. My contacts were clean, but not conducting properly. I replaced them with a $5 set of contacts from AutoZone and haven't had an issue since. Since we both have an '04, I suppose it could be worth checking.

[WE3RX7]

It sounds like the first step would be a reset of the ECU. The light flywheel and exhaust changes will affect the fuel mixtures at idle or when coming in/out of gear. Disconnect the battery and let it reset completely, then reconnect and drive around some going through the gears.

I agree that it "sounds" like a vac problem, but none of the work you had done should have touched any vac lines. Just sounds like it hasn't learned the changes yet and can't hold the idle when the RPM falls too low.

You should have a CEL by now too for sure... I'd run the codes on 'em all...

[eppo37]

You can also do this to reset the ECU (this is how I used to do it):

1. Turn ignition switch to ON position, but do not start engine.

2. Quickly pump the brake pedal 20 times

[project86]

then idles at 500RPM's.

I dont own an Rx8 but... isnt this pretty low idle for rotary in general?:dunno:

I know i dont like my idle on my FC that low.. I think i had mine set somewhere between 750-1k rpms.

[Redshft]

My RX8 idles at approx 850rpm (with a bit of hunting) according to my data logs.
The ECU reset thing is probably a good place to start, but it could be a lot of things. The main reason I say reset the ECU is, purely coincidentally, somebody in a thread on AccessPort tuning I was reading yesterday commented that their car died and had a hard time idling due to having issues with the learning the fuel trim on their new map.

Speaking of ECUs, being an 04, what flash version is the ECU on? The 04 RX8s got more updates than Microsoft Windows for the first year or two.

As for the starter, the 04s (and I think some 05s) had a hard start TSB with one of the fixes being to exchange for the updated starter which is much better. It wasn't a recall, but if you were still under warranty and complained about a hard start, most dealerships would just do the swap, especially if you pointed them to the TSB.

[diabolical1]

It sounds like the first step would be a reset of the ECU. The light flywheel and exhaust changes will affect the fuel mixtures at idle or when coming in/out of gear. Disconnect the battery and let it reset completely, then reconnect and drive around some going through the gears.

+1

this is my thought as well.

on a totally separate note, i'm impressed that you found a Mazda dealer willing to do all that they did to your car.

[j9fd3s]

Interesting, had no idea they recalled the starter. Is that something Mazda replaces for free under warranty, or is this recall optional? Good to know info regardless, incase I ever pick up an RX8.

it wasn't a recall, but they do have a bulletin that says to replace the starter if the car has the symptoms (off the top it might be flooding, but i'm not sure). there is also a bigger battery.

the starter takes cranking rpm from 225-250 to like 350, it makes a big difference

[Dannobre]

They plug the WBO2 sensor back in?

Transmission switches can cause strange idles......check those connections as well

Both of theose would have been disconnected to remove the tranny

[stinksause]

OP, did you figure out ur problem?

[mfisher12]

check compression

[NYCGPS]

OK, I took my 2004 rx8 (100,000 miles) to the local mazda dealership. I had them install race headers, catless pipe, and full catback exhaust. I also had them install an ACT streetlite flywheel. While it was in the shop they replaced the starter as well. Here's the problem, car starts fine, idles at 1,000-2,000RPM's upon start for the first minute, then idles at 500RPM's. After about 5 mintues of driving, everytime you stop the car the engine dies. Starts back up just fine though. The dealership told me that the flywheel I ordered (13lbs.) is way to light for my engine and that is why the engine dies at every stop...This is a huge annoyance and I do not believe that this could be the problem, I've called 3 renowned Mazda tuning shops and they all said the flywheel being the problem is impossible. I also called 3 other import tuning shops and they said the exact same thing. I even called ACT and they said, their flywheel can't be the problem of the engine dying. Could somebody please help me out with this?

Fuck that dealership, I hate how ppl knows completely nothing about cars (not just Rotary) are working on cars @ dealerships

again, has Nothing to do with Lightweight FW nor a goat nor Jesus.

Your Engine is on it's way to heaven. I've been there and done that, you should have check compression before you dump all the money to Replace those stuff


I'd check for vac leaks.

It's not vac leaks. Vac Leaks will give him CEL fast. System runs lean.

It's not the flywheel, that's for certain. Frankly I'd question the competence and reputability of the Mazda dealership you brought it to. Based on your post, I see several red flags that lead me to think these guys are shady. First, why did they replace your starter - was it broken or causing problems? No need to do so given the job described. Second, by doing the full job described (i.e., presumably by chucking your cat(s) to replace with headers & catless pipe) they intentionally run afoul of federal laws against tampering with emissions gear, irrelevant if you ordered them to do the work or not. Reputable dealerships generally don't do this sort of thing, even on a car that's got 100K miles or is out of warranty.

Mazda updated the Starter around late 2005, With a faster spinning (stronger motor) version, instead of 1.4KW, it's rated at 2.0KW (actual power is around 1.7-1.8kw)

Back to your question, I'd start looking for any & all electrical connections or vacuum hoses that may have been distrurbed during the course of the work. My guess is you'll find something they forgot to reconnect or may have broken. I'm not too familiar with the RX8, but the work done requires removal of LOTS of components to do the job. Does your check engine light (CEL) come on, or did you try reading the CEL codes using an OBD-II code scanner in case the CEL isn't on, but codes may be stored?


Nope. wrong.

He probably had the original, recalled weak ass starter. I would (and did to mine ) upgrade to the new one. Makes the car start immediately.

And yes, it sounds like it has a vacuum leak or something. However, if that was the case, you should have a light on. If you don't, I would still hook it up to a scanner that can read real-time data from the ECM.

When was the last time (if ever) you cleaned the throttle body?

They get pretty gunked up form the PCV system. I know mine ran a shitload smoother once I took mine off and cleaned it.

there was NEVER a recall on the starter, Mazda simply updated the part with a newer one, if u had the original 2004 to Early 2005 Starter, you can replace it when u were under b2b warranty.

otherwise, just buy a 2007+ starter, replace it, and call it a day.

Did they replace the counter weight when they replaced the flywheel with a light weight one?


I would think that it would be VERY obvious if they did not put on a counter weight. If I remember correctly, the counterweight is actually a part of the stock flywheel, so if they just put on a flywheel and no new weight at all the engine would prolly run like crap.
Definitely sounds like a vac leak, or something not plugged in right. Start at the front of your engine bay and check every connector to be sure they are connected correctly and completely. Then follow every vacuum line, making sure they are connected at both ends.

Jesus people, do you even know what you guys are talking about? seriously.

there is no "Replace counter weight with a light weight one", Counterweight is part of the rotating assembly. you cannot , repeat, you CANNOT replace it with another "lighter weight" one, it will completely throw the balance off and there for, kill your engine. That's why getting the CORRECT counterweight for your car is very important. RX-8? just get a RX-8 Counterweight. FD and S5 FC uses the same counterweight, S4 has it's own, and so and so.

Not to mention, you simply CANNOT mount an aftermarket flywheel WITHOUT the use of the counterweight.

Also, there is NO counter weight on stock cast iron flywheel, simply because stock flywheel is so fucking heavy it can balance anything the front of engine has. RX-8's stock flywheel is still the lightest Stock Flywheel out of all Rotary engine cars tho (about 16 lbs total)

Stock Mazda PCM will need about 2-3 drive cycles to build LTFT and STFT for it's closed loop operation, that explains why some cars will experience these "hopping idle" after the car is warmed up. it's actually normal. after it completed it's FT building, idle will be stable or throw a CEL.

If you have no idea what Closed Loop/Open loop is, lemme give u guys a lesson.

put it at layman's term, Open loop is the PCM(Computer) has a pre-determined table that throws fuel before the car is completely warm up, Just like if you're super good at typing, you should be able to type blindfolded, right ? but on the other hand, because you are blindfolded, there is no way to tell if you typed something wrong. correct?

this is what Closed loop comes in, after the car is warmed up (CAT temp above 500 Celsius I think, and Coolant above 150 or 60 Degrees F), The ECU will use the Oxygen Feedback from your Front O2 Sensor to build a "Fuel Trim". that's like taking your blindfold off to type, now you see everything, you know what you did wrong, but it's a brand new keyboard and you need some time to get used to, after a while, u are so used to the keyboard, instead of typing 50 words a minute with couple errors here and there, now u can type 100 words a minute with maybe just 1 or 2 errors.

Get it ?

check compression

what sup dude, lol

[rotar bones]

Is 500 rpm really enough?. My 2004 8 idles at around 750 rpm?.

[chibikougan]

My god people the OP posted this thread in April of 2011 let it die.....


750 rpm is fine...

[RETed]

I don't normally come in this section, but...

...seeing a number of people who would not normally post in an RX-8 section...

It *IS* possible for a lightened flywheel to affect idle...
It is even possible that it could be so light that engine will not be able to run a stable idle.

The flywheel is...a flywheel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel
It stores potential energy, which is definied by it's mass.
Larger the mass -> larger the potential energy stored.
By lowering the mass, the flywheel cannot store as much potential energy now.
Think of it as a "buffer" for the mechanical energy by the engine.
The engine does not produce a steady-state amount of energy at any one time.
Due to it's configuration and design, it's a complex bunch of harmonics of bursts of energy.
This is where a "heavy" flywheel can help.

The old-school guys who used to run insanely light flywheels can atest that these can affect idle like mad.
Couple super lightened flywheels with unsteady idles due to massive porting - i.e. bridges and peripherals - you got one ungodly engine trying to idle properly.
This is why these things do no idle below 1,500RPM's and in some cases up to 2,000RPM's!


-Ted

[Dannobre]

The first thing that effects the idle in an RX-8 is the trailing ignition componenets......so start there :) The second most common is compression issues...

I had a very light flywheel and superlight clutch pressue plate....never had idle problems

[rotar bones]

My god people the OP posted this thread in April of 2011 let it die.....


750 rpm is fine...

Why let it die?:). There are new people here every day and to them it isn't old stuff:hurray:.

When I started to premix it changed my idle completely in that it smoothed it out so that it is hardly noticeable.

[rotar bones]

OK, I took my 2004 rx8 (100,000 miles) to the local mazda dealership. I had them install race headers, catless pipe, and full catback exhaust. I also had them install an ACT streetlite flywheel. While it was in the shop they replaced the starter as well. Here's the problem, car starts fine, idles at 1,000-2,000RPM's upon start for the first minute, then idles at 500RPM's. After about 5 mintues of driving, everytime you stop the car the engine dies. Starts back up just fine though. The dealership told me that the flywheel I ordered (13lbs.) is way to light for my engine and that is why the engine dies at every stop...This is a huge annoyance and I do not believe that this could be the problem, I've called 3 renowned Mazda tuning shops and they all said the flywheel being the problem is impossible. I also called 3 other import tuning shops and they said the exact same thing. I even called ACT and they said, their flywheel can't be the problem of the engine dying. Could somebody please help me out with this?

Never seen a stealer ship ever put any thing on a car except stock OEM parts period:dunno:. Don't believe it.

[Fendamonky]

Why let it die?:). There are new people here every day and to them it isn't old stuff:hurray:.

Let me give you a small piece of advice. People on most any forum on the internet tend to get annoyed by "new people" bumping up threads from years earlier simply to make a useless statement.

You, in particular, have managed to piss off or annoy just about every person you've spoken to so far on this forum. I personally find this statement of yours annoying partially because it adds zero value to the thread, but also because you're suddenly trying to play the "new guy" card, after being a raging douche in other threads while trying to validate your "pugilistic" behavior by stating that you've been an owner for many years.

Pick an approach and stick with it, or accept the fact that you're just being a troll.

[rotar bones]

Let me give you a small piece of advice. People on most any forum on the internet tend to get annoyed by "new people" bumping up threads from years earlier simply to make a useless statement.

You, in particular, have managed to piss off or annoy just about every person you've spoken to so far on this forum. I personally find this statement of yours annoying partially because it adds zero value to the thread, but also because you're suddenly trying to play the "new guy" card, after being a raging douche in other threads while trying to validate your "pugilistic" behavior by stating that you've been an owner for many years.

Pick an approach and stick with it, or accept the fact that you're just being a troll.

Firstly I don't think this kind of put down conversation belongs here. You can send me a pm if your so pissed off as you call it. This kind of behavior isn't very adult on your part. If you want to put me down , do it in a pm not here son:nopity:. We can discuss it in a -pm ok. This thread isn't about put downs so please if you have a beef just pm me ok and knock off the Jr attitude ok, I don't care if you like me or not:smash:.

[chibikougan]

You said you where leaving and then bagged on the forum as being a problem last night. Please honor that post and just leave.

[RETed]

1) Fendamonkey is right: thread resurrections are frowned upon, especially when nothing new and helpful was offered.
You might think this reply is antagonistic, but these types of replies are trying to steer you in the right direction.
If you're going to keep ignoring these hints, see below...

2) The original poster (OP) posted this one thread and has never logged back on...since posting this thread...in 2011.
Respect the OP's thread and leave it alone.
No one really addressed the question about the flywheel part EXCEPT ME, so I can consider all the other replies as "fluff."
You're welcome to send a PM directly to the OP, but don't hold your breath for a response.
I have been on certain online forums where thread resurrections (anywhere from 6 months to a year) can be considered a disciplinary infraction of the rules.
A better approach is to START A NEW THREAD and then REFERENCE BACK TO THE OLD THREAD WITH A LINK, if you really insist you need to do this.

3) Mr. rotar bones, you're already threading on thin ice.
We can turn around and lecture you about YOU sending your particular reply through PM as a more appropriate means and not dirtying this thread.
The above reply does not constitute anything new or helpful to the original thread.
AGAIN, I REMIND YOU THIS IS A TECH SUBSECTION.
You might think you're safe by not blatantly break any obvious rules, but keep this negative attitude up with this type of unnecessary replies in public, and you will be banned very quickly.
AGAIN, I REMIND YOU THAT YOU ARE BEING MONITORED VERY CLOSELY AT THIS POINT IN TIME.


Since we're on that note...
Unless someone has a good reason to keep this thread open, I'm closing it.


-Ted