My RX7SP build up

[RICE RACING]

Bitches love fisting

[RICE RACING]

Here is "finished" engine bay pics :)


http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gallery/rice/img1335ricesp2-s.jpg

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum/gallery/rice/img1336ricesp2-s.jpg

[RICE RACING]

I have a ram air sealed air box for my turbo inlet, there is a carbon duct going down into the nose cone main entry that feeds the air box, I should fit up a pressure sensor there and do some high speed tests.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4515/img1517smb.jpg

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/7213/img1525smb.jpg

Well Finally ! Tested & Finished :) *taken from another forum I posted up details, for reference this is a list of other cars at bottom of this page that I test to give relative performance in mild state of tune. Could will go even faster on same boost as at end of third gear it (last 5kph) got into higher EGT and the ECU increased the fueling (making engine too rich 10.6:1) to cool the EGT down (cost ~20rwkw in upper revs power), I have since redone the table to allow a higher EGT setting before automatic fuel enrichment will occur.

http://www.riceracing.com.au/vbox-iii-testing-tuning.htm

Logged the SP this morning and did some back pressure testing for SMB on the mid section street exhaust.

3rd gear 90-140 time of 3.11 seconds on 14.1psi boost pressure RR Water Injected,
Turbine speed 91068rpm
132kph = 0.443G < (10% more acceleration at same speed as ONE58 when I logged it at 12.2sec @ 118mph on street on 1.1bar boost on twins FMIC etc, driver only in car)
Turbine inlet pressure 12.0psi
Exhaust back pressure 2.63psi
6681rpm
11.36AFR
EGT 985deg C
Fuel pressure 64.98psi
Full boost = 3700rpm
Ambient temp 10.6deg C
Inlet manifold air temp on fast acting sensor = 32 deg C
need to do up the graphs, exhaust back pressure at 240rwkw on VBOX was 3.0psi @ 7500rpm (which I would class as quite good for 2 mufflers and a catalytic converter & plumb back waste gate set up).

[RICE RACING]

Bitches love fisting

[RICE RACING]

Here is the Kerb Weight of my RX7 SP (totally full fuel tank, all fluids, tools, spare tire etc, ready to run). My car has a 100+liter carbon fuel tank (you can see it just poking out the bottom left rear of the car) :smile:

2826Lb or ~1282kg as pictured.

(minus spare tire, tools, jack etc = 1264kg)

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9326/img1625kerbweight.jpg

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5710/img1626kerbweight.jpg

[RICE RACING]

This may be of interest to some people, I still like to look at spark plugs after a long drive or extended use at a new setting on the engine parameters generally half a dozen full throttle applications is enough to establish what is happening via colors etc.

For those not familiar with rotary engines: (leading plug holes have a large opening to the combustion chamber and trailing plug holes have a smaller shielded hole) I use this visual check + EGT reading to balance any differences in the fuel air balance.
FL = front leading spark plug
FT = front trailing spark plug
RL = rear leading spark plug
RT = rear trailing spark plug
NGK 10 heat range plugs are 2000km old, run a 0.020" gap, Optimax Shell 98 Ron fuel, Mobil 1 engine oil (oil injected into motor), and Sthil 2 stroke premix at 180:1 mixed in with fuel also
10.9:1 AFR with 1.20kg/cm boost and 500cc Water Methanol at 50/50 mix, engine operating temp is 77~79 deg C

In case anyone is bored! Look On !!!
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachments/newbie-forum/34364d1089770400-spark-plug-color-missngk.jpg

Front Rotor
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/147/img1633plugsreading.jpg


Rear Rotor
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/820/img1635plugsreading.jpg

[05rex8]

impressive!

[djmtsu]

Wow!

[sk8world]

"very" nice work!!!!!!! Some of the best forsure.

[RICE RACING]

Thanks for the nice words, its a pleasure to share this on overseas forums v's the rubbish in Australia (every second person here is a hater, especially in forum world).

I did what my limited skills and experience would allow, I am happy with the way it turned out and as I'm sure all of you can relate the best bit is driving her again and feeling the rotary power.
:driving:

I'll keep updating when I have more stuff to share :beatdeadhorse5:

[scotty305]

Great thread and nice photos.

It's not completely clear from some of the photos, are you measuring exhaust backpressure at each of the runners, or pressure pre- and post-turbo? Also, is that a turbine speed sensor installed in the compressor housing?

[RICE RACING]

Great thread and nice photos.

It's not completely clear from some of the photos, are you measuring exhaust backpressure at each of the runners, or pressure pre- and post-turbo? Also, is that a turbine speed sensor installed in the compressor housing?

Turbine inlet and Turbine outlet pressure are measured, EGT is measured on each rotor.

Turbine speed sensor is in compressor housing, correct.

[RICE RACING]

Bitches love fisting

[Herblenny]

Impressive..

I am intrigued by this.. Can you tell us bit more about why this type of set up?

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/4082/cop3.jpg

[sk8world]

Phil, Not sure if you are interested in something he is doing specific but if its just the lack of wires with a coil on each plug. There was a few doing this last year on the other forum after seeing GM start this,

[RICE RACING]

Impressive..

I am intrigued by this.. Can you tell us bit more about why this type of set up?

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/4082/cop3.jpg

Overall? I wanted single turbo as its more reliable than twins. All the other stuff to do with data collection was for my own development stuff (I must put up the VBOX equipment and logs).

The ignition system set up was a thing I wanted to try myself (I currently do not run this due to a compatible issue with the ECU type I run and CDI ign systems so at the moment the trusty HKS DLI is installed with stock coils/wires etc). The idea is to have massive spark current/voltage and limited RFI (which I achieved) however CDI systems do not work as well as inductive at light loads and low rpm *even with multi spark* (HKS is superior), at the moment with my 50/50 water to methanol mix at 500cc/min the HKS DLI works perfectly and the car runs better on this ign than the race CDI spec set up so that is why I changed back from my expensive time consuming custom CDI coil on plug set up. *This pictured system does though fire a much stronger water only injection set up at almost double the flow rate* but due to my Link ECU not working with it (any similar full CDI system, tested with Motec, M&W, Dynatek) on the activation of a rev limiter or boost limiter its unsafe to run in all conditions.

All the other system parts IC set up, carbon air box etc are factory SP items on this very race car so wanted to retain the stock look of the car. My performance goal with it was to match a Ferrari F40. Looking to obtain ~500bhp *engine power* and a responsive engine to get to do 128 to 130mph trap speed in the 400m or 1/4 mile measurement with normal road tires (no quasi drag stuff needing burn outs etc etc).

She is set up as a road race car as you would call it.

Hope this gives a general over view.

Peter

[Force13b]

All these great projects makes me not want to post up my car lol. That is a very unique coil system. All your stuff looks great.

[EJayCe996]

I spy jizz on the ohlins! :rofl:

[Herblenny]

Peter Thanks for the info.

I followed your water injection for awhile back when. How are things going these days with that? Are you still spraying pre-turbo? Sorry.. I sometimes don't really everything... so my appologies if you posted that earlier.

[RICE RACING]

Peter Thanks for the info.

I followed your water injection for awhile back when. How are things going these days with that? Are you still spraying pre-turbo? Sorry.. I sometimes don't really everything... so my appologies if you posted that earlier.

That's ok its only the first pic in my thread :beatdeadhorse5: hahaha

^ I am still doing the same thing with my basic system, but in this version driving the high speed valve of a PWM circuit on my ECU to control the flow at medium engine speeds and varying map pressures (but its the same I offer in all my kits).

I love it (water injection) I really don't like rotaries that have no form of this stuff as they have proven to me to be very fragile and not durable at all (people have different standards in regards to that so its all relative). But yes WI all the way :icon_tup:

[dudemaaan]

As always very nice work Peter. Wish I had the time and funds to experiment with all sorts of new things. I have so many interests in life it's impossible to devote enough time to learn everything!

[RICE RACING]

Tested the compression of the engine after 1800km and its good for a rotary at around ~122psi @ 250rpm (front and rear rotor same) cranking speed. Will keep an eye over this long term.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9986/img1624comp1800kmfr.jpg

I changed the porting specification (compared to pictures posted, ports are stock) to give the engine much more mid range power and not concentrate on top end power so much, it is quite fast on road despite relative lower levels of peak power. I am projecting it will have a honest 480bhp to 500bhp (at the higher 1.4 boost setting) but will see what happens when I get around to testing this.

[Gabriel82]

wow my eyes hurt from the bad ass pictures you posted up nice FD dude NICE!

[sk8world]

So am I wrong or isnt this motor toast? Sad to here.

[Barry Bordes]

Peter,

Your setup is the best I have seen. Your idea of making an all around super car the way Mazda would have made it (if they thought they could still sell it) is right on the money.

Rebuild that engine and keep going ahead.

I always say, "Who better to have an engine failure than someone who can rebuild it easily and learn from the failure what new parts or proceedures to use or avoid in the future."

Barry

[lh6601]

Oh god yes.

[RICE RACING]

Peter,

Your setup is the best I have seen. Your idea of making an all around super car the way Mazda would have made it (if they thought they could still sell it) is right on the money.

Rebuild that engine and keep going ahead.

I always say, "Who better to have an engine failure than someone who can rebuild it easily and learn from the failure what new parts or proceedures to use or avoid in the future."

Barry

Been a while since I have posted here, thanks so much for the kind comments :icon_tup:

I have been running my new set up for around 76 hours (as recorded on the ECU) covered about 4500km and its been good. This second half of the year I have been concentrating on other things but plan to put a Race Brake set up on the car and run a little more turbo boost pressure (around 22psi) I have it on 18.5psi for around 40 hours use and have proven to myself (lol) that it is very reliable at this setting (~440bhp engine power). I have done in street mode (0-100kmh in 4.40 seconds) 12.42 seconds @ 122mph for 1320ft test (no roll out) when the car was at 1380kg (3042lb) weight (with 100lt fuel and driver).

Not sure if people here are interested? but I have dozens of VBOX power data logs showing things like turbine pressure, turbo speed, boost pressure, rear wheel power output, fuel pressure etc etc.

p.s. I need to ad the original engine was never "toast" despite what you may read on hater forums :rofl: I changed out the motor for a different specification of port & seal product to my own development. Any pics you may see or apparent correspondence quoted/attributed to me is just 2nd, 3rd hand doctored rumor from (I must add) well documented and proven trolls and haters. It is a shame some people have nothing better to do with their time :rofl:

[RICE RACING]

Here is one graph, I think I posted one from earlier testing on about 14psi boost? this is the current level which I wanted to do long term durability testing on (not a few track days followed by hidden rebuilds like some people....). I covered over the 50 hours I wanted to do and also tested in very adverse weather conditions (up to 38 deg C, and including heat soak tests then re running at full power settings). It passed all of this perfectly, I had to change allot of specifications for water injection rate, spark advance, and even things like plug gap specifications to cover all operating conditions and environments. Next step is to increase the boost level and do another durability test of around 50 hours (combined street and max output testing, generally equates to about 5000km running).

This is the performance so far on my standard 90-140kmh test.
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8042/90140275seconds.jpg

For the next lot of work I need to take out the open circuit EGT probes which only lasted around 3000km before they went on holiday. Am getting some bespoke ones made (to my specifications) that are more turbo rotary compatible long term while still being fast in response as I require.

Forgot to add from the last posted compression (post #22) test near the top of the page, engine compression now after the near 76+ hours of running is:
Fr
121,123,121
Rr
117,116,114
Not too bad given the high duty running and constant boost setting of 18.5psi now

Here is some pics of me taking RICESP to a local test track a few days ago, did some more traction control development testing and WI hardware tests...

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8291/img1771economytowing.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8809/img1772economytowing.jpg

[Barry Bordes]

Peter from your data the turbine pressure (17.1psi) is very close to the boost pressure (17.7psi). Is this what you normally find, within a pound difference?

Also your AFRs in the mid -11s at 17 psi is leaner than I would have thought. My EGTs are so high (1000°C) that I have been adding extra fuel trying to cool the temps.

Barry

[RICE RACING]

Peter from your data the turbine pressure (17.1psi) is very close to the boost pressure (17.7psi). Is this what you normally find, within a pound difference?

Also your AFRs in the mid -11s at 17 psi is leaner than I would have thought. My EGTs are so high (1000°C) that I have been adding extra fuel trying to cool the temps.

Barry

Hi Mate,

I have done allot of work on the mixture settings to make good power on that ~1.2kg/cm to 1.3kg/cm boost level, instead of typing it all out here you can have a read of all the tests on Aquamists site > http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1590&page=10 (spans a few pages back from here).

For the Exhaust manifold pressure to inlet manifold pressure, I currently am at 18.5 to 19 psi inlet boost pressure and the exhaust manifold pressure at 7000rpm in 4th (~125mph) gear is exactly 17.5psi, and this is with ~4.2 psi exhaust system pressure.

*At full boost pressure* The AFR on average is 11.3:1 with the current WI setting, it only goes towards 11.4:1 at revs past 7400rpm to stop the power from falling off where I need to hold rpm to say 8300rpm to save making a gear change be it on a straight or hold out 5th gear for 200+mph top speed as my car is geared for too :). Lower boost pressures (0.5bar to near 1.0bar) the AFR is around ~12.0:1 setting (more so because any more excess fuel is not required, especially with water injection or even without) Anything with more excess fuel really takes away allot of power. My EGT was always around 980 deg C or so with the correct ign timing, this set fuel mixture, and WI rate. Anything outside of these settings results in lower power, too high an EGT, misfire, or and less measured performance (< too over cooled *fuel or combination of fuel and water*, or not enough ignition advance especially) in my standard 90-140kmh testing I do.

Looking towards doing the next level of tests (will pick around 22psi range or 1.5bar gauge boost pressure) and will be *I think* more than happy with that, should be a good compromise between pretty high power level and long term durability, my goal is Ferrari F40 type performance (while still having a catalyst/quiet exhaust and baby bottom smooth motor combination) as you can read in my threads, I am there so far as the USA spec F40 is but a small margin off the European version, another ~40bhp should cover it :)

My aim: is to do around 127 to 128mph in a standard 400m test on the road in a full road set up, and 0-100kmh range in sub 4 seconds. (60-130mph in about 8 second range) on my set up ~22psi should yield this from where it is now. Should have a honest 480bhp (same as Ferrari F40), not much in this day an age I know, but then again how many narrow power band 500rwhp cars are about that cant do any of these actual performance measures in road trim on an actual normal road?....... sure you can bolt on slicks, drag radials, semi slicks etc, flat shift it, smash out the windows to save weight, run jet plane loud exhaust, open waste gates, alcohols fuel systems or leaded race fuels, etc etc but its not a real street car then (please take no offense drag type runners or people with powerful cars).

For people who might be interested in more on factual testing of road cars, power (various measures, engine and rwhp of different systems), actual measured weight: I started this "tested" kerb weight thread and analysis of cars performance to the power they claim to have using well know accepted formula. Its a fair read if your struggling to stimulate your senses with internet posts that are not porn related lol http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=185387&hilit=kerb+weight&start=80

[Barry Bordes]

Peter, thanks for the links.

Very interesting. A massive amount of work went into your reports.

Barry

[RICE RACING]

Thanks Barry,

I am looking forward to doing more when I get around to it :beatdeadhorse5:

[Mazdabater]

She is a gorgeous car rice. I took some photos of it at superlap. Was looking for you to introduce myself but everytime I walked past you weren't near the car.

[project86]

VERY NICE BUILD! Pics are impressive and your car is clean:icon_tup:

I think we have a second TitaniumTT on our hands .......:suspect:

[RICE RACING]

Thanks everyone :001_005:

I enjoy using my digital SLR as much as doing all of my own work. Being able to make stuff I can thank my father for, he is the real craftsman in the family :icon_tup: *inherited a small portion of his massive skill*



http://www.sambarcustomknives.com/4.JPG

http://www.sambarcustomknives.com/index.htm

http://www.sambarcustomknives.com/IMG_0422L.JPG

[JerryLH3]

The craftsmanship on your car is unbelievably exquisite. Awesome job.

[RICE RACING]

Action shot

http://www.riceracing.com.au/Photos/ricesp1.jpg
http://www.riceracing.com.au/RICE%20CARD.JPG
http://www.riceracing.com.au/Photos/RICESP/RiceSP5.jpg

[Max777]

car aside....

damascus blade.. is it real? If so, send me a pm.

[RICE RACING]

car aside....

damascus blade.. is it real? If so, send me a pm.

Yes mate, full damascus (blade, lock back, blosters, and even spring too). Dad makes some unbelievable stuff, that one there is full take down version he designed, full precision bush bearings in all pivots, all custom hand made.

His E-Mail is sambarknives@ozemail.com.au, I listed all of his current knives in stock http://www.sambarcustomknives.com/index.htm if you are interested you can send him an E-Mail of me peter@riceracing.com.au and either of us can help you out :seeya:

[RICE RACING]

Been a while since I posted on my baby :)

Finally had some time to do some more detail work and fix up things that I wanted too since the first time putting all of this together a year ago. Made some modifications to the Turbocharger specification, water cooling lines, exhaust system, oil breather set up, EGT sensors, & detailed insulation for various oil/water/fuel and other parts.

Small specification increase in total power to ~500bhp (v's the ~430 to 440bhp I have run for over a year). Will take some pictures and maybe even post up a test report or two soon.

[Herblenny]

COOL! Can't wait to see some updated stuff!

[RICE RACING]

COOL! Can't wait to see some updated stuff!

Want to show the true performance figures too :driving: won't be long :icon_tup: when I do I'll list it up against some other fancy super/sports cars that have been tested with VBOX equipment and put it up as a comparison :)

[benlewisMAV]

Nice knives! :D oh and the FD is pretty sweet too... ;)

[RICE RACING]

Just finished a major (for me) upgrade of my baby :)

Changed the turbocharger specifications, water cooling circuits, Turbine outlet exit, line insulation & placement (oil water and re routing to the letter of "ideal installation" which made a notable/distinct difference for the better), New EGT probes too, and new braking system! Did a service today as well, will take some pics and post them soon.

The thing is just TITS , my dream car.

[RICE RACING]

Drove her today :) its sweeter than a fat chic molesting a bucket of KFC!

louder with new turbo (at cruise), runs better, cooler, fixed the hot start "clicking" *boiling near thermostat* due to wrong water line mountings in first install :o21:
New EGT probes are sweet too. Cleaned some items and reworked a few bits I was not happy with and it came up pretty good


:party:


http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6884/img2153matt.jpg

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/8779/img2156matt.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4882/img2149matt.jpg

[Herblenny]

Very nice!!

[RICE RACING]

Thanks mate :)

I also put on a new leading coil and some NGK plug wires :auto:
It's just perfect now :willy_nilly: love the set up and all the hard work I put into it :fawk:

Reduced the EGT by over 100deg C :reddevil: :coolgleamA:

Still bedding in the new brake rotors and pads so did not go spastic on testing it yet (cause you do have to stop in a hurry !) but its making more power at lower boost and lower rpm than the first iteration of the set up which is a nice thing to see... needed some fine tuning with the new turbocharger (more injector opening to give same AFR on smaller turbo) :conehead:

Will hook up the VBOX3i and do a full ANALysis of it in net couple of weeks
It sounds gay but I just like looking at it as much as starting it up and listening to the sweet rotary noise (let alone the driving!) Mazda's are the best :auto:

[RICE RACING]

Here is some preliminary information comparing two different specification (turbine section) Turbochargers.

1.00A/R Garrett T04Z (from circuit test)
RRWEP110 = 3 turns
266 rwkw @ 6950 rpm AFR 11.35:1
Boost 18.45 psi
Turbine inlet pressure 17.1 psi
Exhaust pressure 4.06 psi
Turbo speed 101803 rpm
90kmh-140kmh = 3.05 seconds
100kmh-200kmh = 8.20 seconds
EGT = failed probe after 35 hours (was around 1000 or so at lower boost and power)

modified turbine specification (today run)
RRWEP110 = 4 turns
268 rwkw @ 7250 rpm AFR 11.0:1 (1.7 degrees less timing)
Boost 16.72 psi
Turbine inlet pressure 14.43 psi
Exhaust pressure 4.03 psi
Turbo speed 101000 rpm
90kmh-140kmh = 3.25 seconds (10% incline rose 9m in 100m of test) *minus the incline these times are net equal from my experience*
EGT Fr 875 deg C
EGT Rr 885 deg C


I wanted to be careful so I richened up the car and also took a few percent off the timing, the fueling curve is not optimized like it was on the smaller turbo, I have refined the mapping and also have reset the boost controller so it can learn the pattern of the new turbo from scratch then it will on a flat road perform better in like conditions to the 1.00A/R set up. Car has more top end pull as is and when the boost learns the loss down low will be marginal.

You can see from the figures, that the Exhaust pressure *indicator of mass flow* is near identical for them both so this is one of my many cross checks to make sure no spurious figures are around, also the Turbine RPM is basically the same as well though this turbo has an aero nut V’s the other which when rebuilt had only a normal hex nut (whatever if any difference that makes lol). The Turbine inlet pressure is definitely less as you can see from the figures and despite the non optimized tune up it makes the same power and at high rpm so the engine is less restricted by this exhaust housing (which matches with the theory 100%) the car on power is QUIETER with this set up *unless I am on drugs* my theory on this is because less mass flow is going out the waste gate pipe (more through the turbine) and this must be making the car less noisy at full power as all other things are exactly the same from last time.

I have reset the boost controller to learn 1.35kg/cm which equals 19.2psi, with the slightly tweaked set up (back to original timing) half turn less on RRWEP110 injector (down from 4 full turns) and tidied up spots in rpm range to give perfect AFR line (target 11.2:1 to 11.3:1 AFR) it *should* get to around 290rwkw on my VBOX measure (this is like 319rwkw on homo dynamics?)………….. anyway hope I have not bored you to death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I get around to driving it again will see what she does, should not be long as I have all the VBOX gear fitted in her so it’s just a matter of driving it. My best 90kmh to 140kmh time is 2.75 seconds at lower fuel load, flat road, (18psi average boost) and non heat soaked engine.

[TitaniumTT]

A few things here...
first, your brake booster is on the wrong side ;)

I like the datalogging... but it's getting tedious converting all these numbers to something that I can understand :rofl:

I'm curious as to why you think the EGT's went down by so much.

And that airbox is total sex.... LOVE it

[RICE RACING]

After consulting with BDC and HC my theory is as follows :dunno:

After consulting with myself my theory is as follows.......
Turbine expansion ratio is 1.55 on the new set up, it was 1.70 on the older set up thus 32% was "wasted" out the waste gate v's only 11% when running this turbo charger. The amount of heat held in by the smaller turbo is shown by the EGT and also the pressure (power level being equal) which I got as close as is possible in this test to demonstrate my point. Thus the EGT difference is down to the free flow nature of the turbine not retaining as much heat to make up for lower flow (energy balance to drive compressor is derived from heat, pressure, and flow rate) to keep the turbine spinning at the same rpm (to make the same power).

The car is also quieter on full throttle/power v's the other set up, due to a majority of the gas needing to go through the turbine, nice side effect :hurray:

Yeah the air box and lots of stuff in the bay is SEX, I spent so much time making allot of it, its nice to sit back and just stare at it :117:

[RICE RACING]

More "box" for you :smilielol5:

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1052/img2150box.jpg

It's a **** :smash: to work on, as everything goes on in a certain order, and you need lots of special tools but its something no one else can copy too, so pretty unique (kinda matches the car).

[RICE RACING]

I have a fair bit of information to pass on (need to collated it first) but here is a quick rundown of today’s work.

Boost re-learn at 1.35kg/cm
3rd gear pull from 2500rpm = 1+ bar or ~15psi boost by 4300rpm
4th gear pull from same revs = 15+psi by 3600rpm

VBOX3i results (on boost learning) max boost at this stage was like 1.25kg/cm or about 17.2psi
90-140kmh = 2.88 seconds, showed 272rwkw on Blitz power logging at 6800rpm and same power on my VBOX dyno plot (272rwkw @ 7000rpm)
Repeated same test in exact same location as the small incline (so I could overlay graphs and see difference to flat piece of road and it ran 3.07 seconds (v’s the 3.25 yesterday) exact same vehicle weight (cross checked on corner scales this morning ).. AFR on these pulls was 11.1 to 11.0 across the range all smoothed out and boost was pretty similar to the first run where I did the comparison for you.. so trim of fuel mixture helped the time improvement.

So after lunch I poured over the data and did some more trimming (2% reduction of fuel map) and went for a cruise. I gave it a few hits and it felt unreal in 2nd gear :auto: and partially in 3rd as well, on the way back on a nice stretch I pulled out to pass 3 cars and gave it the jandle from 3000rpm to 8000rpm and it was so strong! Stronger than a fat slut bench pressing buckets of KFC!!! The on board power meter showed 298rwkw @ 7200 rpm and held over 280rwkw to 7800rpm with don mega mid range power too. Boost was 1.35kg/cm or 19.2psi on the Blitz dyno graph log at these revs. So another 0.10kg/cm boost and a small fuel trim (along with refitting my old ignition timing map) made all the difference, oh and I turned the RRWEP110 down to 3.5 turns. AFR across board from 4000rpm to 8000rpm (75kpa to 140kpa gauge boost) is ~11.2:1 +-0.1.

I’ll wait for a cool morning and take out the 20kg worth of spare tire, tools, fire extinguisher! And run it at ¼ tank of fuel and I should beat my 2.75 second 90-140 record. As a side note when I was at track and it was doing 90-140 in 3.05 second range, I did 100kmh to 200kmh in 8.1 to 8.2 seconds range at same weight (1350kg total). I’ll hope to do this in 7 seconds flat now as now I can hold 4th gear due to the much better top end power with no loss of 4700rpm to 7100rpm power range (as measured in the 90-140 tests in 3rd gear).

It’s a win mate. :fawk:

[RICE RACING]

Polished the bad boy today, fucken in love :o13:

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2548/img2175plish.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/5012/img2197plish.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Well :)

Fitted up the new waste gate springs yesterday bought option of 1.3 bar and 1.4 bar Tail springs (combination of different inner and outers). I settled on the lower 1.3bar combo just in case they gave a higher set boost. Along with the new higher power setting I upgraded the specification of the spark plugs and some other details too.

Took the "beast" out for a drive today and the boost went to 1.53 to average of 1.50kg/cm! which is around 1.47 to 1.50bar! or old money 21+psi boost :) .......... it pulls like a mother fucker! First 3 2nd gear acceleration runs just torches the rear semi slick tires to 8000rpm, after about 6 or more passes and a few 3rd gear pulls the rear tires got very hot and sticky and could "almost" use all of the extra grunt in 2nd gear (only in straight line though and perfect road surface).... third gear is just stupid and is over in a couple of seconds, its very fast now.

Fuel duty before was around 67% > now 75% same AFR
Power on the Blitz was just under 300rwkw
Peak fuel pressure was 70psi now its around 75psi
EGT peaks have not gone above 890deg C

First cool morning will go out and do a test of the 90-140kmh and also do a 100kmh to 200kmh acceleration test report along with VBOX power graph.

[RICE RACING]

:reddevil: 305rwkw as measured by me :conehead:

Did a 90-140km 3rd gear test but battery went flat before all data could be written *I know excuses lol* covered the speed increment in 85m, previous best was 88m, off ECU data logging and given this distance its around 2.62 seconds which is Ferrari F40 beating territory.

Boost on 3rd gear pull from 2500rpm
130kpa (18.9psi) ~ 4400rpm
145kpa (21psi) ~ 5000rpm
holding to 8000rpm
Turbo speed is 110,000+rpm now lol
EGT fr 928 deg C rr 930 deg C peak.
AFR 11.3:1

After the boost controller learned the new spring the power delivery is so violent in 2nd gear even with warm semi slicks it just throws the car sideways down the road and leaves two black lines on the road :fawk: its sick :hurray:

From my best estimates its making around 490bhp to 500bhp at the engine corrected to std temp and pressure. Through a full catalyst equipped exhaust that is very quiet for road running *sounds nice at full power and revs* Engine has logged over 100 hours of use now at pretty high power settings, covered over 5000km testing.

Hope to update with some nice VBOX graphs soon, though the weather here is shit at the moment, stupidly hot and monsoon conditions daily :rant:

[Ian]

Man your car is sick clean. Nice to see your putting the effort in getting your car tuned right. Can't wait to have my car put back together. Had it apart for painting....

[llRyOsUkEll]

That is a impressive set up man. I have to agree, thats a nice air box you got there

[RICE RACING]

Thanks, good to see some shared love :auto:

Today I started fabricating a new camera mount, as no matter how many fancy graphs and top shelf information I put up people still seem to respond more to video footage :banghead: Will be good to share with the average punter just how bullshit good the acceleration is :coolgleamA:

I'll upload video and VBOX test report to my web site and link it here too :conehead:

[NoDOHC]

How level does the surface have to be to get accurate numbers from the VBOX?

My G-Tech gives dramatically different numbers if I am going uphill or downhill. It reads higher going up a hill. I know that the VBOX is to the G-Tech what a machine gun is to a dart gun, but I am curious what is required for a test setup.

[RICE RACING]

How level does the surface have to be to get accurate numbers from the VBOX?

My G-Tech gives dramatically different numbers if I am going uphill or downhill. It reads higher going up a hill. I know that the VBOX is to the G-Tech what a machine gun is to a dart gun, but I am curious what is required for a test setup.

The level makes no difference in a VBOX unlike a G-Tech which only works off an G reading. The G is derived via GPS doppler measure. On my VBOX3i I use also an accel and gyro unit which corrects for use in noisy (read satellite challenged area's). So I can have the ultimate/highest dynamic setting on my VBOX with no draw backs.

When you are coming to testing standards then I always use a known area that is flat within less than 0.5% over the distance, this is only so I have a relative comparison over the many hundreds of logs I have on file from cars I test. As any incline or decline has an effect on the vehicle performance... Any formula can be set up in the VBOX as it measures altitude variations so the power will always be correct ;) but as stated for ideal vehicle performance always a flat track is best. Corrections can be applied for all normal atmospheric changes due to altitude or temperature as well, this is all common practice but is up to the end user to apply. As VBOX is used by engineers the company does not offer any of this stuff to you in "software" you develop it all yourself :willy_nilly:

The G-Tech can be a good tool if you respect these limits on basic devices like the Tesla item, > here is a factory proper lab test comparing it to various VBOX units.... its a good read and what got me into VBOX in the first place ! http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=143457

Direct link to test http://www.performancebox.co.uk/download/GTECHvPB_Test.pdf

Here is the finished camera mount :conehead: got the position good *I think* same as what I had it before I think, will test it out soon :Angel_anim:

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6901/img2294camera.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7316/img2289camera.jpg

[RICE RACING]

got milk!

[RICE RACING]

I have edited video showing the beast (beating all but 1 F40 and having no respect for tire grip!) , but youtube is going BDC style and failing on me :ack2: so until then here is some reading :)

Are you ready for the results cunts :)

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1124981&stc=1&d=1272234182

"Here's the raw Excel data for the fastest 60 to 130 in 9.4 seconds. Do not use data before 60 mph or after 130 mph since I may let up before or after that.

I weighed the car right after the runs:

2,917 lbs (1323kg) without driver
3,113 lbs (1412kg!) with driver " (note 478bhp rated motor)

Car does 60mph to 85mph in ~2.10 seconds compared to RICESP 2.23 seconds :) *I need to turn the boost up just a little* ~5k to 7krpm for both vehicles. I estimate my thing has around ~440bhp on ~17psi setting, aiming for honest ~500 honest bhp on 1.5bar boost setting, which should achieve the goal of matching/beating? the F40. My power figure average for the SP is ~270rwkw on my VBOX measure (going off my experience * 1.2 = engine power = ~435bhp)

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1124983&stc=1&d=1272234182

60mph to 85mph now is .......................... 2.11 seconds basically exactly equal to the USA F40 for which I have a VBOX test from an owner *above* his was on small decent too! so artificially fast in my books.
100-140kmh is 2.10 seconds 70.36 meters (EURO F40 apparently does 2.0 seconds and 67.60 meters but have only ever found one magazine test on that, fastest one ever recorded too btw) listed earlier on.

Basically It's allot faster than the all but one of the Ferrari F40's listed *euro F40 Italian test, probably a boosted up special lol* (USA ones tested by Road and Track I obliterate in same rpm speed tests.)

I have a video of it and will do up a VBOX report showing the boost, back pressure, EGT, Turbine speed, and all the shit I do...... its a very impressive car for what it is. Hiring an air port not far from me for some high speed testing and full performance review. If you compare it to the Domar Jap 500ps cars that cant char the semi slicks as hard as mine nor accelerate no where near as quickly its even more impressive. I love it.

Additional information 17th Dec 2010 test update
60-130mph for RICESP at Aerodrome test is 8.62 seconds (lot faster than the VBOX proof from the F40)

[RICE RACING]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2YVuJg4rSg

As fast as a Pagani Zonda and Ferrari F40, I'll put up the VBOX proof later :hurray:

And that was on Rice's private test track, not some traction prepped drag strip. I seem to recall that the 'supercar' benchmark of the Ford GTHO was around 14.4 or even as low as 14.1. You'd run that with the air con and stereo pumping!

Pete, out of inane curiousity.... what is the highest peak g-force you've managed to log or come across on 'street' tyres? .72 looks pretty good.

i have had cars pull over 1G of accelleration (around 1-1.15G actually)on the street on street tyres,all have been evo's or wrx's or sti's though,i have had my rx7 as hi as 0.95G on the street,and some other cars in the hi 0.8's,all rwd and in the 12 sec bracket.that should give u an idea :D

i can garauntee the peak g reading u get on the v box will be in first gear,unless ur getting heavy wheelspin,but i doubt it,adn a low 13sec car will not pull 0.72G in second gear thats for sure.

my 1150kg rx7 with 360rwhp and toyo proxes tyres does just over 0.8G in second gear,thats zero wheelpsin and all power,and about 0.65G in 3rd,to give u an idea again,thats harder than most cars pull in first,and im in 3rd :lol:

also,u need a G graph,as peak doesnt give u a true idea,if u have huge grip and no power,u can give a huge dump and create a massive g froce spike on launch but it may only last an instant,then falls away to the normal g force.

Please tell me what G you have @ exactly 130kph in 3rd gear when doing a pull from 100 to 160kph *no gear change shunts*.... If you can tell me any G between revs of 6600rpm to 8000rpm in 3rd gear, but preferably at the above road speed to compare and apple to an apple
I tested a car today on road tires 235's that did a honest 0.657G :bow: which is 35% more G than a Pagani Zonda !!!!! which is at its power peak at that speed.
This car 11.4% wheel slip (so near perfect traction capacity) @ 24psi gauge boost pressure 2.6bar absolute pressure *948kpa and 35 deg C! test conditions*.Pump fuel and my WATER INJECTION

The car I tested has 260% more acceleration force than a Spirit R type A @ 130kph which in its own right is not a slow car :laugh:

**110kph to 144kph** (all listed in one gear with no changes involved)
1.55 sec in 54 meters
^ test car
1.83 sec in 65 meters
^ Pagani Zonda
2.42 sec in 86 meters
^ F360 Ferrari
2.91 sec in 103 meters
^ 230rwkw Spirit R Type A

RICESP is 1.84 seconds in 65.38 meters
*Pagani Zonda its test is slighly down hill so I will call myself just as fast! probably faster, have more top end G *acceleration* where as it's Mazzive 6+lt N/A V12 has a superior spread of power*. (It traps 128mph in 400m test) we both do similar 0-100kmh times for what its worth (within 0.1 seconds). I'll update with a full test when time permits ;) along with overlays between the two cars :)


EDIT (additional info, back up of first result)
17th Dec 2010 TESTS RICESP is 1.82 seconds in 64.53 meters *From Aerodrome test* SO ITS *officially* FASTER THAN A ZONDA !

[RICE RACING]

:conehead: Here is the graph showing some detail of various parameters & performance. Average figures between test lines shown (Avg-b) *report screen* and peak on datum line of graph in top left box snapshot of instant Graph data figures at that point.

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/7431/15kgboosttesttest.jpg

[RICE RACING]

I'll post up some other incremental times of the F40, I have 3 separate tests (one factory) two independent (USA and UERO models) and on peak power band test 60mph to 90mph and 70mph to 90mph I have ........

(Peak power band for all cars)

60mph-90mph
EURO F40 = 2.70 seconds
USA F40 = 2.90 seconds
RICESP = 2.59 seconds

70mph-90mph
EURO F40 = 1.90 seconds
USA F40 = 2.10 seconds
RICESP = 1.76 seconds

^ back this up with 2.56 and 1.73 seconds (on a quite damp track too) ;) so no one hit wonder :)

[Ian]

Just out of curiosity how is your bottom end. Do you have enough pull out of corners IE is the car good for the track or just high power runs?

[RICE RACING]

Just out of curiosity how is your bottom end. Do you have enough pull out of corners IE is the car good for the track or just high power runs?

Did you watch the youtube video? it is insane. for spread of power. In 2nd gear I just roll onto it really gently as if I stab it at low revs I end up off the road (this is why I have traction control fitted, but turned off in that vid to illustrate the power).

I have full 20psi boost at 4400rpm (not just the boost but the power is very strong from these revs onwards, its average power is flat out unreal from 4k to 8k rpm very flexible for a 13B engine) :auto: the whole set up is more around mid range power rather than anything to do with top end :coolgleamA:

I could improve it even more by dropping the exhaust system pressure by not running a catalyst, but I like it legal and the sound is really nice too in note and volume.

[Ian]

Did you watch the youtube video? it is insane. for spread of power. In 2nd gear I just roll onto it really gently as if I stab it at low revs I end up off the road (this is why I have traction control fitted, but turned off in that vid to illustrate the power).

I have full 20psi boost at 4400rpm (not just the boost but the power is very strong from these revs onwards, its average power is flat out unreal from 4k to 8k rpm very flexible for a 13B engine) :auto: the whole set up is more around mid range power rather than anything to do with top end :coolgleamA:

I could improve it even more by dropping the exhaust system pressure by not running a catalyst, but I like it legal and the sound is really nice too in note and volume.


Well I am impressed that you are running a cat converter. This is something I will have to install this year. Just surprised you do not burn through those cat converters. Do you have a air pump attached to your catalyst? Do you have to pass emissions?

[Trout2]

You tube says you're video is private.

[RICE RACING]

Well I am impressed that you are running a cat converter. This is something I will have to install this year. Just surprised you do not burn through those cat converters. Do you have a air pump attached to your catalyst? Do you have to pass emissions?

We have 3 gas analysis machines at work and the emissions are better than original and well under the specifications. I spent allot of time on fuel atomization and tuning to make that happen and also to make the CAT's live.

On that side I only use SMB & Performance Weaponry Catalysts, this has been a long term test project between us on this and their offering has delivered in power and durability and ultimately measured performance against known iconic cars :) it's nice to have the real engineering data on their abilities too showing the effect of pressure and turbine response and to a greater degree the power restriction in running such a device in a car of this proven power and performance.

Last time I checked the CAT it was excellent, I believe the only thing that kills these types of things is long term running on non ideal *chemically correct* mixtures at low speeds (especially cruise) where the rich mixture has time to react in the body and thus overheat and kill it. Full throttle and high gas flows dont kill cats as there is not enough time for the reaction to happen and thus little more temp build up apart from what is in the system at the point anyway *and this is reflected in the beginning and end AFR value you measure*.

Glad you like it :) I absolutely love it :302: was always my goal to equal Ferrari F40 performance, infact its better than allot of modern day alternatives... even the famed ZRI that only generates 0.48G accel at 81mph or 130kmh V's my RICESP @ 0.52G :fawk:

:conehead:

[NoDOHC]

Wow! Emissions legal. Your impressive numbers are even more impressive now.

[RICE RACING]

Wow! Emissions legal. Your impressive numbers are even more impressive now.

Thanks man,

I worked very hard to achieve this set up :117:
It was allot of fun doing the research and also history check of the supercars I compare my RICESP special too :hurray:

Not sure if most appreciate it :dunno: but there is a full time job alone in learning all of the VBOX stuff and the way I have applied it to measure power and do the things I want it to do. It's been a great adventure along the way, had the odd little set back :angelsad2: but I worked it all out and with the support of some great friends giving me motivation more than anything I showed that despite ANY set back or numerous hater attacks against you that you can win through and class/brains/god given talent wins in the end, no matter what haters/cunts may say about you or your car :Angel_anim:

Like we all know, its easy to open your wallet and charge up the credit card to get people to build you a car or many parts of it, its another thing all together to design, build, tune, and test/prove it all 100% yourself :reddevil:

[NoDOHC]

That is a fact. It may cost more, but you get the knowlege too.

I would love to be able to afford your toys and do my own development (I can barely afford to pay a couple hundred bucks for a dyno pull).

For the record, your car pulls harder in 3rd than mine does in 2nd. INSANE!

Keep up the good work!

[RICE RACING]

New record for my little cat equipped road going RX7 100kmh to 200kmh of 7.53 seconds! :auto: :fawk:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/930/100kmto200km100kmto200k.jpg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5983/airstrip.jpg

[RICE RACING]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqvaMTJZn8k

[FC3S Murray]

Nice video man! So if my math is right you are around 410rwhp correct?
That thing IS the definition of the rotary rocket :)

Glad to see you have finally beared fruit after all your hard work. I will agree that if your research is not 100% you wlll see a higher failure rate in the rotary then in conventional piston reciprocating engines.

That was the exact reason why my 13BT destroyed itself. I should have spent more time researching, I went farther then most '"average" rotary gearheads in regards to build precision, thermal control/scavenging and knock deterrents but not quite the 100% distance. I do hope in the future when my Family life slows down and my free time comes back to be involved again in a turbo rotary build with water injection.

For now my LS1 swap will have to satisfy my desire for a high power reliable engine that doesn't need as much attention.

Anyway, great job on the FD man. Very impressive craftsmanship. Enjoy it!!

[RICE RACING]

Nice video man! So if my math is right you are around 410rwhp correct?
That thing IS the definition of the rotary rocket :)

Glad to see you have finally beared fruit after all your hard work. I will agree that if your research is not 100% you wlll see a higher failure rate in the rotary then in conventional piston reciprocating engines.

That was the exact reason why my 13BT destroyed itself. I should have spent more time researching, I went farther then most '"average" rotary gearheads in regards to build precision, thermal control/scavenging and knock deterrents but not quite the 100% distance. I do hope in the future when my Family life slows down and my free time comes back to be involved again in a turbo rotary build with water injection.

For now my LS1 swap will have to satisfy my desire for a high power reliable engine that doesn't need as much attention.

Anyway, great job on the FD man. Very impressive craftsmanship. Enjoy it!!

Thanks very much.

On the power side its always an interesting debate/comparison. Mine is my own measure based on pure physics and engineering, I can't comment for others which vary depending on what dyno type people use. All I will say on the topic is my car accelerates faster and harder from 100kmh to 200kmh that some peoples RX7's that weight 120kg less and make (435rwhp as measured on a dyno dynamics machine!). **** Here is the link to an apparent 500+S-BHP (435rwhp Dyno Dynamics RX7 of 1180kg as run!) **** http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=631485&page=5 ........... you see why I value these toilet paper prints outs so highly :) 8.3++ seconds to my 7.53 seconds is an eternity.

(Below: stolen from gay shit hole club)
Just got back from Re-Worx !
Great job Geff and Max ! well done.

We mapped the car on E85
1600 and 850cc injectors are not enough with a base fuel pressure of 4.1BAR
We mapped at 0.9 Bar turbo pressure

all temps are just fine.. no knock no nothing
qoute from Geff: This engine likes running LEAN

432.2HP at the wheels at 0.9 BAR

flywheel
http://www.jeroentje.nl/media/foto/7011.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvcxXTrxG1w&feature=player_embedded 100kmh to 200kmh in 8.5 seconds!
*see what I mean* full throttle, full boost (actually higher than on dyno) 120kg less weight than me. And optimistic wheel speed sensors so in actual fact its probably slower than this indicated speed.

My long held experience after using almost every type of rolling road dyno over almost 2 decades is the vast majority of them are bullshit (over optimistic). This is why I bought my VBOX and developed my own power calculations as I know I can trust them and they do measure up to other cars in reality (production supercars).

There was a classic case of this on Motortrend a while back testing a R35GTR on a dynojet (using a guessing factor to estimate engine power @ 507bhp) then they took it to a real dyno that could calculate coast down power and actual wheel power (390awhp) and they worked out 485bhp V's factory spec of 480bhp. I have been lucky enough to work with both engine dyno and dynapack chassis dyno as a full time job at a University developing a FSAE power train, and I also got to exercise my development of my own power measure based on in vehicle tests so pretty much have seen it all and the variations you get between them.

My most important thing these days is spread of power (not just the peak), bit like your V8 conversion, its no point having a metric shit load :9898: of top end power and then never being able to translate that into any type of vehicle speed. The 100kmh to 200kmh test is graphic illustration of this, separates the dyno sheet racers from the people who can actually make a fast and reliable rotary :reddevil:

Over on the fag forum there was a bloke who listed up data logs of his ~1100kg RX7 that makes 435rwhp (dyno dynamics) on T04Z street port on E85 fuel (gutted open race exhaust) and on his video and data logging its doing 100kmh to 200kmh (off optimistic wheel speed sensors too!) in 8.3+ seconds.

I am very happy with my car and love the package :conehead: nice that people here appreciate it as well, happy to share the information with enthusiasts who can appreciate the level of work and dedication it takes to make and prove beyond any doubt how fast a true street rotary can be :reddevil:

[RICE RACING]

I have been into rotaries since 1992 (bought my first RX7) and in all that time I can say I have not till now felt content with a car and its set up. After taking the beast out for a drive now I cant do the typed word justice in trying to express how fucking awesome it is to have a quiet nice to drive rotary, that behaves beautifully, drives nice, and is fuel efficient and able to be filled up anywhere and driven over 900km on a single tank of fuel :001_302: It's a top long distance touring machine, something you just don't seen anymore with poofter fueled (E85 shitbox's) and rampant excuse machines that never do anything or go anywhere, except on tow trucks or trailers to the pusher (I mean workshop) for a undercover rebuild between BS dyno sheet postings or $10 plastic trophy battles of glory :smilielol5:

It's not the most powerful car I have owned, nor by any stretch the fastest I have been tuned or developed for customers, but its by far the best all round package. It's smooth as silk, and one brief step of the pedal away its an animal all in one set up, the video's just don't do it justice as to how the nose lifts when you stand on the throttle in 3rd gear and at such low rpm......... and the sweeeeeeeet rotary noise through the SMB exhaust is sex. :o16:

Anyone who does not get to feel the rotary enjoyment all I can tell you is that if you work at it (never give up) and put in half as much work as I have you too can feel the love :001_302:

[RICE RACING]

No you see why I have very little respect for common "chassis dyno's" FFS the Dyno Homo Dynamics is meant to read much lower than a Dynojet! and it reads a shit load lower than a Dynapack, and I say and can prove that the figures coming of a Dyno Homo Dynamics are totally FICTIONAL! not represent by any form of reality! :smash: :squint:

My real power measure is on average 15% to 18% lower than the Aussie DD!!! but its REAL POWER!! not made up bullshit with all kinds of hidden factors in the calculations!!!! and it matches REALITY and other cars from real manufacturers and also basics to do with fuel usage, Volutmetric efficiency, thermal efficiency, and vehicle performance. My RX7 only has around 480bhp to 490bhp at my estimate at the current setting, that is what the engineering says......... not a worthless dyno sheet from some doctored estimating guessing machine.

It's no wonder NONE of the cars who sprout of dyno sheet figures can give matching acceleration proof compared to "real supercars" say like a Ferrari F40 that weighs in at 1400kg and only uses a ~480bhp engine power form of propulsion :smash::smash::smash::smash::smash::smash::smash:: smash:

:lol::nopity: Dyno Sheets! :nopity::lol:

I dedicated a whole thread to it here > http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=185387&hilit=kerb+weight and typically only old school people who have allot of experience understand the reality of what we face in the modern HYPE world :o15:

[RICE RACING]

RICESP does 8500rpm limiter in 5th gear = 329kph or ~205mph+
100kmh to 200kmh in 7.53 seconds as a comparison to these cars below

HI EVERYBODY,
i found a nice comparison between some of the Fastest Extreme Sport Cars made, i though it would have been nice to post the results obtained in this Test:

SPEEDS
100kM/H = 62mph
200kM/H = 124mph
250kM/H = 155mph
300kM/H = 186mph


Dodge Viper SRT-10 506hp V10
0-100km/h 4.0s
0-200km/h 13.8s
0-250km/h 24.3s
0-300km/h failed
TOPSPEED 298km/h (185mph)

=

Porsche 997 Turbo 480hp flat6
0-100km/h 3.7s
0-200km/h 12.3s
0-250km/h 20.7s
0-300km/h 40.7s
TOPSPEED 310km/h (192mph)

==

Corvette Z06 513hp V8
0-100km/h 3.8s
0-200km/h 11.9s
0-250km/h 19.0s
0-300km/h 41.8s
TOPSPEED 315km/h (195mph)

===

Aston Martin Vanquish S 528hp V12
0-100km/h 5.3s
0-200km/h 16.5s
0-250km/h 30.4s
0-300km/h 57.1s
TOPSPEED 317km/h (196mph)

====

Mercedes SLR McLaren 626hp V8
0-100km/h 3.8s
0-200km/h 11.2s
0-250km/h 18.5s
0-300km/h 36.9s
TOPSPEED 324km/h (201mph)

=====

Ford GT 550hp V8
0-100km/h 3.9s
0-200km/h 12.0s
0-250km/h 19.0s
0-300km/h 33.6s
TOPSPEED 330km/h (205mph)

======

Ferrari 599 GTB 620hp V12
0-100km/h 3.5s
0-200km/h 10.3s
0-250km/h 16.6s
0-300km/h 28.9s
TOPSPEED 335km/h (209mph)

=======

Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 640hp V12
0-100km/ 3.4s
0-200km/h 11.2s
0-250km/h 17.7s
0-300km/h 31.8s
TOPSPEED 340km/h (212mph)

========

Pagani Zonda S 555hp V12
0-100km/h 3.7s
0-200km/h 9.8s
0-250km/h 17.4s
0-300km/h 25.8s
TOPSPEED 345Km/h (215mph)

=========

Koenigsegg CCX 806hp V8
0-100km/h 2.9s
0-200km/h 9.2s
0-250km/h 12.5s
0-300km/h 16.7s
TOPSPEED 395km/h (245mph)

==========

Bugatti Veyron 1001hp W16
0-100km/h 2.6s
0-200km/h 7.4s
0-250km/h 11.4s
0-300km/h 18.2s
TOPSPEED 406km/h (253mph)

[TitaniumTT]

Nice video man! So if my math is right you are around 410rwhp correct?
That thing IS the definition of the rotary rocket :)

Glad to see you have finally beared fruit after all your hard work. I will agree that if your research is not 100% you wlll see a higher failure rate in the rotary then in conventional piston reciprocating engines.

That was the exact reason why my 13BT destroyed itself. I should have spent more time researching, I went farther then most '"average" rotary gearheads in regards to build precision, thermal control/scavenging and knock deterrents but not quite the 100% distance. I do hope in the future when my Family life slows down and my free time comes back to be involved again in a turbo rotary build with water injection.

For now my LS1 swap will have to satisfy my desire for a high power reliable engine that doesn't need as much attention.

Anyway, great job on the FD man. Very impressive craftsmanship. Enjoy it!!

No, your shit blew up becuase you used BDC ported plates, and an aux system that is basically BDC's concocktion. That engine of yours was awesome, fucking mint! idled perfectly, pulled awesome and ran like a raped ape..... then she consumed that meth bullshit, she puked, laughed, cracked a plate and your balls fell off, rolled under the car and that AL hunk of crap ended up in the bay

At least it's one of the cleanest swaps that I've seen yet..... so I don't have to kill you.... just tie you down and let kyle rape you.

[RICE RACING]

^ Have to say I agree, ANYTHING involving that ass wipe BDC and his crack pot uneducated un qualified pony tail theories & shit talk is bound to end up in rotary tragedy :icon_tdown:

But there is a whole thread dedicated to this one persons legacy :rofl: This thread is about a car that works :auto: designed/built/tuned by someone single handed who holds relevant qualifications and has provided proof and hopefully inspiration for others that it's not too hard to achieve the same thing (especially when you can copy), a fast, very reliable, rotary powered Mazda street car............................ super car!

:auto:

[RICE RACING]

Well have had an unreal holiday break, driving the RICESP around 2000km at the current performance setting :driving:

Took a nice photo of it after a wash in some nice lighting, enjoy :icon_tup:

p.s. The thing is just unreal, its taken almost a year of constant tweaks and refinement but it is all worth it. One of the things I love the best is the economy of it! 20lt of fuel nets me on average around 150km of driving with a fair mix of full power runs and general cruising mixed in :o13: it's perfect :o13:

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7042/img2386bestpicricespbes.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Done a bit more fine tuning :)
Few mapping changes and WI and IC spray delivery rate tweaks, brought down the charge temperature and increased the power at the same boost setting as a result..... It is an Animal. :117:

[diabolical1]

... I can't do the typed word justice in trying to express how fucking awesome it is to have a quiet nice to drive rotary, that behaves beautifully, drives nice, and is fuel efficient and able to be filled up anywhere and driven over 900km on a single tank of fuel ...

well done, man.

what you said there is what matters! setting all the commentaries, opinions, bashing and business rhetoric aside, THIS is what it's all about ... enjoyment. it sounds like you've achieved it and to me, that's worth more than any other claim one can make.

[RICE RACING]

well done, man.

what you said there is what matters! setting all the commentaries, opinions, bashing and business rhetoric aside, THIS is what it's all about ... enjoyment. it sounds like you've achieved it and to me, that's worth more than any other claim one can make.

Well said :hurray: :iagree:

Have had a really great time over the holidays, just today she has had a chance to rest (back to work tomorrow :() covered around 2000km, today was fun slotting her back into 3rd and passing cars revs flaring and wheel spinning :117: at rocketing to 100mph, its a real beast, enough power on tap and its there any time, no excuses :117:

Last week I went to go see a good friend of mine (150km round trip) *he is a local legend drag racer* we got out there, and he asked "can you take me for a drive?" now worries we went for a run... he was flat out impressed, said it accelerates harder than his drag car and best thing is its quiet and drives like stock. < Valued opinions from old boys like this who I admire mean more to me than most opinions as Its objective and holds value (coming from a person of note, an achiever not an internet dreamer!@), especially coming from a piston turbo man too :Chevy_anim: As I said to him, "the thing that is important to me is to drive wherever I want and go for a run like we did no excuses", no qualifications or preparation, no trailers, no tow trucks!!, no BDC style blow ups. :117:

A road going rotary should be just that, a thing you can get in and drive it to your hearts content and enjoy all of the power you have any time any place, I love my car :302:

[NoDOHC]

A road going rotary should be just that, a thing you can get in and drive it to your hearts content and enjoy all of the power you have any time any place, I love my car


I agree whole-heartedly.

[FC3S Murray]

No, your shit blew up becuase you used BDC ported plates, and an aux system that is basically BDC's concocktion. That engine of yours was awesome, fucking mint! idled perfectly, pulled awesome and ran like a raped ape..... then she consumed that meth bullshit, she puked, laughed, cracked a plate and your balls fell off, rolled under the car and that AL hunk of crap ended up in the bay

At least it's one of the cleanest swaps that I've seen yet..... so I don't have to kill you.... just tie you down and let kyle rape you.

:toetap05: ...the wound is still deep isn't it? lol

THANK you for the clean swap comment. It should be great, matter a fact I should have a pic of it up very soon with the engine bay damn near complete.
I think Joels white FC in MAXPAYNES thread(recent posted pictures) has the cleanest engine bay set-up yet...outside of the car isnt my taste though.

engine of yours was awesome, fucking mint! idled perfectly, pulled awesome and ran like a raped ape.....
Very true:reddevil: and come on you all agreed that BDC's ports were tits:chillpill:

and your balls fell off
.....that happened when I got married bro:troll:

...AL hunk of crap ended up in the bay
:bowdown:......................ps: love you Brian:fawk:

[EJayCe996]

Congrats on being a feature video on RHDJapan

[RICE RACING]

Congrats on being a feature video on RHDJapan

:117:

Could you link me to the page where they have video's or links to them? :dunno:

[EJayCe996]

:117:

Could you link me to the page where they have video's or links to them? :dunno:

I dunno if you have a facebook or not but its on their facebook page.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/RHDJapan/26539564257

BDC is a fan of RHDJ so I'm pretty sure that completely put him on a burner :rofl:

[Barry Bordes]

Peter, hope you fared OK with the floods in OZ!

[ChaserAero]

Coming in way late but the photo quality is amazing in this build.

[RICE RACING]

Hey boys :biggthumpup:

No problems here, live in the only decent part of Australia :ugh2: so no flooding.

Car is going great! Have a dyno competition and car show in a couple of weeks, I'll try to take some more nice pictures and add them here (oh also if you like my ride please vote for me in the car of the month > http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=13228 if a rusty RX2 beats me I'll :18: :uhh:

Barry, I ave been doing allot of advanced work with the WI system, the results are very impressive indeed.

[rdgt99]

Very impressive build. Thanks for sharing and keeping us updated.

[RICE RACING]

My New dash board :fawk:

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/4626/lotus98t5barboostbrosen.jpg

Nah seriously lol, it's just a random picture I got of a Lotus 98T (proper F1 car) 1986 unlimited boost era, you can see the EGT label printed up on dash under the digital display showing max of 1120 deg C and air inlet temp of 60 deg C and water temp 90 deg C....

Boost gauge goes to 5.0bar absolute (you can translate that to your backwards English units you like lol)

[TitaniumTT]

72.5 psi

Note to forum......
None of these wierd ass metric units of measurement. :rofl:

[RICE RACING]

72.5 psi

Note to forum......
None of these wierd ass metric units of measurement. :rofl:

58psi "gauge pressure" as all you English loving unit types can relate too ;)

Notice gauge starts at 2bar absolute (1 bar gauge or 14.5psi) :bowdown:

During qualifying they took off the waste gates and replaced them with covers, Water Injected! and Water Spray on intercoolers :)

58psi+ boost and more watch it here > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dWLhhTto00&feature=related what 1300+bhp worth of water injection and maximum qualify boost looks like!

[calicrewchief]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dWLhhTto00&feature=related

Jesus, @ 30sec I thought I hit the fast forward. Insane acceleration.

[RICE RACING]

More development and fine tuning. Same boost getting ready for next step, proved reliability at this 1.53kg/cm setting or 140kpa gauge boost.

90-140kmh test standard.
2.51 seconds!

Would achieve 2.4x second range as last 130kmh to 140kmh zone was a little too much in the fuel setting for this qty of water injection. This is quick for a true rotary road car set up.

After the coming show (dyno day next week! *my students con'd me into taking my car* :smilielol5:) will do long term testing on the 1.72kg/cm or 170kpa boost level and post up the comparison results free time pending :)

[RICE RACING]

Show update:

The dyno was drowned by water (ironic) hahaha, there was flash flooding in Melbourne and Mikes dyno was under a foot of water!.... insurance job and thus non attendance to show.

Anyway went there and displayed the car, got a large & constant crowd of people who have seen it on the roads and some who were passed at warp speed! and were fascinated to see it was water injected. Was fielding inquiries and answering question non stop for about 3 hours! The 500+bhp has spoken for itself in the last year, leaving quite an impression :) judging by how many people were coming to see what was under the bonnet.

Drove down to the ocean for some lunch and left a couple of Porsche 997GT2 owners totally humiliated in the wake of the mighty turbo rotary after a little challenge *they started it, I FINISHED IT!* on the highway :) The overall power is just amazing from 4000rpm to 8500rpm in any gear!. I'm yet to be beaten by anything out on the highway, most just hide after a little "test", not saying its the worlds quickest thing, but fuck me it hauls!, and no excuses either, just jump in drive it & power when and where its needed, no excuses, no poofter mad max ethanol drums required, unlike some!!!! ;)

[RICE RACING]

Peter, hope you fared OK with the floods in OZ!

R.I.P One dyno machine :88:

[rdgt99]

Very impressive stuff!! Also, congrats on ROTM.

[RICE RACING]

Thanks :)

The next stage of development has commenced :reddevil: and after I complete the required time & distance of durability testing I'll post up some more hard core proof of the mighty RICESP performance statistics :reddevil:

Will do another 100km/h to 200km/h test run and a few other measures that should get peoples juices flowing :302:

The performance is amazing but I am more impressed with the long term durability of the package at sustained high power........... Water Injection is an amazing thing, even after so many years of being at the fore front of developing it I am still impressed by its ability to make reliable horsepower, unmatched horsepower!, while giving more durability than some making much much less!!!.

[RICE RACING]

Here is an update of the durability (measured by compression) of a stock 13B-REW (from brand new) when run at sustained high power. Taken form my postings on Aquamist Water Injection site.

Thanks Richard :smile:

I really have my heart set on it sitting on a steady 1.2 bar or 17.5psi inlet manifold pressure and when the weather cools down here maybe try 1.4bar ~20psi, I will update the VBOX3i testing figures once I get my hands on the methanol and mix up a batch. All levels I have run before in my old cars and in customers ones........

Tested the compression of the engine after 1800km and its good for a rotary at around ~122psi @ 250rpm (front and rear rotor same) cranking speed. Will keep an eye over this long term.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9986/img1624comp1800kmfr.jpg

I changed the porting specification to give the engine much more mid range power and not concentrate on top end power so much, it is quite fast on road despite relative low levels of peak power. I am projecting it will have a honest 480bhp to 500bhp (at the higher 1.4 boost setting) but will see what happens when I get around to testing this.

So a full year on and covered another 6000km (to date: all up 8200km) of testing/racing/top speed trials.
Summary: Every drive has been quite high load 90-140 testing probably around 400 or so of these tests, many 100-200kmh & 60-130mph runs (3rd to top of 4th gear) and a few top speed runs (on special test track :)). Last 3000km at ~500bhp level @ 1.53kg/cm Boost level.

I did one intermediate compression test between the 1800km and this one today, but only wrote those figures down rather than taking a photo/proof. They were close to the ones today.

Rear Rotor
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=104&stc=1&d=1298191592

Front Rotor
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=105&stc=1&d=1298191697

This test was fully dry (engine run till out of fuel) and EGI disconnected, First one cant remember but I think was not as "empty" of excess fluid, this makes a high difference to rotary engine compression readings FYI.

Anyway she is not too bad, I did not think it would hold up this good especially given its a mobile test bed each and every single time it gets driven.

I have it at its new boost level of 1.7bar (around 1.75kg/cm) and it is a rocket :) see if she can make another year of punishment :)

[RICE RACING]

Here is pics of the RR COP CD system mounted up (CD boxes next to battery on custom holder), wiring harness and COP's installed.

Few Grasshoppers & bugs from extensive real world testing on the front bumper! they stand no chance at "moderate" speeds :)

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9753/img2502cdisystem.jpg

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5373/img2497cdisystem.jpg

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8711/img2500cdisystem.jpg

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7416/img2501cdisystem.jpg

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/3152/img2524cdisystem.jpg

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4651/img2517cdisystem.jpg

Covered 1600km in last 2 weeks :D big boost bro! CD makes a massive difference over the HKS DLI and stock coils/leads combo.

[RICE RACING]

Well its official CD ignition totally rapes inductive.

I set a new record for the 90-140kmh test of 2.48 seconds, going on a small incline as well :) this test was non ideal in the fact that the car is still learning the new boost setting so it was lacking some mid range boost which is critical for this test.

Of much more importance though is the fact that on the CD ignition I can run the engine properly the way I want and not the way the ign system wants or allows me to do. This is very important for control of charge temperature and EGT also.

I can't divulge the exact figures (as too many copy cats!) I'll let them try to make a living off my old discarded info :o13: while I will continue to test and show first hand long term how fucking good water injection is for rotaries and REAL STREET CARS! (still on petrol, and full quiet catalyst exhaust system!)

[RICE RACING]

I'll post up some other incremental times of the F40, I have 3 separate tests (one factory) two independent (USA and UERO models) and on peak power band test 60mph to 90mph and 70mph to 90mph I have ........

(Peak power band for all cars)

60mph-90mph
EURO F40 = 2.70 seconds
USA F40 = 2.90 seconds
RICESP = 2.59 seconds

70mph-90mph
EURO F40 = 1.90 seconds
USA F40 = 2.10 seconds
RICESP = 1.76 seconds

New Figures for the last test compared to the Ferrari F40.

60mph-90mph
RICESP = 2.42 seconds

70mph-90mph
RICESP = 1.64 seconds

I still have some fine tuning to do and a couple more little tricks up my sleeve :) then will organize another test to do a new 100kmh to 200kmh figure :)

[RICE RACING]

To give this comparison test some context:
RICESP (stock std 13B-REW engine, full catalyst exhaust, T04 type turbo, plumb back waste gate, small standard inter cooler 1310kg)
*fully compliant genuine road car*

ND4SPD (Cosmo 13B, full bridge port, T51 type turbo charger, large front mounted inter cooler, gutted exhaust, open waste gate pipe 1250kg)
*quasi race car!*

I did some very interesting comparisons to ND4SPD (Mazda Capella I tuned with RRWEP110 WI) V's RICESP via the immense analysis power of the VBOX :)

I'll list up some comparison results: About the total FALLACY of " typical dyno sheets"! v's real world power and times taken for vehicles to actually do "work" with known levels of weight/mass!!!

This car makes on a dynohomodynamics ~390rwkw on 19psi boost (full bridge port & T51 turbo 1250kg as run at race track) where we got these recordings. You will see RICESP at 1310kg run weight is just as powerful (real rwkw! power as measured by me via VBOX!) and its just as fast in peak power band too (what really matters at the end of the day rather than poofter dyno sheet comparisons)

This report is of ND4SPD in its peak power band (6000rpm to 8200rpm) = 110kph to 150kph in 3rd gear on 19psi boost (VBOX measure = ~310rwkw owner has sheets of 380 to 390rwkw on homo dynamics guess machine)
ND4SPD = 110kmh to 150kmh = 2.07 seconds
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9957&stc=1&d=1300414313

This report shows RICESP and the first one is a FC RX7 fitted with a bridge port 13B running 15psi boost and a GT35 turbo lol (you can see I am twice as fast as it lol 4.43 seconds V's 2.06 seconds!) This car apparently makes 270rwkw dynohomodynaimcs @ 16psi boost LOL! You can see these dyno figures are not worth pissing on in the REAL WORLD! and are vastly overstated from what the cars actually makes when you apply real physics to them!!!
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9956&stc=1&d=1300414015

And the other result table is at full boost when I tuned it (ND4SPD) on road just before setting national dyno record http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm < *read customer testimonial* (which to this day still stands!) for the only ever 13B rotary to lay down 3 back to back power runs of this level and still be able to drive home :) on pump petrol :)
Boost, EGT, RPM, AFR sensors fitted in this tuning session.
RICESP = 110kmh to 150kmh = 2.06 seconds
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=9958&stc=1&d=1300414770

My RX7 is pretty quick I think you will all agree :) and this is still not sharing the current state of high power tune :) *I'll save that for another day*

[Mazdabater]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FD3S-RX7-92-02-RARE-BATHURST-SP-HT12-HITACHI-TWIN-TURBO-/230600510315?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b0dc8b6b

FUCKING LOL saw these rice and thought of you, sounds like a bargain!

[Mazdabater]

GET FUCKED WHY DON'T I HAVE 33K ON ME RIGHT NOW

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mazda-RX7-SP-build-Austrtalain-Delivered-sunroof-/170618446482?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item27b9a6e292

Actually nevermind, I had a look at the pics then noticed it was a 92.

[RICE RACING]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FD3S-RX7-92-02-RARE-BATHURST-SP-HT12-HITACHI-TWIN-TURBO-/230600510315?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b0dc8b6b

FUCKING LOL saw these rice and thought of you, sounds like a bargain!

Sounds like a total fucken rip off con job to me! :smash:

LOL @ the power "claims" fucken shonks! I bet they strapped them on a car and could not out accelerate a Barina! LOL ........... Sydney really needs to be bombed to get rid of all of the scum that lives there honestly shady cunts !

[RICE RACING]

GET FUCKED WHY DON'T I HAVE 33K ON ME RIGHT NOW

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mazda-RX7-SP-build-Austrtalain-Delivered-sunroof-/170618446482?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item27b9a6e292

Actually nevermind, I had a look at the pics then noticed it was a 92.

Still a nice car for a replica SP :)

You wont get a real one for under 90k now, last one I herd of changing hands that I did a report on for the buyer went for just under this money :biggthumpup:

[RICE RACING]

BACK ON TOPIC!

Here is the 3 rd gear acceleration of the stock RX7 SP, tested by Motor Magazine with Correvit digital timing.

RX7SP stock 1995 test
204kw
276bhp claimed power factory rated engine (100% stock std no mods at all)

100kmh = 0 sec
110kmh = 0.87 sec
120kmh = 1.83 sec
130kmh = 2.84 sec
140kmh = 4.58 sec

RICESP
You guess the power :)

100kmh = 0 sec
110kmh = 0.51 sec
120kmh = 0.99 sec
130kmh = 1.51 sec
140kmh = 2.01 sec

http://www.ausrotary.com/images/reference/rx7sp/motor/motor9e.jpg

[RICE RACING]

I just found 2 original issues of Wheels Magazine from 1996 where they do a Top Speed shootout of Australia's Fastest Cars. They are on their way to me :) when I get them will scan the full article and put it up.

Features my two fav cars of all time Mazda RX7SP and the Ferrari F40 :) and a whole heap of other vastly inferior cars :) They also feature acceleration tests too :) and I will post up some more comparisons :)

:spam:

[diabolical1]

Features my two fav cars of all time Mazda RX7SP and the Ferrari F40 :) and a whole heap of other vastly inferior cars :)
the F40 (in my opinion) is arguably the greatest supercar of all time, and my third favorite Ferrari.

[RICE RACING]

the F40 (in my opinion) is arguably the greatest supercar of all time, and my third favorite Ferrari.

Agreed, I grew up idolizing that car :icon_tup: my next fav was the Mazda RX7SP (IMHO it has F40 ques all over it!) Rear wing, slats, vents, Carbon in body work, turbocharged, very similar 4 stroke equivalent engine capacity, Kevlar seats, close to same weight, same power potential (when RX7 is developed properly) etc etc etc.......... and similar roots, specials made for racing.

My main goal in doing my own version of the SP concept was to equal the Ferrari F40 (< the best car ever made).

I'll put up the full test information on the Ferrari F40, the RX7SP, and RICESP :icon_tup: and scan the article for you :001_005:

p.s. Never ever thought I would own a SP with only 25 genuine versions made (this is why I never bought a copy of the magazines when they were out, did not want to depress myself !), they are rare compared to over 1300+ F40's made lol :)

[diabolical1]

Of much more importance though is the fact that on the CD ignition I can run the engine properly the way I want and not the way the ign system wants or allows me to do. This is very important for control of charge temperature and EGT also.
if you don't mind, can you expand on this a bit, Rice?

[RICE RACING]

if you don't mind, can you expand on this a bit, Rice?

It's a hard concept to relay over the internet, but I will try.

The inductive based ignition (even with HKS booster) is very limited in ability to fire and initiate spark, so much so that you end up compromising things like water rate you can use, plug gaps, heat range, ignition timing, and other parameters.... there are as a result losses of performance and non audible misfires which otherwise show up as a power loss when you test in the real world with the best equipment like the Race Logic VBOX3i (as I exclusively use).

The CD based ignition and in particular when equipped to its maximum with coil on plug system (even less losses of ign energy) just free you up to not work under the same constraints as a limited ignition systems imparts on you.

The performance I have out of RICESP now is just astounding! its a BIG JUMP over what I have listed here :reddevil: it's not something I am willing to share openly on forums however as always I do give about 1 million times more information for free and more openly than anyone else ever has or ever will. None of this is rocket science I need to reiterate its just repeating basic tuning knowledge as used by BMW to win the F1 world title using turbo's and also Porsche who used CD ignition on the 917/30 (nothing car that never did anything lol). For my own car I was VERY HAPPY with the way it was, but I am glad I went back to the full CD and COP set up, as I said it just another world in terms of performance levels that can be easily exploited through water injection and normal old pump petrol/gasoline :reddevil:

[Mazdabater]

You been on ausrotary lately rice, another white SP has appeared. Some guys like it's been sitting in my dads garage for 5 years or so and he'll probably let me have it for 10k as he doesn't drive it much =/ luckiest dude around

[RICE RACING]

You been on ausrotary lately rice, another white SP has appeared. Some guys like it's been sitting in my dads garage for 5 years or so and he'll probably let me have it for 10k as he doesn't drive it much =/ luckiest dude around

I know every SP in the country (and most fakes as well!) that car was in a heavy front end accident from my recollection, it was advertised around 7~8 or so years ago and no one bought it then (was advertised that it had an engine rebuild back then). The fit to the front section and the bonnet is not the best (read above comment for why).

Either way if the chassis number shows up on the list of numbers on my web site its a genuine, if it is one of the TACK ON 10 "lets make some ca$h" post race versions you can half the price as its not one of the original 25 homologation cars, but some still class it as a genuine SP. these "tack on 10 for ca$h" cars are pretty random and were made from left over bits n pieces no two are the same.

http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=203538&start=20

^ that car is not on my list and print out of Mazda assigned chassis numbers for the genuine 25 SP's ever made, also in the engine bay it does not have the original IC hoses (they were blue and white, like on mine) so its had a shit load of work done to it either in repairs or otherwise, This is a page for original SP cars > http://www.riceracing.com.au/RiceSPGallery.htm (look down bottom of page)

Either way a SP is the Don Mega of RX7's the best.

p.s. last Genuine SP I did a report and inspection on for a customer sold for over $90,000Au a few months ago for your information

[RICE RACING]

Got Wing !

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2864/img2622spdon.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Current engine bay set up with Capacitive Discharge ignition system, been running 1.8bar boost last few weeks.

http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/2852/img2594spdon.jpg

[project86]

I love your FD man. Loads of good info in this thread. Just curious.. do you use this car primarily for track or do you dd drive it as well?

off topic.. what kind of camera do you use? :)

[RICE RACING]

I love your FD man. Loads of good info in this thread. Just curious.. do you use this car primarily for track or do you dd drive it as well?

off topic.. what kind of camera do you use? :)

Daily is a new FJ Cruiser :) :party: This ^ car is just for fun on the weekends, its too nice to leave in car parks or even to abuse on track to be honest, though I do a fair bit of private testing with it to prove my products. It's a very rare car and a bit to nice for that even so I will be making another car just dedicated for more use like this sooner rather than later....... it only hit me how rare they are when a customer basically handed me 100k in CA$H to sell it on the spot last month, it was tempting, but no way would I sell it for any amount of money really.

On the Camera I use a Cannon D40, nothing too crazy but I did spend allot of time learning to use it properly. Photography is a real interesting subject, I'd like to get more into it.

[project86]

Daily is a new FJ Cruiser :) :party: This ^ car is just for fun on the weekends, its too nice to leave in car parks or even to abuse on track to be honest, though I do a fair bit of private testing with it to prove my products. It's a very rare car and a bit to nice for that even so I will be making another car just dedicated for more use like this sooner rather than later....... it only hit me how rare they are when a customer basically handed me 100k in CA$H to sell it on the spot last month, it was tempting, but no way would I sell it for any amount of money really.

On the Camera I use a Cannon D40, nothing too crazy but I did spend allot of time learning to use it properly. Photography is a real interesting subject, I'd like to get more into it.


Well its definitely an extremely nice ride. I aim to get an FD someday. The cleanliness of yours is inspirational. Also congrats on the FJ cruiser!

Just thought id as about the camera because of how clear your pictures are. I like photography as well just havent gotten very far into learning anything about it.

[RICE RACING]

She has passed the 1.8kg/cm durability tests with flying colors :) & the performance is amazing. We have the new settings at 2.10kg/cm (over 2 bar gauge, 300kpa ABS, 30+psi in the old money)..... there is still plenty of margin left in the set up to run 2.5kg/cm in street trim but as before will run at the intermediate step to prove it rather than do a one off power pull BS type sheet posting as is the norm among most kiddies shops or internet experts ;)

The acceleration is gag factor to the max! it's not scary but I tell you it does make your arsehole pulsate in mild fear if you have not sampled this kind of thing recently.......... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) !!!!!!!!!!!

[Mazdabater]

Lol just push it higher till she finally blows!!! You going to superlap this year? Will have to come have a better look at the SP

[RICE RACING]

Lol just push it higher till she finally blows!!! You going to superlap this year? Will have to come have a better look at the SP




The package I have made in RICESP is bullet proof, lots of power & durability to match. The boost pressure & following power increase is not a problem when you are water injected :) the more long term testing I do the more I am a fan of the amazing virtues of water injection over any other inferior way of making mega power (be that un needed porting, or stupid fuel conversions!, or other misguided newbie Gen Y misadventures)

The power I have proven in this set up is just amazing for the package, the real revelation is that its on another level now V's what I have been willing to share with people (at its lower power/boost settings) < even at those posted/shared lower levels it totally dominates so called Supercars!....... now its just fucking insane! and I love it :)

Still running full catalyst and legal road set up, daily driven! ........ it puts to shame pure "race cars" some of which mind you are much lighter, and claim to be much more powerful too LOL!!!!

[Mazdabater]

Come on rice 50psi pump fuel. You know you want to!

[RICE RACING]

Come on rice 50psi pump fuel. You know you want to!

^ This cars limit is ~36psi, I will eventually run it rest assured of that ;) but each point is proven not talked about or hyped up but runs through the testing program and stands the test of time, no excuses no hype, no 16 pages of postings like on some forums while never achieving anything at all :) *at 30psi now, which is a metric fuck load more power than anyone here can make on a legitimate 13B road car*

Best thing is its not just some bullshit dyno post but real numbers in a real street car that runs a stock motor (not one rebuilt ever other week! like others!) between dyno sessions or the odd track day :o21:

You are seeing real results and comparisons to genuine cars, and that is worth its weight in gold. I have allot of customers who have replicated the same results since following my progress on the Water Injection forum and others I post in around the world and they all just can't believe how easy it is once you know the key to the door for MAXIMUM POWER and MAXIMUM DURABILITY, all without wasting money on useless mods or ill thought up "upgrades" which turn your otherwise nice street car into a mobile excuse shit box on wheels that keeps you poor and your workshop in business :p

I do have another project on the production line that will re write the performance envelope, but will post some detail on that when the time is right :piggy:

[RICE RACING]

The performance is but one aspect of it that puts a smile on my face, but its the all round nature of it that is just flat out amazing.

Reaching in and starting it from 0 deg C ambient and it dong fast idle warm up without issue, perfect fueling, hot or cold. Air you can breath out the tail pipe! (no rotary fuel smell), how fucking quiet it is! :bowdown: on a long trip I do better than 7lt per 100km! long term fuel economy on a combined cycle is around 10lt per 100km..... which is just amazing. even when using full power the efficiency of the engine set up is just gag factor!@ I mean you can just put in 20lt of fuel and do over 150km of driving ! and that is doing performance work and cruising. I totally love it :hurray: best all round set up I have ever made, anyone who goes in it wants to buy it OR replicate the set up 100% :bowdown:

[MaD^94Rx7]

I like the way you approach your every performance goal a step at a time and test everything in the real world.
No super tech talk BS. I think I will be talking to you soon about some CDI ignition setup but I need to gather some funds before as I understand it's not cheap. Then again having the best was never cheap.
Hope you get as much time enjoying it as you do working on it :)

[RICE RACING]

I like the way you approach your every performance goal a step at a time and test everything in the real world.
No super tech talk BS. I think I will be talking to you soon about some CDI ignition setup but I need to gather some funds before as I understand it's not cheap. Then again having the best was never cheap.
Hope you get as much time enjoying it as you do working on it :)

I learned long ago that there is more to making a car than just a no verified dyno run or a BS 1/4 mile pass...... these days you get people who build (or pay to get built a track car and try to get cred with a shit box that lasts 20 minutes before shitting its mega dollar alcohol engine to oblivion :18:) ALL OF THAT CRAP IS WORTHLESS!!!!

My idea of a car is one that you can get it and go anywhere in, be efficient, do long distances and drive it hundreds of miles between fills if needed and race anyone anytime anyplace, without needing to carry mad max poofter fuel drums or worry about what ratio of alcohol you have or what type of premix to use or any of the other RAFT of crap excuses these cunts come up with ....... and what is the point of it all if its a gay loud obnoxious turd of a motors that wont work with anything less than a 4" drain pipe sounding like a chainsaw cutting up a homosexual at a male bukkake festival.

Engineer a car right and you will be amazed at how fast, efficient and durable it can be, all on normal petrol and water :biggthumpup::biggthumpup::biggthumpup::biggthumpu p::biggthumpup:
Keeping rotaries going and showing PIST ON loosers what a real car is like, representing out on the highways and roads, taking on all challengers who dare question Felix Wankels master piece of mechanical engineering. :cheers2:

EDIT: I wanted to share with you I filled the RICESP up with 110lt of fuel and did a huge drive up the mountains (its about 3 hours drive away from base) up there at altitude there is an amazing bit of test road and fuck me! getting there at the crack of dawn and opening up the big power was just amazing! The ability to go on such long distance non stop drives is what makes this car so special, and more fun than just the pure power production ability it has. Had a lot of fun and turn around and go back..... all round 7 hours driving all on one tank of fuel :) fast, reliable, efficient and totally usable, its how every turbo rotary should be!!!

[MaD^94Rx7]

Awesome stuff!

[RICE RACING]

Awesome stuff!

It's the best advertising tool I have (BDC and HC take note!), in some ways its bad cause I get sick of people offering to buy my car after going for a ride in it! though it is flattering to hear them go on and on about how unbelievable a package it is ..............



And in all fairness to them, it is :D

[classicauto]

You're running NRS ceramics in this car still? With or without the experimental corners?

[RICE RACING]

You're running NRS ceramics in this car still? With or without the experimental corners?

^ No and No. ^

The engine is 100% Mazda std 13B-REW. < Stripped, checked, re assembled and put in the car just as it comes out of the box 100% stock standard with zero modifications or parts changed from factory.

^ That is the BEST part about it, ANYONE can go and achieve exactly the same result as no special parts are required nor needed!, you have a fresh healthy non molested factory engine and you will get the same result. I did this MANY years ago with a customer car but based on a T2 Series 5 engine block, back then I put it down to a one off, this times I repeated it and have achieved much more power ......... stock std engines are all you ever need, more power than you can ever handle and durability is unmatched. But the absolute best part is the power band, it shits on anything else.

[project86]

^ No and No. ^

The engine is 100% Mazda std 13B-REW. < Stripped, checked, re assembled and put in the car just as it comes out of the box 100% stock standard with zero modifications or parts changed from factory.


So all of your performance gains are from solid tuning? Thats just fantastic. what whp are you putting down?

[RICE RACING]

So all of your performance gains are from solid tuning? Thats just fantastic. what whp are you putting down?

The honest way I measure the power its around 330~350rwkw. If you measured it on a dyno dynamics (which read much much lower than a dyno jet) then it would be around 400+rwkw, in scum english metric units this is 530+rwhp.....

For all that typing though I dont give a fuck about dyno sheets or their guestimates as they really dont add up to reality in most cases!

All I know is that a stock 276bhp RX7 takes so long and a certain distance to do an acceleration pull (as I posted) and mine if over twice as powerful since takes under half the time and under half the distance, so by my measure its twice as powerful (as I listed in the measured RWKW) in my tests (between a spirit R type A and RICESP) and that is on much lower boost and power to what I run it at now :)

I estimate the engine power at around a GENUINE 550bhp+ but with more in reserve, which is the amazing part. And yes its down to nothing more than water injection and very fine set up of the whole system, rather than any exotic mega dollar engiens or other snake oil :)

[project86]

in scum english metric units this is 530+rwhp.....



haha thank you. often times i wish the U.S. would just switch to metric...after all i believe we are the only country using standard measurements haha.

either way im seriously impressed by this. The entire time ive been into rotaries (only since about 05-06 to present) ive been under the impression that the only way to gain power really is to start porting. and i suppose thats under the assumtion of more air in more air out+more fuel= more power. but you have clearly blown that out of the water.

Question... Would there be any benefit to doing water inj on a naturally aspirated platform?

[RICE RACING]

haha thank you. often times i wish the U.S. would just switch to metric...after all i believe we are the only country using standard measurements haha.

either way im seriously impressed by this. The entire time ive been into rotaries (only since about 05-06 to present) ive been under the impression that the only way to gain power really is to start porting. and i suppose thats under the assumtion of more air in more air out+more fuel= more power. but you have clearly blown that out of the water.

Question... Would there be any benefit to doing water inj on a naturally aspirated platform?

Turbochargers are a great device, for only marginal *very marginal* increases in pressure you get great gains in power (through vastly increased air flow), much more so than what you can achieve with any type of trivial porting, so its pretty pointless making the engine worse in response and power band and run only XYZ "fixed" boost pressure..... that is what took me a long time to acknowledge as well, so you are not alone there. Lots of people are under the misconception that you need to port to make prodigious power and nohting could be further from the truth. It's not as if I am using outrageous boost levels either, you can see the listed performance I am willing to share is under moderate boost pressures and it still compares well to fully race ported examples, running gutted non leagl exhausts etc.

WI can work on anything that is knock limited, so for NA it ould have to be running very high compression that mandated a non ideal spark timing (retarded) over ideal, you could run water injection to pick up the lost efficiency is one example.

[project86]

WI can work on anything that is knock limited, so for NA it ould have to be running very high compression that mandated a non ideal spark timing (retarded) over ideal, you could run water injection to pick up the lost efficiency is one example.

So really here you would have to be running a pretty extreme NA set up for this to be pracatical at all? In which case would it even be worth it ?? lol. My future plan is to run a NA 20B (Rx8 rotors/ported/motec/full exhaust).

My main reasons behind the build are at this point because i wanted to be able to have some more "fun" whp numbers but keep the reliability of the NA platform so i didnt have to worry about blowing the damn thing up. And also because the 20B is just a cool build you dont see everyday. Ive seen my friends dump what we thought were good turbo builds, but apparently from all ive seen, from this build and the info you've provided in other threads, my fear of the turbo game is really an unnecessary one :dunno:.

[RICE RACING]

So really here you would have to be running a pretty extreme NA set up for this to be pracatical at all? In which case would it even be worth it ?? lol. My future plan is to run a NA 20B (Rx8 rotors/ported/motec/full exhaust).

My main reasons behind the build are at this point because i wanted to be able to have some more "fun" whp numbers but keep the reliability of the NA platform so i didnt have to worry about blowing the damn thing up. And also because the 20B is just a cool build you dont see everyday. Ive seen my friends dump what we thought were good turbo builds, but apparently from all ive seen, from this build and the info you've provided in other threads, my fear of the turbo game is really an unnecessary one :dunno:.

If it was easy dumb cunts like BDC could do it. Fact is it is not, but if you are willing to learn from real engineers like Sir Harry Ricardo & Frank Walker (to name but two Water Injection pioneers) then you too can make a stock standard rotary reliable.

I have invested allot of my time and money over 2 decades to learn all of this myself, with no ones help, but my own tenacity and education to fall back on to make my own rotary turbo that is affordable, powerful, and reliable. Anyone can go and replicate the result, I'll even tell them openly how to do it as well :) you cant ask for more than that :)

I am a turbo fanatic and devote, they are NOT simple when run in street trim on normal petrol, but if you know the key to the performance formula it is nothing short of a revelation as to just how "easy" or "basic" the whole set up can be, or what takes it to work in reality V's and internet posting or empty promise that others promise. My idea is simple, build it prove it, tell people how you do it........ I've done all of that with RICESP, its a Mazda rotary 13B Turbo stock engine and its faster than lots of iconic supercars, twice as much power as a standard car, not proved by one off measures or fake doctored "performance measures" but real comparisons of like specification vehicles on common road platforms.

You should not be scared at all, but it will take for some a quantum leap back into the 1930's to see what the real pioneers discovered, he who does not learn from history is bound to repeat the same mistakes over and over ;)

[project86]

Well then :) Maybe ill reconsider my uber expensive 20B plan for a stock s5 13BT or an 13B-RE and water inject ;)

[RICE RACING]

Well then :) Maybe ill reconsider my uber expensive 20B plan for a stock s5 13BT or an 13B-RE and water inject ;)

I have no shortage of ca$h or ability to make whatever I want and I can only tell you the rocket ship performance of my 13B just puts the 3 rotor into insignificance, especially in a normal RX7 chassis. It's hard to convey to people, the best thing I do is just take people for a drive! and when you see them (some seasoned car people) who want to rip off the door trim handles or are telling you to slow down that they have had enough............ it just speaks volumes more than any Race Logic VBOX3i figures I can post up.

I dreamed of performance on tap like what I have now, it really does just impress you each time you drive it, and unlike people with trailer queens jungle juice mad max fuel drum carrying slaves its totally on tap, any time, any place. And we are talking road car, with a catalyst, quiet, efficient, can drive long distances and not go broke filling it up, and its a rotary :) More people need to get on it, I don't care if they use my system or my friends on Aquamist where I share my ideas and enthusiasm, its all about the power of water injection on knock limited engine platforms, and ALL regardless of type of fuel are knock limited, does not matter if its a Reno racer at 75psi running a Supercharged merlin on 150 octane or a Rice Racing running on 87 octane :) we all exploit the power of H2O!

[MaD^94Rx7]

Correct me if I'm wrong Pete but are you running straight water or a 50/50mix with meth?

Henri

[RICE RACING]

Correct me if I'm wrong Pete but are you running straight water or a 50/50mix with meth?

Henri

I run BOTH.

During the last 3 years I have come up with a system and tune up that is interchangeable between WM50 and Water, this covers all operators I have across the world who run in all weather conditions, in varying venues (certain rules) and have all types of set ups (some that tolerate water) and others that do not. Thus I was testing on "typical" inductive ignition and my own SUPER IGNITION systems.

If you look at my web page (under water injection) you will see I have made and engineered cars that make prodigious horsepower along with unrivaled reliability on both specifications.

[project86]

Are you Ohlins coilovers decent for street use?

[classicauto]

I'm surprised to hear that you've gone away from NRS. My current engine is a series 5 stock standard, only minor casting flash removed from the intake ports. Rebuilt by myself all OEM mazda components. Great powerband, more then 2 years of abuse and road trips at 350+rwhp, 121+mph trap speeds in the 1/4, nearly 50,000kms of use......but I'm swapping in an REW that I will be using NRS seals with.

Have you changed due to some issue with the seals or to prove the durability of the OE components? From my findings the OEM items need not to be proven, but I'm moving to NRS to facilitate a longer overall lifespan of the engine at elevated power.....bad move?

[RICE RACING]

The Ohlins are a beautiful street set up. Australia has fucked roads and they work well here.

[RICE RACING]

My current engine is a series 5 stock standard, only minor casting flash removed from the intake ports. Rebuilt by myself all OEM mazda components. Great powerband, more then 2 years of abuse and road trips at 350+rwhp, 121+mph trap speeds in the 1/4, nearly 50,000kms of use.
Have you changed to prove the durability of the OE components? From my findings the OEM items need not to be proven.

No one has gone to the extent I have properly documenting OEM in this type of car at this level, as its more relevant to customers across the world I though it best to do this as it holds much more credence and is something anyone can aspire to have + it proves just how good OEM parts really are as you and I both know ;) ;).

[Mazdabater]

What spark plugs are you running rice, going to have to get some to suit the wi when I can finally afford the kit lol. You post my dli yet?

[RICE RACING]

What spark plugs are you running rice, going to have to get some to suit the wi when I can finally afford the kit lol. You post my dli yet?

I still use the Trust re-branded NGK plugs, tested various heat ranges etc etc.

No I will post it Monday, thanks for the reminder!

[Mazdabater]

No you won't you'll post it Tuesday lol. Mondays public holiday. Are the trust ones worth running in a daily? They are pretty dear aren't they? I've always run b9egv as that's what dysons told me back in the day but they can go suck a cock

[RICE RACING]

No you won't you'll post it Tuesday lol. Mondays public holiday. Are the trust ones worth running in a daily? They are pretty dear aren't they? I've always run b9egv as that's what dysons told me back in the day but they can go suck a cock

I know its hard to tell over the internet but I must have run literally hundreds of different spark plug types across probably now millions of miles collective across many end users and I find it about 5 times more economic to use the ones I do now V's the EGV's

I daily drive the SP, cold starts gentle trips, pick the right heat range and they will never foul.... they last 50 times longer than EGV's too.

[project86]

for some reason i thought someone told me once that ceramic apex seals dont seal as well under low rpms. is this true?

[Mazdabater]

I'm sold then. Now just gotta find a place to get them.

[RICE RACING]

for some reason i thought someone told me once that ceramic apex seals dont seal as well under low rpms. is this true?

^ Feel free to start another thread and I might contribute, title it E85 and I will def post in it :puke: Let's leave the non used parts hypothesis out of this one :Chevy_anim:

[Flash]

You have quite the nice ride. I've really enjoyed reading through your experiences with your SP. I may have missed it, but what's your fuel setup like? Injectors, pump etc? Any thoughts on Injector types at all? When you say pump-gas, you're using the top grade available (91) ?

I really like those seats!

[RICE RACING]

You have quite the nice ride. I've really enjoyed reading through your experiences with your SP. I may have missed it, but what's your fuel setup like? Injectors, pump etc? Any thoughts on Injector types at all? When you say pump-gas, you're using the top grade available (91) ?

I really like those seats!

Thanks :)

Fuel system is as follows

Sard 280lt pump
Sard Type RJ regulator (55psi static pressure setting)
4 x 1000cc Bosch injectors
ATL foam filled tank
Kenne Bell Boost-a-pump, full pump rewire

Fuel used
BP Ultimate or Shell V-Power < but not mandated, I have run it on lowest specification unleaded at high power setting.

I tried many types of fuel injectors, Bosch 839's, Rochester's, Denso, but finally settled on the "pencil type" Bosch units of high impedance, they seem to work well.

The seats are Don! I just came back from a 200+km drive for about 3 hours inc lunch stop, and the seats are unreal, very supportive :)

[RICE RACING]

:icon_tup:

Daily Driver

:driving:

[RICE RACING]

Well the best just keeps getting better, while the pretenders on the internet forums, and bloggers and other general life failures are extending and pretending the bank managers PONZI finance to keep their crap boxes on the track/road/car trailer/, ............ RICESP just keeps on going and getting faster and faster :driving:

:lurk5:

:001_005:

Great articles coming up soon on the proven world wide recognized and badly copied Rice Racing Water Injection system and a few other pioneering technologies and world leading systems

:icon_tup:

:drool5:

:sifone:

:auto:

[RICE RACING]

Thanks :)

Fuel system is as follows

Sard 280lt pump
Sard Type RJ regulator (55psi static pressure setting)
4 x 1000cc Bosch injectors
ATL foam filled tank
Kenne Bell Boost-a-pump, full pump rewire

Fuel used
BP Ultimate or Shell V-Power < but not mandated, I have run it on lowest specification unleaded at high power setting.

[/B]

Changed this fuel system set up slightly, should update it !

Different fuel injectors, different fuel pressure, Normal Petrol (as always!), New RR Water Injection system!...... another 200bhp!!!!!

[MaD^94Rx7]

Hey Pete watchin this and other of your articles closely... Can't wait for the update with pics :)

[Mazdabater]

Cmon rice don't tease me, post up some real data on what your cars doing now

[RICE RACING]

Cmon rice don't tease me, post up some real data on what your cars doing now

Soon brother soon :party:

I have given a free service to many people around the world who all of a sudden became "experts" :smilielol5: LOL. No more, only the old information will be released once the new levels are proven. I don't care if people copy it then cause its old news to me :001_302:

The new stages I am finalizing now are just totally unheard of level of performance and durability for a true road going 13B ROTARY, just like the last proven development Ferrari F40 beating stages openly shared it makes peoples "race cars" look like total plastic wrapped nuggets! :smilielol5: hahahaha.......

Stay tuned for the old outdated news, I'll continue to lead while others follow for the next 20 years!!!! ;)

[RICE RACING]

No you won't you'll post it Tuesday lol. Mondays public holiday. Are the trust ones worth running in a daily? They are pretty dear aren't they? I've always run b9egv as that's what dysons told me back in the day but they can go suck a cock

LOL Dyson here run buses LOL, useless cunts. :rofl:

[RICE RACING]

Some more pics of my ride ;)

RICEFJ has joined the stable officially :)

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1134/img3608ricespricefj.jpg

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5192/img3665ricespricefj.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/953/img3650ricespricefj.jpg

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2979/img3615ricespricefj.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Well well, new settings are showing potential :) :auto:

Low Boost setting 20psi or ~1.4bar (3rd gear RR std runs)
90kmh -140kmh = 2.32 seconds ! and 2.33 seconds ! (2 x separate tests)

EGT peak = 880 deg c to 870 deg C

Other info to down load off the ECU but will post it up later........

Car is stupid fast & effortless with new WI strategy, and will only go faster on higher boost settings.
More info (snap shot) added:
RPM 7700rpm
EGT 878 deg C
AIT 36 deg C to 40 deg C
Ambient temp 18~20 deg C
Boost 142kpa 1.45kg or 20.6psi
TIP 18.6psi
TOP 3.3psi
FP 65.8psi
Turbine rpm 107,166rpm
AFR undisclosed
WI undisclosed
Ign timing and split undisclosed
Inj duty 54%

On board power meter showed 379rwkw, car is very quick for a true road car, too fast really to be used properly without tripling any posted speed limits LOL. Anyway its got a great base to finish off the very high power/high boost work I was doing through this and last year, with much more favorable long term operating parameters on the engine and turbocharger. Next stages are back up to 1.80kg boost, 2.00kg, and 2.20kg and 2.45kg, keeping in mind the above is only on ~1.45kg to 1.5kg *waste gate spring minimum setting* :)

Non of this is remotely possible without the power of water injection :) all mind you on a near 3 year old over 20,000km daily driven engine that has NEVER been touched! unlike some who have gone through 100k worth of engines and tunes lol. :9898:

[RICE RACING]

:party:

Well got RICESP running 1.85kg/cm boost on the new upgraded set up, this is about 26.3psi in retarded speak.

The power is just fucking unbelievable !!!!

I have very good street tires Kumho KU36's and these in 3rd gear just send the vehicle sideways :001_302: the power when it hits is unreal! the car squats down, picks up the left hand front and its like a bucking bronco, she really screams! In 4th gear it accelerates best, the mid range power is as good as what I had as peak rpm power before, passing cars on highway is retarded, leave it in 4th and you go past at warp speed only using 4000~5500rpm...... :D

To put it in perspective, allot of the Domar Jap spec FD3S specialist videos you see people gagging over the cars never run more than 1.1kg/cm boost, and using homo injectors and small turbo's allot of the cars wont even char tires in 2nd let alone 3rd gear with a top end diff ratio that will do 210mph!!!!

I'd love to put this car on a boat and show the drift king how a real FD3S goes, he would shit his panties :lol:

[MaczPayne]

Need vids! :)

[knonfs]

Need vids! :)

INDEED!

Peter - Are you still running 100% water? My car is finally getting tuned sometime this month, and Dave at KDR recommended a 50/50 mix (I have your kit) :icon_tup:

[RICE RACING]

INDEED!

Peter - Are you still running 100% water? My car is finally getting tuned sometime this month, and Dave at KDR recommended a 50/50 mix (I have your kit) :icon_tup:

Hey there,

No I use and recommend only WM50 (by weight!), I have been using this for a LONG time now and documented all of the testing here > http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1590&page=8
^(there is a ton of info, and the performance is ALWAYS increasing *to give you an idea post #74 or so lists power as 278rwkw and now I have much more*, but you will get the idea, its worth the read)
I tried all kinds of permutations even different fluids, trying to replicate what I have in old testing papers on the subject, in the end I got a pretty good correlation and I personally found that 50/50 water to methanol *by weight* cools the best, and makes the most power by a long long way.

I have upgraded my WI systems just recently to fully exploit this system change, you can still run it on pure water if you wish, you just wont make the same power or have the same detonation resistance as the latest specification systems (all that is different is the nozzle calibration, all the system parts are the same).

Peter

[knonfs]

Hey there,

No I use and recommend only WM50 (by weight!), I have been using this for a LONG time now and documented all of the testing here > http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1590&page=8
^(there is a ton of info, and the performance is ALWAYS increasing *to give you an idea post #74 or so lists power as 278rwkw and now I have 379rwkw!!!*, but you will get the idea, its worth the read)
I tried all kinds of permutations even different fluids, trying to replicate what I have in old testing papers on the subject, in the end I got a pretty good correlation and I personally found that 50/50 water to methanol *by weight* cools the best, and makes the most power by a long long way.

I have upgraded my WI systems just recently to fully exploit this system change, you can still run it on pure water if you wish, you just wont make the same power or have the same detonation resistance as the latest specification systems (all that is different is the nozzle calibration, all the system parts are the same).

Peter

Love to hear that, seems like Dave is on the right track! The nozzle calibration that you speak of, is that by adjusting the plastic turn knob on the side of the nozzle?

[RICE RACING]

Love to hear that, seems like Dave is on the right track! The nozzle calibration that you speak of, is that by adjusting the plastic turn knob on the side of the nozzle?

Yes, best to E-Mail me as I don't really freely share specs (only with customers like you) ;) peter@riceracing.com.au

The RRWEP110 set up you have can get you pretty high up, for more you would have to send the atomizer back to me and I can modify it to the new specifications :) *its only if you want to run ~36psi boost* < and the power that goes with it :)

[RICE RACING]

:auto:

O.K. Remember pump petrol here !

90kmh-140kmh = 2.26 seconds!
100kmh-150kmh = 2.39 seoconds!
100kmh-200kmh = 6.25 seconds!

Still on old tires, and showing about 24psi boost on the VBOX, and ~330rwkw VBOX POWER!!!

Tested at 1320kg run weight and 25 deg C ambient day, still doing boost learning procedure so there is a bit more in at this level and fuel mixture set rich to be on safe side.

:conehead:

Fact V's Fiction :9898:

Will put up some graphs when I get them off the lap dancer top :coolgleamA:

Here is the graph of the 2.26 second 90-140 test :) this car has a *massive* power band, not normally seen on genuine 13B road cars of this level of performance and speed!@ the word "response" does not do it justice! It builds one bar of boost at around 3400rpm in a transient test, and near its maximum boost setting well before 4600rpm and it does it even in the low gears which only take a second or two for 8000rpm, its fantastic..... best road car set up ever !@
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1341/226secvbox.jpg

[1FaastFd3s]

Great read and what a last update! Do you have any videos of the current setup? Cant wait to see what 30+psi on this setup will do. You are currently running 50/50 water/meth, no longer just water correct?
David

:auto:

O.K. Remember pump petrol here !

90kmh-140kmh = 2.26 seconds!
100kmh-150kmh = 2.39 seoconds!
100kmh-200kmh = 6.25 seconds!

Still on old tires, and showing about 24psi boost on the VBOX, and ~330rwkw VBOX POWER!!!

Tested at 1320kg run weight and 25 deg C ambient day, still doing boost learning procedure so there is a bit more in at this level and fuel mixture set rich to be on safe side.

:conehead:

Fact V's Fiction :9898:

Will put up some graphs when I get them off the lap dancer top :coolgleamA:

Here is the graph of the 2.26 second 90-140 test :) this car has a *massive* power band, not normally seen on genuine 13B road cars of this level of performance and speed!@ the word "response" does not do it justice! It builds one bar of boost at around 3400rpm in a transient test, and near its maximum boost setting well before 4600rpm and it does it even in the low gears which only take a second or two for 8000rpm, its fantastic..... best road car set up ever !@
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1341/226secvbox.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Great read and what a last update! Do you have any videos of the current setup? Cant wait to see what 30+psi on this setup will do. You are currently running 50/50 water/meth, no longer just water correct?
David

Hey David,

On holidays now, so start of next year will get back into testing and updates :coolgleamA:

I'll fit up my new tires and the camera and take some video of how she goes, currently its on 26.3psi or 1.8bar gauge boost pressure.

I have run WM50 for the last 2 years, logical progression from water really. I did allot of my own tests on a host of fluid mixtures, verifying old test reports and found in my own case that WM50 (50:50 by mass, not volume) works the best for me. I don't disclose the WI rate exactly (something I keep for my customers) but its "high", and it needs to be to run this level of boost pressure and certified performance on the VBOX :)

Last year I did tests on 30+psi but was not overly happy with some parameters for long term use, last month I finally got around to re-engineering some system set up parts and now its much better as a long term proposition. All on the same 13B-REW I have been running for 3 years and its not ever been touched! (testament to reliability of water injection). This set up will easily do 2.5bar gauge boost pressure or ~36psi on normal BP Ultimate Petrol. What cant be conveyed over the internet is the speed of the way it is now on ~26psi! :auto: it flat out hauls! :auto:

[RICE RACING]

"Got Grip C*nts" :auto: Ho Ho Ho Merry Christmas! :rofl:

275/40/R17 Toyo R888 GG compound

Fits like a finger in a bum.... :)

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3489/img3677gotgripcunts.jpg

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/3559/img3693gotgripcunts.jpg

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8901/img3687gotgripcunts.jpg

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/311/img3682gotgripcunts.jpg

[JhnRX7]

Nice! Now its time to do the front to match :biggthumpup:

I see you have what looks like multi piece brake rotors... Are those Spirit R sized brakes or the original smaller size? Were there any changes to the braking system with the original SP?

[RICE RACING]

Nice! Now its time to do the front to match :biggthumpup:

I see you have what looks like multi piece brake rotors... Are those Spirit R sized brakes or the original smaller size? Were there any changes to the braking system with the original SP?

These brake rotors are original SP developed items (or M1020 prototypes cars from 1994, which were then farmed off to the production SP Australia cars). * years later they were brought back out for the Type R, Bathurst and also the Spirit R and Type RZ RX7's.

The SP has a different front brake caliper to standard and reworked ABS to match the braking system size.

The brake rotors are simply the stock sized units but vastly better than the std Mazda offering, I run Project Mu rotors front and rear with Project Mu pads. The car makes so much horse power and velocity that I broke a rear disk rotor last time I had it out on a race track! they just cannot handle repeated high velocity stops at full braking power. Sure if it was like the stock SP with only ~350bhp in race trim it could do it for 12 hours straight like they did in competition, but with now 600+bhp not a chance :)

[RICE RACING]

Here is a great series of video's on Japs and Rotaries and other inferior cars, pay particular attention to the PANSPEED as dynoed on dynapak dyno..... LOL I was making 478rwhp on 1.2kg/cm on a street port 10+ years ago with bush bearing T04S @ 1.2kg/cm on a 2nd gen T2 engine block http://www.riceracing.com.au/water-injection.htm , V's them with T04Z, bridge port and FD 13B-REW motor ...... :Wconfused: pretty shit power band to match on the bridge port too!!! and needing race fuel to do the peak 503 rear hub HP

You will also notice the Cyber EVO doing a massive 343rwkw or 460PS on our dyno dynamics system @ haltech .......... LOL if you ever were in doubt as to how low Australia dynos read compared to exaggerator 3000 units you run in America LOL :Chevy_anim: Remember ND4SPD RX2 = 448rwkw or 602 rwhp!@!!@ water injected!!!

Interesting viewing indeed!

My RICESP on 1.85kg/cm with stock std 13B-REW would easily out accelerate these "worlds best time attack powered machines" despite it weighting allot more LOL all on normal pump petrol and RR WATER INJECTION High boost runs coming to a forum near you in 2012 FACT v' FICTION LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DSv1EBLxxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjDxBirtGJM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNVWSf3LOgI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkhM6EHWJGg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTAt8YmudVA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIKXDfx6MAU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3k9fSfzlXo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlJfcVg_uJk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkSTNCt7-Eg

[Mazdabater]

Wtac machines aren't all just about power though, I have alot of respect for that cyber evo the things incredible.

[RICE RACING]

Wtac machines aren't all just about power though, I have alot of respect for that cyber evo the things incredible.

The only thing incredible is how a piece of shit like that in engineering terms is so well thought off LOL.

It is a full on nugget in many respects, engine wise in the majority it's a joke, honestly :ack2: The turbo is a full on piece of shit in the extreme! It shows you just how fucked they are to protest a real engine like in the Sierra Sierra EVO because it was 30+kph faster down the main straight at Eastern Creek :bowdown: < Now power is everything :cheers2:

WTAC really is just a hack class for drop outs and plastic trophy racers, nobodies in the scheme of things honestly. :uhh: It's far too hyped up in the extreme really..... There are hundreds of other cars in all sorts of classes that would totally wipe the floor with these pieces of shit. European Rally Cross cars 10 years ago were racing reliably with 850bhp to 950bhp from 2lt turbo 4 cylinders!!! IMHO Porsche ran the 917/30 in endurance races with 1100bhp!!! in the 1970's!!!! makes WTAC look like a chump "sport" which it is honestly :tongue1:
Fuck Toyota ran a 3SGTE motor at 2.1lt with single turbo in American Endurance race trim @ 950bhp! in 1992 with an Atari Game Console for an ECU! passing 4 rotor R26B powered cars like they were standing still!!!! *its all been done before to a much much higher level* BMW ran stock block 4cyl 2.1lt turbo in the same IMSA series at 900bhp! on mechanical injection! in the mid 1980's!!!! same engine they used in F1 that proven to make over 1300bhp in high boost form @ 1.5lt capacity and only 10500rpm!

I do like that back yard nothing high school drop out workshop owners and groupies can run cars though. Eventually the novelty of Time Attack will filter down and you may see some serious engineering and talent come into it. I for one wont be impressed till you see 1000+bhp 2lt turbo cars running around, then they will be where real professional were at 30 years ago IMHO :ack2:

These cars should really be in the ~1300bhp and all 4WD range to be up to modern standards and technology, there is no reasons why not, except there is no real engineering "talent" there to run such cars as they are ALL in real forms of motorsports across the globe..

[RICE RACING]

Anyway of enough talk of other cunts, here is some more angles of RICESP, the new rear tires look SICK! I love the way it sits. And the mega motor set up, cant stop looking at this, hard to believe something so stock looking (for a genuine SP!) makes so so much power!!! :coolgleamA: From concept to proven performer :coolgleamA:

:conehead:


http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1723/img3815donmega.jpg

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/11/img3740donmega.jpg

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6563/img3719donmega.jpg

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/6248/img3748donmega.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9582/img3709donmega.jpg

[FC3S Murray]

Damn that youtube vid you posted in the Fd section was amazing. That is one FAST fd3s!!!!! Now post yours dammit!

[RICE RACING]

Damn that youtube vid you posted in the Fd section was amazing. That is one FAST fd3s!!!!! Now post yours dammit!

Yes it is! it btw is the only other "credible" documented RX7 to post up anything like proof of its "claimed power"... a total credit to the owner builder :coolgleamA:

In the new year I'll do up a few video's, might even get a new HD camera? and work on a few different angles to capture the immense speed of my own RICESP :auto: since I know how much all you boys love seeing real rotary street cars that are fast and reliable :coolgleamA: part of the motivation is to inspire others and also show them while at the same time debunking allot of the bullshit and mis information sprouted out by nobodies/high school drop out shop owners/self proclaimed experts on rotaries telling you that you need extra dowels, porting, C16, E85, GTXYZ123 turbo's, billet dildo's (insert any other bullshit here) to have a fast and durable car :willy_nilly: The irony of all those < is that non of these cunts have ever produced a real road car that is durable or as fast!!!! *token BS rwhp dyno sheets aside LOL*

:coolgleamA:

[RICE RACING]

Here is an update of the durability (measured by compression) of a stock 13B-REW (from brand new) when run at sustained high power. Taken form my postings on Aquamist Water Injection site.



So a full year on and covered another 6000km (to date: all up 8200km) of testing/racing/top speed trials.
Summary: Every drive has been quite high load 90-140 testing probably around 400 or so of these tests, many 100-200kmh & 60-130mph runs (3rd to top of 4th gear) and a few top speed runs (on special test track :)). Last 3000km at ~500bhp level @ 1.53kg/cm Boost level.

I did one intermediate compression test between the 1800km and this one today, but only wrote those figures down rather than taking a photo/proof. They were close to the ones today.

Rear Rotor
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=104&stc=1&d=1298191592

Front Rotor
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=105&stc=1&d=1298191697

This test was fully dry (engine run till out of fuel) and EGI disconnected, First one cant remember but I think was not as "empty" of excess fluid, this makes a high difference to rotary engine compression readings FYI.

Anyway she is not too bad, I did not think it would hold up this good especially given its a mobile test bed each and every single time it gets driven.

I have it at its new boost level of 1.7bar (around 1.75kg/cm) and it is a rocket :) see if she can make another year of punishment :)

So here is my once annual compression check up of RICESP (3rd year now! ~20,000km covered!)... This is after using the car as my daily driver for over 6 months! and also all of the higher boost settings and reconfiguration I have done over the Christmas break :bowdown:

Rear Rotor
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8529/rearrotor112012.jpg

Front Rotor
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3309/fontrotor112012.jpg

[yzf-r1]

Beautiful car - glad I found this thread

[JhnRX7]

Rice,

How do you like the Ohlins Flag coilovers? I found a used set for sale that I am trying to get ahold of. I know they will be great for the track, but I'm curious how they are suited for street use.

[RICE RACING]

Rice,

How do you like the Ohlins Flag coilovers? I found a used set for sale that I am trying to get ahold of. I know they will be great for the track, but I'm curious how they are suited for street use.

My car is a street car 100%

These shocks are better than in my daily FJ Crusier ;) they are perfect, spring rate at 14kg/cm is very nice for the road too (and you need it at this power level fwiw).

In summary EXCELLENT.

[yzf-r1]

Isn't that 14 kg/mm (780 lb/in)?

[RICE RACING]

Sorry I was thinking boost pressure units hahaha.

Yes 14kg/mm springs.

These are great on the street as the suspension never bottoms even on higher speed undualtions at high power. I ran 8kg springs before in some Tein suspension and it was crap cause as soon as you went over big undualtions at speed the suspension would bottom out.

The ride "quality" is all in the shock absorber setting, the Ohlins I have are perfect for the street when you set the bump and bound correctly.

[RICE RACING]

Here is some pics of the IC spray valve, takes fluid from the WI tank, and some pics of the beast :)

Love it more and more each day, performance is sick as! and it drives just beautifully, power is getting a bit silly on the street though :driving:

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9651/img3827donlarge.jpg

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5718/img3833donlarge.jpg

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4656/img3878donlarge.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1852/img3879donlarge.jpg

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/769/img3902donlarge.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7179/img3966donlarge.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Took the bad boy out today :)

Got it on around 28.5~28.0psi across the useful rev range, about ~1.9bar region.
As the boost is going up the peak power range creeps up, peak is not happening at around 7700rpm to 7800rpm, in 3rd gear I get well over 15psi @ 3800rpm.
The car is very quick and with the new rear tires has a high level of traction to use all of the power this boost level produces (on a decent, dry, straight road surface!@).
Was driving the other day and pulled the 2nd,3rd,4th gear to 8500rpm and a mate herd it over the mountains near where he was, and thought it was a motor bike ! :) crazy bit of gear it is. The acceleration and velocity you can reach on just the shortest stretches of tarmac are extraordinary indeed.

I'll leave it at this setting and enjoy it for a while before again doing the over 2 bar gauge boost long term settings, I'll leave that for our mild autumn/winter/spring period ;)

[sa22c]

620BHP?
0-160kph over 200m? ET 7.? seconds
0-215kph over 400m? ET 11.? seconds

[RICE RACING]

620BHP?
0-160kph over 200m? ET 7.? seconds
0-215kph over 400m? ET 11.? seconds

^ In the winter I will book the air port again and run another test doing those figures.

The extra power has um made my diff create a few extra whines in it :ugh2: Probably the pinion to crown wheel contact has changed (noticeable at 60mph) so I want to change the rear end ratio anyway as the car has soooo much power that it can easily push a much taller gear set. When I go to the effort of doing that I most probably will update the whole drive line at the same time.......... nice dream, only if I want to waste the money on it though *cough tight arse cough* :uhh:

[RICE RACING]

620BHP?
0-160kph over 200m? ET 7.? seconds
0-215kph over 400m? ET 11.? seconds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXYAJWAV7YY

This is great reference for you.

86mph the 638bhp ZR-1 pulls 0.44G Mine 0.570G

110mph 0.31G Mine 0.411G

ZR-1 = 3350lb as tested
RICESP = 2910lb as tested

Power peak for both cars in two different gear (you can guess the power of my car) it's somewhere around/near/over? 600bhp as remember at higher speeds aero dynamic loads play more effect than weight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-SW0H8smRc

100kmh to 200kmh

ZR-1 = about 7.2 seconds
RICESP = 6.2 seconds

[sa22c]

For sure it has to be somewhere above 550BHP genuine.

Do you need to remove the catalyst to achieve the 6.2 second 100-200? I guess I find it a little hard to believe even a 5" body 100 cell could flow 70+lb/min without a fairly drastic pressure drop across it.

I have seen on 2 different piston T4 turbo cars 4" body 200 cell catalysts become big chokes even at 440BHP genuine.

[RICE RACING]

29.1psi today :) carbon wings

Weather is niceeeeee (around 18 deg C this afternoon), car is pooping flames on changes and off large back off's its fucken sick!!! I love it :coolgleamA::coolgleamA::coolgleamA::coolgleamA:

I'm tempted to dial up the mega boost :o11: but its tight as now, so good touch typing can't do it justice :auto: fucken cool to just reach in turn the key, warm the bad boy up and affect the earths rotation as I accelerate down the road :auto: BEAST!!!

[RICE RACING]

Running 2.4 bar gauge boost pressure or just a shade under 35psi, the car kind of accelerates pretty quickly :) Traction is an issue (surprised ha ha) even with the race tires on the back.

100% pump obtained BP Optimax fuel only, no octane boosters needed ;)

Rice Racing RRWEP140 Water Injection wound out to its maximum! *a huge amount of WM50 going through the engine* charge temperature is still under control (better than what I had a couple of years ago running ~17psi boost pressure!) water temp great, engine just loves it. I can't run any more boost pressure on this turbo without greatly over speeding it (it is well off its compressor map now, flow and speed off the charts!) but keeps on making power and the car is just faster in every test I put it through.

This is it for this set up (when my work allows *free time pending* I'll run a couple more tests, post up some performance graphs, maybe even a video). I'll focus my energy on my other long term project that should debut some time soon, where I will really push my development for the ultimate in street rotary powered super car beaters ;)

[Libor]

Peter, there is something I wondered about.
Lately, I've been going through the many recent papers about development of various piston engines with port injected gasoline as base fuel and ethanol/methanol as mean of charge coolant. They tested 3 methods of charge coolant delivery: port injected, direct injected during intake stroke and after intake stroke. Last method allowed highest levels of boost pressure and power without detonation due to highest cooling effect I.e. lowest in-cylinder temperature. Difference was really huge, 1.05 bar for PFI, 2.4 bar for second method and 4 bar for last. Note: very low engine speeds and overall Lambda 1.

So my question basically is, do you use pre-turbo system mainly due to simplicity and reliability? I can see the benefit in cooling of inlet air which can dramatically increase mass flow for any given shaft speed. But with the above in mind, would direct port injection I.e. very close to engine block, be superior for detonation suppression @ given flow rate?

Many people talk about time factor for atomization, and surely, water can absorb huge amount of heat even by the time its in the engine so the heat of compression in the turbo is really not a problem, but isn't it a bit of waste? We want maximum cooling effect in the engine, not in the manifold:o11:

I would be happy for your input:bigear:

[RICE RACING]

Peter, there is something I wondered about.
Lately, I've been going through the many recent papers about development of various piston engines with port injected gasoline as base fuel and ethanol/methanol as mean of charge coolant. They tested 3 methods of charge coolant delivery: port injected, direct injected during intake stroke and after intake stroke. Last method allowed highest levels of boost pressure and power without detonation due to highest cooling effect I.e. lowest in-cylinder temperature. Difference was really huge, 1.05 bar for PFI, 2.4 bar for second method and 4 bar for last. Note: very low engine speeds and overall Lambda 1.

So my question basically is, do you use pre-turbo system mainly due to simplicity and reliability? I can see the benefit in cooling of inlet air which can dramatically increase mass flow for any given shaft speed. But with the above in mind, would direct port injection I.e. very close to engine block, be superior for detonation suppression @ given flow rate?

Many people talk about time factor for atomization, and surely, water can absorb huge amount of heat even by the time its in the engine so the heat of compression in the turbo is really not a problem, but isn't it a bit of waste? We want maximum cooling effect in the engine, not in the manifold:o11:

I would be happy for your input:bigear:

I do my system for simplicity and performance.

A few years ago now I had two special Aquamist systems made for me by Richard (bespoke twin pump set up's) with all kinds of stuff available (pre turbo special rings with center discharge) + individual injectors to place in the ports.

My test was simple:
I ran pre turbo
I ran post IC
I ran pre IC
I ran port injection

The one location that gave me most power was pre turbo, the ones that gave least performance increase were post IC and port injection. I ran a fixed volume of liquid and just changed the location of delivery.

I deduced from my tests that if the pre compressor gave the best acceleration and power that then I could simply use my very own basic RRWEP140 system without much of the complexity and fine orifice injection components that are prone to blockage and failure. That is why I stuck with my own system and its location.

Of interest is the location changes:
You could move the nozzels from pre turbo and to then to the throttle body and have absolutely no increase in acceleration. All other parameters being held equal.

For that test you list above, I'd love to try something like that one day. I'd need to modify some rotor housings and figure out a whole heap of ancillaries to make it a reality, if it works there it should work for rotaries, its just complex to make a reality :smash: Makes sense to me that most of the cooling is happening where it is needed most (during the compression phase), as you say though I wonder what the effects are at Lambda 0.65. It is beyond my realm of experience really. In my own case I just went with a system that is basic and works at conventional setting ranges and gives a measurable performance benefit.

[Libor]

The one location that gave me most power was pre turbo, the ones that gave least performance increase were post IC and port injection. I ran a fixed volume of liquid and just changed the location of delivery.This goes hand in hand with what has been observed here http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=987107

But it still leaves me with scratching head, same tune, same boost, almost same observed AFR and IAT so we can assume same airflow, but at the one point, pre-turbo produced about 10% more power. Maybe just post IC or port injection quenches combustion and hurts cycle a bit more than pre-turbo?

Another thing to propose to Barry for testing:001_302:

[RICE RACING]

This goes hand in hand with what has been observed here http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=987107

But it still leaves me with scratching head, same tune, same boost, almost same observed AFR and IAT so we can assume same airflow, but at the one point, pre-turbo produced about 10% more power. Maybe just post IC or port injection quenches combustion and hurts cycle a bit more than pre-turbo?

Another thing to propose to Barry for testing:001_302:

I doubt you will find any formal text book explanation on this.

All I know is that in ~1994 when I tested this only pre turbo gave an acceleration increase. I later confirmed this to much higher detail when I got my VBOX equipment. The way I do it, it just works, it's flattering to see so many people now copying it word for word part for part spec for spec......... and like now its some kind of amazing discovery when I was 20 years ahead of the game lol.

Lots of great tests were done on this though in the 1960's and 1970's with the fore fathers of after market turbo charging and running WM50 (all pre compressor), find some books called How to select and instal Turbochargers by Hugh McInnes > http://www.amazon.com/Select-Install-Turbochargers-Hugh-MacInnes/dp/0912656050
^ I have an original of the above book! it is worth buying from a historical stand point alone....... I have all of his others too. And this is where I got the idea to try water injection myself when I was a kid still. There is a fantastic book > http://www.fefcholden.org.au/techinfo/supercharge/index.html a good friend of mine lent me his book *he is the man with a 36psi 1970's old Holden in line 6 running tripple SU carburettors that I VBOX tuned and tested in my Aquamist thread)... All these pioneers ALL talk about water injection and its benefit and all run pre compressor.

[RICE RACING]

0 to100 m.p.h. in 14 seconds in a HR Holden
by Eldred Norman


Chapter 6 - Water As An Anti-Detonant

A British Thermal Unit, B.T.U. for short, is the amount of heat required to raise the temperature of one pound of water one degree Fahrenheit. To completely vaporize a pound of water requires about 800 B.T.Us. A pound of methanol requires about 450 B.T.Us. and a pound of petrol about 130 B.T.Us.

Now the colder we can keep the charge density being introduced into the cylinder the greater will be it's density, through contraction, and the more we will get into the cylinder prior to compression.

One of the disadvantages of supercharging is that it tends to pre-heat the mixture which results in some loss of volumetric efficiency, but in any case, from the time that the charge enters the cylinder head until it is finally compressed the charge increases in temperature.

After it leaves the supercharger or in the case of the unblown motor, the carburetor, there are only two sources which can be responsible for this increase. First, friction in negotiating tortuous passages and second, by conduction from the heated walls of these passages. Some of this heat is communicated to the air and some to the fuel in the air/fuel mixture. But the petrol only represents one thirteenth of the weight of the total mixture and since it can absorb only 130 B.T.Us. per pound before vaporization a considerable portion of it does become vaporized during this period. This of course results in expansion and loss of efficiency.

Now turning to methanol as a fuel. In this case the combustible mixture consists of about five parts of air to one of fuel by weight. This means that there is two and a half times as much fuel to absorb the heat, but in addition methanol requires three times the number of B.T.Us. per pound to vaporize it. In all it proves to be more than seven times as effective as petrol in controlling temperature rises in the induction.

It is generally recognized that a change to methanol fuel in the right air/fuel proportions, will increase the power of any engine by about 10% and this with no other changes. With the supercharged engine, it can give power increases up to 25% because as I said earlier, all superchargers, by compression, raise the temperature of the charge.

So effective is methanol in reducing temperatures that it is quite common under humid conditions, to see a supercharged car come in after a hard race, with the entire supercharger and manifold encased in ice. I said earlier that the latent heat value of water is again double that of methanol, but of course it is not a fuel and can play no part in the combustion process. It has been suggested that water admitted in droplet form would be instantaneously converted to steam by the 2300 degree C temperature of the combustion, and, as steam, would combine any red hot carbon particles to form carbon-monoxide, thus preventing the depositing of carbon on the walls of the combustion chamber.

This may or may not be so. I am not competent to pronounce on such a matter. I do know this, however. The combustion chambers of engines using water inhalation are remarkably free from carbon deposits when compared with those where water is not used.

In the late nineteen forties a certain petrol company in the U.S.A. carried out a number of tests which involved the introduction of appreciable quantities of water in atomized form, into the air/fuel mixture. In conclusion they decided that if water could be correctly introduced in the ratio of one volume of water to three of petrol, it was possible to operate satisfactorily two units of a compression ratio higher than with petrol alone. That is that a petrol which would operate on a ratio of say eight to one, could be used on ten to one if water was introduced in the above proportions.

The findings of this company have been confirmed by my own experiments except that I find that with the supercharged car it is necessary to use water at slightly higher rate than this.

It might be thought that the introduction of water would lead to misfiring. I have passed a gallon of water through a three litre motor in seventy seconds at 5000 r.p.m. without a trace of misfiring.

Unfortunately the use of water raises two problems.

First, where to carry the water in sufficient quantity, so that re-watering will not be an intolerable nuisance. And second, how best to introduce it to the motor.

There is no real solution to the first of these problems. A five gallon tank of water is quite bulky and occupies an appreciable amount of space in the boot of an average sedan. A two gallon tank can be fitted under the bonnet of most cars today ( together with the supercharger) but is only good for about 100 miles of hard driving.

With regard to the second part of the problem there are many difficulties. I have tried many methods, none of them entirely satisfactory, since some consideration must be given to cost. At first glance the problem seems simple enough. Use a small water carburetor in parallel with the fuel carburetor and interconnect them so that they open together and make the fuel carburetor slightly over rich to compensate for the extra air introduced by the water carburetor. But, we don't want to take in any water unless we have a positive boost in the manifold. This is where the first of the complications arise. We must introduce a valve between the water carburetor and the supercharger inlet manifold and which is opened by a positive manifold pressure from the outlet manifold , acting on a diaphragm. This is well enough but still not satisfactory , because we find that if we open the throttle fully at say 25 m.p.h. we get a positive boost which opens the valve between the small water carburetor and the intake manifold but because the main petrol carburetor is wide open there is not sufficient vacuum to introduce much water just when we want it most. Also the more the speed increases the lower become the compression pressures but the amount of water being introduced is increasing as the pressure falls in the induction manifold. Clearly the small water carburetor is not a satisfactory method.

As I have said I have tried many methods, but only two are reasonably satisfactory. The least complex of the two is to use the backpressure of the exhaust to pressurize a water tank and to force water from a tank via a small jet into the throat of the petrol carburetor. The water tank must be arranged or located below the level of the carburetor so that water cannot feed by gravity into the engine. If it is located in the boot it is as well to provide a tap in the line in case the car has to be parked nose down on a steep hill, in which case the carburetor might be lower than the tank. A filter of reasonable capacity should be provided in the line from the tank as the gas from the exhaust which pressurizes the tank can contain particles of carbon. If the water passes through a jet of about .025 this will be approximately the right size. It can be introduced into the carburetor via one of the choke spindle holes if the choke assembly is removed, this latter being superfluous with all carburetors fitted with an accelerator pump.

The pipe from the exhaust manifold to the tank should be fairly large, say about five sixteenths O.D. It should be passed through the manifold where the various branches have united, and the end should be directed by means of a slight bend inside the manifold, so that it faces into the exhaust flow.

The reason for the large pipe is so that the air cavity in the tank responds quickly to variations in the exhaust pressure. The tank of course must have a sealed filler. This very simple system has faults, the chief of which is the delay in response to pressure variations particulary when the tank is fairly empty. For this reason a small tank works better than a large one. Naturally it is impossible in this way to get instantaneous responses and throttle opening must thus be a rather gradual process if pinking is to be avoided.

The system at present employed by me makes use of the supercharger manifold pressure and operates much like a paint spray gun with the atomized water directed into the throat of the carburetor. The spray or injector unit consists of two small nozzles. The water nozzle has an aperture of .050 diameter, and the air jet of .060. They are arranged at right angles so that the tip of the water nozzle slightly intersects the jet of air through the air nozzle. It must be kept as close as possible to the tip of the later so that the velocity of the air is as high as possible when it passes over the water nozzle.

This unit will cause quite a fine spray with pressures as low as 2 p.s.i. The water tank, usually of about two gallons capacity is mounted under the bonnet and as close to the injector unit as possible. It must be arranged so that the water level when the tank is full is about three inches below the tip of the water nozzle. This unit is very effective in operation and also economical of water since it will not operate at all unless there is a positive manifold pressure. With low manifold pressures there is some variation in delivery rate of water, as the level in the tank falls, but it is not very great and it is very slight with the higher manifold pressures which of course are primarily the problem.

With this system it is necessary to use a small non-return valve in the air delivery pipe from the pressure manifold, otherwise there would be an air leak into the manifold when the engine is idling.

When mounting the water tank, it is advisable to so locate it that the water level in its relationship to the water jet does not vary when the car is parked on a steep hill. For instance if the tank is put in the boot and the car is facing downhill the water would flow out of the water jet by gravity.

If twin carburetors are employed on the supercharger it is advisable to use two of the injector units otherwise some cylinders are likely to be more favored than others in respect of water droplets.

[RICE RACING]

Eldred was a very smart **** for his time, In this chapter I got my inspiration to stay with a stock port stock motor, and very high boost, far less engine stresses involved. Not to mention a far better power band on stock engine timing..... :bowdown:


Supercharge!
0 to100 m.p.h. in 14 seconds in a HR Holden
by Eldred Norman


Chapter 3 - Why Supercharge? Why not a general "work over?"

At first sight it might appear that supercharging is an expensive way to get more power. From the manufacturer's point of view it would be so. He can make a big cylinder almost as cheaply as a little one, certainly cheaper than he can supercharge the small one.

This book is not for him. It is for the man who already has a car who looks enviously as a Mustang swings out and surges in safety past a semi-trailer whose diesel fumes he has been inhaling for the last five minutes. Most likely he doesn't know and never will know that supercharged, his car would out-accelerate the Mustang. But there is something of Walter Mitty in all of us.

There are two ways to increase the power of the car engine without actually increasing it in bore and stroke. You can improve the breathing and cylinder filling by fitting larger valves, 'hot' camshaft, extractors, and multi carburetors, and just let the atmospheric pressure do the rest. These things will give you a considerable increase in power but will make little difference to the amount of torque. They will however move the maximum torque figure much higher up the rev. range, and since torque times revolutions per minute is the basis of horsepower, the latter will have increased materially. This increased power with the right gearing must mean higher top speed and more acceleration.

Power obtained in this way however has some disadvantages. If we have moved the maximum torque point from say 2000 to 4000 r.p.m. and if we are using one gear mainly, such as top gear, we have moved the maximum acceleration period from 40 to 80 m.p.h. This might be good on the race track where we never go as slowly as 40, but is not much use for city driving. Also, and of great importance is the fact that the usable torque range forms a smaller proportion of the total rev. range as the maximum r.p.m. figure is lifted.
For example an engine might have a reasonable torque range operating from 1500 to 3000 r.p.m. with peak b.h.p. at 4500. That is we have torque for one-third of the rev. range. Now if we raise the maximum r.p.m. to 6000 with hot bits, we find that we get the same or less torque range starting at 3000 and going up to 4500. This represents only a quarter of the available revs. This means we need a four speed box to go with our hot motor.

Racing cars with high power outputs are often out-accelerated by cars of lesser power but with a better torque range.

The supercharged motor presents a very different picture. Let us assume that we take a completely standard engine and we supercharge it sufficiently to put out the same maximum b.h.p as the 'worked motor'.

We find here that because the supercharger becomes more efficient as the revs increase, so does the engines breathing and filling improves. We find that maximum power occurs at a figure slightly higher than that with the unblown standard motor but nowhere near as high as with the 'hot' motor. We find that the torque range which originally occupied a third of maximum revs. now occupies something over half as compared with the quarter in the case of the 'hot' motor. Also the maximum torque figure will have gone up more than proportionally when compared with the b.h.p. increase. In fact so much will the torque have increased that using top gear it will out-accelerate the 'hot' motor in second. There is however one drawback, it will now be very undergeared. The hot motor will have the higher top speed unless the final drive of the 'blown' motor is changed.

A standard 1963 EJ Holden was fitted with slightly larger valves and double valve springs. With the normal manifold and carburetor it had a top speed of 84 m.p.h. It was supercharged at 10 lbs. and road tested by the Adelaide 'Advertiser'. The maximum top speed was found to be a mean 102 m.p.h. The car was then fitted with a 32% Laycock overdrive. No changes were made to the motor or boost. Top speed then increased to 124 m.p.h. in overdrive. As I mentioned before a supercharged motor does reach the point of maximum power at slightly higher revs than the same motor would reach 'un-blown'. For practical purposes when supercharged the engine will reach a peak power point in r.p.m. equal to the original peak power revs times the cube root of the absolute pressure and divided by the cube root of atmospheric pressure.

As an example:-
Peak power revs unblown:
4500
Maximum boost: 14.7 + 7 = 21.7 lbs. absolute
R.P.M. blown equals
(about)
(equals about) 5010 R.P.M

It might be thought that maximum power when supercharged would increase proportionately by the amount by which the maximum absolute pressure exceeds the atmospheric pressure. This is not so for two reasons. The adiabatic increase in temperature of the charge because of the increase in pressure; and second, an increase in pressure does not mean the same proportion of increase in volume passing through a fixed aperture. One atmosphere of pressure might pass 100 cubic feet of air a minute through a 1" hole but two atmospheres would not pass double the amount. The harder you blow the more is the turbulence and skin friction. For this reason if top performance is being sought when supercharged, large manifolds and large valves are even more important than they are with the unblown motor. An obstruction to a gas moving with a velocity of 200 feet per second is more that twice as great if the velocity is doubled. This is the main reason that torque rises faster that b.h.p when supercharging.

Actually the torque increases more than the increase in the ratio which the absolute pressure bears to the atmospheric pressure. This is because not only does the quantity of material for combustion increase in the cylinder under supercharging, but that extra quantity is itself responsible for an increase in compression pressure since it must be compressed into the same space as with the unblown motor.

Although the same rules relating to manifold and valve restrictions apply with regard to maximum torque figures they naturally do not have as much effect as they have on maximum b.h.p. since maximum torque occurs at much lower revs. When much less air/fuel is being passed. A valve which forms almost no obstruction to the passage of 20 cubic feet of air a minute may pass 30 'under slight protest' if however we try to pass 60 through it we may easily fail.

A 179 Holden on a wheel dynamometer gave 69 b.h.p at the wheels at 3500 r.p.m. unsupercharged. The same motor with a boost of 6 lbs. ( 20.7 absolute) gave 112 b.h.p. at the same revs. This represents a 61% increase in torque for a theoretical 41% increase in air/fuel volume.

People have often said to me "of course ports and manifolds don't matter as much when supercharged." If torque is all they want, fair enough, you can still get fairly good results through the standard manifold. But if you want 400 b.h.p from three litres you can't simply blow a standard engine at 25 lbs. You won't get it that way. You must work over the engine as if you were after the maximum power unblown and then use a supercharger big enough to give a 12 lb. supercharge on top of that.

Of course if you simply want 200b.h.p. for road use on pump fuel, you can get it with nothing more than the supercharger, and you can have a nice drivable city car that attracts no attention at the traffic lights.

Now compare the installation costs of the supercharger against those of the 'hot bits' method. The former will cost you about $400 fitted or thereabouts.

A head, ported and polished with larger valves will cost you about $130. Three one and three quarter S.U carburetors will cost you about $180. A 25/65 cam about $25. Extractor exhaust system about $70. A total cost of $405. In fact almost identical with the cost of supercharging.

Then comparing them on the road for performance all round. The supercharged car will be docile and smooth in traffic in top gear. It will accelerate from as low as 10 m.p.h. in top without snatch or jerk. It will go from 20 m.p.h. to 100 m.p.h. with out a gear change in about 20 seconds. If no change has been made in the final ratio, top speed will be about 105 m.p.h. In fact, it will be very similar to driving the 5 litre V8 except that it will have more acceleration than the later and a slightly lower top speed. Most drivers would think that it did not really require more than two gears unless a caravan was to be pulled. In top gear it would accelerate up a one in four grade and with a ton load behind, it would be much on par with an unladen standard Holden.

For city driving fuel consumption would be down some two miles per gallon and the same on a country trip. Pulling a caravan it would be about two miles per gallon better than the unblown car. The reason for this last is that even with the caravan, gears are hardly ever needed.

Now to take the unblown car. It would not be as easy to drive in traffic. Much more gear work would be required as it would not operate satisfactorily under 30 m.p.h. in top gear. Using the gears it would accelerate to 100 in much the same time as the blown car provided lots of revs. were used in the gears. It would have a top speed of about 110 m.p.h., possibly slightly more if the final ratio were lowered slightly.

Fuel consumption would fall by about four miles per gallon for city driving, that is 2 m.p.g. less than the blown car ( because of the constant gear work), and in the country it would be about one mile to the gallon better than the blown car. If pulling a caravan it would do some four miles per gallon worse than the blown car, and be most unpleasant to drive because of it's inability to pull slowly in top gear.

Wear-wise, at the end of 50,000 miles the blown car would be in far better condition. The gearbox would have done less than a quarter of the work since top gear is a straight through drive. Assuming both cars had been driven at the same average speed for the distance, the load transmitted would have been the same in both cases, in respect of the differential, but the constant gear changing with the unblown car would probably show up in increased backlash.

I am often asked how the crankshaft and bearings stand up to supercharging. Put quite simply it is easier on the motor than any other method of increasing the power to the back wheels.

Off all the forces operating in an engine the pressure of the explosion on the piston is by far the least. This pressure could be doubled and it would still not represent 10% of the stresses at work. Moreover, one of the greatest forces, centrifugal force, increases by the square of the proportion of the increase in r.p.m. This means that this force is two and a quarter times as great at 6000 r.p.m. as it is at 4000. From this it can be seen that supercharging is much easier on the motor than increasing the r.p.m. by improving the breathing.

[RICE RACING]

Got a log today of a 33.2psi peak boost run! when my internet goes off gay cock speed I'll up "load" them ;)

I still cant get rid of the smile off my face after driving it today, thing is just a fucking animal ! :Chevy_anim:

[RICE RACING]

Here is pics as promised c7nts

Parameters at start of test (before starting engine) 18deg C day
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11836&stc=1&d=1334553373

Mid range mega boost, 33.2psi!
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11834&stc=1&d=1334553828

1.742 seconds 90kmh to 140kmh! excellent charge temps, mega boost
http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11835&stc=1&d=1334553297

[RICE RACING]

Forgot to add, did 100kmh to 169kmh in ~3.71 seconds on the ECU log (0.4 seconds faster to that point than when I did my 6.25 second 100kmh to 200kmh run on lower boost), ran out of test track to do 200kmh test, and only did easy shifting 3rd to 4th, with flat shift (on the race logic traction control) and run it out to 200kmh it will do this in the high 5 second range easy. This car is QUICK!

Log
http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11837&stc=1&d=1334559123

[RICE RACING]

Image Shack eats balls! hope this works now.

Conditions at start of test, 18 deg C Ambient
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/7628/testconditionsatstartof.jpg

Mid range boost 33.2 psi Blitz boost SBC I-Color
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/8448/midrangeboost220kpaecul.jpg

90kmh to 140kmh 3rd gear test std power band test, very quick.
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/8775/90to140kmh33psiruneculo.jpg

100kmh to 169kmh = 3.71 seconds short test
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/869/100kmhto169kmh371second.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Took a nice pic the other day :auto:
Need to upgrade some performance specs soon too :coolgleamA:

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/4118/img4044clean.jpg

[RICE RACING]

This is the standard RICE RACING "3rd gear power band test" (~4500rpm to ~7500rpm).
90kmh to 140kmh = 1.91 seconds!
http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/5250/191secvbox30psisicbro.jpg

[RICE RACING]

Race Logic VBOX proven ;)

Anyway this year *time pending* the power train set up is being optimized further, still looking 100% standard factory RX7SP under the hood
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1723/img3815donmega.jpg
:coolgleamA: just more power with matching performance increase (not just token BS dyno sheet guesses that don't add up with reality like others lol).

100kmh to 200kmh in sub 5 second range? ......... wif 13B in a real road car not running poofter juice? :fawk:
check the FAST FD thread :willy_nilly:

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=14704

Acceleration tests of FD rotary RX7's (VBOX data only accepted) verified by RICE RACING.
Only will accept flat road runs, any downward slopes greater then ~1.5 degree's over the length of the test will be rejected
Ranked FASTEST to SLOWEST
A little background information on acceleration times in gear/s: To do half the time of a stock weight FD you need basically double the power (simple), if you can do it in 1/3rd of the time you need 3 times the power (simple again) and so on it goes..... In your VBOX log the distance taken to achieve the speed is also exactly half if you had half the time taken, thus double the power (see proven example at end of post) eg: double the power also equals double the acceleration (Longitudinal G force average) *IT ALL ADDS UP IN REALITY! real world testing!!!*. These test really do separate the bullshit (dyno sheets) from the reality of practical acceleration tests.SEE EXAMPLE TEST @ BOTTOM OF THIS POST

OFFICIAL LIST
100kmh to 200kmh (Any gear or gears you like!)
User name - Time (seconds) - basic spec
smg944 - 5.12 sec - C16 water injected 27psi 525rwhp http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=14704
RICE RACING - 5.70 sec - 93 oct water injected 31psi run stock standard 13B-REW http://www.riceracing.com.au/RiceSPGallery.htm
Ferrari ENZO - 5.80 sec - Blueprinted rebuilt motor (est 687bhp, 1505kg run weight) > http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=141406422&posted=1#post141406422
"A new engine is $250K USD and a re-built one from the factory is about $150K. We did ours for under $100K."
Ferrari ENZO - 6.20 sec - Factory motor > http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=141406422&posted=1#post141406422
RICE RACING - 6.25 sec - 93 oct water injected 24psi run stock standard 13B-REW http://www.aquamist.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1590&page=3
smg944 - 6.39 sec - 93 oct water injected 23psi 473rwhp
Ferrari F40 - 6.74sec sec - The super car reference, 1421kg run weight ~500bhp catless http://www.carobu.com/F40%20LM%20510hp%20dyno.html
Docmar - 6.90 sec - 93 oct 22psi 2 people in car http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_forum/showthread.php?t=14704&page=3
smg944 - 8.27 sec - 93 oct 16psi gt35r medium street port 407whp
smg944 - 9.08 sec - 93 oct 16psi my streetported motor, stock twins non seq PFC
Jose - 9.52 sec - 93 oct 17psi streetported motor t04e or 57mm turbo
Dan McVicker - 9.99 sec - 93 oct 12psi streetported motor copy T04R or 67mm turbo 235~240rwkw VBOX power 1385kg test weight
Nathan - 10.82 sec - 93 oct 18.5psi RF420 twins
Kila13B - 15.52 sec - 93 oct 15psi 100% stock std RX7 Spirit R Type A





90mh to 140kmh (3rd gear only) power band acceleration test ~4500rpm to ~8000rpm < *rough rpm range* for typical FD's
User name - Time (seconds) - basic spec
smg944 - 1.83sec sec - C16 water injected 27psi 525rwhp *NOTE* unofficial as 3 to 2.5 degree down slope over run
RICE RACING - 1.91sec - 93 oct water injected 31psi run stock standard 13B-REW http://imageshack.us/f/806/191secvbox30psisicbro.jpg
smg944 - 2.18 sec - C16 water injected 27psi 525rwhp
RICE RACING - 2.26 sec - 93 oct water injected 24psi run stock standard 13B-REW
smg944 - 2.59 sec - 93 oct water injected 23psi 473rwhp
Nathan - 3.25 sec - 93 oct 18.5psi RF420 twins http://www.riceracing.com.au/vbox-iii-testing-tuning.htm
smg944 - 3.26 sec - 93 oct 16psi gt35r medium street port 407whp
Jose - 3.48 sec - 93 oct 17psi streetported motor t04e or 57mm turbo
Dan McVicker - 3.81 sec - 93 oct 12psi streetported motor copy T04R or 67mm turbo 235~240rwkw VBOX power 1385kg test weight
Russ - 4.21 sec - 93 oct 10psi stock port motor BNR TWINS
Kila13B - 5.70 sec - 93 oct 15psi 100% stock std RX7 Spirit R Type A http://www.riceracing.com.au/vbox-iii-testing-tuning.htm
Docmar -


OFFICIAL LIST of some real fast tuned & factory super cars & a few shit box porsches mixed in as well
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9423/performancetable.gif

EXAMPLE TEST OF PROOF OF POWER RELATIONSHIP TO TIMES TAKEN TO ACCELERATE
This is another interesting comparison: From my collection of VBOX tests http://www.riceracing.com.au/vbox-iii-testing-tuning.htm
90kmh to 135kmh (best power gearing for the stock RX7) see rpm logging.

RICESP V Spirit R Type A (stock standard)

Car specs:
Spirit R Type A
1335kg as run
280PS factory rated engine (100% stock std no mods at all)
Car ran 0-100kmh in 5.55 seconds & 13.85 second @ 104.78mph RR V-BOX Recorded for 1/4 mile *no roll out*
Time = 5.06 seconds & 158 meters

RICESP:
~21psi Rice Racing Engineered Water Injected Monster :)
1310kg as run
Power is over double a factory RX7 (see actual VBOX RR rwkw measure) so roughly double the power, double the acceleration & half the time required to do it and distance as well :)
Time = 2.21 seconds & 69 meters

VBOX File report
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/7387/ricespvspirtrrtypeastoc.jpg

Another power analysis graph of RICESP using VBOX3i instrument
This is another interesting comparison: From my collection of VBOX tests http://www.riceracing.com.au/vbox-iii-testing-tuning.htm
Here is the 3 rd gear acceleration of the stock RX7 SP, tested by Motor Magazine with Correvit digital timing.

RX7SP stock 1995 test
204kw
276bhp claimed power factory rated engine (100% stock std no mods at all)

100kmh = 0 sec
110kmh = 0.87 sec
120kmh = 1.83 sec
130kmh = 2.84 sec
140kmh = 4.58 sec

RICESP
You guess the power :)

100kmh = 0 sec
110kmh = 0.51 sec
120kmh = 0.99 sec
130kmh = 1.51 sec
140kmh = 2.01 sec

http://www.ausrotary.com/images/reference/rx7sp/motor/motor9e.jpg

VBOX proof of my figures at mid range boost on our list, HIGH BOOST VBOX runs to come stay tuned :)
O.K. Remember pump petrol/gasoline here only ! ***OFFICIAL VBOX test results***

90kmh-140kmh = 2.26 seconds!
100kmh-150kmh = 2.39 seoconds!
100kmh-200kmh = 6.25 seconds!

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6964/img3966don1.jpg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7215/img3886don1.jpg

Still on old tires, and showing about 24psi boost on the VBOX, and ~330rwkw VBOX POWER

Tested at 1320kg run weight and 25 deg C ambient day, still doing boost learning procedure so there is a bit more in at this level and fuel mixture set rich to be on safe side.

Fact V's Fiction

Will put up some VBOX graphs when I get them off the lap dancer top

[WE3RX7]

So a 911 RS is still faster by almost a half a second 0-400m, is that what the take away is? :)

[RICE RACING]

So a 911 RS is still faster by almost a half a second 0-400m, is that what the take away is? :)

And a Ford Pinto is about 3 minutes faster than an RX3 lol.

[RICE RACING]

The RX7SP dominated the full race 911RSCS, beating it by over a lap at the 12hr race and the BMW M3R's were too scared to even show up to get beaten by the mighty SP :)

Mazda baited the German kuuunts pretty good, they hid a fair bit of their performance until race day, where they came out and simply dominated them lol.

4 years later another RX7SP won a 3 hr race at Bathurst beating Ferrari F355, 911's, Lotus, Honda, Nissan GTR's, all other kinds of pretenders....... It was so good they banned it from GTP racing after that LOL.

Legendary car.

[RICE RACING]

So a 911 RS is still faster by almost a half a second 0-400m, is that what the take away is? :)

As a funny side note:
True story verified by Mazda Factory, the SP cars were mandated by the factory to run with THREE! welded in washers of 2.5" size along the 3" after market exhaust! this was done to reduce the mass flow and thus power of the "released to public cars" (25 originals that were made) Walker manufacturing who were contracted to make the systems indeed confirmed that this is what they did and when I got my car (still fitted with Walker factory 3" SP exhaust), it did have the welded in washers LOL!!!!

Soon as you removed these the car had another 50++bhp more! and was very quick indeed. Much faster than in that article, I had allot of testing of the original SP set up with non molested restricted exhaust. For a twin turbo factory set up they were fast as for the period. Mine had around 380bhp in unrestricted & tuned ECU form.

In its current guise it has double that again! should get around to posting up some new specifications :)

[RICE RACING]

DILDO CANNON

http://imageshack.us/a/img689/1255/img5119crazygayjunior.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img35/9964/img5117crazygayjunior.jpg

[ROT8WA]

Hows my favourite sausage lover doing... hello from Perth W.A

Lots of LOVE & KISSES.. Adamski

That sounds as Gay as BUM AIDS, but i know you'll like it.

[RICE RACING]

Dildo Cannon in your face

http://imageshack.us/a/img12/2395/img5146crazygayjunior.jpg

[ROT8WA]

In its current guise it has double that again! should get around to posting up some new specifications :)

Would be nice to see some...hurry up stop talking shit and wack some up..

[RICE RACING]

Would be nice to see some...hurry up stop talking shit and wack some up..

Do NOT confuse this for a Fact V's Fiction thread on gayclub.com :o21:
NO shit talk
ONLY world leading results
Go check the FAST FD thread for names of cunts who actually have cars that run and are fast. there is only a few of us.

Some other cunts should take a 'leaf' and lead by example :ugh2:

I'll post up what I want & when I feel like it, till then eat a cock! OR get off your arse and do some hard work yourself :biggthumpup:

So when I feel like it you will see some, till then get on the DILDO CANNON :tongue1:

[Topgear]

Nice tubs Peter ;) borg all the way baby which one did you go for ?


I'm just waiting on my intercooler and then I'm ready for that map :)

Craig

[RICE RACING]

Nice tubs Peter ;) borg all the way baby which one did you go for ?


I'm just waiting on my intercooler and then I'm ready for that map :)

Craig

It is a S400SX3-82 (1300+bhp & 5.2PR capacity) weight is 17.2kg, its a little one.

No worries let me know and I will hook you up. :biggthumpup:

[Topgear]

Sexy it's the next up from mine your car will be mega as always

[RICE RACING]

Sexy it's the next up from mine your car will be DON MEGA as always

correct :coolgleamA: :auto:

[ROT8WA]

Do NOT confuse this for a Fact V's Fiction thread on gayclub.com :o21:
NO shit talk
ONLY world leading results
Go check the FAST FD thread for names of cunts who actually have cars that run and are fast. there is only a few of us.

Some other cunts should take a 'leaf' and lead by example :ugh2:

I'll post up what I want & when I feel like it, till then eat a cock! OR get off your arse and do some hard work yourself :biggthumpup:

So when I feel like it you will see some, till then get on the DILDO CANNON :tongue1:

BLAH Blah Blah....... see what I mean...need I say more.
I wasn't stating anything other than the fact that shit talk persay meant your acute case of verbal diarrhea you farken wogbogan.

Not a bad choice of turbo, remember it would have been about a year ago when I almost went the S362 FMW as it was a lot of turbo for 1000 bucks..

I take it you will be running this new unit of yours at its max pressure ratio...?

P.S next time you take a pic of your turbo can you throw in a ruler as your disproportionately small feet make it look farken huge... or should I just call you christy lol

[RICE RACING]

Probably around 6psi to 7psi boost should be enough.

[Mutaku]

Such a beautiful car, great build man. The turbo makes me happy in pants...

[ROT8WA]

Probably around 6psi to 7psi boost should be enough.


Lol, I thought you said that your doing your tuning on the top of mount everest...and that you were just waiting on a fresh load of sherpas

[RICE RACING]

Such a beautiful car, great build man. The turbo makes me happy in pants...


Thanks mate,

Yes it is jizzfactor3000 good.
I have allot of parts for the next stage.
Life Racing F88
OS Giken gearbox
Host of other stuff.......

When I get time I will post up some more.

[RICE RACING]

More detail pics of the UNIT!

http://imageshack.us/a/img441/9669/img5137habib.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img855/1543/img5139habib.jpg

Habib says: "Spool up the mouse mincer 3000"
http://imageshack.us/a/img16/3826/img5149habib.jpg

[chibikougan]

Kittay is not amused! Exactly how much boost you planning to run through Kittay?

Will your cat be faster then a Cheetah after the install?

[RICE RACING]

Kittay is not amused! Exactly how much boost you planning to run through Kittay?

Will your cat be faster then a Cheetah after the install?

I wont do any BDC or HC style predictions, I'll make it, prove it, then post it, just like all the other stages of RICESP development ;)

Will take a while as I am fitting it around full time commitments, but I am gagging for it just like TTT is over a soldering iron :smilielol5:

[MaczPayne]

^lol

[RICE RACING]

BLAH Blah Blah....... see what I mean...need I say more.
I wasn't stating anything other than the fact that shit talk persay meant your acute case of verbal diarrhea you farken wogbogan.

Not a bad choice of turbo, remember it would have been about a year ago when I almost went the S362 FMW as it was a lot of turbo for 1000 bucks..

I take it you will be running this new unit of yours at its max pressure ratio...?

P.S next time you take a pic of your turbo can you throw in a ruler as your disproportionately small feet make it look farken huge... or should I just call you christy lol

The turbo looks big the first time you see it, but really it is not that big :icon_tup:

Then again.............................. it is funny seeing peoples reactions when they see it haha. But it's just a normal sized turbo for the application and power rating. Think of it like a Benetton BMW F1 car :) :001_005: only better! cause its a rotary!

I'll accumulate some of the other bits and pieces (of spares I have in stock) and take the picture you are looking for in the next couple of weeks, trying to fit time around work is hard but I will try for you mate.

The Life Racing F88 ECU and me doing all of the wiring and install was time consuming but worth it, fully integrated system and the level to which its utilized is unheard of in rotary circles anywhere. It's a great piece far better than any of the other retail toys & pay to play hyped up window frame alloy extrusion self tapper screw gold shit boxes I have used to date.

Running a revolutionary RRWEP4000 water injection system that is integrated within the ECU mapping strategy, and while its not every ones bag, or something that could be retailed like my other main stream offering, what it can do so far in testing is just gagfactor5000!

[TitaniumTT]

Hey Peter.... you will have an email in the next few days about your gagfactor5000 WM setup.... I think we're on the same page about how to integrate it but the cobblers son goes barefoot and I haven't really done anything with it since october, but now I'm getting an itch again....

[RICE RACING]

No problem Brian :coolgleamA:

It's a system I copied off Volvo Group A Touring Car, but with my own take, e-mail me and I will tell you how I set it up. But in essence I just have through the LR F88 three stages of injectors running the engine, with a special intake manifold (can be adapted to cosmo or rew) and main fuel system and WM50 system. It's fully automated though and retains a perfect AFR ratio in all combination's and levels of engagement and control modifiers/trims CLC etc, one brain running the whole system basically. Traction control fuel cutting compatible as well.

7psi of boost to 70psi of boost, on pump petrol :auto:

[RICE RACING]

This is an example of how to do it on a ghetto ECU from my mate Frank Profera > http://www.lotussport.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4508&start=240

I prefer WM50 fluid, but the idea and concept and reality is the same so far as consumption, integration, engine performance.

[Brad]

this car needs to enter WTAC!!!!! would definitely clean up in the street class!

[JhnRX7]

This is an example of how to do it on a ghetto ECU from my mate Frank Profera > http://www.lotussport.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4508&start=240

I prefer WM50 fluid, but the idea and concept and reality is the same so far as consumption, integration, engine performance.

I am using the exact same ghetto spec ECU in my FD... They may have had their issues in the past, but they have learned from it and created a very good product this time around (for what it is, its not trying to be a LR unit).

[RICE RACING]

I am using the exact same ghetto spec ECU in my FD... They may have had their issues in the past, but they have learned from it and created a very good product this time around (for what it is, its not trying to be a LR unit).

Yeah that is good to hear that they are better now, everything has its place for sure.

I have been testing many ECU's lately, the current one I have surplus for sale in the FD section, its a PECTEL MQ-12, in custom control ways this is better than the Life Racing F90.

[RICE RACING]

Some better screen set ups and comparisons to multiple laps & different drivers.
Nice to have good electronics package :)

http://imageshack.us/a/img853/4342/f1tw.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img820/3694/zton.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img31/5420/85n.JPEG

My set up :)

http://imageshack.us/a/img593/5512/up39.jpg

Random old school :)

http://imageshack.us/a/img826/8839/bhwr.jpg

[silverfdturbo6port]

Nice! Where do you get all the cool gadgets? They cost a arm and a leg

[RICE RACING]

Nice! Where do you get all the cool gadgets? They cost a arm and a leg

^All over the place^, lots of contacts across the globe so I get allot of stuff, mostly for testing and the persuit of knowledge so then I can talk about it from personal experience perspective........... its my job, so I am always testing out new items, lots of them 'top shelf' :smash:

Cost is relative :suspect:
I learned long ago: A cheap item is a total loss, providing life long frustration + pain V's the temporary initial shock of the costs associated with the highest quality items.

I've never ever regretted buying a top spec item, always been able to use it, enjoy it, then after its served its time, sold it off to others who wanted it, if you look at the whole life cycle of the purchse, the high expense items deserve the consideration as they are a WIN/WIN proposition, v's the low spec shit (plethora of shit!) that are worthless as soon as you take delivery :001_302:

Quality costs! and its cheaper long term + much MUCH more enjoyable and worth while ;)

[silverfdturbo6port]

Makes sense. So its safe to say you probably never been to harbor freight :)

[RICE RACING]

Makes sense. So its safe to say you probably never been to harbor freight :)

Have no idea who they are but am guessing dodgy brothers?

Bought a new (for me) s/h laptop dancer today Dell e6430 i5 2.8jizzahurts 16gb mamory glans and 250gb solid turd disk? ............ fucked if I know the specs etc, but need it to run all of this shit !

Fucken Autosport connectrs hanging out my arse! needed 3 for the dash and car logger ........ expensive cuuuuunts! should have stuck with a microtech ECU and their dash LOL :smilielol5:

http://imageshack.us/a/img13/7480/i9eq.jpg

[RedR1]

I learned long ago: A cheap item is a total loss, providing life long frustration + pain V's the temporary initial shock of the costs associated with the highest quality items.

SO, SO True!! about 10 years ago i used to be ok with buying off-brand or "good enough" products. Now, after tens of thousands of dollars wasted (i'm a slow learner, lmao) I only buy new or top shelf for my specific application. very rarely do i buy used, if it can be avoided.