Body rust and surface rust and how to remove it?

[Rotary#10]

Im restoring a 90 gtus and it has rust in various locations around the body and on the surface. I'd like to hear what the folks of RRC recommend at how to remove it or neutralize it. I know this car has body damage. I plan on painting this car sometime next month if Junpower isn't busy. And of course getting the damage fixed. I will be helping him with the prep and body work and he does the paint.
The pics are in my album at http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...hp?albumid=147
What can I do ?

[13bboy]

dosent sound like u should b tryn 2 restore a car if u dont even kno how 2 repair rust

[vex]

With FIRE!


^It sounds like you shouldn't be on a computer if you type like that.

Honestly it depends on various things. If the rust is deeper than surface rust, then you are more than likely going to have to cut out the affected panel, and weld in a new panel. If it's surface rust with no pitting (pitting indicates that the damage is extremely severe and that you will need to sand the metal away or sand/particle blast the area before filling it) then you can get away with a wire brush and removing the surface rust, cleaning the affected area, and finally filling and priming the area with rust conversion primer.

[13bboy]

just being honest, u kno what i was sayn ill spell how ever tha hell i want

[vex]

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=10654

[Rotary#10]

Thank you vex. I have about 80% surface rust.

[TitaniumTT]

^It sounds like you shouldn't be on a computer if you type like that.

Agreed.

Honestly it depends on various things. If the rust is deeper than surface rust, then you are more than likely going to have to cut out the affected panel, and weld in a new panel. If it's surface rust with no pitting (pitting indicates that the damage is extremely severe and that you will need to sand the metal away or sand/particle blast the area before filling it) then you can get away with a wire brush and removing the surface rust, cleaning the affected area, and finally filling and priming the area with rust conversion primer.

Again, agreed with the exception of the piting. If it's pitted and weakened I'd cut it out and replace it. If it's minor I would sand it all down with a contor DA pad. Hit it with some rust converter and then resand it so that the converter is only in the pits. Prime it with a good epoxy primer and then get into it with the filler/glaze.

just being honest, u kno what i was sayn ill spell how ever tha hell i want

Go right ahead. You just lost the repect of a bunch if not 99% of the members here and classified yourself as exactely what your SN is, a little boy.

Thank you vex. I have about 80% surface rust.

Take a look at my REBuild thread. I have a bunch of images in there on severe rot repair. All cutting and replacement. I didn't have and surface rust. They were all gaping holes unfortunately

[13bboy]

was not tryn 2 offend, im sorry if it was taken that way just sayn what i thaught, (little boy) haha thats funny u dont even kno me

[Max777]

Can;t believe no one's mentioned it yet but POR15 is a good product if you need to treat rusty spots on the car. Remove as much of the rust as you can, then treat the area with a naval jelly or some other sort of surface prep chemical, and then go over it with POR-15.

I finally got the chance to actually use it on our college's autocross VW GTI build, and the product is amazing, and tough as hell to boot.

EDIT: Now, we only used it for the underbody/ interior and I dont know how smooth you can get it for body panels because we brushed it on.

[vex]

just being honest, u kno what i was sayn ill spell how ever tha hell i want

And you're now on my ignore list.

[TitaniumTT]

Can;t believe no one's mentioned it yet but POR15 is a good product if you need to treat rusty spots on the car. Remove as much of the rust as you can, then treat the area with a naval jelly or some other sort of surface prep chemical, and then go over it with POR-15.

I finally got the chance to actually use it on our college's autocross VW GTI build, and the product is amazing, and tough as hell to boot.

EDIT: Now, we only used it for the underbody/ interior and I dont know how smooth you can get it for body panels because we brushed it on.

Naval jelly is useless. Waste of time and good coin. I personally prefer mechanical methods to removing rust.

I can't say anything about POR products be use I've never used them. I will say that out of the pros and old timers that I've ever dealt with, none of them have ever reccomended any of their products for anything. So I take that and with the knowledge that everyone on the internetz thinks its the cats meow lead me to personally believe that POR is nothing more than internetz, noobie nutswinging hype. But that's just an opinion of someone that's never used it, not intends to, buhas never once had it eecomended to me or even heard of it outside the interwebs

[TitaniumTT]

Oh yeah, you don't want paint to be "tough as nails" or "thick as hell," it lends itself to chipping and then you're back to square one

[Max777]

But that's exactly what I meant, it is highly chip resistant and durable.

[My5ABaby]

dosent sound like u should b tryn 2 restore a car if u dont even kno how 2 repair rust

That would be an excellent point if humans were born knowing everything necessary to restore a car. Since we are unfortunately not we have to learn somehow.

As a side note, you're on my idiot list. If you decide to mature in numerous ways I shall remove you from tHe list.

[13bboy]

what i should of said is i have repaired a lot of rust damage and i know it can b a prick, so depending on the extent of the damage if ur not sure/confident it could b a good idea 2 have it done professionally, i apologize for my blunt and thaughtless remark

[firzen]

Depends on the rust, what kind of tools you have available, and how much TLC you're willing to dump into a 20yr old car.

From the pics, it looks pretty bad. I'm going to say it's probably going to cost you a lot to restore it to a show-quality condition without it falling apart. Almost to the point I'd say it's not worth the effort- but restoration is a fun challenge, no?

Good luck.

[TitaniumTT]

what i should of said is i have repaired a lot of rust damage and i know it can b a prick, so depending on the extent of the damage if ur not sure/confident it could b a good idea 2 have it done professionally, i apologize for my blunt and thaughtless remark

You don't get it. It wasn't the comment, it's the complete lack of intelligence, maturity an thaught that ur usi whan u typ like dat u think its fine an ur tryin 2 be cool, but u aint.

Depends on the rust, what kind of tools you have available, and how much TLC you're willing to dump into a 20yr old car.

From the pics, it looks pretty bad. I'm going to say it's probably going to cost you a lot to restore it to a show-quality condition without it falling apart. Almost to the point I'd say it's not worth the effort- but restoration is a fun challenge, no?

Good luck.

Alot of it looks like surface rust to me and not that bad at all. I'm more worried about the damage behind the drivers door. That is going to be a BITCH to get strait. It's fun, and it's going to be time consuming but in the end if done properly, it's going to be rewarding. Rust repair isn't all that expensive from a materials standpoint. It is costly from a time standpoint. But if you're looking for a show quality car, the chances of finding an FC in that condition are slim to none. So even if he got a new shell, he would still be looking at the very real possibility of paint/bodywork.

[Rotary#10]

Yes it is alot of work. I have the time to do it. I also have a local body repairman / rx7 guru in my area. Who is going to help me and show me how its done. Im confident that we can get it done. I resently ordered a stud welder for him to pull out that damage. Im just buying the materials, a few of the tools and he and I are going to do the rest. I'll post pics once we get everything in this month hopefully. And paint it in June. Well start pulling out the damage on the drivers side next week or so. Thanks for the imput folks.

[13bboy]

for starters im not tryn 2 b cool its easyer, u kno exaclty what im saying, ur havn a bitch 4 no good reason, and u cant comment on my intellligence because u dont even know me, if u were 2 have a decent conversation with me im sure u would think otherwise

[djmtsu]

On my old Miata, I had rust at the lower rockers where the top drains get clogged, and the water sits there and rots. One side had about a quarter size hole, the other was a little larger.

Now, this is kind of a ghetto fix, but it worked great, and was STRONG.

We stripped the paint, wire wheeled all the rust we could see, took out the weak stuff. Since this was a budget build, we went the easiest route. Fiberglass!

First, covered the holes with body mesh stuff, then went to town with fiberglass. Once that was done, I sanded it smooth. Then covered it with Bondo, and sanded and shaped it smooth. Covered it with some primer, then we painted the entire car.

I accidentally jacked it up at one of the spots, and it didn't even budge. Win!

(I am sure Brian or Joe will scold me know)

[TitaniumTT]

On my old Miata, I had rust at the lower rockers where the top drains get clogged, and the water sits there and rots. One side had about a quarter size hole, the other was a little larger.

Now, this is kind of a ghetto fix, but it worked great, and was STRONG.

We stripped the paint, wire wheeled all the rust we could see, took out the weak stuff. Since this was a budget build, we went the easiest route. Fiberglass!

First, covered the holes with body mesh stuff, then went to town with fiberglass. Once that was done, I sanded it smooth. Then covered it with Bondo, and sanded and shaped it smooth. Covered it with some primer, then we painted the entire car.

I accidentally jacked it up at one of the spots, and it didn't even budge. Win!

(I am sure Brian or Joe will scold me know)

Scold you?? Nah, I'm going to douse you in gasoline and have you stand behind Dennis' car and have him shoot fireballs at you :rofl:

The problem with fiberglass is over time it will seperate from the metal. It just won't bond properly. If you sandwiched the metal between two layers of 'glass, then it would hold more, but in the end, welding in new steel is definately the way to go. Budgets and time constraints often win out in the end though soooooooooo yeah.

for starters im not tryn 2 b cool its easyer, u kno exaclty what im saying, ur havn a bitch 4 no good reason, and u cant comment on my intellligence because u dont even know me, if u were 2 have a decent conversation with me im sure u would think otherwise

It might be EASIER for you to type it, but the rest of us with a functioning educated brain, it causes us pain to read it. I fucking hate when people do that. Would you compose an email to your boss that way?
I've never had to use the ignore fuction before in my life regardless of the level of stupidity that I found on the evil forum, but you, I cannot stand your posts and in the effort of saving as many of my personal brain cells as possible, you're going on the ignore list. I feel a little stupider every time I read one of your posts.

Goodbye

[MazdaMike]

Some people are all like ahhhh "Cut the rust out." Or someone else will say "Sandblast it, then refinish." Or Someone else will say "Bomb the rust with a convertor, and refinish."

Its usually just answers based on personal opinion and experience.
Personally if its just surface rust, I'd just sandblast it, grind it and refinish with bondo. If its more extensive just cut out and replace the area. Those are the sure fire ways of defeating rust. Now If you just grind it and refinish it will surely come back and I've seen it many times.

[firzen]

^ I agree with Mike. Don't just grind and refinish.

@TT: OK, it's cheap for you since you have all the tools available already. :001_005: I was under the assumption he was starting from scratch.

It looks like there's probably a lot under the paint which means it could be very serious. Then again, it also might be just surface stuff like what TT said.

I lean towards the sandblasting route if there's no chunks of stuff falling off or stuff rusted out of shape. It has treated me very well although you might find it troublesome.

Good luck.

[vex]

for starters im not tryn 2 b cool its easyer, u kno exaclty what im saying, ur havn a bitch 4 no good reason, and u cant comment on my intellligence because u dont even know me, if u were 2 have a decent conversation with me im sure u would think otherwise
Grammar, spelling, and other basic English skills reflect intelligence. Let me help you so we can take you seriously; your sentences (yes, you should have more than one) should have looked more like this:
[Insert object of your attention, in this case TTT], for starters I'm not trying to be cool. It's easier [to type out the words completely and accurately, like this]. I believe you know what I mean when I type out the words correctly instead of having to guess at what I was trying to say with a jumble of misspelled words, random letters, and digits that don't belong in the word or sentence for that matter. You're praising me for using proper grammar and spelling of the English language (both your native tongue as well as my own); I thank you, but honestly it's not needed. It's just helpful in proper communication on a public forum, such as this. I thank you TTT for having this decent conversation with me and hope both you and I may have it again.

Here's a challenge for you to prove your intelligence to us: Solves Stoke's equation for a simple intake manifold: 1 inlet, 4 outlets. You will need to use both uniform flow, sources and sinks, to generate your result.

If that proves too difficult for you, you can always do this instead:

Type out your words properly and use the common standard for the English language to verify you have enough intelligence to use a computer.

[13bboy]

i completely understand vex, but titaniumtt could have said something politely before attacking my intelligence, so i kept going with it, he's just pathetic