help, looking to build a bad a$$ 6-port?

[RX200013B]

I'm looking for help on building a high hp 6-port N/A. all S4 parts. atkin's seals, ran by a haltech e6k. wanting the largest usable rev range. which i know is hard, but alway's wanted. this will be for complete PLAY. drag/auto-x, possible drift.
options

street port vs sec bridge vs full bridge?

s4 n/a vs s4t2 vs complete rew w/adaptor plate at block

aux port will have custom inserts to help ramp the air flow

looking for comments on how someone else would build one
as far as custom intake, help with the design and i will build it!

thanks Scott,(RX200013B)

[NoDOHC]

Your biggest power adder would be a custom intake. I think that the lower part of the factory one could be modified to be passable, but the upper part has to go.

I would recommend not using S4 parts, but S5. The rotors have better compression and are lighter.

What power levels are you looking for?

I have heard of an Aux Port Bridge, which will help the high end appreciably while maintaining some semblance of low end torque (not a bridge port until the sleeves open).

Unfortunately, I have never had the opportunity to build a maximum effort 6-port, but my mildly ported 4-port has 60 WHp and 60Wlb-ft on the best 6-port build I had (Haltech E6X, stock - polished intake manifold, port matched with custom cold air intake - no AFM, stock S4 block), Racing beat headers,

4-port vs. 6-port
216 WHp vs. 155 WHp
160 Wlb-ft vs. 100 Wlb-ft.

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt25/NoDOHC/6-4portComparison.png

Short story is the the 4-port has a lot more potential than the 6-port.

The 4-port loses torque in the high revs because the stock ignition is weak past 6,000 RPM. The charging efficiency on the 6-port is so low that the ignition is plenty for it.

[TehMonkay]

Get some TWM IDA style throttle bodies

You will get a better power band with a 4 port motor too.

[RX200013B]

do not have a 4-port motor.

custom intake? let's talk design?

[NoDOHC]

There are several writeups on intake design.

I think that VEX's is probably the best for illustrations.

Vex's Intake manifold thread (building new) (http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=10228)

Older Intake Manifold Thread (modifying stock) (http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=8550)

Ideation (http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=8537)

Vex's Build Thread (http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=10831)

Thanks for the pointer Vex (I knew I had seen the graphics somewhere).

[vex]

may i suggest my build thread for cfd design iterations

[My5ABaby]

thanks! yes large gains.. regular bridgeports land anywhere in the 200 to 260rwhp.. this semi p-port with a bridgeport landed me 338rwhp using low compression rotors. that picture is a picture of my actual engine on my full tube chassis Rx3-Sp. The way I figure, If I use high comp. rotors and switch over to methanol. I would be well into a 380 to 400rwhp Naturally aspirated...with my semi-bridgeport set-up.. I would ad. revving takes very little effort..im using dual 55mm throttle bodies

im using dual 55mm throttle bodies
If you want N/A power, search for Judge Ito.

[NoDOHC]

Unfortunately, my experience appears to indicate that higher compression rotors do not help the power.

Still, 338 WHp is awesome (probably on a Dynojet, which would make it approximately equivalent to Defined Autoworks' 430WHp 20B).

[RX200013B]

what about using a complete REW intake (w/ 1" adaptor plate)?
half-bridge on the sec ports only?

[NoDOHC]

REW intake does not support 6PI for one thing. For another, I don't think the ports would line up well (never tried it with a 6-port, but I doubt that the ports are in the same location between an REW and a 6-port).

The stock LIM is fixable, it is the UIM that is hopeless. A custom UIM is not impossible, You could use parts from the stock UIM. It takes skill to TIG cast aluminum together and make it look decent, but it can be done. I was going to do that some day, but I seem to find enough to do.

[RX200013B]

the spacer is there to help with mounting and with the flow. as far as the REW mani supporting the 6pi, aux will be left open with a insert to ad in flow.

fair ?, is the REW intake good in any way for N/A performance?

[djmtsu]

I have a question I will interject here.

Has anyone used ditched the turbo's on an REW, and just run it NA?

I would be interested to see what it would do, either with stock rotors, or high compression rotors.

I am going to build another FC soon, and am going back to NA. Only every other car can be boosted ;)

[My5ABaby]

I have a question I will interject here.

Has anyone used ditched the turbo's on an REW, and just run it NA?

I would be interested to see what it would do, either with stock rotors, or high compression rotors.

I am going to build another FC soon, and am going back to NA. Only every other car can be boosted ;)

I'm glad you've decided to get your good taste back and get an FC. :icon_tup:

[NoDOHC]

I have a question I will interject here.

Has anyone used ditched the turbo's on an REW, and just run it NA?

I would be interested to see what it would do, either with stock rotors, or high compression rotors.

I am going to build another FC soon, and am going back to NA. Only every other car can be boosted


I have heard that the RE intake is the best flowing intake for a 4-port.

I knew a guy who put down 202 WHp on a dynojet using an RE intake.

I think that GtoRX7's FC has an NA 13BRE in it at 230 WHp.

I would expect that 215-225 WHp is reasonable to expect NA.


the spacer is there to help with mounting and with the flow. as far as the REW mani supporting the 6pi, aux will be left open with a insert to ad in flow.

fair ?, is the REW intake good in any way for N/A performance?


The intake manifold-to-port matching will be so terrible, I would doubt that you would see any gains from the RE manifold.

I have heard of converting a 6-port to a 4-port by removing all the material between the ports, the sleeve, etc. I think this port would be way too big to make power at any reasonable speed or with the intake runner size that even an RE manifold has.

I am thinking that a custom intake (for the 6-port) with short runners or ITBs is your friend.

[RX200013B]

for ITB's, would 4 38mm throttle be big enough?

for a SP or even a half-bridge?

[RETed]

I have a question I will interject here.

Has anyone used ditched the turbo's on an REW, and just run it NA?

I would be interested to see what it would do, either with stock rotors, or high compression rotors.

We did on Paul Ko's old race FC...
We only got 140 on a DynoJet, but we couldn't rev past 6kRPM due to ignition break-up.


-Ted

[RX200013B]

We did on Paul Ko's old race FC...
We only got 140 on a DynoJet, but we couldn't rev past 6kRPM due to ignition break-up.


-Ted

what were the spec of the motor?

[NoDOHC]

for ITB's, would 4 38mm throttle be big enough?

for a SP or even a half-bridge?


I don't know what manifold you would be using, but I think that 38mm would be a little small for the secondaries (plenty for the primaries).

I saw a couple builds and they both were using 3 48mm TBs, one for the two primary ports and one for each secondary port.

3 44s would probably be sufficient.

This flows about the same as 4 38s, but the flow into the secondary ports is a lot higher than the flow into the primaries and needs the throttle sizing to be correct.