Advice on bodywork for an FC?

[Max777]

Hey guys, as some of you might know, I'm in the process of repainting my FC turbo.... Problem is, There's still a lot of work to be done, and I only got 3 more classes scheduled.

I have a daily, so the FC could be finished during the fall autobody class, but I dont want to wait till winter for it to get done, ya know?

Do you think that using a paint booth to paint your car is absolutely necessary? And, how about baking the car in the paint booth?

Right now, it looks like if I want to get this thing even close to done by the end of the summer, I will need to paint it myself, most likely in my garage.

I already bought the paint and a bunch of supplies too.

So, I guess the question is... should I wait?

I looked into what I need:

$150 compressor (big enough for a paint gun and an ok D/A sander)
$100 paint gun starter kit: comes with 2 guns and everything I need.
$40 el cheapo D/A sander.

Now, that's quite an investment, but I would be able to paint other cars, and finally have an air compressor to work with.

Or, I could wait, and just get it done when classes resume in late august... I dunno, but part of me is telling me: screw it, buy the shit and do it now!

[Rotary#10]

Do you know all the steps involved in painting a car? I do know right off the bat its alot of work? Do you have any previous expericence paint cars? Do you drive your car during the winter time? How clean is your garage ? How clean is the paint booth at school? Baking the paint after its been settled is a good way to speed up the process of drying. Try to weigh out the pros and cons of painting at home in the garage and in the shop at school. I've been waiting almost a year to paint my car too. I have most of the scruffing supplies and base paint. But still needs more money. :banghead: The actual paint and clearcoat at whats going to hurt the most money wise.

[project86]

Painting In Your garage would be fine. Just know that it's probably going to be a dirty paint job compared to If you use the paint booth at your school. Which will probably result in quite a bit of wet sanding. I have a degree in collision repair and refinishing. My advice is ti use the booth if you can, you will be glad you did :).

Also....I doubt you're gonna get a compressor for 150 that will sufficiently power a DA and a gun. I just bought a portable 33gal compressor for my DA and gun. It was $350. DAs use ALOT of air. My compressor barely cuts it and all I'm doing right now is putting some flares on my friends FC. I would hate to do a whole car with the compressor I have. Sanding wise i mean. It should power then gun just fine.

I would say get a 60 gal. That should work just fine. Also about the baking. You only need to bake clearcoat. Base dries quite fast. I learned with BASF Products (Limco,RM,Glasurit). Flash time between coAts with these paints is about 5 to 10 min. Baking the clearcoat is a great way to help it dry. But it's not always necessary. Keep us updated :)

[JerryLH3]

I have a 60 gallon compressor that flows around 10 SCFM @ 90 psi. Before you buy tools or as you buy them, look to see what air delivery they need to keep running effieciently. I don't have a DA sander, but I do have a grinder that my compressor can keep up with no problem. It should definitely be good for a paint gun no problem, as the gun I will be using requires around 13 SCFM @ 30 psi. Compressors that flow that kind of air are often 240V, so be prepared for that too.

This was also a $400 compressor and was the scariest thing I've done in awhile unloading it off of the Home Depot rental truck.

I'm attempting to do all the body work and painting in my garage. It requires a lot of research before you decide to go ahead with it. Just outfitting the garage to this point cost a lot of money - to the tune of nearly $1000 for an air compressor, a 240V outlet, good sanding blocks, paint guns, grinder, respirators, body filler, etc. I haven't even purchased the main ingredient yet - paint, which I priced out at $500 on the extreme low end.

[project86]

^^ Jerry is right. Those are all good things to consider.

[classicauto]

Keep in mind - painting in your garage doesn't mean you're painting in your garage.

It means you' be painting the garage :)
If its not properly sealed up.

Not to mention, in order to keep dust down you'll want the door down. In which case by half way down one side you will no longer be able to see the car. Unlles you have adequate ventilation. You might get away with it on a full HVLP setup, but again I doubt you have a real HVLP gun, or a 13+CFM compressor to power it.

A booth is a tool, an extremely necessary one.

There's alot to a paint job. Wait that's not right at all..........there's alot to a properly done paint job - so don't rush it unless you don't mind if it shows.

[JerryLH3]

You might get away with it on a full HVLP setup, but again I doubt you have a real HVLP gun, or a 13+CFM compressor to power it.



I'm curious what you mean by full HVLP and real HVLP gun. Could you elaborate further? Are you suggesting there's specific guns/brands to stay away from or what?

Thanks.

[project86]

i have noticed a difference in gun quality. I used a SATAjet 3000 for 2 years and then at my old job they only had shit for guns and its different.

[classicauto]

I'm curious what you mean by full HVLP and real HVLP gun. Could you elaborate further? Are you suggesting there's specific guns/brands to stay away from or what?

Thanks.

high volume low pressure.

There's HVLP, compliant, and non-hvlp(old tech).

The point of it is higher transfer effciency, (ie. less overspray!) finer atomization......but they consume alot of air. They work excellent, although honestly if you've not sprayed with each type you wouldn't know the difference you'd just think thats how it is.

But a compliant (decent transfer effciency) or old style gun (shitty transfer effciency), although it will consume less air, will be spraying at a higher pressure and blasting tonnes of paint into the air - and also getting some on the panel :lol:

Full HVLP setup meaning you don't simply buy an HVLP gun and go nuts. You need larger diameter lines and fittings to feed the higher volume into the gun. Also, your compressor *ideally* should be over 20CFM on an HVLP setup.

Brands....meh not so much. They all spray a little different I find its better to fit the gun to your style then the other way around. I've been a devilbiss fan for a while. The anesta Iwata gun's i've been using lately are nice....I do like SATA alot, but hate having to get parts for them, and my style doesn't fit they're pattern as you generally have to be much closer to the panel then I'm comfortable with to get proper transfer.

Going with a non china gun - you go with what fits your style. Going with a cheap thing, well who knows. Chances are two of the same cheapies would spray differently then each other.

[TitaniumTT]

$150 compressor (big enough for a paint gun and an ok D/A sander)
$100 paint gun starter kit: comes with 2 guns and everything I need.
$40 el cheapo D/A sander.

Now, that's quite an investment, but I would be able to paint other cars, and finally have an air compressor to work with.

That's not an investment at all. An investment for those tools would be about $1000 for an air comp, $500 for two spray guns, $200+ for a DA sander. It really sounds like you're on a retardedly tight bugdet and should wait till classes resume. Not to sound like a dick but if you're complaining about spending $150 on a compressor, how are you going to feel spending $40 in plastic, $20 is wood, and $50 on a few decent fans to section off the garage?

Just noticing things here.

I have a 60 gallon compressor that flows around 10 SCFM @ 90 psi. Before you buy tools or as you buy them, look to see what air delivery they need to keep running effieciently. I don't have a DA sander, but I do have a grinder that my compressor can keep up with no problem. It should definitely be good for a paint gun no problem, as the gun I will be using requires around 13 SCFM @ 30 psi. Compressors that flow that kind of air are often 240V, so be prepared for that too.

This was also a $400 compressor and was the scariest thing I've done in awhile unloading it off of the Home Depot rental truck.

I'm attempting to do all the body work and painting in my garage. It requires a lot of research before you decide to go ahead with it. Just outfitting the garage to this point cost a lot of money - to the tune of nearly $1000 for an air compressor, a 240V outlet, good sanding blocks, paint guns, grinder, respirators, body filler, etc. I haven't even purchased the main ingredient yet - paint, which I priced out at $500 on the extreme low end.

The last two repaints that I've done I've used PPG global which whilesales for $450/GAL! Add to that the primer, the surfacer, the clear and product alone can easily get close to $2k.

high volume low pressure.

There's HVLP, compliant, and non-hvlp(old tech).

The point of it is higher transfer effciency, (ie. less overspray!) finer atomization......but they consume alot of air. They work excellent, although honestly if you've not sprayed with each type you wouldn't know the difference you'd just think thats how it is.

But a compliant (decent transfer effciency) or old style gun (shitty transfer effciency), although it will consume less air, will be spraying at a higher pressure and blasting tonnes of paint into the air - and also getting some on the panel :lol:

Full HVLP setup meaning you don't simply buy an HVLP gun and go nuts. You need larger diameter lines and fittings to feed the higher volume into the gun. Also, your compressor *ideally* should be over 20CFM on an HVLP setup.

Brands....meh not so much. They all spray a little different I find its better to fit the gun to your style then the other way around. I've been a devilbiss fan for a while. The anesta Iwata gun's i've been using lately are nice....I do like SATA alot, but hate having to get parts for them, and my style doesn't fit they're pattern as you generally have to be much closer to the panel then I'm comfortable with to get proper transfer.

Going with a non china gun - you go with what fits your style. Going with a cheap thing, well who knows. Chances are two of the same cheapies would spray differently then each other.

Hey Joe, I've been using a Sharpe Titanium (yeah yeah yeah) for probably 7 years now. Not much experience with anything else out there, what are your feelings on that gun? I've got some repainting to do on the FC this winter, and I'm hoping to land a restoration job on an FB this winter as well.

[JerryLH3]

Full HVLP setup meaning you don't simply buy an HVLP gun and go nuts. You need larger diameter lines and fittings to feed the higher volume into the gun. Also, your compressor *ideally* should be over 20CFM on an HVLP setup.

Brands....meh not so much. They all spray a little different I find its better to fit the gun to your style then the other way around. I've been a devilbiss fan for a while. The anesta Iwata gun's i've been using lately are nice....I do like SATA alot, but hate having to get parts for them, and my style doesn't fit they're pattern as you generally have to be much closer to the panel then I'm comfortable with to get proper transfer.



Ok, gotcha. I knew about HVLP, and you explained what I thought you might be hinting at when you referred to larger lines and fittings plus a compressor that can flow a LOT of air. I've got a couple of DeVilbiss guns for my project. My compressor may not be ideal, but it's better than trying to use a 15 gallon Craftsman.

[project86]

That's not an investment at all. An investment for those tools would be about $1000 for an air comp, $500 for two spray guns, $200+ for a DA sander. It really sounds like you're on a retardedly tight bugdet and should wait till classes resume. Not to sound like a dick but if you're complaining about spending $150 on a compressor, how are you going to feel spending $40 in plastic, $20 is wood, and $50 on a few decent fans to section off the garage?


NO shit right? I my Snap-On DA was around $250 if i remember correctly with my SEP discount with Snap-On. Im was and am still going to buy a SATAjet basecoat gun (1,4 tip) thats $700 just for one gun! Plus prep is one of the most expensive parts of the paint job and the most important part to the final outcome.



The last two repaints that I've done I've used PPG global which whilesales for $450/GAL! Add to that the primer, the surfacer, the clear and product alone can easily get close to $2k.

Also again! Tell me about it. I chose RM and Glasurit though (well thats waht i learned on and have available and its great stuff). It was about $350ish for my primer $600 for basecoat. I used DC5335 Glamour Clear for the whole car $250/gal. And i sprayed my CF hood with Glasurit 936-something or other and that shit is over $300/gal. This is not a cheap hobby how ever you look at it.:rofl:



Hey Joe, I've been using a Sharpe Titanium (yeah yeah yeah) for probably 7 years now. Not much experience with anything else out there, what are your feelings on that gun? I've got some repainting to do on the FC this winter, and I'm hoping to land a restoration job on an FB this winter as well.

I know im not Joe lol but like he said everyone has their own style. And you can adjust alot of things with just air pressure and how far or close you are while spraying. I dont see why there would be any problem with that gun as long as you can get it to atomize correctly. Brian judging buy the way your car looks and the fact that you've had no "formal" training?:dunno:( or have you ) id say youre doing just fine.


ClassicAuto: Do you paint professionally or is it just a hobby for you as well? You really seem to have a firm grasp on all this (not to sound like im like a paint god or anything). Its just nice to see someone else (Brian included) that really knows something about it and can help explain to people who dont know.

[JerryLH3]

The last two repaints that I've done I've used PPG global which whilesales for $450/GAL! Add to that the primer, the surfacer, the clear and product alone can easily get close to $2k.

Yowsers! I'd certainly like to spend that much, but just can't. One thing the paint supply place I talked to recommended was to maybe go with a slightly cheaper paint and a better clear.

[project86]

Yowsers! I'd certainly like to spend that much, but just can't. One thing the paint supply place I talked to recommended was to maybe go with a slightly cheaper paint and a better clear.

That can work. What brand are you using for paint? Ive used Limco basecoat and covered it with RM clearcoat and im getting ready to do it again because it worked so well. I would say check with the paint rep to make sure that they will work alright together and not cause you any problems down the road. Just because both products are made by the same parent company (Limco/RM/Glasurit in my case all owned by BASF) doesnt mean that you can mix the 3 brands and have a long lasting paint job. Id say just make sure you really do the research on it. You would hate to have a bad solvent pop issue or fisheyes or bad adhering because of something like that.

[classicauto]

Hey Joe, I've been using a Sharpe Titanium (yeah yeah yeah) for probably 7 years now. Not much experience with anything else out there, what are your feelings on that gun? I've got some repainting to do on the FC this winter, and I'm hoping to land a restoration job on an FB this winter as well.

Haven't personally used that gun, I've only sprayed one Sharpe before...a razor? IIRC? But worked nice. I'd say as long as its all sized properly fluid tip wise for the material, and you keep it good and clean it should do you well over the long term. Cleaning is really the key with keeping any gun spraying well, obviously.


Project86 - yes I do this professionally :)


As for spraying over cheap base coat with good clear - it can be done. Generally speaking, something like limco base (limco 4?) is *decent* product, but what makes a top end product isn't always just about material "quality". Limco paint line has alot of matches for factory colours, but they won't be as accurate as RM, Onyx or glasurit, they won't dry as fast, they may not cover as well etc etc etc. There's far more to a premium paint then simply durability - although durability is part of it. But in the case of a single paint job, often the cost savings can be worth it for a one timer or hobbyist. In a production shop setting you have to look at price vs. true cost so thats where premium lines really win out.

Make sure to verify via a tech line what products are recommend to top coat whatever you're spraying for colour. Alot of the time, most anything will do. But in some cases specialty clears may not be recommended over low end base, so be certain whatever you're combining *will* work.....according to the paint manufacturer.

[TitaniumTT]

NO shit right? I my Snap-On DA was around $250 if i remember correctly with my SEP discount with Snap-On. Im was and am still going to buy a SATAjet basecoat gun (1,4 tip) thats $700 just for one gun! Plus prep is one of the most expensive parts of the paint job and the most important part to the final outcome.

Also again! Tell me about it. I chose RM and Glasurit though (well thats waht i learned on and have available and its great stuff). It was about $350ish for my primer $600 for basecoat. I used DC5335 Glamour Clear for the whole car $250/gal. And i sprayed my CF hood with Glasurit 936-something or other and that shit is over $300/gal. This is not a cheap hobby how ever you look at it.:rofl:

No shit, my old habit of hookers and blow was cheaper :smilielol5:

I know im not Joe lol but like he said everyone has their own style. And you can adjust alot of things with just air pressure and how far or close you are while spraying. I dont see why there would be any problem with that gun as long as you can get it to atomize correctly. Brian judging buy the way your car looks and the fact that you've had no "formal" training?:dunno:( or have you ) id say youre doing just fine.

Nope, non at all. Just an anal retentive bastard who wanted to paint his own car like 7 years ago, bought a gun and a book and made good friends with the supply house. They were really invaluable with thier little hints and tips and tricks. Like you said though, the prep work can make a huge difference on the outcome, and like I said, I'm an anal retentive bastard who has no issues working a panel to absolute perfection. Spraying took some practive, I think I painted my hood 4 times before I was happy with it. Literally. Just paid attention to what I did wrong and learned from it. My FC was my first paint job.


ClassicAuto: Do you paint professionally or is it just a hobby for you as well? You really seem to have a firm grasp on all this (not to sound like im like a paint god or anything). Its just nice to see someone else (Brian included) that really knows something about it and can help explain to people who dont know.

Joe is the shit, his car was fucking gorgeous when I say her at deals last year. My car looked like shit. Hadn't been compounded glazed or waxed in about 2-3 years. Getting close to that now, I think it's been 8 months or so :banghead:

You would hate to have a bad solvent pop issue or fisheyes or bad adhering because of something like that.

Ain't that the truth............

Haven't personally used that gun, I've only sprayed one Sharpe before...a razor? IIRC? But worked nice. I'd say as long as its all sized properly fluid tip wise for the material, and you keep it good and clean it should do you well over the long term. Cleaning is really the key with keeping any gun spraying well, obviously.

Yup, With the exception of a few dings in the can she looks just like it did when I bought it. Had to rebuild it once in the last 7 years becuase of one seal that dried out. All in all I'm very happy with it, and if you tell me it's not a piece of junk, I'll keep on rolling with it. What I would love to try are those 3M cans that can be sprayed at any angle. I'd love to try those out.


Project86 - yes I do this professionally :)


As for spraying over cheap base coat with good clear - it can be done. Generally speaking, something like limco base (limco 4?) is *decent* product, but what makes a top end product isn't always just about material "quality". Limco paint line has alot of matches for factory colours, but they won't be as accurate as RM, Onyx or glasurit, they won't dry as fast, they may not cover as well etc etc etc. There's far more to a premium paint then simply durability - although durability is part of it. But in the case of a single paint job, often the cost savings can be worth it for a one timer or hobbyist. In a production shop setting you have to look at price vs. true cost so thats where premium lines really win out.

Make sure to verify via a tech line what products are recommend to top coat whatever you're spraying for colour. Alot of the time, most anything will do. But in some cases specialty clears may not be recommended over low end base, so be certain whatever you're combining *will* work.....according to the paint manufacturer.

Again, ain't those few points the truth.

[JerryLH3]

That can work. What brand are you using for paint?

Probably PPG, but I've yet to settle on anything in the paint department. Heck, I'm still mulling over a color change.

[Max777]

Umm, thank you for all the advice, I honestly did not expect so many people to reply.... I did want to shine a bit more light on the situation though, so you can get a better idea where I'm coming from:

I'm a 20yo automotive college student and $8.25/hour Volvo Apprentice Tech. My car is a 1986 mazda with 150,000 miles. I'm not going to be doing collision work for a living, and the way some of you talk about $700 paint guns and $2000 paint, makes it sound like you think I'm a trust fund kid.

I got my TII for 1800, and put a lot of money into it just to get it somewhat reliable and drivable. I dont give a flying fuck if it's not perfect. All I care about is that the car is one color, looks shiny, and doesn't have a ton of dings and scratch marks all over the place. Sure, I could wait forever, and have my car sit for 3 years in the garage, and then have a nice fc... or I can make things move a little quicker, and actually DRIVE my car? I think I'll take the second one. :D

So far, I got Sherwin Williams BMW alpine white for $270 out the door. (This is sealer, base, clear, and the hardener/reducer needed to spray the whole car) 35% student discount again. :D


EDIT: Yeah, I looked at compressors, it seems like I'll either look into my 40% student discount with some tool companies, or try to get one at auction/craigslist.

For a gun, I'll shop around. A nice snap-on DA will prolly run me like $125 new, so I might as well pick one up...

Anyway, I'll see how my car goes, and might as well wait for school to start back up...

[project86]

i hear where you are coming from man. Im also 20 and just graduated with a degree in collision repair. and right now im jobless but im gettin ready to be in the air force so i hear ya on the money thing too. good luck and keep us updated on the build and paint job.