1987 TII build for my son

[jtbshaw]

Well, after such a long time of not posting much about this, and my son didn't want to until now, we are finally showing a thread about the progress of the car.

This all started early 2009 and my 10 year old son (at that time) wanted he and I to build him something for when he turns 16. The 6 year project quickly became a finish as soon as we can. We even attempted to pull off making DGRR 2009, but due to certain difficulties we couldn't. The most contributing factor to the no show for DGRR was that I had to make the difficult decision to close my manufacturing and fabrication business during that time.

That was only the start of one of the most difficult times in our lives. Not only did I have to close, I had to relieve some good people of their jobs, I lost my income, and no job became available for me until November. We home school our kids (3, with #4 on the way as I type this :icon_tup:), but no income made it extremely tough. We drained our investments, savings, everything, etc...to make ends meet. The position that became available required a cross-country move from Alabama to here in South Dakota. We made the move and things have finally gotten back on track, as of May 2010.

All the while, the TII pretty much remained sitting. I should have sold it to help pay for groceries or bills, but I couldn't bring myself to part with it as this was supposed to be something for me and my son to build together. My son remained very understanding and a trooper about the delays.

Fast forward to today...the car is approximately 80% finished with a few big ticket items still left to do. So, without further adieu, here's the progression from start to as she sits today.

February 2009, this is how we get the car (thanks to Phil and Bryan @ BNR). Good foundation to start from with only minor fixes required. Supposedly, the engine has been rebuilt with only about 100 miles on it. Which after as much inspecting as can be done without going inside the engine, it appeared to be a fresh rebuild.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/001-1.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/003-1.jpg

Only rusty spot on the car (I've cut it out and will weld in new metal):

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/0103.jpg

Then we started stripping things and cleaning up the engine bay, prepping for the S5 bumper conversions and S5 mouldings, addition of a factory rear spoiler, etc...

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/0012.jpg

S5 bumpers and factory rear spoiler are on, S4 moulding off and waiting on the newer S5 moulding, S5 tails waiting to go in:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/0052.jpg


New struts, Tanabe lowering springs, new cross drilled and slotted rotors, and EBC green pads at all four corners:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/0312.jpg

RB braided oil lines installed:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/0322.jpg

HID projector lamps in place (still awaiting the ballasts to be wired in), and FMIC mounted in place:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/0302.jpg

Bryan @ BNR hooked me up on a deal with his S5 turbo setup off of his gold TII (with all his goodies in there), semi-solid engine mounts can be seen here, stock flywheel in great shape but going back with a new Stage III clutch (I can't remember the brand right now since it has been over a year):

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/0232.jpg

Then my son and I began discussing really where we would like to see the car heading and the end result. My son wanted some sort of military theme and for the TII to be completely different than most of what you see. Well, I suggested we do something that I am comfortable with and can teach him about something that is sort of fading away like many good things that we have had and is now gone........let's go carb and turbo. He liked the idea so off we went into it like two pioneers. I know certain carbs pretty well, but had no idea of the overall challenge this would ultimately (and still is) putting me through.
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[jtbshaw]

.... to continue on, we still had lots to do. Build the tubing for the FMIC, address the ECU/timing/fueling/etc..., seats (since the car didn't have any), cooling (since the factory radiator showed signs of leakage), and a bunch of other stuff. We decided to ditch the items in the center of the dash, except for the HVAC controls.....no radio or cig light basically. This would provide a convenient place for gauges and switches.

We removed the ECU and engine harness which left me without any fueling or ignition. The fueling wasn't any big deal until the factory tank turned up rusty inside. Since we are going carb, why not just build a custom cell. So I modified a Jeg's 15 gallon aluminum cell to fit in the stock locatiion and allow fillups to be the same as a stock tank. Getting started:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/100_5344.jpg

Finished up tig welding everything, showing the stock fuel sender location, venting in the middle, stock input/vent tube in the stock location, and -10 fuel supply and -8 return line fittings:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/100_5352-1.jpg

Custom oil filler neck that I built to accomadate the FMIC tubing (wait, a distributor on a FC????...more to come on that later):

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/0053.jpg

FMIC tubing built (only a few couplers needed now):

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/ICtubing.jpg

Rotary Shack DCOE blow through carb and plenum installed, and the Fluidyne radiator mounted, and FMIC tubing test fitted:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/0115.jpg

Gilmer drive setup installed:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/0144.jpg

I'll post more as I have discovered many of the pics are not uploaded. More to come soon.................

[TitaniumTT]

FIRST!

Finally the long awaited build thread! Congrats Todd. I had no idea the hardships you went through, sorry to hear about that. I also didn't know your son was that young! You're creating a monster! I got a ride in a Ferrari 348 for my 12th b-day, its been a 20 year addiction since.

Congrats again brotha, she looks like a beaut! Can't wait to see her in 34 days :suspect:

By the way guys, Todd was the inspiration and lead behind my custom fuel cell.

[jtbshaw]

Thanks B. It's been a good build. However, as of lately, this thing has pushed me. I can't seem to get the timing right, no matter what I do. All of my old school tricks are not working, nothing! She'll fire up, but she's not timed right. She sounds sick, but not bad engine kind of sick. It's gotta be something with the DLIDFIS ignition, timing, or both.

Me and another friend that are having similar rotary woes have even mentioned lately of pulling the rotary stuff and going with something reciprocating. Just can't do it though. At this point of having 24 years of working on these engines/cars, I guess it is safe to say rotary for life.

Thanks for the props on the fuel cell. I'm looking forward to seeing those RX8 seats in your FC also.

Back on the build, I took today off from work, relaxed and got some much needed rest, so nothing has been uploaded. I will update the thread soon with more details and photos.

Thanks again, B. I'll see you in about a month. Bring you some warm clothes. We are already seeing 30s at night.

[speedjunkie]

Nice work! Good luck with the rest of the project.

[prrex4ever]

Awesome father/ son project. Looking great, good luck with her.

[jtbshaw]

Thanks speedjunkie and prrex. I will post an update sometime next week. I am travelling for work and I hope this is my last stint out on the road for this year. This 1-2 weeks out of each month is severely slowing the progress. We will get back on it soon. I have updated photos, just have to upload and type out everything. Look for the update soon.

[jtbshaw]

We have been able to confirm that the engine is solid and healthy. We acquired a Mazda digital rotary engine compression tester that shows that the car has a good heart.

After much reading and confirming that our timing is set correctly and the DLIDFIS is firing nicely and correctly, the carb is just not in sync with everything else. Talked to a couple of buddies that are really familiar with the Webers and they gave us some pointers which has improved things. It appears that we have to play around with the jetting now to get everything dialed in.

Other than those things, not much has been done to the car. Still have some wire tucking to do, install most of my gauges, get the interior back together, finish out the exhaust, then a whole bunch of other stuff.

We got her out of the barn for a little while and gave her a bath. We also noticed that I didn't put in the above details that the driver's front fender has been replaced with a new one. But we still have to weld in some replacement metal over the right rear where we cut out the rusted through area. We also changed out the Tial BOV with a old school HKS BOV.

Here's a few pics of how she sits today (mostly). Right after her bath:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/IMG_20100920_184411.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/IMG_20100920_184228.jpg

[TitaniumTT]

NICE!!! I can't wait to see this ride. You'll have to educate me on the ignition system when I get out there.

Would the location of the webers have an effect on them? Meaning if they're meant to be mounted vertically, the float bowls won't work properly....

[jtbshaw]

Absolutely, it does B. If this was a IDA, DCD, etc... it certainly wouldn't perform properly. This is a blow through 45mm DCOE and it is designed to run in the configuration you see above. I just have to play with the jetting and adjustments to dial it in.

There's all sorts of demo and renovation stuff going on at our house, and part of that is in the room I had planned for you to have. I will have somewhere for you to sleep when you get here though.

[Herblenny]

Awesome Build Todd!!! Looking great!

[jtbshaw]

Awesome Build Todd!!! Looking great!

Thanks Phil. Looks a good bit different from the last time you saw it ehh?

[NoDOHC]

I like that alternator belt, it looks like it was meant to run a blower (supercharger).

Cool looking project - What a car to get at 16...

Looking good!

[jtbshaw]

Yep, the good ole Gilmer drive setup. Everytime I build one of these engines, I always ditch the v-belt setups and go with a 6-groove serpentine or a Gilmer drive. It makes an interesting sound. At idle, it sounds like I have a blower on there, rev it up and then the turbo whistle takes over.

The car will be painted OD green with some small things stenciled on the sides and maybe some small decals. The seats have been recovered for some time now in a similar (but softer) material that the old OD green duffle bags used to be. Since my son was about 2, we have called him Elliot Moose, from the children's book. He's a sizable kid (11 years old, 5'-5", and 145lbs, and wears a size 10.5 men's shoe) so the name "Moose" just has kind of stayed with him. Since this is a rotary, I had "Rotary Moose" embroidered into the headrest with a cool moose image I found.

The interior will be free of luxuries, but more function than anything. Just as something military would be. A good bit of carbon fiber will be inside, with several gauges and switches to control and monitor things.

Here's a close-up image of the seats:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/IMG_20100920_184441.jpg

And just a cool shifter knob I picked up for him in summer 2009 to go along with the military theme:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/IMG_20100920_184432.jpg

[TitaniumTT]

Absolutely, it does B. If this was a IDA, DCD, etc... it certainly wouldn't perform properly. This is a blow through 45mm DCOE and it is designed to run in the configuration you see above. I just have to play with the jetting and adjustments to dial it in.

There's all sorts of demo and renovation stuff going on at our house, and part of that is in the room I had planned for you to have. I will have somewhere for you to sleep when you get here though.

That's awesome Todd, thanks so much. Looking forward to it.

And just a cool shifter knob I picked up for him in summer 2009 to go along with the military theme:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/IMG_20100920_184432.jpg

I like how the Moose is looking out the window on both sides, nice little touch.

And that is probably the coolest non-stock shifter I have EVER seen... just awesome Todd

[jtbshaw]

I didn't know if anyone would pick up on that little seat detail. Good eye, B! I found that moose image online (had to pay for it even), then mirrored it, and sent both to the upholsterer in Atlanta. A few weeks later seats were ready.

The place I got the shifter knob from is a hot rod accessory shop. Just a dude and his wife run it. I called up the # and the wife was very friendly and helpful. She helped me get the correct adapter for the stick and got everything 2 days later. She even followed up with a phone call to make sure everything fit several days later. Nice folks.

They even have a luchidor for you B: http://prostores3.carrierzone.com/servlet/hotrodshiftknob_com/-strse-%22Sick-Strings%22-Shift-Knobs/Categories

Just click on the links on the left for all the different shift knobs they have. Plus, I like their slogan: Hot rods don't leak oil, they mark their territory.

[jtbshaw]

No real updates. Thanksgiving is coming soon and I am taking days off so we will get some things completed then.

I ran across this short video that my son put together. I thought it was funny and pretty good. Keep in mind that he is 11 years old.

For some reason, the embbing is not working, so here's a link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUtryeOGNCE

[speedjunkie]

Oh I didn't realize your son was so young. So you guys are starting early huh? That's cool that he's helping you with it at least. I always wished my Dad and I could build a car together.

[jtbshaw]

Yes, we are starting early. When we got the car, he was 10. Everything was drastically sped up when trying to get it going by DGRR '09. Since then, we have been taking it easy and working on it to the stage it is at now. We plan to spend a good bit of time over the Thanksgiving holiday as I am taking some days off.

[TitaniumTT]

I didn't know if anyone would pick up on that little seat detail. Good eye, B! I found that moose image online (had to pay for it even), then mirrored it, and sent both to the upholsterer in Atlanta. A few weeks later seats were ready.

I LOVE little details like that. To me the devils in the details and can make or break a project.... Love it Todd.

The place I got the shifter knob from is a hot rod accessory shop. Just a dude and his wife run it. I called up the # and the wife was very friendly and helpful. She helped me get the correct adapter for the stick and got everything 2 days later. She even followed up with a phone call to make sure everything fit several days later. Nice folks.

They even have a luchidor for you B: http://prostores3.carrierzone.com/servlet/hotrodshiftknob_com/-strse-%22Sick-Strings%22-Shift-Knobs/Categories

Just click on the links on the left for all the different shift knobs they have. Plus, I like their slogan: Hot rods don't leak oil, they mark their territory.

Some of those are just plain BAD ASS! My car is not badass enough for some of those.... the one you got though just screams Don't eff with with!

Yes, we are starting early. When we got the car, he was 10. Everything was drastically sped up when trying to get it going by DGRR '09. Since then, we have been taking it easy and working on it to the stage it is at now. We plan to spend a good bit of time over the Thanksgiving holiday as I am taking some days off.

Nice! Good for you Todd.... I'm taking this week and next week off PRAYING to get my car done..... it's going to be tight that's for sure.

[jtbshaw]

Well, B, it just wouldn't be the same if you didn't have to pull some all nighters and run a tight schedule to finish the car. I hope you do get it finished and stay on schedule. We basically have 4 bedrooms upstairs that we can't use until the contractors get finished up there. It tight but I will have some where that you can get a decent night's rest. I can promise some good food and good times!

[TitaniumTT]

Well, B, it just wouldn't be the same if you didn't have to pull some all nighters and run a tight schedule to finish the car. I hope you do get it finished and stay on schedule. We basically have 4 bedrooms upstairs that we can't use until the contractors get finished up there. It tight but I will have some where that you can get a decent night's rest. I can promise some good food and good times!

:rofl: Yeah.... I do tend to do things like that don't I! I'm calling in some support for the weekend.... We're building the Annex on Saturday then I'm gonna get them back here for Sunday to rock and roll on the car. Worse comes to worst I can buy a set of tires for The Mighty XJ and leave on time but that defeats half the point of the trip.... I'll do my best... still planning on taking the FC though.

As for a decent spot to sleep.... I refer you to this pic :lol:

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9251&stc=1&d=1290026464

Thanks much T, looking forward to getting out there, meeting you and your fam, good food good times sounds great to me! and seeing this bad ride in person of course :biggthumpup:

[jtbshaw]

:lol:

At least those are some comfy seats that I hooked you up with!

[jtbshaw]

Talking about bringing back an old thread....this project started in 2/2009 and now 3/2015 she is nearly complete. There have been many changes since that last post. I will update the thread soon with more details and current pics. I am excited that she is going to the tuner by Wednesday. Look for more soon.

JTB

[GySgtFrank]

These little projects always start out so innocently and just kind of spiral out of control. :lol:

Can't wait to see where you're at with it.

[speedjunkie]

Sweet! Can't wait to see pics!

These little projects always start out so innocently and just kind of spiral out of control. :lol:

Can't wait to see where you're at with it.

SO true. lol

[jtbshaw]

Yeah, my initial budget was $2500 to put into this thing. As usual, I've let this aspect go off the reservation. This project started out going blow through side draft carb/FMIC/DLIDFIS/cheap suspension to back to close to stock then to FD UIM/TB/Haltech E6K to eventually where we are now...FD UIM/TB/Microtech LT8s/PLX wideband/Tokico suspension/Works wheels and a whole bunch of other stuff.

We should be finished up with her this evening so that she is ready to go to the tuner. I'll grab some pics if it is not raining too badly.

JTB

[jtbshaw]

Even though we still have things to do, like paint/wrap/plasti-dip the exterior, some interior work, a few things to change in the engine bay (sensor locations), install the front tires, alignment, etc.... the car is to the point of going to the tuner today for some dyno time and get the Microtech straightened out. She cranks and runs but boy is she heavy in fuel. Hopefully the tuner can dial this in and we can begin driving the car on the street. I did notice, yesterday, as I took a short drive up our street that I am getting some noise from the differential (fresh Royal Purple gear oil back there even) and looks like I will have to swap out her transmission (glad I have a spare).

She's mostly finished, or she's at least to the point that we can begin to enjoy the car after the tuner is finished. We can continue to work on these other items while being able to take her out for an occasional spin.

The day we took her in:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Elliots87RX7TII/001-1.jpg

6 years later and many changes later, this is how she sits today:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Exterior1_zpsw3qigga2.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Exterior_zps2f0crbtx.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Engine%20bay_zpsxa1vgdg1.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e108/jtbshaw/Interior%20-%20passenger_zpsl3is9qlj.jpg

[TitaniumTT]

Even though we still have things to do, like paint/wrap/plasti-dip the exterior, some interior work, a few things to change in the engine bay (sensor locations), install the front tires, alignment, etc.... the car is to the point of going to the tuner today for some dyno time and get the Microtech straightened out. She cranks and runs but boy is she heavy in fuel. Hopefully the tuner can dial this in and we can begin driving the car on the street. I did notice, yesterday, as I took a short drive up our street that I am getting some noise from the differential (fresh Royal Purple gear oil back there even) and looks like I will have to swap out her transmission (glad I have a spare).

She's mostly finished, or she's at least to the point that we can begin to enjoy the car after the tuner is finished. We can continue to work on these other items while being able to take her out for an occasional spin.

The day we took her in:

6 years later and many changes later, this is how she sits today:


TODD!!! How are you my friend!
Damn! She looks a lot different from when I saw... and heard her running on that blow thru sidedraft... that was a really cool setup for sure!

The Royal Purple I hate to say it is probably your problem... I hate that shit.... I'll never use it again... Try some thicker Amsoil or Redline and see what happens... she may quiet down :biggthumpup:

[jtbshaw]

What up Brian? Been a long time my friend. Hope you have been doing well.

After the dyno tuning, I'll swap the fluid again with some Redline, as I have always had good success with that. The transmission is grinding going into second, on either upshift or downshift. Don't make much sense as the TII trannys usually don't have bad 2nd gear issues. I'll swap it and drop some Redline in on the replacement and hope that gets everything settled down and working properly.

[RETed]

After the dyno tuning, I'll swap the fluid again with some Redline, as I have always had good success with that. The transmission is grinding going into second, on either upshift or downshift. Don't make much sense as the TII trannys usually don't have bad 2nd gear issues. I'll swap it and drop some Redline in on the replacement and hope that gets everything settled down and working properly.

IME, the 2nd gear can be a problem...
If you redline shift from 1st to 2nd, the transmission will almost always reward you with a "scratch."
The stock gears ratio from 1st to 2nd is too wide - IMO.
When we used to hit the drag strip, I will "short-shift" from 1st to 2nd and never at redline - I will tend to hit that shift right at 6500RPM and then give it a split second longer just to not wreck the synchro.

Count me in as another disappointed Royal Purple experience...
Changed out my Redline MT-90 for Royal Purple 75W90 trans fluid, and it did not like it.
Too bad, cause David Canitz (dunno if he's still there) was a heavy proponent of Royal Purple stuff back on the big mailing list years ago.
I gotta change back to Redline MT-90... :(


-Ted

[jtbshaw]

It is disappointing about the Royal Purple. The 2nd gear grind is happening at sub 3000 rpm shifts and no load, just a nice easy shift. Even letting the rpms drop to near idle. It doesn't happen every upshift but has happened on any and every downshift.

After the tuner is finished, we can straighten out these issues. Just excited that it is at least drivable right now.