Goopy Performance resurfaced rotor housings,THEY WORK!!!

[Judge Ito]

I have been working with Jon from Goopy Performance on and off for many years. Many times we have different views, but when he comes up with something that works, well I have no choice but to post some of my results and experiences. Jon has perfected a way of resurfacing used rotor housings. I mean this is pretty impressive considering most of us throw away rotor housings that he brings back to life. I will post pics of before and after.

Back in late 2007 Jon came over to me and asked me to try some crappy rotor housings he had resurfaced. I looked at them and said "Jon this will not work" Jon said: "Ito just try them". To give you guys an idea, those housings were grooved pretty bad by the outer edges of the housing and the trailing plug area were full of vertical grooves .(a common problem) and pretty much garbage. I Put 1 engine together using his used resurfaced housings with New oem 2mm apex seals. After 200 miles of driving I gave the engine a compression test @ 195 degrees of coolant temp. The engine gave me 125-128 psi with a conventional compression tester.

Since then I have put a few engines together with Jon's resurfacing. The better the housings are to start with, the better the resutls. The FIRST THING I NOTICE IS THE REALLY GOOD FLAT SURFACE after the resurface. On my last engine I did a compression test and pulled 131-132psi using his 2mm apex seals. I was stunned to say the least. I'm here applauding Jon from Goopy performance not for perfecting this resurfacing on other wise rotor housings we would have thrown in the garbage, but for his continued hard work to improve all kinds of minor and great details this engine has to offer.

for info. you could pm me.. I'm a skeptic that turned into a believer. congrats Jon.
pics of before.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/rotorhousing.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/rotorhousing2.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/rotorhousing3.jpg
AFTER

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/resurfacedrotorhousing.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/resrotorhou2.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/resrtrhou3.jpg
enjoy

[RICE RACING]

They look great :)

Are they running on the SS liner after removing those very deep marks? do you have any pictures of a housing that has run say 20,000 miles on OEM seals & high power after this process has been done.

What is the cost.

[Judge Ito]

They look great :)

Are they running on the SS liner after removing those very deep marks? do you have any pictures of a housing that has run say 20,000 miles on OEM seals & high power after this process has been done.

What is the cost.Yes I have an engine apart, after this resurface. i'll take pics soon. price is 125.00 us dollars. for you aussies you figure out the difference in mula. that includes the cleaning of rotor housings.

[mazdadude7]

that looks amazing :) seems to be cheap as well.

[Kentetsu]

Great info! (should really fix the spelling in the title though) :)

Welcome aboard Goopy!


.

[speedjunkie]

Spectacular. I always wondered if this could be done, and hoped someone would figure out how someday. LOVE IT!

[t_g_farrell]

I can't really tell on the before pics, but was there any flaking of the
surfaces on the edges of the housings or were they just scratched and scored?

[jerd_hambone]

Is that a coating on there, or is that just a really clean housing?!

[2gslse]

Impressive would like more info as well

[Judge Ito]

I can't really tell on the before pics, but was there any flaking of the
surfaces on the edges of the housings or were they just scratched and scored?

those particular rotor housings had no flaking to begin with, just grooves. grooves were eliminated and a flat surface was achieved.

[Judge Ito]

Is that a coating on there, or is that just a really clean housing?!

no coating, just a grinding of the surface.

[Judge Ito]

Impressive would like more info as welli'll have jon come and shed some info. on this. over all it's a homerun.

[Ian]

So this process will not get rid of the corner seal wear from the three piece seals? I have a few housings that have this wear. More or less the chrome is flake right off..

[Judge Ito]

So this process will not get rid of the corner seal wear from the three piece seals? I have a few housings that have this wear. More or less the chrome is flake right off..no it will not, but if you decided to use rotor housings in that condition(many of us have) including myself. this type of work will only make those type of housings seal better. that's why i say, it's a homerun. you can't loose. the better the housing, the better the result, but a better rotor housing will come out of this resurface even if it's flaked.

this is a video of my kid's turbo II. her daily driver. this engine had rotor housings with flaked edges. Jon did the resurface for me. 3 years later engine(ported) pulls 12inches of vacuum and run's 13's all day on a stock turbo, stock ecu, ect,ect.

http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/?action=view&current=Picture017.flv

[Judge Ito]

that day at the track was november of 2007.. car ran 13.4 to 13.8 all day @ 103mph at 9psi of boost.

[Judge Ito]

engine@ idle.. 750 Rpm's 12 inches of vacuum on a decently large streeport..


http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/?action=view&current=Picture012.flv

[Judge Ito]

picture of the actual streetport on my kid's turboII.. and need I say she drives her turbo II like a MAD women every single day.




http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/streetport3.jpg

[Judge Ito]

my kid's turbo II engine was the first guinea pig. 3 years later still pulls 12 inches and 125 to 128psi of compression on the tester. those rotor housings had flaked edges.. I repeat, I'm a skeptic that turned into a believer.. cheers..

[Judge Ito]

my nephews series 5 turbo II. also has this work done to it. his rotor housings had no flaking to begging with. this engines pulls 14-14.9 inches of vacuum with my streetport.


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[Judge Ito]

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[NoDOHC]

I like those ports! No wasted little digs upward on the housing side of the port to delay port close while not helping flow.

I think they might be a little big for my blood though. Mine pulls 18" Hg at Idle (5 BTDC and bone stock close time).

Still, I really like this re-chromed housing idea.

[TitaniumTT]

Its not re-chroming, it's machining the existing housing. Jon brought a few of these to the rotary factory meet and I was impressed with them. He'll be getting a pair or two of mine to machine down shortly.

[t_g_farrell]

I'd like to hear from Goopy about the basic process they are doing to
achive this. Not that they have to give away any proprietary info, just
an outline of what they do to achieve this and what tech they use
to make it happen. Like, is this a grind down and then recoat with
some surface treatment or is it some sort of resleaving of the inner
surface.

TT said its just a machined surface. So if thats the case the housing to
rotor apex seal clearance increases. I expect this is why they recommend
their apex seals. How much typically does it increase I wonder?

[JustJeff]

^ I'm guessing it's a similar process to having irons lapped. I doubt the amount they take off will affect housing to apex seal clearance. Apex seal springs are pressing the seals into the housing. It's evening out the surface of the housings and thus providing better compression.

From Judge Ito's endorsement, it breaths new life into worn housings.

[NoDOHC]

Oh, so they don't re-crome them?

That makes it much easier, as the criteria can be easily determined - no gouges through the chrome.

[Judge Ito]

Oh, so they don't re-crome them?

That makes it much easier, as the criteria can be easily determined - no gouges through the chrome.

no re-chrome....

[GoopyPerformance]

In today's economy everyone is looking for cost effective solutions and the best way to get maximum performance for their dollar. That was Goopy Performance's thinking and objective behind our ROTOR HOUSING REFURBISHING service.

When any of us consider rebuilding a rotary engine, the condition of the housings is a key factor. Up until now the options have been either 1.) use your housings as is or 2.) buy new housings at the cost of approximately $1,300 per pair or more. If porting had already been done on these housings, the real cost of replacement could include an additional $200 to $400.

Goopy Performance's process provides a solution at approximately 10% of the cost of replacement while providing not a 100% new surface for your seals to break into but a "like new" surface in the very high 90 percentile (95-99%) in most cases.

Here is an attempt to answer most of your questions from recent posts ...

1. We are NOT resurfacing or adding new material to the housings. We are refurbishing or refreshing the existing hard chrome surface.

2. NO we do not have data or photos showing results after 20,000 miles. However, we have had very high HP racers running our refurbished housings with our Goopy Performance Apex Seals for a full race season (40-50+ passes) while maintaining very high compression and no damage of any kind.

3. PRICING is $125 US per pair of housings with you paying for the shipping to and from Goopy Performance. This includes media blasting of the housings to achieve the "like new" appearance as seen in Judge Ito's photos. Please do not send dirty, greasy housings or there will be an additional $25 “Cleaning Fee”.

4. Our refurbishing process greatly improves all of the conditions mentioned in various different posts ... scratches, scoring, gauling and flaking edges. Our process provides a relatively flat, uniform, matte housing surface for your new seals to break-in to. The true measure of the effectiveness of the process is the compression numbers that are achieved when your engine is rebuilt, not just how the housings look. Our experience with our refurbishing along with using our Goopy Performance Apex Seals is that we have consistently produced compression readings at or above factory stock specifications. Also refer to Judge Ito’s experience after 3 years of having compression numbers of 125-128 psi.

5. The SIDE PIECE on the Goopy Performance Apex Seals does not come to such a sharp point at the housing surface like if does on many other apex seal designs. We believe this design improvement yields less wear and deterioration at the housing edges that cause potential compression leakage.

6. In most cases the amount of material removed to achieve these “like new” results is relatively insignificant. In our experience, utilizing our Goopy Performance Apex Seals which are manufactured at the same height as OEM seals, we have not experienced any issues due to the removal of this minimal amount of material.

7. If you are unsure if your housings are candidates for our refurbishing process please send photos and description to info@goopyperformance.com before expending your time and resources on packing and shipping.
However, if we receive housings that we consider to be beyond repair with our process, we will notify you before any work is done.

8. We provide our housing refurbishing service on all models of rotor housings.

Please email to info@goopyperformance.com if we have not addressed all of your earlier questions or new ones have come up in the meantime.

[hades]

awesome stuff.

Do you guys do other engine work - rebuilds, porting, etc?

[Judge Ito]

In today's economy everyone is looking for cost effective solutions and the best way to get maximum performance for their dollar. That was Goopy Performance's thinking and objective behind our ROTOR HOUSING REFURBISHING service.

When any of us consider rebuilding a rotary engine, the condition of the housings is a key factor. Up until now the options have been either 1.) use your housings as is or 2.) buy new housings at the cost of approximately $1,300 per pair or more. If porting had already been done on these housings, the real cost of replacement could include an additional $200 to $400.

Goopy Performance's process provides a solution at approximately 10% of the cost of replacement while providing not a 100% new surface for your seals to break into but a "like new" surface in the very high 90 percentile (95-99%) in most cases.

Here is an attempt to answer most of your questions from recent posts ...

1. We are NOT resurfacing or adding new material to the housings. We are refurbishing or refreshing the existing hard chrome surface.

2. NO we do not have data or photos showing results after 20,000 miles. However, we have had very high HP racers running our refurbished housings with our Goopy Performance Apex Seals for a full race season (40-50+ passes) while maintaining very high compression and no damage of any kind.

3. PRICING is $125 US per pair of housings with you paying for the shipping to and from Goopy Performance. This includes media blasting of the housings to achieve the "like new" appearance as seen in Judge Ito's photos. Please do not send dirty, greasy housings or there will be an additional $25 “Cleaning Fee”.

4. Our refurbishing process greatly improves all of the conditions mentioned in various different posts ... scratches, scoring, gauling and flaking edges. Our process provides a relatively flat, uniform, matte housing surface for your new seals to break-in to. The true measure of the effectiveness of the process is the compression numbers that are achieved when your engine is rebuilt, not just how the housings look. Our experience with our refurbishing along with using our Goopy Performance Apex Seals is that we have consistently produced compression readings at or above factory stock specifications. Also refer to Judge Ito’s experience after 3 years of having compression numbers of 125-128 psi.

5. The SIDE PIECE on the Goopy Performance Apex Seals does not come to such a sharp point at the housing surface like if does on many other apex seal designs. We believe this design improvement yields less wear and deterioration at the housing edges that cause potential compression leakage.

6. In most cases the amount of material removed to achieve these “like new” results is relatively insignificant. In our experience, utilizing our Goopy Performance Apex Seals which are manufactured at the same height as OEM seals, we have not experienced any issues due to the removal of this minimal amount of material.

7. If you are unsure if your housings are candidates for our refurbishing process please send photos and description to info@goopyperformance.com before expending your time and resources on packing and shipping.
However, if we receive housings that we consider to be beyond repair with our process, we will notify you before any work is done.

8. We provide our housing refurbishing service on all models of rotor housings.

Please email to info@goopyperformance.com if we have not addressed all of your earlier questions or new ones have come up in the meantime.

thank you..

[RotaryXperiment]

will it matter if u are using new or used apex seals to have a difference with these redone housings?

[Judge Ito]

will it matter if u are using new or used apex seals to have a difference with these redone housings?I have personally used them with new apex seals on every build. sometimes used apex seals have a step on them. so If you do use, used apex seals that spec. out good enough for a rebuild. a longer break in process will have to take place.

[RotaryXperiment]

motor has about 10k miles on atkins seals. the front iron cracked on dowel land so i gotta tear it down and replace the plate. btw ITO its alex.
motor still sounds like it has compression

[To_Slow]

They look good, How many thou.001 max do you grind down on the housing?

What type of CNC/grinder do you guys you use to keep it very consistent...?

Thanks

[Judge Ito]

motor has about 10k miles on atkins seals. the front iron cracked on dowel land so i gotta tear it down and replace the plate. btw ITO its alex.
motor still sounds like it has compressionu cracked a plate? you have other issues to worry about Alex..

[Judge Ito]

They look good, How many thou.001 max do you grind down on the housing?

What type of CNC/grinder do you guys you use to keep it very consistent...?

ThanksI have no info. on this. Just from personal experience they found a way to provide a better rotor housing to work with..

[RotaryXperiment]

u cracked a plate? you have other issues to worry about Alex..

ya the front plate cracked sux. but wat can i do :icon_no2:

[JustJeff]

ya the front plate cracked sux. but wat can i do :icon_no2:

Do you know what caused the plate to crack? Would suck to put the engine back together without correcting the cause of the problem...and then crack another one.

[RotaryXperiment]

over boost from hose popping off for wastegate.
these housings looked grooved up, might have to send them out. they arent deep enough to get caught by your fingernails but u can feel it when passing fingers over the surface.

[Judge Ito]

over boost from hose popping off for wastegate.
these housings looked grooved up, might have to send them out. they arent deep enough to get caught by your fingernails but u can feel it when passing fingers over the surface.

send them out. and use new apex seals.

[RotaryXperiment]

which seals should i go with ito? and should i replace oil control o rings as well?

here is the housing

[Judge Ito]

which seals should i go with ito? and should i replace oil control o rings as well?

here is the housingAlex, there is a variety of apex seals on the market. do your homework and then purchase some. No more tips for free..:cheers2:

[Judge Ito]

and yes that housing will end up flawless with Goopy's refinishing job.

[Max777]

I really like the look of this, and I think that it's great to finally have an option to machine your housings, my only question is:

Why did this take 20 years, and how come no one figured it out before? Was it lack of precision technology, or what?

[Pete_89T2]

I really like the look of this, and I think that it's great to finally have an option to machine your housings, my only question is:

Why did this take 20 years, and how come no one figured it out before? Was it lack of precision technology, or what?

^I was thinking the same thing. There certainly was a need for this service!

[Gregory Casimir]

hmm i might lookinto this more when i get home

[RotaryXperiment]

got mine done.
here is the before and after. thanx for the great work guys!

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9563&stc=1&d=1295913017

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9564&stc=1d=1295913017

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9565&stc=1d=1295913017

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9566&stc=1d=1295913017

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9567&stc=1d=1295913017

[Judge Ito]

alex, u saved a pair of housings and they look real good. good luck on the build.

[RotaryXperiment]

thanx ito.i appreciate it, goopy did a great job.

[Silver86]

wow... nice results!

depending on how bad the inside of my engine looks... youll be getting my housings.

[diabolical1]

very impressive work ... and for a price that a loser like me can afford.
I really like the look of this, and I think that it's great to finally have an option to machine your housings, my only question is:

Why did this take 20 years, and how come no one figured it out before? Was it lack of precision technology, or what?
i doubt if there is any one reason for why it's taken so long. maybe it's technology. maybe it's changes in attitudes. hell, maybe it hasn't been 20 years - i mean, if Ito got a set to test 3 years ago, then there had to be a period of time where this went from an idea to a part-to-be-tested. either way, it's a long-awaited, welcome option for many of us, and hopefully a stepping stone to even better innovations for this engine that we love so much.

[Ian]

I would say things like this are starting to appear because
-Mazda prices are insane
-they are probable stopping production or already have and there is limited stock.

What needs to be done is recoating/refinishing. All my engines (I have at least 12 housings last time I counted. I thought I had 6 until I move a few boxes. Man 20 years makes stock piling!) have the dreaded corner seal triangle wear or have apex damage. Makes them useless with todays current offerings.

I'm going to drive down to Goopy Performance after my DGRR trip :)

[diabolical1]

well, i figured there wasn't a point in starting a NEW thread just to say the same thing, so ...

i met with Jonathan (Goopy) last Friday and brought him a pair of REW housings that have seen better days. i probably could have used them as they were, but i figured i'd have him resurface them so i could see it all for myself. i need them for a build right now and figured with resurfacing, they could give me a little more time before the engine has to come apart again. the rear housing was a little more beat up than the front, but he checked them out and told me he could get them done by Tuesday. i got a call (registered at around 0900) from him Tuesday morning saying they were complete and i could pick them up.

bottomline ... they came out awesome! they were worth every penny and i would recommend him to anyone in the rotary world. we talked for a bit and i can tell this guys knows his shit! not only that, but he showed me a few ideas that he came up with for all sorts of problems that come about - real, simple, and effective solutions that blew my mind with their simplicity and ingenuity. this guy oozes passion for rotaries and he's friendly (this is coming from a guy that doesn't have many friends and is not too friendly :)).

anyway, long-story, short ... Goopy Performance is truly a breath of fresh air and i will gladly go back in the future whenever needs above my skill-level arise.

1

by the way, i'll try to post some photos of the housings before and after. i will also try to see if i can get some compression numbers when it's running, too. i plan to make a thread for this particular engine build when i get the time, so i may not post them here, but rather maybe a link.

[Judge Ito]

well, i figured there wasn't a point in starting a NEW thread just to say the same thing, so ...

i met with Jonathan (Goopy) last Friday and brought him a pair of REW housings that have seen better days. i probably could have used them as they were, but i figured i'd have him resurface them so i could see it all for myself. i need them for a build right now and figured with resurfacing, they could give me a little more time before the engine has to come apart again. the rear housing was a little more beat up than the front, but he checked them out and told me he could get them done by Tuesday. i got a call (registered at around 0900) from him Tuesday morning saying they were complete and i could pick them up.

bottomline ... they came out awesome! they were worth every penny and i would recommend him to anyone in the rotary world. we talked for a bit and i can tell this guys knows his shit! not only that, but he showed me a few ideas that he came up with for all sorts of problems that come about - real, simple, and effective solutions that blew my mind with their simplicity and ingenuity. this guy oozes passion for rotaries and he's friendly (this is coming from a guy that doesn't have many friends and is not too friendly :)).

anyway, long-story, short ... Goopy Performance is truly a breath of fresh air and i will gladly go back in the future whenever needs above my skill-level arise.

1

by the way, i'll try to post some photos of the housings before and after. i will also try to see if i can get some compression numbers when it's running, too. i plan to make a thread for this particular engine build when i get the time, so i may not post them here, but rather maybe a link.glad it worked out for u. jon does have a passion for this engine we all have come to respect. I'll be releasing some information soon that will benefit everybody.

[Rotary Inspired]

:icon_tup:

Work w/ Jon is nothing short of a great experience. I recommend him. Thanks agian Jon.

[Judge Ito]

I just dynoed my nephews turbo II using Goopy's refinishing job. this is a series 4 engine. 8.5 to comp. on rotors. Rx7 made 400rwhp@ 15lbs of boost. goal is 22 psi of boost but the car would not hold boost. leakin boost all over. engine still pulls 14.9 inches of vacuum. this car is an underdog to say the least and still made respectable power for 15lbs. we will fix the boost leak and go back to the dyno.

[Judge Ito]

I just did a 12A bridgeport for a daily driven Mazda B2200 pickup. using Goopy's refinished rotor housings with apex seals. I wanted to do a compression test as close to real numbers as possible. I did not lube the side housings with oil and I did not lube the rotor housings with oil. basically a dry build and dry test. I did not want the lube oil to add to compression numbers. engine made 125psi equally on both front and rear rotor. enjoy the pics..

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/12a-1.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/12aII.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/dialindicator.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/compression.jpg

[RotaryXperiment]

great stuff ito!

[Judge Ito]

engine fired up with half a crank. i'll have a video up soon.. brap,brap,brap.. sounds pretty healthy this 12A..


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/truck.jpg

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/12Ainsidetruck.jpg

[Jwteknix]

sweet ride

[Judge Ito]

i'm getting alot of pm's on what apex seals I used on the 12A build. I used Goopy Apex Seals..

[diabolical1]

saw this truck in person yesterday. i can attest to how healthy it sounds. really bad ass! :)

[RotaryXperiment]

got 100 psi compression on both rotors before startup. goopy apex seals and refurbed housings.

[Judge Ito]

just did another engine with this refinishing job. this engine is my 3rd kid Sierra's series 5 turbo II. you could follow her build on our facebook page. search for ARP Shop.. front rotor was at 140psi and rear rotor was at 139-ish psi. this was on a cold crank and about 250 rpm cranking speed.