My ongoing project car

[N.RotaryTech]

All right, this month I'm redoing my HBP engine.
I'm actually going to tear down both motors I have and build up one good one.

First off is the original S5 NA motor that was in this car.
Some history about this motor:
I did a rebuild on this motor back in 2005 with the help of a builder. I did this cause I was totally new to rotaries. I wont mention or bad mouth the builder cause he kinda taught me what I know about doing rebuilds.
This motor ran really well till I swapped in the S4 bridge-port.
Ive put about 55k miles on this motor.
It drank a 1/4 qt of oil every 1500 miles it seemed.
I had it dynoed once, and it only made 131rwhp.
I raced a stock na subaru impreza wagon once and was even.
Toward the end of the last few thousand miles I put on this motor, I revved the hell out of it and I bounced it off the rev limiter a couple of times.

Well today I tore it down, and this is what I found.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0001-1.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0002-2.jpg

If you look carefully, you'll notice that there are no corner seal plugs in this side of the rotor!?
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0003-2.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0008-3.jpg

All the other corner seal plugs have been located. So 3 were not installed.

Build up of ? junk.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0007.jpg

The porting on the center iron.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0010-4.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0011-4.jpg

Im going to use this center iron and the stationary gears from this motor cause the bearings look better than the ones in the S4 motor.

That's it for today.

[NoDOHC]

The ports are shiny, the rotors look to be ok (you will need to check clearance to be sure).

I don't like the shape of that port. This design is giving up significant low end without making any improvements in the high end because that port has about a 15 degree later port close, but it is at such an awkward angle that it will not help chamber charging at high speeds.

For what it is worth, I made 138 WHp on a bone-stock s4 6-port block, factory ECU, modified AFM (lean the mix up a little) and stock exhaust. Stock intake manifold too. This doesn't bode well for the porting on your engine that made 14 Hp more stock than mine. (What I am thinking is that the port design is actually hurting your power.)

If I were you, I would start with a new stock center plate and port it yourself.

Otherwise, it looks like you got an excellent starting point.

[RETed]

Ports are...OK.
They are not the best, but I've seen a lot worse...

There are some builders who refuse to use the stock corner seal plugs.
So those will tell you it isn't a big deal yours are missing.
It's weird that only one side is missing...
hmmm

Gunk in the water passages are normal.
Never did a coolant flush recently, right?
It's aluminum oxide from galvanization of the rotor housings from dissimilar metals and an electrolyte (i.e. the coolant).
You can't really prevent it; you just gotta deal with it.
This is why coolant system flushing is recommended as maintenance.


-Ted

[t_g_farrell]

My stock port 12A makes 134 rwhp, so its a good thing you swapped in that
bridge port later.

Looks like a fun project.

[N.RotaryTech]

I don't like the shape of that port. This design is giving up significant low end without making any improvements in the high end because that port has about a 15 degree later port close, but it is at such an awkward angle that it will not help chamber charging at high speeds.
Nice text-book reply.

For what it is worth, I made 138 WHp on a bone-stock s4 6-port block, factory ECU, modified AFM (lean the mix up a little) and stock exhaust. Stock intake manifold too. This doesn't bode well for the porting on your engine that made 14 Hp more stock than mine. (What I am thinking is that the port design is actually hurting your power.)
Nice.
I suppose that this porting might be hurting the performance.

Let me just say this: with the S5 motor I had in there, It pulled from 3.5k-6.5k rpm but just runs out right at 7k.
Redlines at 8k. Buzzer at 8500. Rev limiter at 9k.

With the HBP motor I have in there, it really opens up around 5.5k rpm and wants to keep going at 7k rpm. But some of the last times I drove it, it bogs down after 7k rpm, probably for some reason being with the stock ecu.

I just know there was and is a big difference in performance with this HBP motor compared with the S5 motor. I can feel it.

I love this HBP motor and wouldn't go back.

Now for the decision of if I should stick with the stock port center iron that's in the HBP motor, or if I should swap with this ported S5 center iron.
It would probably depend on the whole debate of if ported center irons increase or decrease power, etc.
Stock ported center irons would probably be better, but I'm going with the ported iron just to see what happens.
Ive already experienced the stock center iron with this HBP motor.
Why not see what its like with a ported center iron.
This is a bridge ported motor, so I'm not really too concerned with the low-end performance anyway.

Anyway this is what the end irons already look like.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0019.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0026-1.jpg

With this rebuild I'm just going to clean up the ports.
But mainly this rebuild is about putting new o-rings and gaskets in.

[jerd_hambone]

Is that a gouge in the face of that last plate?

[N.RotaryTech]

ha ha, yep.
That's a mistake I made the 1st time I ported it years ago.
I don't think it affects any thing major.
Maybe some carbon will build up there.
Look at it this way, Its an experiment to see how gouges in the surface of an iron effect performance / longevity of a rotary motor. :D

[jerd_hambone]

Hahaha and clean them ports up man!

[WE3RX7]

Those ports are U-G-L-Y.... I wanna see how they clean up when you're done.

[N.RotaryTech]

I got the engine out of the car this morning. Only took 4 hours.

Next:
Take engine apart.
Clean parts & do a little port work.
Check out rotors and compare them.
Get every thing ready to be put back together.

Gasket kit should be arriving Wednesday, so it will be going back together after that day.

[N.RotaryTech]

So I just took off all the things attached to the block, (manifolds, omp & lines, water-pump, etc.)

Well after I took the exhaust manifold off I looked into the ports and saw a puddle of coolant in the front rotor chamber. Confirms bad coolant seals, or reused ones, lol.

That's all I have to report.

[NoDOHC]

Wow! I didn't see the secondary ports when I made my comment. The way you have opened up the secondaries, that later closing on the primaries won't make any difference. You might as well leave it alone (what is the point of closing the primaries when the secondaries are still open).

I thought this was more of a daily driver, my apologies (I should have seen the HBP in the title - I thought this was a ported S5 NA).

Good luck with the build.

Get some dyno numbers, I would be curious if you can get 200WHp out of this build.

[N.RotaryTech]

If anyone is confused,
I have two motors,
one is a street-ported S5 na, mainly the primaries are ported.
the other is my Bridge-ported S4 na, mainly the secondaries are ported.

Im planing to use the S5 center plate in the S4 engine.
I also plan to use the 9.7 compression rotors from the S5 engine, if that's what they are.
Also plan to use the stationary gears from the S5 engine because there in better condition. And will probably use the oil pump too.

This afternoon I'm going to take apart the S4 bridge-port motor.


Dyno & performance?
When I ran this HBP engine before, according to my butt-dyno I could spin the tires around the top of 1st and cherp 2nd, this is with an open diff.
Im going to swap in a LSD along with this build.
I heard from someone, that with an LSD if you can spin or cherp the tires, you might have around 200hp.

With this build, this time around, its not really all about the porting or the center plate and its porting.
Its first about replacing the O-rings and gaskets with new ones, second its about the porting.


Any other bits of info are...
I'm thinking about...
Going with the S4 intake manifolds.
And stock ecu for now.
Getting a exhaust header.
Going with out power steering, taking the bracket and pump out, since the original pump went bad.
And thinking of aux oil injection.


Peace.

[WE3RX7]

A HBP w/ S4 manifolds and stock ecu? What's the point? If you have the S5 manifolds, why don't you want to use them? Also... I highly recommend an aftermarket ECU or at least a retuned stock one. The stock ECU doesn't perform well with a BP motor.

Of course, you can run the engine and putt around until you get that ECU squared away, but it's kinda like having a super model girlfriend who's still "saving herself".... :)

Good luck with the build.

[N.RotaryTech]

Stock ecu is just temporary.

S4 intake manifold is just simple. I don't want to mess with the vdi.
Sure, I've heard that you get an additional 5-10-15 HP with the S5 vdi, but is that with it still functional? Or can you get away with it wired open?
The S4 manifold eliminates that uncertainty. lol.

[RETed]

I heard from someone, that with an LSD if you can spin or cherp the tires, you might have around 200hp.


Can you please tell us who this person is so that I can take a baseball bat to his head...


-Ted

[N.RotaryTech]

Maybe they were talking about a turbo?
Maybe I heard wrong.
Anyway I'm going to see if it can be done. :)

[N.RotaryTech]

Classic. Rebuild has come to a fork in the road.

I just tore down the bridge ported S4 engine.

The front iron of the bridge ported motor has a coolant-seal-tract to coolant-passageway break / rust through.

What should I do about this?

As far as staying with the bridge port way, I'm thinking either,
A: block up that coolant passageway and just run with it that way, or,
B: take the other stock front plate I have and bridge port it the same as the other plate.

But I'm thinking of totally reconsidering the entire build. Maybe go a different way. I have my reasons.

[NoDOHC]

What other way are you referring to? P-port or a simple street port?

[N.RotaryTech]

Well I've decided what I'm going to do, and its not going to be bridge ported.
So that kinda defeats the title of this thread.

But I will post up a little more of what I found with the original S5 motor, as a kinda proof of a build to judge upon.

[N.RotaryTech]

The end irons.
It looks like they were ported mostly outward. The aux ports look a little different from each other.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0012-3.jpg

The plastic is a crappy template I made a few years ago to resemble stock ports.
You can see the difference.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0016-1.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0010-5.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0019-1.jpg

I found a very slight wear on the ends of the side seals. And found very slight wear on the top edges of the ports. Maybe that porting caused this?

Anyway, I'm going to slightly bevel those ports.

I also found spots on the rotor that were really clean, instead of having the oil and carbon residue. These spots are on the sides and on the faces of each rotor.
Kinda find that weird.

BTW: This motor only has 55k miles on it since its first rebuild.

[NoDOHC]

Nice conservative porting, I like. I am guessing that you have figured out how far you can go out without losing a side seal.

What do you intend to do with the intake manifold? I think you will find your biggest power gains from modifying the manifold. I don't know if you intend to keep the stock ECU or not.

Do you have a dyno curve from the HBP?

EDIT; By the way, my bone stock 6-port in complete stock trim (146 Hp) would squack the tires going into second. The tire squacking is mostly due to engine inertia, not power.

The 4-port will light the tires up from standing on the gas (between 2,500 and 4,500 RPM in first gear) while traveling in a straight line on dry pavement. It is making about 200 WHp. I have 245/40/R17s on it. A 6-port will probably never do that because it can't make the torque (Ports close way too late). You will probably have more high end than I have though (less torque X higher RPM = same horsepower).

[N.RotaryTech]

I didn't port those ports.
Not yet anyway.

Imo, the lower ports look fine, but the aux ports are uneven, a little shloppy.

I looks like the corner seals might be about 1/3rd supported.


The bridge port motor.
I'm thinking I'm not just going to forget that motor.
I have a plan to sometime, put it back together, reusing the o-rings and other seals, and block off that one coolant passageway, then do an engine swap, maybe for just a few weeks, run it, take it for a mtn run, and get it dynoed, then swap the good motor back in.
Cause I still like that motor.


But for now, Im going with this street port motor.

[rotarykev]

:hurray:waiting for the finish ,great start!!!

[N.RotaryTech]

Ok this is a classic question but, when I was cleaning the rotors, I lost track of which was the front and which was the rear rotor.
They are S4 n/a rotors.
So does it matter?
Is there anyway to tell which is the front and rear?
What should I do?

Usually I'm pretty careful to keep track of them, but not this time, oops.

[sen2two]

It dosnt really matter. Just look at the letters on the rotor, as long as they are within one letter of eachother, up or down, then your good. And if these are the original rotors you were already using. Your good to go.

[diabolical1]

like he said, front and rear and interchangable. carry on.

[N.RotaryTech]

Cool, thats what I thought too, thanks.

Here's one for ya...
When I was going through the rotors, I decided to use some of the comp. seals from the S5 rotors, cause they had less mileage on them. I used the side seals and corner seals.
The question is, does it matter if I lost track of the exact place that each seal went on the rotor?
Imo, this used to be a big no-no. And I did used to keep track of them in previous builds.
This time I purposely lost track of where they go, I found it easier to just take em off and put em on.
Imo, it might matter in the case of the side seals and corner seals, since the side seals have been trimmed to fit.
So in my case, when I put it back together, I guess will it be a "best clearance" issue with each side to corner seal.

What do you think about this?

[diabolical1]

i usually draw diagrams of each rotor when i disassemble an engine. it helps me keep track of things: front, rear and the positions of all the seal. then i put the seals in place on the drawing, clean them one at a time and replace them to the drawing.

that said, at the end of the day, clearances are what matter, so if they're all mixed up, there's nothing you can do about it now but to sit and measure everything, then keep track of it all until assembly. at least that's what i'd do.

[NoDOHC]

Actually, on high mileage engines, the triangle-shaped part of the apex seal will wear into the rotor. I had good success with switching rotors, as that allowed the triangle an un-worn part of the groove to seal in.

I don't know if that was better or worse, but it worked.

Make sure that you get the three piece seals in correctly. The triangle piece should always touch the rear plate for the rotor (towards the back of the engine). The reason that I am telling you this is that I wore a housing out prematurely (significant wear in 350 miles) using a backwards-installed 3-piece seal. It doesn't matter with the 2-piece seals.

As said before, as long as the seal fit in the groove within the tolerance, you should be Ok.

[RETed]

You can sometimes tell on subtle wear on the rotor gear and apex seal groove area.
The rotor spins only one way, so those areas wear a certain way.

If you never brushed off the carbon, it's more obvious from the carbon patches.
This is true of the side seal area by the tips, cause of reversion going in and out of the intake ports.


-Ted

[N.RotaryTech]

Everything's fairly clean and ready to go back together.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0003-3.jpg

[N.RotaryTech]

So I want to go with the S4 manifolds.
I took em apart and cleaned them this afternoon.
This is what I found inside.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0004-1.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0007-1.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0009-2.jpg

This is a manifold that was in my gray rx7, I only drove it around for 10 miles.
The car had been sitting in a junk yard for 3 years before I got it.

It freaks me out that I dove it with the manifolds in that condition.

[rotarycrazy]

to get all of that stuff out go and get some gasket remover form advance it comes in a spray can make sure you wear some gloves using it shit burns like hell but takes all that carbon out of there.

[N.RotaryTech]

So after weeks of not touching the engine because of Christmas vaca and then a week of being sick, I finally got back to it this week.

Engine is all back together and actually sitting in the engine bay.

Whats next is a whole bunch of little things I've got to get together.

Not much pictures taken yet. Seems Im more concerned with it going back together around this time of the rebuild process. But ill try to get some.

[N.RotaryTech]

So the engine is all back together with manifolds and such. Just need to charge the battery.
It should be running by the end of today.
Some pix of some things I did coming soon.

[N.RotaryTech]

Alright. Some pictures.

Engine bay as it is for now.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0001-2.jpg
Old Miata batt on the charger.
In front of that, power steering lines simply joined together.
Around the same area, Oil temp cable loosely in engine bay.
Near fire wall, a clear hose going from the BAC valve to the intake pipe. (Might redo that sometime.)
Next to the air filter, the S5 OMP set aside but still hooked up to its wires so it don't throw a code. Using a S4 OMP instead.

Secondary throttle plates removed.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0004-2.jpg

The new oil filter pedestal I won at DGRR'09.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0005-2.jpg

Oil temp cable and where it leads to.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0008-4.jpg

Gauges I bought from advanced auto parts years ago, with light switch.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0010-7.jpg

[N.RotaryTech]

So its basically an S4 na engine with street ported S5 end irons and S5 throttle body in a S5 RX7.

Nothing really special in the motor, just FD corner seal springs, and the apex seals are RA classics. That besides the porting in which I added chamfer edges to all the ports.

[N.RotaryTech]

It Lives!!
Got it running around noon.

I have a few bugs to work out.
Like the oil pressure line leaks at both ends.
A coolant hose on the TB was leaking, its now fixed.
I redid the clear hose for the BAC with better hoses.

I installed a new lawn mower battery.

I need to run wires for the volt gauge.
Need to install the charger/cigarette lighter.
Need to relocate & install air/fuel ratio gauge.
And the list goes on.

[N.RotaryTech]

Like the oil pressure line leaks at both ends.
I need to run wires for the volt gauge.
Need to install the charger/cigarette lighter.

Fixed.
Done.
& Done.

[NoDOHC]

Cool! it looks like it might be warmer in SC than it is here. I can't seem to convince my legs to walk to the garage. (It's too cold in there to finish a wire loom).

It's looking good, will you be able to take it for a spin soon?

[N.RotaryTech]

Yep, soon.

Look what I made.
A small electric distribution piece with a fuel-cut switch on the side.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0001-3.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0006-2.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0004-3.jpg

This is the piece that is located right under the steering column.

I'm going to use this to power some of my extra gauges.

[N.RotaryTech]

So its pretty much all back together.
I'm going to take it for a spin this afternoon.


There is a few issues I'm having.

I've got to replace the clutch hydraulic hose, its leaking.

The mechanical oil pressure line is still leaking at the connections after I put epoxy where the line comes out, I also sealed up the threads of the connections, all that and both ends are dripping, slowly though.

Not sure what else to do about this. When I made the connections I flared out the ends of the plastic line with a tip of a pen actually. Then, on the line connection going to the guage I put sealing tape on the threads On the other end I put RTV on the threads. Then I put epoxy on the holes where the line comes out.


Ive also have yet to figure out what to do about the resistors I put inline with the secondary injector wiring when I did the bridge-port.
I took out the 550's I had in there for the bridge-port, and put back the originals for this motor.
I think I'm going to see where I'm at with A/F ratio, then decide if they need to be taken out. I might be able to run it a little leaner than factory.

[N.RotaryTech]

So I've put 18 miles on it.
It was running too lean up top, in the 15s.
So I took the resistors out, now the afrs are good, but really rich around 7k rpms.

Ive also found out that my heater core has been leaking, the carpet on both sides of the tranny tunnel are wet/damp with coolant.

It drives real smooth, though I feel its a little less powerful than the HBP motor.

[NoDOHC]

What do you consider good for AFR?

You should be shooting for 13.0 to 13.5:1 on Gasoline. If you run much rich of that, you are wasting fuel and leaving power on the table.

What are you running for ignition timing?

You should not need 550 cc/min injectors. If you do, you either have a fuel pressure problem, have hit on some amazing porting that flows exceptionally well, or are running excessively rich.

I was at 63% Duty Cycle with 216 WHp on 460 cc/min injectors. Unless you are making 250+ WHp, the 460cc/min are plenty.

Lets get a feeling for torque, if you floor the throttle in first gear with the engine at 2500-3000 RPM - will the tires spin? If you floor it at 7,000 RPM, will the tires spin? Where does it feel like it pulls the hardest? My 6-port made peak torque about 7500 rpm. If you are running excessively rich there, you are probably killing your sweet spot.

I would expect that engine to be capable of spinning all season 205/60 R15s on a throttle transition between 6,000 RPM and 7,500 RPM.

Ignition Timing should be around 30 degrees BTDC Above 3,500 RPM.

[N.RotaryTech]

Haven't really yet driven this car to get a feel for its power & torque, I don't really expect much since its a mild ported S4 NA.

I did get the oil leak fixed, kind of, its still leaking a little where the other plug is in the oil filter pedestal. Probably just needs some sealant.

Updated Engine picture.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0005-3.jpg

And how its going to look for now until the next cosmetic change.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0009-5.jpg
I made a hood scoop block off plate. Its a little rough. I'm not using the scoop anyway, and this should keep most of the rain out.

[N.RotaryTech]

Engine specs.
As of now. Nothing really special.
Its basically an S4 NA. 9.4 comp rotors, S4 intake manifolds.
Apex seals are RA Classics. Also has FD corner seal springs.
Porting: End plates have been street ported. Mild?
Housings have had the NA diffusers grinded out. And ports have been mildly ported.
Exhaust has RB mufflers and pre-silencer.
Clutch is a Clutch Masters stage 2.
Air filter is an Advanced Auto Parts store bought cone style.
Radiator is a no-name brand from an online discount parts store.
Lawn mower battery from walmart.

It still has all the original S5 electronics.

It has had the following components removed for various reasons.
Emissions equip. Rats nest, air pump, etc.
All the AC components.
Power steering pump. And bracket.
2ndary throttle plates.
Aux port sleeves and actuating rods.
And a bunch of other misc. parts from the engine bay. Like sub-zero start tank, washer fluid tank, etc, etc.

[N.RotaryTech]

So the 7 has been down for upgrades since 10 days ago, I'm not going to post about it yet as not to jinx it.
But I will show a little something on the side from the main project.
This:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0120.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0121.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0122.jpg

I decided to try out Fiberglass work for the first time, and repair an old under-tray.
The works a little messy, but I can handle it.
And I know it looks like crap.
I followed the directions from the can, and used about 4 squares of fiberglass.

That's it for now.

[ChaserAero]

If it works, it works.

[djmtsu]

Not like anyone sees it.

I say good job.

[N.RotaryTech]

Well after a month of working on it, I got it started last night, and took it for a drive at noon today.
I still have a few bugs to work out, like an exhaust leak an such.

That's it for now.

[N.RotaryTech]

Alrighty, I'm so excited about this.
Here's what I've done,
Last year sometime I acquired a Turbo setup for cheap. Turbo, manifold, downpipe, intercooler, and some elbows, included.
I finally got to doing the project a month ago.
Finished it a few days ago.

Pictures and details coming very soon.


I am taking it to DGRR and the Mitty.
I think from where I'm coming from, when I get back home, Ill have around 1000 extra miles on it.
This is going to be one heck of a break-in. lol.

[N.RotaryTech]

Ok, continuing what my previous post says about this turbo set up, let me get the pictures & details rolling.

Some picture sets might not be clear of the progression of things, I was more concentrating on building this project, but I think you'll get it.

First the turbo setup I acquired.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0005-4.jpg
(Post downpipe modification.)

I started modifying the down pipe cause it was too long as to fit in between my RB silencer and the turbo.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0001-2.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0002-4.jpg

As i took off the RB silencer the studs got fubared.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0003-4.jpg
I ended up shortening the totally stripped stud, and cut away a thread or two of the other stud, cause the fastener I used was hanging up.

This is what it looks like now.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0026-2.jpg
I took it to a local car repair service center to get it welded together.
Added the extra O2 sensor bung later.

Future plan for this downpipe is to sand it down and cover it with hi-temp paint.

[N.RotaryTech]

Next, I fabricated the intercooler mounting.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0010-8.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0008-6.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0009-6.jpg

I didn't even have to move the overflow tank or the horn. I did reroute the coolant tubing though.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0011-7.jpg

I painted it black.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0028.jpg

[N.RotaryTech]

Changing the fittings on the turbo.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_00014.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0015.jpg

This is what i used for the oil feed line for the turbo. Parts from the plumbing section at Lowes. They are for Faucets.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0016-2.jpg

Here I fabricated some heat shielding for the turbo.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0012-5.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0013-1.jpg

[N.RotaryTech]

Intercooler piping. I used exhaust tubing from o'reilly auto parts.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0023.jpg

Painted.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0027.jpg

I modified an intake pipe from a Subaru Impreza and used it for the intake pipe for the turbo. I cut a lot of things off of it to fit and used epoxy to fill the holes and seams.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0017.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0018-1.jpg

I cut apart my old cone air filter to make a filter element for the MAF sensor. A normal size filter wouldn't fit in the engine bay.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0021-1.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0022.jpg

I installed 750cc injectors in the secondary's and rewired the connectors from S5 to S4.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0025-1.jpg

Parts, gaskets, etc.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0024.jpg

[N.RotaryTech]

Kind of tight on the passenger side of the engine bay, but this is how things look.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0038.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0029-1.jpg

I drilled a hole next to the radiator. Blitz BOV I traded some parts for. Used some clear tubing I had around instead of normal vac tubing which I didn't have.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0030-1.jpg

The sun was killing this shot, but shows the IC piping.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0031.jpg

The Subaru Impreza intake pipe installed.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0036-1.jpg

I used an S4 turbo MAF sensor, changed the connector wiring, and have a piece of filter clamped on.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0035-1.jpg

View from above the turbo. One of the heat shields, Oil and coolant lines installed. Also one of my attempts to fix an exhaust leak. I still have a leak.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0037.jpg

Oil feed line and source.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0032.jpg

Oil return.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0033.jpg

Oil temp source via T fitting.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0034.jpg

[N.RotaryTech]

And boost gauge, with a switch for the gauge light.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0039.jpg

[N.RotaryTech]

The turbo is a Turbonetics T3/T4 series, I forgot the specs, I wrote them down someplace, have to find that.

It has an external wastegate that apparently came with a 10 pound spring in it.

720cc (not 750cc as I posted before) injectors in the secondarys, with 6 ohm resistors installed inline with the wiring to them, actually located next to the ECU under the carpet.

Stock Turbo AFM.

Stock TII intercooler.

Blitz BOV.

The engine is the same as I posted before. S4, 9.4 comp rotors, mild porting on the housings and end-plates.


And for the best part...

All this runs on the stock S5 NA ECU!


It will boost up to 10psi, but runs really lean up in that range.
Around 5psi AFR's are perfect though. 11's and 12's

Ive taken it for a drive / boosting just a handful of times.
But found out last night after a drive that my Nopi stage 2 carbon kevlar clutch filled the engine bay with burnt/slipped clutch smell.
So I might have to replace it after DGRR'11

I also found that the turbo's oil seals are bad, leaking through the exhaust and leaking externally.

So with all this, I'm expecting a possible clutch, turbo & engine rebuild after DGRR'11. :lol:

[My5ABaby]

Any concern with those oil hoses not being made to withstand petroleum/heat?

[N.RotaryTech]

I figured they handle some heat & pressure from what they're originally designed for.
I don't know how it will handle oil though.

I'm definitely putting its durability to the test. :D

[djmtsu]

I'm wondering if that oil feed line is TOO big for the turbo.

You might be feeding it too much oil, thus making the turbo smoke. You know the stock turbo line has a restriction pill, and many aftermarket turbos also require some kind of restriction.

Just a thought.

[N.RotaryTech]

Ive taken it for few long drives today.
Just this past hour I was really boosting it in all gears except 5th.
Because I have a 10lbs spring I had to vari the throttle, keep boost around 5-6psi.
Things are holding up so far.
As far as oil temps go, Ive seen up to 195*F.

One issue is, even though I'm able to floor it in 1st gear, it bogs down with fuel after 6k rpms.
Ive discovered this might be something having to do with the stock ECU and its fuel map.
My half bridge port motor did this too, it would bog down after 7k rpms.
So I guess a standalone would fix those problems.

Picture from today.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/MyGTU.jpg

[N.RotaryTech]

3 days till I leave for DGRR'11.

Sunday I developed a tire problem with the bead not sealing.
A couple days ago I swapped 3 tires with used ones I had. One of them has the bead sealing problem.
I'm getting those swapped again with two more tires I have. Hopefully that will take care of my tires.

Next, Im thinking of swapping in a Tii fuel pump. I think that will solve my lean issues at higher boost (6-10psi). But first Ive got to find it in a garage full of parts.

[N.RotaryTech]

So I haven't found the fuel pump, I'm just going with what its got.
The 7 is all ready to go to DGRR, just need to fill up the tank w/premium, will do tomorrow.

I'm going to post the starting mileage of this adventure, to see how much the whole trip comes to.

[t_g_farrell]

See you at the mitty sunday.

Keep between the lines and right side up until then.

[N.RotaryTech]

^haha, good advice.

So the odometer reads 200,855 miles at the start of this trip.

I probably won't be back posting till after DGRR.

[N.RotaryTech]

So the 7 made it up there, then to the Mitty, and back home with no major problems.
Odometer reads: 202,095 miles, so that's 1,240 miles total trip.

While up there, I did replace the vac hose going from the turbo to the wastegate with a SS braided hose from advanced. The previous vac hoes was melting due to the exhaust leak.

My oil temps while boosting on the dragon, one time went to 230F, then another time went to 248F.
So while boosting on the dragon, oil temps ranged from 220F - 250F. All other times oil temps ranged under 200F.

My gas mileage was 19mpg w/o boost, and 15mpg w/boost.


I had a blast up there. It was a breeze getting up those hills with boost.

[N.RotaryTech]

So my Lowes faucet lines that feed oil to my turbo have been replaced with fuel hose for now.
Because the faucet line on the turbo side was leaking fairly bad. I thought it was a loose connection but instead the line wore out.
Hopefully the fuel line will last more than a 1k miles.

Also my Blits BOV became stuck closed recently.
I took it off, sprayed it with PB blaster and wd40 took a hammer and socket to the piston, and got it to work again.
Guess I need to oil it every once in a while.

[mazda244]

looks great good luck

[N.RotaryTech]

Alright, time for an update.

So the turbo that I got for this car was cheap and used, and its been smoking blue smoke ever since I put it on.
Around the beginning of October I decided to start fixing the turbo.
From being lazy and stuff, the car has sat for a month in the garage.
But I finally got the turbo rebuilt, and yesterday I finished putting the car all back together.

I start it up, back out of the garage, and the car starts smoking like crazy.
White smoke billowing out of the exhaust pipes.
Shut it down after it warms up, check things out, nothing leaks, all good.
Start it up again, drive around the block, smoke screen all the way, get back, shut it down again.
Stare at the car with disappointed face, thinking, got to be the coolant seals.
Start it up again (btw, starting is like normal every time) take it for a longer drive down the interstate to brothers house.
Right after the drive there are bubbles in the overflow tank and its been drained a little bit.
A little while later uncap the thermostat pressure cap, no bubbles.
Also took off the pipe to the turbo inlet, no residue of oil or anything.
Anyway drive back a little after midnight, so I don't annoy any one with my smoke screen car.
Coolant buzzer starts randomly turning on an off.
About 1/2 way to 3/4 way home, cruising, I see crown vic headlights on my tail, Oh shit, its a cop.
He pulls beside me, I look over with the coolant buzzer going off, I keep driving like nothings wrong, cop backs off and turns around. Whew. :lol:
So I got it back home.

Today I'm going to take off the turbo, get it running NA, see if it still smoking without the turbo.

[N.RotaryTech]

Looks like I screwed up the turbo rebuild. Have to do it again.

[N.RotaryTech]

Here are some pics of what I've been working on.
1st something I'm impressed with.
My front iron on this motor had damage to one of the coolant seal tracts. I asked a local friend if he could repair it by welding it. This is how it turned out.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0029-2.jpg

Fresh painted irons:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0032-1.jpg

Clean! rotors:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0033-1.jpg


More to come.

[N.RotaryTech]

More is here.


I don't think I have any new photos, but these are basically what the ports on this motor look like.

The center iron ports:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0010-4.jpg

The end iron ports:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0026-1.jpg

The exhaust ports: Kind of a before & after.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/DSC_0003_zps991c9686.jpg

So the end irons of this motor are my half bridge-port irons. The front iron died of coolant seal tract failure but was repaired.
The center iron with its port-job was from the original motor.
The rotor housings are from the original motor, but this time ported.
The rotors are 9.7 compression.
Electronics:
Haltech E6K, with 550's secondary's, no MAF.
Full RB exhaust.
N/A.


Been working on this for a few weeks.
Got it started & running today.
Drivable.
Tuning: still in progress.

[N.RotaryTech]

So the half-bridge-port is back in action.

I was just getting bored, so I decided to rebuild the bridge-port motor and swap engines.

Just finished up the break-in tune, so I just need to put the break-in miles on it. Then tune for the "go fast, fun time" of the motor.


This engine is way more drivable at low rpms than when it was running off the stock ecu.
And it doesn't quite sound like a bridge-port, might be because of bigger exhaust ports & RB header. Idk.

[N.RotaryTech]

Ive got a few hundred break-in miles on the motor now.

I found out this morning that the 550's I had in the secondaries weren't enough for this beast. I think somethings actually wrong with them. "Getting on it" you could hear knocking like crazy, but the afrs were good.

So I swapped them with the 720s I had for my turbo.
Jamin adjusted the whole tune for the 720s, now its much better.
But there is still a little knocking when you put it to the floor, afrs around 13's.
So it needs a little more tuning.

[N.RotaryTech]

So I found out what was causing the knocking. It was my secondary coil. Unplugged it. No knocking at all any more. We were able to tune it all the way up to the 8k rev limiter.

[t_g_farrell]

We gonna see you at B3R with this car? I hope so. Good luck.

[N.RotaryTech]

So we've been trying to figure out the issue with the secondary coils.
I tried two extra coils I had.
Swapped in the 1st one, and it still knocks.
Then, swapped in the 2nd coil, and still knocks.
So the problem had to be something with the timing of the secondary coils.
We checked the timming and all the wires to the coils. All checked out but the timming on the secondary coil was a little backwards.
I think there's something screwed up with the ecu.
Anyway I installed another primary coil inplace where the secondary coils go. And hooked them up with the main primary coil, so they fire at the same time, 0-split.
Still need to give them a proper test drive though.


Also over the weekend I discovered a problem.
I was driving it home from a car meet.
I noticed it started idling poorly and it would even die on me (3 times).
I try to rev it up, it would rev slowly.
It had no power.
It sounded like it was running on one rotor.
It was backfiring a lot too.
I thought it blew a seal.
So I was going to just limp it home, but after a few miles the motor came back to life.
Ran fine the rest of the day.
That happened 2 other times over the weekend.
If you just rev it up and hold it around 4k rpm it'll clear up and run like normal.
So I think my front iron coolant-seal-land broke through again.

[N.RotaryTech]

So the coil setup I have now works good. No problems.

Also that weird running issue I had turn out to be fouled spark plugs. I clean em, it runs good.

[N.RotaryTech]

Holy 2 years ago batman!

Sooo Update!

I cant believe this thing still runs! Bwahahahahaha!!!
So about the beginning of the summer 2015 my subaru broke down (timming belt), and I started driving the rx7, DAILY! Yeah!
Ive been avg 14mpg, lol. That's the only drawback.

There has been an issue with the fuel pump wiring, FP would just die on me randomly, I found out it was due to a poor connection at the fuse block, so i bought a new fuse block, will install soon.

I also got rid of the RB mufflers and Y pipe. I got sick of exhaust leaks every so often. So I took an apexi n1 muffler and pipe I had, welded that to the RB presilencer. Now there's only 2 gaskets throughout. Ironically the n1 muffler is louder than the RB mufflers.

[speedjunkie]

Math update: 3 years ago.

LOL

Glad it's still going well for you. Aren't RB mufflers usually quieter than other exhausts, especially the N1?

[FC Zach]

Math update: 3 years ago.

LOL, you said it. . I was thinking the same thing ;)

[N.RotaryTech]

Finally! I got this car dyno'd.

So I think for what I have done to this motor, It should have made more.
My brother touched up the tune on it 2 weeks ago.
To recap, the motor has every port ported, pretty large street port on all the irons including bridge ports on the end irons, I opened up the exhaust ports a little too.
9.7 comp rotors
RB header with pre-silencer, welded to an Apexi N1 muffler
Haltec e6k, 720 sec inj, no maf. I am running all the coils at the same time with no split, for some reason it wont run right with split.
No emissions, no ac, no ps.
Nopi stage 2 carbon kevlar street clutch.

So here it is:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x70/RotaryTech/IMG_0453_1.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/RotaryTech/media/IMG_0453_1.jpg.html)
Black lines are a 4th gear pull, blue is 3rd gear.
Looks like 25hp over stock.
The curves resemble exactly how I describe my butt dyno, nothing under 3k rpm, turns into a animal after 5k rpm.
Might be small animal but still an animal, lol.

[t_g_farrell]

I hate to break it to you, but my little stock 12A will gives yours a run for the money. My 12A dynoed at 134whp before I redid the ignition, switched to a RB SP exhaust and now
have a hogged out nikki. I expect it to be a little higher next time I dyno it and the torque
to be flat across the entire range. That nikki is awesome when its hogged out.

If you BP that 13B shouldn't you be at about 170whp or more?

[TitaniumTT]

Depends on the dyno. I dyno'ed countless IT cars, "stock" S5's and they were almost always between 180-185. There were a few outliers, a helltech e6whatever doing low 170's. Then there was the cream de la rotary, Speed1's ITS car. Stock port (which almost none of the other IT cars were stock ports.... idling @ 1200rpm pulling 15" of vac is NOT a stock port :rofl:) but everything was port matched, I mean EVERYTHING, runners and bowls cleaned up. S5 rotors, clearanced, lightened, and balanced. Meecrowreck whatever.
Can't remember the total advance but L was around .9L and that bitch put down 196 on a dynojet. Left it there overnight and went back the next morning - 196. This can't be right, left it on the dyno till the end of the day and did another pull - 196 all three times.... damn

[N.RotaryTech]

Took the 7 up to sandblast rally to spectate Saturday.
Finally have some hwy mpg #'s
Gets 21 hwy, 13 city.

[speedjunkie]

That's not too bad, not for our cars anyway. I think I get about 19 highway, but that's headed uphill to 6000ft.

[TitaniumTT]

19-20...... stock port 8 or 500hp fc, don't matter lol