Stumbled over from "the evil forum"

[Sharingan 19]

Certainly not new to rotaries or forums, but I had no idea this one was out there. I see references to "the evil forum" in a large number of threads here....wtf is that about? I'm sure there's a thread somewhere w/ details, but that seems more like lounge material and that's a place I avoid on every forum I frequent so.....

Anyways, car is an 87 TII work in progress. A pic from when I was making progress ...
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs492.snc3/26874_619256897501_45000098_33983345_2531036_n.jpg

After a dumb bitch in a Ford Explorer ran me off the interstate ....
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs492.snc3/26874_619258075141_45000098_33983402_4553412_n.jpg

On the way back up....
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs492.ash1/26874_619258544201_45000098_33983405_3802277_n.jpg

[Phoenix7]

welcome and nice car, can't wait to see it finished...again. Where are you from? is that a real GTR or an aftermarket decal on an FC?

Also note that SOME ppl don't like the term evil forum (even though it's been that since the early 2000s) because of the beef with RCC...they think it's us instigating shit when in reality it was the name given to the 7club by teamfc3s.org.

Welcome and don't fear the lounge...we're not the 7club or any other club for that matter.

[mnrthrt]

sux what she did amigo! good lookin car though :)

[ZGN]

Long story short, several years ago 7club was purchased by a large corperation that jacked up vendor rates in the hundreds per month to adversitse on their forum. Lots of long time small vendors could not pay the high rates and were not allowed to sell on their forum. RCC was started to allow all members and vendors to sell rotary parts online with ZERO fee's.

Why support a rotary forum who does not support your rotary vendors. We can provide everything that you need here and also when you click refresh the site does not take 20 seconds+ to load.

Welcome to the all #1 all rotary forum. Visit often!

[hecmanortiz]

I've always wondered but never asked. Good explanation.
Thanks Kevin.

[RAZOR]

good info. I did no know that story. Nice car too

[RICE RACING]

Long story short, several years ago 7club was purchased by a large corperation that jacked up vendor rates in the hundreds per month to adversitse on their forum. Lots of long time small vendors could not pay the high rates and were not allowed to sell on their forum. RCC was started to allow all members and vendors to sell rotary parts online with ZERO fee's.

Why support a rotary forum who does not support your rotary vendors. We can provide everything that you need here and also when you click refresh the site does not take 20 seconds+ to load.

Welcome to the all #1 all rotary forum. Visit often!

^ I got stooged off that forum cause:

"Your experience and information hinders the sales of other paying vendors and as such is commercially not viable for us"

:rofl: It's a total arse of a forum :icon_tdown: just like fdrx7.com too, run by a select bunch of fuckwits who try to enforce their skewed view of the world upon others and will go to no end to destroy others business too....

This forum here is great :icon_tup: :001_005: recommend it to your friends and help it grow.

[TitaniumTT]

:rofl: I just got banned for a week for "attacking a forum member"

All I can think was I called a mod naive for commenting on a product that he's never had any experience with :rolleyes:

[LunchboxCritter]

I thought the "evil forum" got it's nickname because of the hateful responses to threads by members who have read it all, done it all, and know it all. 99% of all threads that I have read start out with a legit problem, and almost immediately someone says, "search, that has already been covered".

I found a member on there that happened to have the ultra rare wind/rain guards and he told me he would take $250 for them. I don't know about anyone else, but that's alot of money to spend on two pieces of injected molded plastic, so I asked to be given a night to think about it. He got mad and said they are not for sale so don't worry about it. What an a$$. <~~~ one of several bad experiences that I had on the "other" forum.

This forum is night/day different from the other. I have yet to encounter a negative or hateful user on here. Many knowledgable and friendly people here. I feel like most of the fellow members on here really love their cars as much as I love mine. There doesn't seem to be people on here who make their living by parting out precious cars for a profit, and bullying people into buying parts for over inflated prices. :)

[lh6601]

This forum is a 1000 times better than 7club. I can't deal with half the people on that forum. It seems like some of those clowns lurk around waiting for a "newb" rotary enthusiast to start a thread, and then flame the shit out of them for, alot of times, no reason at all. How's that gonna help the rotary community in any way? Fuckin' stupid.

I also love the fact that vendors can advertise for free. How the fuck can you justify raping the pockets of the people who are solely keeping the rotary engine alive?

[lh6601]

Oh, and nice TII by the way. Sucks to see it damaged like that. Glad its recovering.

[Phoenix7]

^ I got stooged off that forum cause:

"Your experience and information hinders the sales of other paying vendors and as such is commercially not viable for us"

:rofl: It's a total arse of a forum :icon_tdown: just like fdrx7.com too, run by a select bunch of fuckwits who try to enforce their skewed view of the world upon others and will go to no end to destroy others business too....

This forum here is great :icon_tup: :001_005: recommend it to your friends and help it grow.
haha, amazing, going in my sig now.

[TitaniumTT]

^ I got stooged off that forum cause:

"Your experience and information hinders the sales of other paying vendors and as such is commercially not viable for us"

:rofl: It's a total arse of a forum :icon_tdown: just like fdrx7.com too, run by a select bunch of fuckwits who try to enforce their skewed view of the world upon others and will go to no end to destroy others business too....

This forum here is great :icon_tup: :001_005: recommend it to your friends and help it grow.

Wait...........



What
The
Fuck???

wow.......

[Phoenix7]

I still can't believe it...they see $$$ and that's it...It's not cheap to run a forum, ask ZGN, but these guys are milking their forums for all they've got. I'm surprised to see the "enthusiasts" on the evil forum put up/ignore this. I guess that as long as "their friends are there" it doesn't matter.

[1twistedrx7]

I still can't believe it...they see $$$ and that's it...It's not cheap to run a forum, ask ZGN, but these guys are milking their forums for all they've got. I'm surprised to see the "enthusiasts" on the evil forum put up/ignore this. I guess that as long as "their friends are there" it doesn't matter.

god almighty! you should be blessed for speaking the truth.so much less drama over here!

[RICE RACING]

Flat out 100% truth, I was given an ultimatum to pay up (sign up as a vendor or be banned for life) even though I never used the forum to sell one thing! but as they put it (I) made life difficult for their paying vendors who did not want to have to put up with truth (especially in regards to water injection! *at that time all paying vendors and groupies gagged like whores on cocks for methanol injection & rampant shit talkers like BDC and associated vendors), engineering facts and ultimately freedom of speech meant nothing to them!, never did never has since it went corporate....

^ I said a few nice things about his mother in reply to the ultimatum.

I to this day cannot stand any forum that has vested interest groups who push their own open or hidden agendas, be they commercial in nature or EGO driven.

[Herblenny]

I think most people know where I stand... and my conversation with Icemark before he passed away and as respect, I will stay way from the negative topic of 7club vs. RCC.

I will however say that me and some of the Admins on 7club have agreed not to bash each other and they have kindly lifted banning of RCC presence on 7Club. Now we are allow to link links from RCC on 7club etc. But, we have agreed not to used that to advertise RCC.

That being said, 7Club has gotten better from the days when RCC was started. One thing I've seen recently are some vendors that were problematic to 7Club has came over to RCC and caused some issues. I do hate scammers and vendors who do not take their role seriously.

RCC will grow!!! It has grown every year and people are slowly learning about this forum. But like anything else, its the community that builds this forum. So, please be kind to your friends and help spread the word.

On side note, like RICE RACING... I dislike BDC and BDC will never be allowed on this forum :)

[RICE RACING]

On side note, like RICE RACING... I dislike BDC and BDC will never be allowed on this forum :)

I LOVE YOU *not in a gay way* unless you would like that lol.

Final word I will say is that arse clown made me go from a mod on that forum to being banned in short time needing to counter all of his slander and bashing of my company and my technology on every forum he was part of or involved it, he is an oxygen thief, an idiot of the highest order. One thing I will give to him though is he motivated me to collate allot of my information and put it onto my own web site and to actively find other web sites that are not populated by over opinionated and under skilled key board bashing homo's like him. It is poetic justice that now on that arse of a forum every second man is talking about water injection using it and obtaining the results I always said I had and others got many years before he learned how to get onto the internet. I learned allot from that experience and I think many learned just how much a tool that **** really is too.

[Prodigy]

To the OP (Sharingan 19)

I love the car... looks awesome... I am excited to see it when its restored back to its future glory...


To Phil

I think most people know where I stand... and my conversation with Icemark before he passed away and as respect, I will stay way from the negative topic of 7club vs. RCC.

In my opinion, makes you the better man, even though you could, and probably have the reasons too.. you dont... Good Call

On side note, like RICE RACING... I dislike BDC and BDC will never be allowed on this forum :)

excuse my ignorance... but who/what is BDC....?

feel free to Pm if you dont want to slander publicly, I can understand that..


J.

[Phoenix7]

On side note, like RICE RACING... I dislike BDC and BDC will never be allowed on this forum :)he's always been the: of course, let me help you with your car, I'd be more than happy to give you my knowledge...it's gonna be $$XX per hour. Kthanksbyebye

As far as RX7club/RCC/Mark's death....well, sorry for the loss to his friends and family but his actions and how he bullshit me (and others regarding the new rules and IB/RCC) multiple times and could only save face by getting me banned won't fly. Whether or not he's dead doesn't change what IB is doing to the community nor the steps he, and his cronies took to help IB.

You keep your promise phil...good for you. You can always be the good face of RCC, I'm never gonna stop being the prick who tells it like it is..

[RICE RACING]

I just can't help myself !

*up to date recent example of how much of a keyboard whore that worthless BDC clown is*
> http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=907904

That site has turned to shit, its logic seems to be that if you can touch type you are an expert in all things to do with mechanical engineering :rofl:
It's funny cause between him and a select few other clowns they are just typing to themselves for the most part :) I think people of any note gave up caring a long time ago.

It's probably an internet thing? I don't know, but that style of post just flat out shits me to tears, its more politician than technician, spin over substance :)

[AndyMac]

:rofl: It's a total arse of a forum :icon_tdown: just like fdrx7.com too, run by a select bunch of fuckwits who try to enforce their skewed view of the world upon others and will go to no end to destroy others business too....




Hi Peter


Hope you're doing well mate. We, the selected fuckwits miss you.

I'm not going to disrepect this forum with trawling out your history with our forum, but I will say you where given every chance, more chances then anyone else to fit in like everyone else.

Blame yourself, not us.


Love FDRX7

[wotnartd]

BDC put a map together for my friend's Haltec for free.

[TitaniumTT]

Oh really? You sure he didn't just pull one off the forum or have one saved that was close enough? Starting a map from scratch takes HOURS

I wish I could read the link damnitalltohell

[My5ABaby]

he's always been the: of course, let me help you with your car, I'd be more than happy to give you my knowledge...it's gonna be $$XX per hour. Kthanksbyebye

As far as RX7club/RCC/Mark's death....well, sorry for the loss to his friends and family but his actions and how he bullshit me (and others regarding the new rules and IB/RCC) multiple times and could only save face by getting me banned won't fly. Whether or not he's dead doesn't change what IB is doing to the community nor the steps he, and his cronies took to help IB.

You keep your promise phil...good for you. You can always be the good face of RCC, I'm never gonna stop being the prick who tells it like it is..
Hate only begets hate. Personally, I dislike being in a toxic environment where people bad talk others. The way I see it, we want to attract people because it's a positive and open environment and anything to the contrary does nothing but hurt RCC. I find it especially disturbing since you're a mod and as such represent the forum. Sure, people got banned, screwed over, scolded, etc. Get over it. I see it as a sign of immaturity that's very distasteful. I'm VERY thankful that Phil is not doing this because if he was I doubt I would still be on this forum.

Cliff notes: Grow up and let it go.

Certainly not new to rotaries or forums, but I had no idea this one was out there. I see references to "the evil forum" in a large number of threads here....wtf is that about? I'm sure there's a thread somewhere w/ details, but that seems more like lounge material and that's a place I avoid on every forum I frequent so.....
Welcome Sharingan. I'm glad to have a new person to the site. I find it very unfortunate that one of the first things you notice is the negativity. :(

[Phoenix7]

that's fine, you know what to do if you don't like it. I always say what's on my mind on this forum or any other one...nobody is making you read my posts. I was asked to be a mod to HELP on the forum...I represent myself and I help out whenever I can. You should take your line of thinking and apply it to your friends on the 7club...maybe then you'll actually do something useful. THis is an open and friendly environment in all respects EXCEPT the 7club. Fuck them, plain and simple. If you don't like it, it applies to you too.

Cliffs: i don't care what you think, never have never will.

p.s. :lol: at your avatar. You don't even know where and how it started! :lol:

[RICE RACING]

Hi Peter


Hope you're doing well mate. We, the selected fuckwits miss you.

I'm not going to disrepect this forum with trawling out your history with our forum, but I will say you where given every chance, more chances then anyone else to fit in like everyone else.

Blame yourself, not us.


Love FDRX7

Please stay in your own little shit hole of self worship troll ;) your one sided skewed views and doctored opinions only belong there not here... you have no one to blame but yourselves, def not me :rofl:

Being part of an inbred site/s run by clowns who actively slander businesses is nothing to be proud of or sign up to other forums for or bandwagon on other forums and ask for threads to be removed cause you have no control over free speech :o10:

Sticking up for that shit hole and its owner over here shows you have no life and no principles at all :icon_tdown: ............. you have what you created go and enjoy it with your half dozen members :rofl: its proven your pissy little site and membership cant take the heat over on Ausrotary, funny I am still an active member there, says heaps for how you cunts like to run your little shit hole of self love :rofl:

[derek]

registered some time ago.. just gracing this thread with my first post.

[Prodigy]

Welcome^^^^


what are you driving/working on currently....?


J.

[wotnartd]

Oh really? You sure he didn't just pull one off the forum or have one saved that was close enough? Starting a map from scratch takes HOURS

I wish I could read the link damnitalltohell

This is a possibility I have thought about.

[RICE RACING]

+ 1 for leaving crap behind.

Remember there are always 2 sides to a story! no matter who's side you are on or otherwise. Pretty rank I'd suggest for trolls to come over and put forth their arguments regardless of which pointless forum they are a groupie or admin of :banghead:

Point is there has and always will be problems with ego or profit driven power hungry forums, ultimately the ones who miss out are the people who are looking for real information from people who are proficient in the ability to do the work, not search wiki or the internet for the information. Same for pretend engineers or enthusiastic owners single car efforts thinking they are gods gift based of their credit car expenditure or touch typing skills amassing a mountain of worthless crap on a web forum they have created and then trying to pass it off as an asset :rofl:

There are very few real capable genuine people who contribute to forums, most do not waste their time dealing with bottom feeders of the industry that is modified cars, simple fact of life there.

Some of us move on and find places where we can enjoy talking with normal well adjusted people and share a common interest, which is why we like this forum, some others just cant let go and feel the need to troll for years in spite to make up for something they themselves will never ever have.............................. ability, knowledge, empathy, and respect.

IF you don't want to be part of it go back to your own home and talk to your own kind of people, simple.

[jerd_hambone]

Hi Peter


Hope you're doing well mate. We, the selected fuckwits miss you.

I'm not going to disrepect this forum with trawling out your history with our forum, but I will say you where given every chance, more chances then anyone else to fit in like everyone else.

Blame yourself, not us.


Love FDRX7

Were we just getting trolled by a 7club mod?



Welcome all you new guys though, on the other hand.

[RICE RACING]

Were we just getting trolled by a 7club mod?



Welcome all you new guys though, on the other hand.

No mate just a worthless minion from a massive overrated ego driven self professed rx7 forum based in Australia mostly on shit/wiki/google/ripped info of other sites/and opinion from computer clerks, public servants, and every other occupation that involves sitting in front of a PC 9-5 and typing rubbish while paying others to build/tune your car :rofl: ........... they wish their site was as egocentric as 7club :rofl: maybe it is in their own deluded minds? :rofl:

[AndyMac]

Please stay in your own little shit hole of self worship troll ;) your one sided skewed views and doctored opinions only belong there not here... you have no one to blame but yourselves, def not me :rofl:

Being part of an inbred site/s run by clowns who actively slander businesses is nothing to be proud of or sign up to other forums for or bandwagon on other forums and ask for threads to be removed cause you have no control over free speech :o10:

Sticking up for that shit hole and its owner over here shows you have no life and no principles at all :icon_tdown: ............. you have what you created go and enjoy it with your half dozen members :rofl: its proven your pissy little site and membership cant take the heat over on Ausrotary, funny I am still an active member there, says heaps for how you cunts like to run your little shit hole of self love :rofl:

Any slander you get is totally deserved farm boy. Its not as if you haven't done enough of it yourself ?

It was a chance search that found you paying out your old mates on a random site.


Love Again
Andy

[RICE RACING]

Any slander you get is totally deserved farm boy. Its not as if you haven't done enough of it yourself ?

It was a chance search that found you paying out your old mates on a random site.


Love Again
Andy

:seeya: troll :seeya:

[AndyMac]

No mate just a worthless minion from a massive overrated ego driven self professed rx7 forum based in Australia mostly on shit/wiki/google/ripped info of other sites/and opinion from computer clerks, public servants, and every other occupation that involves sitting in front of a PC 9-5 and typing rubbish while paying others to build/tune your car :rofl: ........... they wish their site was as egocentric as 7club :rofl: maybe it is in their own deluded minds? :rofl:


This hurts Peter.

It really hurts.

[jerd_hambone]

Oh lord, we've opened up a shit box hahaha

Lets all get along guys!

We are all around for the same purpose.

[Herblenny]

he's always been the: of course, let me help you with your car, I'd be more than happy to give you my knowledge...it's gonna be $$XX per hour. Kthanksbyebye

As far as RX7club/RCC/Mark's death....well, sorry for the loss to his friends and family but his actions and how he bullshit me (and others regarding the new rules and IB/RCC) multiple times and could only save face by getting me banned won't fly. Whether or not he's dead doesn't change what IB is doing to the community nor the steps he, and his cronies took to help IB.

You keep your promise phil...good for you. You can always be the good face of RCC, I'm never gonna stop being the prick who tells it like it is..

I hear you Hassell.. I think you hate Mark as much as I hate few of the select few (about a handful). And I do admire that as I also do that. I know some people think its crazy.. but seriously, we all have this hatred inside for those who just rub us the wrong way. Its human nature... Once someone gets on my bad side like that.. like really bad, I'll make sure they stay away from me and will never let go... I guess maybe until they die or admit their fault and apologize. I am overall pretty understanding person and I also respect those who admit fault... because I believe its hard to do and shows their character. Its those who have such ego and can't admit their fault are the ones I hate and do what I can with my power.. In some ways, thats facts of life :)

Regarding 7Club, some management have changed for the better and because of RCC, their rules have changed also... some of the rules.... I also know they are more business oriented vs. community oriented and I will try to respect what they do. I also hope RCC will stay how it is now and never forget why we started this forum, but this is not my saying as there are very limited select few who have more to say than I and bills need to be paid...

[My5ABaby]

that's fine, you know what to do if you don't like it. :
No, please tell me as I don't want to misunderstand you.

I always say what's on my mind on this forum or any other one...nobody is making you read my posts. I was asked to be a mod to HELP on the forum...I represent myself and I help out whenever I can. You should take your line of thinking and apply it to your friends on the 7club...maybe then you'll actually do something useful. THis is an open and friendly environment in all respects EXCEPT the 7club. Fuck them, plain and simple. If you don't like it, it applies to you too.

Cliffs: i don't care what you think, never have never will.
Nobody is making me read your posts is correct and I have no problem avoiding people (not that I'll avoid your posts since I have no issue with you in general). However, the person who first joins the forum will read your posts. What disappoints me is that you fail to see that your posts regarding the 7 club are harmful to the community. There is nothing gained from negative posts about another forum. The 7 club has many faults, but it is still an awesome source of knowledge that the vast majority of people have no issues with. When someone new comes over they're likely doing it to join another forum, rather than transfer. As such, they see people bashing on a forum they enjoy going to so which do you think they'll choose? The old one that they enjoy or the new one that has people bashing on something they enjoy? I don't ask those rhetorically.

You're making blanket and incorrect statements about me including my contributions. I make no argument that I have contributed less than many members as I'm not as knowledgable as some (and I reference the 2nd gen section because that's where I frequent... TTT, Kevin, RETed, etc.). However, I have made numerous positive contributions.

I'm not asking you to care about my opinions. I'm asking you to consider your actions and how they affect RCC. What are the advantages to bashing on the 7 club? What are the disadvantages? How does it make RCC look as a forum?

One reason I frequent here is because of the maturity. If that's taken away, that's a huge positive of RCC that's lost.

p.s. :lol: at your avatar. You don't even know where and how it started! :lol:
:
Are you really trying to imply that someone who has been a member on the 7 club since 2003 doesn't know what's going on? I hope that you reconsider you're erroneous statement. I changed my avatar to this when Mark died and am unable to change it back to my prior one (I'd be more than happy to provide a screenshot showing it's changed in my control panel but not here). However, despite some negative actions to the community towards the end of his tenure, he still had a multitude of positive impacts. He helped me personally numerous times, along with countless other people. Do I agree with how things went down? No. Do I still respect what he did for the community? Yes.

[Phoenix7]

No, please tell me as I don't want to misunderstand you. don't be dense, if I have to spell it out then don't worry about it.


Nobody is making me read your posts is correct and I have no problem avoiding people (not that I'll avoid your posts since I have no issue with you in general). However, the person who first joins the forum will read your posts. What disappoints me is that you fail to see that your posts regarding the 7 club are harmful to the community. There is nothing gained from negative posts about another forum. The 7 club has many faults, but it is still an awesome source of knowledge that the vast majority of people have no issues with. When someone new comes over they're likely doing it to join another forum, rather than transfer. As such, they see people bashing on a forum they enjoy going to so which do you think they'll choose? The old one that they enjoy or the new one that has people bashing on something they enjoy? I don't ask those rhetorically.so my posts against the 7club harm the community than the 7club itself? :lol: please man, you've been crying about this shit since day one...when will you learn that I don't care if you THINK others will be upset? What makes you think I CARE if others get upset? IF they get upset over the truth then they really have underlying issues they need to take care of before exploring the interwebs.



You're making blanket and incorrect statements about me including my contributions. I make no argument that I have contributed less than many members as I'm not as knowledgable as some (and I reference the 2nd gen section because that's where I frequent... TTT, Kevin, RETed, etc.). However, I have made numerous positive contributions.perhaps, I apologize for that.

I'm not asking you to care about my opinions. I'm asking you to consider your actions and how they affect RCC. What are the advantages to bashing on the 7 club? What are the disadvantages? How does it make RCC look as a forum?You're trying to tell me that my OPINIONS on a site somehow negatively affects the tech on this forum? Or that it affects the friendliness of others who frequent this forum? Or that my PERSONAL OPINIONS are those of ALL OF YOU! that is bullshit and you know it, you've been saying the same thing for a long time and you're wrong...you can say it again in the next "i hate the 7club thread" and you still won't be right. They're MY personal opinions and you don't have to agree with them and you can't censor me, we're not on the 7club anymore buddy.

One reason I frequent here is because of the maturity. If that's taken away, that's a huge positive of RCC that's lost.well be mature and quit crying about my opinions, it's a free country adn as long as we continue to be I'll freely express my opinions.


Are you really trying to imply that someone who has been a member on the 7 club since 2003 doesn't know what's going on? I hope that you reconsider you're erroneous statement. I changed my avatar to this when Mark died and am unable to change it back to my prior one (I'd be more than happy to provide a screenshot showing it's changed in my control panel but not here). However, despite some negative actions to the community towards the end of his tenure, he still had a multitude of positive impacts. He helped me personally numerous times, along with countless other people. Do I agree with how things went down? No. Do I still respect what he did for the community? Yes.
that's what makes me laugh.

Icemark started using that sig to spite ME after a long, heated, PM exchange we had when Landers and others were first banned.

Then all the groupy assholes decided that they'd honor mark by using the sig he purposely used to spite people rather than the sig he had BEFORE all this bullshit happened. You don't know shit. If people really wanted to honor the man we all (yes, I did look up to him at one point) remembered then the Samurai Jack avatar should have been used. Right now it's a bunch of moronic groupies that don't know shit rollin' around in Mr. Smith avatars honoring the man who single handedly started the rift between RCC and the 7club. It's the truth, whether you like it or not.

If you're done then stop posting....I am down to continue this but I suggest making another thread.

[TitaniumTT]

Cliff's notes:

Phoenix - I gotta side with My Baby here.... and here's why, first thing I do after I log in and check PM's is hit the new posts button. All I keep seeing getting bumped is these I hate 7Club threads. RCC isn't the evil forum, we know this, there's no reason to keep rehashing this bullshit. One of the reasons I love RCC so much is becuase there's none of this trolling, I'm better than you, you don't know shit, slidewayz is the only wayz bullshit, I fucking HATE that crap. Enough is enough already, if we want to set ourselves apart with this sense of community and maturity, then lets start projecting that. Threads like this don't project it, Period. We all have our opinions of 7Club, for fucks sake I'm banned again right now but I'm not going to sit behind a keyboard and bitch about deceased members and what they did or did not do.

Regarding Mark - and this is ALL I'm going to say about Mark, do NOT expect a reply because one will not be had. Mark banned me a few times. I knew Mark personally, met him a few times, bullshat with him on the phone quite a bit, hoisted many a beers with him and almost flew across the country to be at his funeral. Did I mention Mark banned me a few times? Mark was a great person who took his responsibility very seriously. He was an enforcer, not a policy maker. Everyone here is attacking him for doing what he was told to do by the people higher up the food chain than him. When DocRX7 perma-banned me for a PM of all things, he talked to Paul, he gave me a few acct's to use and told me if I behaved in 3 months he would go over thier heads to re-open my original acct, merge them all and take the heat for me. I really wish people would stop thinking that Mark was the policy maker because he wasn't. Do I agree with all of his actions? No, but he didn't agree with all of mine either.

Now, can we please get back to some tech bullshit instead?

[FC Zach]

Welcome Sharingan 19, very nice car, good luck with the repairs! Sucks that you have to start over!

[Phoenix7]

"Some people see what they want to see, but some others see what is. The world of appearance is more appealing than reality to many."

I will not apologize for my opinions but I will apologize for posting my opinions in Sharigan's thread. IF he requests I'll remove the posts.

[Sharingan 19]

WOW! Talk about a productive first post.

A few tangents aside, this is exactly the information I was looking for. A lot of things make much more sense now.

After that accident I didn't spend much time on 7club (ironic I know, but what needed to be fixed was rather obvious, no need to consult the omnicient inter webs, lol) and when I came back, I noticed....or rather didn't notice I few members, most notably Kevin Landers....I checked to see that his site was still up, but couldn't figured out where the "missing members" went. Then I found a link to something he was selling on this forum...

Glad to see this is a more mature forum concerned about the community and not just profits, I'll def be spending some time here.

To be honest, I find some of the E-thuggery mildly entertaining, especially threads about "proper stance" and "proper fitment" . But if I were a vendor, or technical expert and I recieved the type of treatment that many on this forum apparently have, I would squander no opportunity to voice my opinion, and hit them where it counts.....their pockets.

That being said, there are still some valuable contributors on the forum and people who are interested in helping the community. Its a shame that a few at the top can spoil the experience for so many.

[wotnartd]

Nobody on RX7Club says this is the evil club.

God forbid we all forgive and forget, because that doesn't solve anything.

[wotnartd]

You don't have to be goody-goody friends and sleep together. Leave sleeping dogs lie.

Phoenix had no business stakes, like you, none. He's just a butthurt loungerat.

[Phoenix7]

You don't have to be goody-goody friends and sleep together. Leave sleeping dogs lie.

Phoenix had no business stakes, like you, none. He's just a butthurt loungerat.

yes...you're right. I was butthurt that friends and reputable small business owners were kicked out for not paying outrageous vendor fees over actions that were free. I was butthurt at the way the club went out of their way to fuck with RCC and I was mostly butthurt at seeing people abusing their power just because the new owners said to with no regard towards the way the community would be affected. I was also butthurt at the "hi, we're IB and you won't see ANY changes, it'll be like we're not even here" just a month or two before all this went down.

What's your point? You can come in and talk shit all you want but it doesn't change the facts and what's right. Call me anything you like, the mods over there already have said worse about me but it doesn't change the damage IB and the 7club have caused. Also if I'm a butthurt lounge rat; what's YOUR official title? I tried to be friendly and start all over with you when you came here but if you wanna go down this path I'll happily play along...

[wotnartd]

Simmer, simmer.

Any loungerat, any real loungerat, would have had a snappier comeback with anal sex.

[Phoenix7]

Simmer, simmer.

Any loungerat, any real loungerat, would have had a snappier comeback with anal sex.
come on, there's a time and a place for everything. I'm just not "mad..." I am more amused. I've been around long enough to see a setup when it's coming my way and you KNOW it'll take a lot more than that to get me riled up. You tried though...did I hear Landers say banhammer? :rofl: watch your ass because when you least expect it:
http://www.funnyforumpics.com/forums/Surprise-Buttsekz/2/normal_surprise_buttsex.jpg


I don't like them for what they did; I don't like the "enthusiasts" who ignore what's happening for convenience and the company of thousands of "owners" who don't know/don't care about what's happening to the community I truly care about. I won't tell people NOT to go to the 7club but I will ask to at least help in driving members towards RCC any chance they get. Don't try to get banned by being a dick or a douche, just tell the people YOU consider enthusiasts, TRUE ENTHUSIASTS, to come to RCC.

When the next fad comes the rotaries will be dropped as fast as the Hondas were a few years ago...the "owners" will move on and the few enthusiasts left won't be able to find parts/services at reasonable prices...because the small businesses will have been phased out and when there is NO competition there is no reason to keep prices low, is there? IB is exploiting the community and the few that care to talk openly about it and chided by the few bleeding hearts that feel others might get butthurt.

I say what I mean and I mean what I say.

[My5ABaby]

I'm just not going to let people come over here and tell us that we shouldn't show disdain for the evil forum, we should forgive, etc. F*** that. They haven't seen fit to "forgive and forget" by reopening our accounts yet. That would be a show of good faith but they arent willing to take that step. So, keep your "live and let live" BS to yourself, mmmmkay?
There's a difference between showing disdain and outright bashing every chance possible. That I've noticed Kevin you haven't really outright bashed, at least that I can recall lately. Your posts about the 7 club tend to be more factual.

However, the whole "they haven't seen fit" thing is just crap. Unless I'm mistaking you (please correct me if I am), that's saying we're going to sink toward their level (albeit not to it as RCC is far cooler) until they change.

Sure the 7 club screwed the community. Sure a lot of people got the shaft, some even DVDA-ed. But that was how long ago? How long is this going to go on? Even a self-respecting and mature guy whose wife cheated on him would have kicked the bitch to the curb and moved on by now. Hell, people continue to bitch about Icemark and he's been dead for over a year...

Don't you guys get it? We don't want to be goody-goody friends with rx7club.
I never thought for an instant that we want to be goody-goody friends with the 7 club. There is 0% of me that thinks we should help them in any way. All I'm saying is that we should take the high road. Members are coming to get away from the bullshit on the 7 club (e.g. bashing) so why continue to expose them to it? What's gained by continuing?

"Some people see what they want to see, but some others see what is. The world of appearance is more appealing than reality to many."
:rofl: Nobody sees "what is". Everyone has their own viewpoint on things and the world of appearance is more appealing to EVERYONE. If you wanted an accurate quote as opposed to one that insinuates that your viewpoint is "what is", it should be "Everyone sees what they want to see. The world of appearance is more appealing than reality". That's human nature. However, there are facts to be had such bashing on stuff is negative. Negativity is unpleasant. People are turned away from unpleasant things. I think where we disagree is that you believe your self-serving bashing is a positive and I don't.

[TitaniumTT]

There's a difference between showing disdain and outright bashing every chance possible. That I've noticed Kevin you haven't really outright bashed, at least that I can recall lately. Your posts about the 7 club tend to be more factual.

I've noticed that as well and it's somewhat refreshing

:rofl: Nobody sees "what is". Everyone has their own viewpoint on things and the world of appearance is more appealing to EVERYONE. If you wanted an accurate quote as opposed to one that insinuates that your viewpoint is "what is", it should be "Everyone sees what they want to see. The world of appearance is more appealing than reality". That's human nature. However, there are facts to be had such bashing on stuff is negative. Negativity is unpleasant. People are turned away from unpleasant things. I think where we disagree is that you believe your self-serving bashing is a positive and I don't.

:hurray:

[Phoenix7]

indeed...lol

http://static.open.salon.com/files/applause1234363884.gif

[My5ABaby]

Speaking for myself, I dont go around bashing 7club for the fun of it. I dont bring it up in conversation. But if someone ELSE brings it up or mentions it, or asks me about it...what should I say? I'm not the type to beat around the bush...if you ask a straight question you will get a straight answer, like it or not. I'm going to call a spade a spade, that's just the way it is.

Going back to the exgf/wife analogy, you are out at dinner among friends and one of your friends brings up your ex, your first comment is likely going to be "f*ck that bitch". Whether or not you are with someone new is irrelevant. If it was a bad breakup and someone you really cared a lot about, you are going to have that feeling about them for as long as you are alive. IF not, then you were not really ever passionate about it.

IF you were to go around and every day at lunch with your friends, at work, at home, constantly you were saying "man, that ex gf of mine is a bitch, f*ck that whore..." then yeah, you would be going way too far with it.

That's not what is happening here. Someone else brought it up, we are just responding. There's nothing wrong or unnatural about that. And yes, it's likely to always be that way, at least for me, as long as I am part of the community. When the day comes that I walk away from rotaries for good, then I will cease to care about the 7club debacle along with it. Until then, I am still reminded of it on a weekly basis, and I will continue to carry the flag and let everyone know why there is a problem with the way they do things.
Hmmmmm, you make very valid points. I reread the posts prior to my first one and have a better picture at this point. I have a tendency to skim until something catches my eye. My posts are also a reaction to something that has been bothering me for some time. However, I will say that it seems to be contagious. The first time the 7 club is mentioned it's like a plague descends that continually escalates. I will also say that you tend to go about it factually and educate people rather than spewing crap.

I think this sums it up well:

Long story short, several years ago 7club was purchased by a large corporation that jacked up vendor rates in the hundreds per month to advertise on their forum. Lots of long time small vendors could not pay the high rates and were not allowed to sell on their forum. RCC was started to allow all members and vendors to sell rotary parts online with ZERO fee's.

Why support a rotary forum who does not support your rotary vendors. We can provide everything that you need here and also when you click refresh the site does not take 20 seconds+ to load.

Welcome to the all #1 all rotary forum. Visit often!

Perhaps I just try to keep a positive outlook on things. I think it would most beneficial to just point out the positives of RCC rather than the negatives of the 7 club. There's a reason why commercials advertise the positive qualities of a product rather than why their competitors suck.

"Forum A has an open and mature environment that allows members to speak without fear of unwarranted banning. In Forum A's continuing effort to help the community, vendors and members are able to sell items at no charge. On top of all that you get unparalleled support from extremely knowledgeable members".

"Forum B allows members to sell free unlike the 7 club that charges ridiculous fees. I've also been banned numerous times by asshat moderators on the 7 club. Unlike the 7 club, the management at Forum B aren't a bunch of dbags who are out to make a buck. The 7 club is also full of dumbasses"

Forum A or Forum B? My choice is easy.

[RETed]

I just can't help myself !

*up to date recent example of how much of a keyboard whore that worthless BDC clown is*

Oh sh*t, that nearly made me hit the floor!

...and I thought it was just me. :D

I'll just leave it at that. :)


-Ted

[TitaniumTT]

Anyone wanna maybe screen shot that then and post it up? I'm still sorta kinda banned

[Herblenny]

Its really fucking long... I have to make it in two posts..

Howdy folks,

I just recently took a long trip from DFW to McAllen, Tx. Each way was over 560 miles and I did it solo. Needless to say, once the "road trip thrill" wore off, I had a lot of time to myself to think about things. I spent the majority of it ruminating over technical stuff and especially the whole AI thing. I'm not interested in making a "water vs. alcohol" thing as I feel that both fluids are powerful in as much as being helpful to the engine for reliability reasons.

I've said it a zillion times both on these forums and in public: The determining factor in making engine power, hardware aside, is the quality of the fuel used. Period.

Even after my experiment w/ the hot-air setup on my Turbo II, I've still got questions about the modes of action and the real efficacy AI has in our engines. It's my contention that both due to the unique nature of the rotary engine as well as its tendency at creating massive amounts of heat under heavy loads compared to piston engines that alcohol and water injection are very desirable. The longer I continue tuning the cars the more I'm leaning towards the notion that every one of our turbo cars need, at the very least, a basic water injection setup, if not a more complex all alcohol setup. I also believe that, due to the experiments that several of us have done up to this point over the last few years, there's an explosive amount of power with reliability awaiting us once this stuff becomes more technically understood and "standardized". It wouldn't surprise me if the somewhat ambiguous "1 bar on pump gas" deal becomes a thing of the past for us.

So far, we've got these basic setups available to us:

-) Pre-turbo water injection, pumpless (pneumatic)
-) Pre-turbo water injection, pumped (electronic)
-) Post-turbo water injection, aft of the throttle body, pressurized system
-) Post-turbo alcohol injection, pre throttle body
-) Post-turbo alcohol injection, hot-air setup (ala Stylemon and myself)
-) Post-Turbo water/alcohol combination

The properties of both fluids that are important in my opinion:

-) Specific Heat Index
-) Latent Heat of Evapouration
-) Autoignition Temperature (Alcohols)
-) Flash Temperature (Alcohols)

Also, I'm not forgetting that both are proven to combat carbon buildup in an engine. I've personally seen what heavy alcohol injection does to the innards - literally zero carbon on the rotors and little carbon in both intake manifolds all the way to the back of the throttle body (via reversion). Amazing stuff. The lingering thorn in my side I've had about carbon build-up is that not only does it theoretically raise compression ratios artificially but it also can produce hot spots that can act as "glow plugs" and intermittently ignite a compressing charge prior to a timed spark event.

As Howard Coleman's written about in his 3rd-gen section thread, the big one here is the latent heat factor in as much as the cooling BTU's that are delivered when the water or alcohol makes a change of state from fluid to vapour:

"The input of energy required by a change of state from liquid to vapor at constant temperature is called the latent heat of vaporization. When a liquid undergoes a change to vapor state at normal boiling point the temperature of the liquid will not rise beyond the temperature of the boiling point.

The specific latent heat of vaporization is the amount of heat required to convert unit mass of a liquid into the vapor without a change in temperature."

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fluids-evaporation-latent-heat-d_147.html

Some latent heat, autoignition, and flash numbers:

-) Gasoline, 150btu/lb, ~500*F, -45*F
-) Methyl Alcohol, 506btu/lb, ~870*F, 52*F
-) Ethyl Alcohol, 400btu/lb, ~790*F, 57*F
-) Water, ~1000 btu/lb, n/a, n/a

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/fueltable.pdf

The main differences between the two fluids as I see them: even though water has twice the latent heat of methyl alcohol, it's inert, therefore its only real benefit is strictly cooling. It strikes me that given its high latent heat it makes for a stellar combustion chamber coolant (to more importantly work during the compression stroke when pressures and temperatures are going up to help prevent fuel autoignition) as well as efficacious as a turbocharger's compressor coolant when done pre-turbo. Of course, the question of wheel erosion comes into play here with respect to the atomization of water: Can and will it destroy a compressor wheel over time? Water is extremely tough and I can't see a wheel not being chewed up over time if the atomization is extremely fine. But, that's just me. It might be that it's a moot point in terms of the trade-off of being able to extend the operating efficiency of the compressor by drawing heat out of its job of being an air compressor. I read a lengthy article once about how a gentleman, due to pre-turbo water injection, was able to run higher boosts (and prevent overheating) on his diesel truck when it was challenged by heat and high altitude/steep angle towing on the highway from LA to Las Vegas.

The other thing that comes to mind about pre-turbo water injection is this: Even though from a fault tolerance perspective (of not having to run an electric pump that can fail, etc.), if the latent heat factor is the big benefit of water injection, how much of that desirable property is lost with heat being drawn out of the water into the compressor? In other words, how much would one have to inject to be both beneficial to the compressor as well as ultimately the engine's combustion chamber? How much water here is being converted to steam in the compressor and therefore how much is left over on the compressor discharge to be of benefit in the combustion chamber? That's the meaning behind the thread's title, "Modes of Action and Efficacy". While I'm sure some (like rx72c) may disagree here, and that could just simply be due to my ignorance, it seems to me that a water injection setup belongs on an already tuned, 100% gasoline car where a measure of reliability is desired or when a small margin of that gasoline is to be replaced with water (where gasoline is commonly used as the assumed, de facto chamber coolant with air/fuel mixtures richer than 12:1). Perhaps the disagreement I would have with them is because of the massive amounts (upwards of 700cc/min!) folks like rx72c or Rice Racing use in their pre-turbo setups. Perhaps that amount of water is doing two things - moderate charge temp reduction and massive combustion chamber temp cooling. However, I still can't help but believe it's not the best approach (attempting to fight ever increasingly higher chamber temps by injecting more and more water even though the setup is still using the same, base fuel that's only efficacious in a colder and less brutal environment). From a certain perspective, it seems to make more sense instead to do two things: Create the same chamber cooling effects while bringing the base fuel's stability and "heat range" up to better match the hotter and more ferocious chamber environment we're trying to create.

It's kind of like the difference in approach between bringing cold air to the air filter (ala the cold air box) vs. taking the air filter to the cold air. By the way, in my experimentation with taking an air filter outside of the engine bay to the outside showed a drop of 40-45*F in cruising IAT's and no doubt helped with boost IAT's. The type of material used in the ducting, heat wrapping, and all that other jazz did absolutely nothing to increase that difference in temps.

I also am curious what kind of ignition hardware is required for such large amounts of water injection like this and whether or not said requirements reach well past what's normally equipped on these cars.

Even as little as 100cc of water, assuming 100% of it hits the combustion chamber and isn't converted into steam prior, has the cooling BTUs (due to its unparalleled latent heat) equivalent to that of over 650cc/min of gasoline when being used strictly as a chamber coolant! It's 650% as efficient as gasoline as a chamber coolant! That's undeniably incredible. However, other than the possibility of it occurring on a pre-turbo setup, I can't see water being a big help with IAT's especially on an intercooled setup. To make use of its high latent heat, the charge temps would have to be very, very high; high enough past the point where, with a pump fuel setup, knock begins to occur. That's why I think it's better served at the throttle where more of it can reach the chamber in pure form and do its job there.

The argument I draw from the questions above are why I am philosophically-speaking a fan of post-turbo water injection even though I don't dismiss the obvious benefits of pre-turbo injection. In my view, when a powerplant is using an intercooler alongside an air filter setup whose air source is from the ambient atmosphere and not the engine bay, I can see how a post-turbo water injection would be a powerful addition when running an all pump-gas setup. As shown, even a few hundred cc/min of injection, which is pretty easy to pull off post-turbo with a pump setup running high pressure, will do a gigantic amount of chamber cooling, will stave off heat-related knock, and will enable the ability to run somewhat leaner mixtures. It seems like the "cherry on top" of a typical, tuned pump gas setup when we want reliability, even being sprayed in a static amount. Water's not corrosive, cheap, and doesn't require extensive hardware to make safely work.

One side note.

The real reason why the tuning trend over the past many years for pump gas-only street cars being tuned to ridiculously rich air/fuel mixtures of mid-high 10's:1 is because the gasoline is being used as a chamber coolant (a piss-poor one at that) to try and help prevent blowing itself up. Yes, we run fatter what's necessary for power under acceleration (arguably mid-high 12's:1) because it's easy to manipulate an EFI system to inject more fuel under load as a marginal way to stave off engine knock (and even then it doesn't yield a large margin). Let me re-phrase this for those that may not have gotten it: We put more gasoline in because we're trying to keep gasoline from exploding early. I contend the problem is pre-ignition due to auto-ignition (when a fuel ignites on its own due to the hot environment around it) in the compression stroke. I think because of pump gasoline's lower auto-ignition temperature and instability it's making engines blow up at relatively low boost levels. This causes the power stroke to start too early, create wild chamber pressures in the successive strokes, and kaboom the motor. The same thing happens when a nimrod of a "tuner" manually fires the spark plug too early. It also happens when running too hot The other whammy is real detonation: the possibility of being able to cause a second flamefront behind the one initiated by a timed spark event from running too damn rich a mixture (when the mixture is so rich and the chamber being so hot that a second stage of combustion starts on its own). Running excessively richer gasoline mixtures in a denser and denser chamber environment also challenges the ignition system. It's difficult to get much burning past low-mid 10's:1 on a gasoline setup unless the ignition hardware behind it is really powerful.

[Herblenny]

Part 2 of his rant..


On to alcohol.

Alcohol, on the other hand, is a fuel that burns and therefore lends itself more closely to the rules and practices of tuning. Depending upon which type of alcohol (ethyl vs. methyl), much more of it in volume is required compared to gasoline to create the same heat energy (Heating value in btu/lbs). For example, if running an all pump gasoline setup with even a 200cc/min replacement of gasoline with methyl alcohol, nearly 400cc/min of that alcohol would have to be used to produce the same heat energy and produce the same air/fuel ratio. Side note: This is also the reason, when fuel manufacturers swapped from MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether) as a fuel oxygenate over to ethanol up to 10% volumes, why some folks experienced suddenly running mild to moderately leaner air/fuel mixtures with nothing on the tune or hardware changed.

Other than consumption and alcohol's corrosivity (methyl alcohol in particular) which necessarily calls for strict hardware to be used in said injection system (teflon-cored, stainless steel braided lines w/ brass ends and not cheap nylon or rubber tubing for example), I think it carries multiple benefits over and above water:

-) Incredible charge coolant due to low flash temp; so much so that it's possible to run hot-air with big boost, therefore requiring less intake hardware and a shorter plumbing run
-) Even though only half as good as water, still a terrific chamber coolant
-) "Raises" the base fuel's chamber temperature tolerance due to it being a much more stable burning fuel over gasolines and having a higher "effective" octane rating
-) Much less change of knock due to high auto ignition temperature (almost 400*F above typical pump gasolines and about 200-300 over most leaded race gasolines)
-) Robust alcohol injection systems can inject massive amounts of alcohol, which enable the ability to run heavy ratios of gasoline to alcohol (80/20 and richer), therefore yielding the possibility of running a less hardware intensive fuel system (not needing to max out large injectors or run humongous fuel pumps)

One more advantage that alcohol has is this: it contains less carbon atoms than gasolines. Therefore, richer mixtures (in alcohol volume) can be run without flooding the motor and fouling out plugs. When one runs a gasoline to alcohol ratio like I've experimented with (70/30), where alcohol injection is at and over the 1500cc/min range, it's possible to run air/fuel mixtures in the 9's and experience none of the problems associated with that same mixture on an all gasoline setup. The benefit is this: the extra alcohol is used as a chamber coolant. We can throw even more cooling btu's in the mix while still producing power. It's no surprise folks like Howard Coleman run low 20lbs of boost with mixtures in the 10's:1 on gasoline/alcohol ratios around 80/20 to 75/25 and have zero knock. I've done the same thing at higher boost levels, without an intercooler, breaking all of the accepted "tuning rules", over and over and over again.

600cc/min of methyl alcohol injection is roughly equivalent to 300cc/min of water injection. It's got the cooling capacity of nearly 2000cc/min of gasoline. If you do the math, that's a lot of fuel injector.

Take a 680/1680 injector, large-shaft T4 turbo, street port setup. It can run about 25psi of boost on leaded race gasoline, aiming for a conservative 11.0:1 air/fuel mixture, at duty cycles around 90-95%. Total injector output is around 4200/4300cc/min. Removing one air/fuel mixture point (going from 11:1 to 12:1) would remove about 400cc/min of injection. Replace that 400cc/min with 800cc/min of alcohol to aim back to that 11:1 air/fuel mixture. Not only does that 9% replacement reduce the overall carbon being tossed into the motor (allowing it to realistically run a richer mixture without challenging the spark plugs), it's also increasing the cooling btu's of that 400cc/min (38lbs/hr at 5700btu's/hr) to 38500btu's/hr! That replacement of 400cc of gas with 800cc of methanol will cool 6.76 times better. It'll also make for a more stable fuel that burns colder as well as stretch out the maximum power output of the fuel system.


My experience over the last four years of messing with alcohol injection has shown me that alcohol is where its at. Again, I'm not trying to make another soon-to-be-closed thread that's devolved into Internet heroes fighting about "water vs. alcohol"; this is simply a subjective opinion based on observation. While I'm aware that there's a few folks that go for big boost with huge amounts of water injection (all of them pre-turbo, I think), I still like the idea of attacking the heat-related problems in this engine by pointing the guns at the base fuel and making that base fuel more stable and predictable (with alcohol) instead of trying to drown it in massive amounts of water. That's just me and so far that experience, plus the other beneficial effects of alcohol like being able to run a hot-air setup, have pointed me in that direction. Again, not trying to knock water; I like it for certain setups. I just see alcohol injection taking us further.

Those of us that've used alcohol extensively all conclude the same thing: The more alcohol, the better. The rotary loves it.

What's the overall goal here? We're cramming more and more air into the engine in an attempt to produce more power. What makes power? Density of charge. What comes with increase charge density via forced induction? Temperature. When pressure rises, temperature goes right along with it. We generate more pressure with our desire to run more boost and make more power. The high temperature is the negative byproduct of our efforts to run more boost. The rub is trying to keep this temperature within certain limits (depending primarily on the base fuel, spark plug temp heat range, and other hardware). I think the idea that some folks seems to draw glory from in running high boost on strictly pump gas is foolish as it reminds me of the idiot that stands at the end of the cliff, inching his tippy-toes ever closer to the edge, challenging himself on when he'll eventually fall off. This is where the magnificence of AI comes in and I think for the reliability factor on our engines we all ought to delve into it seriously; so seriously that we all consider it necessary in having a tuned street setup.

Barry? rx72c? Howard? Anybody else? Any thoughts?

B

Of course, this all sounds great, but I still have questions:

-) Even though we can calculate roughly the latent heat values and all that jazz, just how much is actually needed?
-) What's the best delivery method? Pre-turbo (definitely not for alcohol I'd say) or post-turbo?
-) Why is it, on my hot-air setup, the first version of it failed and knocked the motor like a kid feverishly shaking a can of marbles when I had the alcohol injection nozzles downstream at the throttle? Why did it magically work when I moved them way up-stream and staggered them apart (and therefore saw the dramatic drop in IAT's)? What's the difference between flashing in the intake pipe vs. the manifolds?

And on and on it goes...

[Herblenny]

Someone asked why his engine is apart.. he responded..

I cracked the upper dowel land on the back housing a while back. I was bouncing off the spark cut rev limiter in 2nd gear showing off to my wife, blowing flames out the back at night. Did it several times... then started smell oil.

B

I've heard he builds shitty engines :) But that's what I hear...

[burners]

Hi Peter


Hope you're doing well mate. We, the selected fuckwits miss you.

I'm not going to disrepect this forum with trawling out your history with our forum, but I will say you where given every chance, more chances then anyone else to fit in like everyone else.

Blame yourself, not us.


Love FDRX7


Is this guy fucking serious?
To fit in over there you need to have a signature quoting a post that isn't funny and makes no sense to anyone but you + have a bunch of shit in your sig a 3 year old would think is cool (crudely hand drawn MS paint picture of a dinosaur or something) and then go shitting in everyone's thread with stuff like "poor ATF in the flux capacitor and rev it to the redline, drift fast swirly woo hooo donuts.... trains".

[TitaniumTT]

Part 2 of his rant..

Thanks Phil, I need to read the 2nd half later becuase it's time to do some work on the FC if I wanna hit Limerock on Thurs but mainly becuase it's just what you said it is, a rant. There's a whole lotta theory in there and too much quessing and not enough actually testing. It seems from the few threads that I've read of his he does his testing by pulling apart engines that he's popped and trying to figure out what the hell went wrong.

I will say that after reading the first half of his rant that he has a few hundred bucks worth of sensors to install on his engine. Not to mention wtf is going on with getting a 45*f drop in AIT's by moving an air filter outside the engine bay? Sounds like his intercooler sucks balls. For fucks sake I can watch my pre-intercooler charge temps go from 70*F to 260*F while my AIT's will go from 70*F - 77*... while on the DYNO..... think about that.. My cruising AIT's are withen a few *'s of ambient. I mean really?!?! We actually made a few pulls back to back without the fan going and the only tipoff we got was my e-fan turned on becuase it usually doesn't.

While I like the potential of reducing AIT's that both water and alky have, I personally feel that on a street car, they're band-aids for improperly designed heat exchanger systems for oil, water, and ait systems. I designed my car from the grnd up to run cool, it actually runs too cold in the water and oil dept's for my liking. I MAY run alky on the FD just to bring the EGT's down becuase of the turbo I'm planning on using :suspect: but that's only after a lengthy discussion with a few engineers.

So, enough of my rant, but I will add that band-aids peel over time.....



Someone asked why his engine is apart.. he responded..



I've heard he builds shitty engines :) But that's what I hear...

I know of a ton of his engines that have popped but I've never disassembled any of them to be able to tell you how they are. I can give the names of a few to stay FAR FAR away from though. I'll tell you what his ports look like in a few weeks though.

[RETed]

I've heard he builds shitty engines :) But that's what I hear...

Oh, and I thought that was just a dirty rumor... ;)


-Ted

[Herblenny]

No... not a rumor. I've heard from several with hands on experience dealing with BDC. And these are not on the forums.

And his porting... I think some of the newbs goes ape shit over his mirror polished ports he post on the forums but we all know, that shit is just for looks that you can't even see. I mean this is the guy who used to have wooden motor mounts back in the days and think it would work :) And who used to tune car's and didn't even own his own datalogic... and steals other people's maps and load those to other people's car and charges 300+ dollars... And this isn't slandering... as this is all what I've heard from reputable people ;)

[Herblenny]

Talking about BDC...

Many of you know, I don't recommend BDC to anyone... because of his unprofessional behavior on 7club towards me.. Anyhow, this morning I get a message from a local guy I know about what he said about me on local forum..

So, I thought I share that and put my 2 cents in and let you all decide.. I know some of you will side with BDC and not going to understand my side.. which is totally fine with me. But I wanted to share both side of the story.

Just so you guys know who "Michael Moore" BDC is referring to.. He's a local scammer/racist whom I've distanced myself for years and recently he tried to come on RCC and when I found out, I've banned him. So, he goes on the local forum to bitch about me...


Hi Michael Moore,

The same thing happened to me except he evidently banned my email address ahead of time when the forum was initially made. I tried to register when it first started, as I was under the impression that it was Kevin's forum (nice guy, btw), but saw that I couldn't get on.

He's still mad at me for defending a guy on rx7club.com that he was insisting had ripped him off (the whole carbon fiber body parts' thing). I even spoke to him over the phone for a couple of hours. He'd offered me a booth at a DGRR event and then a day or two later called back and rescinded it. I gave him no satisfaction and blew it off. That was over 3 years ago.

He still posts bad things about me on his RotaryCarClub forum to this day. I hear about it often enough from folks.

He is a narcissist; probably manic. He's also a coward. He's interested in only one thing: himself and how he feels. He's trouble and I recommend folks avoid him.

B

Obviously he can't defend himself as he's been pre-banned from this site, but he's reading.. So, let me put things in perspective for those of you reading..

I am NOT a vendor... I organize an event for the rotary community and formed this forum with couple of rotary guys to help this community!
Brian "Dumbass" Cain (BDC) is a businessman who makes his living working on rotary cars. He calls himself a professional and I'm sure he surely know the consequence to his action. When I was being scammed by a guy I was helping out (Sonic7 aka Jason Evans.. who also skipped out on child support as his ex wife contacted me to tell me), BDC defended Jason Evans and called me "Internet Pitbull" and other names. BDC defended this scammer who ripped me off of over $1000 and over 1.5 years of my time. Me and BDC bickered and eventually the thread got shut down.

I asked BDC why didn't you contact me before saying all this BS. BDC acted like he never dealt with me nor knew how to contact me, but he called me to get some parts from me about 2 months prior to calling me names. He could of easily called me and gotten my story before he bashed me on the public forum. I mean, I wasn't some newb that just join the forum.. Either case, several months later, I've gotten several calls from fellow rotorheads stating that I should give BDC a chance. So, to be a bigger man, I've called him up, explained who I was and my situation, and I asked him, "after hearing my story, would you still side with the scammer?" He said, "Yes, my mind is made up from the beginning and I'm not changing". I was like, "So, you still think all was my fault?". He was like "Yes". This is after over 3 hours of conversation, explaining to him in various way to show that I was infact ripped off!!.. He than asked me if he could come to DGRR and set up a booth... At first I was like, "sure".... After I got off the phone, I was thinking to myself, why am I helping this guy??? I already knew he ripped off several people on tuning, building engines, etc..
He also sides with the scammer and why would I want to associate myself with this guy?? So, I called him up, asked him one more time, "Do you regret backing up the guy who screwed me, even after I just spend 3 hours explaining my situation?" He said, "No, I would do the same thing". I said, "So, you still think the same about me after all this talk?". He said, "yes". SO, I told him, "Well, if that's the case, good luck with your business.. because you just fucked with the wrong guy.... I gave you a chance and you don't want to take it, good luck!".

That's the true story.. Think what you like guys.... but I'm not going to recommend some jackass who makes his living through this community who can't admit fault.... Nor can't take the consequences of his action. I mean he has done similar things when a local guys engine blew.. He never admitted fault and acted like he's god. Now this dumbass partnering up with the local scammer/known racist who got pissed off because I banned him on this site should tell you, Brian "Dumbass" Cain is NO good!!!

People need to understand the consequences when you open your mouth.. This is my hobby not business... If it was my business, I wouldn't be going around the internet BULL SHITTING and bad mouthing people who could potentially feed my mouth!! I've learned this lesson early on.. Concentrate on your business, Brian "Dumbass" Cain!!! If you want your business to succeed, shut your "A"hole, shut down your computer, and go spend your time building good engines and don't say shit about others. I have nothing to loose!!! why, because this is my hobby and I'm the one who actually spend money!! You know who I could be?? YOUR CUSTOMER!!! I would of gladly spent money on you if I thought you did a good job or were a professional businessman.. which you are NEITHER! Learn who you fuck with next time :)

By the way, BDC is NOT recommended on RCC!!

[Herblenny]

Read More about BDC, aka Brian D. Cain, BDC Motorsports, Here:

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=11528

[burners]

burners, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

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[Herblenny]

In order to access the link in lounge, you need to have certain number of posts.. I think 20-25?

[Prodigy]

20 posts to access the lounge..

Any more info on the car... or progression of fixing it...


J.

[RXTASY]

WOW!
A few years ago, me and another guy paid BDC to come to Idaho and tune our cars.
To make a long story short, he blew both of them up on the dyno!
I could see maybe blowing one of them up by mistake, but he blew up 100% of the cars he tried to tune!
I could have done that on my own for FREE!
I hate bagging on people, but now it all makes sense.