How hard can it be? DIY brake upgrades

[hIGGI]

Did it ever came across your mind - 'what i am gonna do with my front 4 piston calipers' - after installing something bigger there?
I went to 13" 4 piston Brembo setup couple years ago for front of my drift FC, and having some spare 4 piston calipers, i thought about putting them on the back ....

How hard can it be?


I was already running rear 2005 Ford Mustang GT rotors in the back (300mm) and wanted to keep them...and of course, being able to run stock 16" FC wheels in the back for drift trainings....its easier to find free tires for 16 than 17 or 18....

In the end, its not that hard, nor expensive....but its not one of these afternoon basic upgrades either....

First come rear knuckle. I found spare on the shefl, cleaned it up a little and pressed out old bearing, installed longer wheel studs (from front of FC). All back together here :

http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2069.JPG

http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2070.JPG

http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2071.JPG

Installing longer studs is the reason why you have to take it apart and install new bearing. If you want to use wheel spacers with own studs, you can skip this step.

Bolting on adapter is pretty simple, 3 small bolts and one bigger with spacer...

http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2072.JPG

http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2073.JPG

http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2074.JPG

http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2075.JPG

Then the ring for centering of rotor

http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2076.JPG

And now rotor :

http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2077.JPG

Here we are !

http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2078.JPG

http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2079.JPG


And now, special feature for those who must have something MORE :)

If you have cut the one of the 'eyes' for stock caliper, you can install 2 calipers. In my case it will be one caliper for normal braking and other one for handbrake - independent hydraulic handbrake. Of course, you have run new line for that handbrake...


http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2080.JPG

http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2081.JPG

http://rx7.cz/gallery/qdig-files/converted-images/2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers/med_IMG_2082.JPG

Thats about it now, i will provide more pics and details once i`ll have it on the car, its too cold for fitting it outside :)


Fullsize pics are here :
http://rx7.cz/gallery/?Qwd=./2010-01-07%20-%20Workshop%20177%20-%20dual%20calipers&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=M

[Max777]

damn, that's just too much! Have you considered running a small single piston caliper for the hand brake, or just tying the hand brake into the rear rotors? Two extra calipers seems like a lot of weight for a race car... How's it been working out for you?

[My5ABaby]

That's pretty damn ridiculous. :icon_tup:

[Project10AE]

Ok...

I'll be that guy:

Whats the point?

I don't drift so don't flame me if its 'drift-related'... I just don't see the car stopping that much better (if at all) with so much of it being front brakes anyway?

If its just for the 'science project' of it, then cool!

[hIGGI]

Ok...

I'll be that guy:

Whats the point?

I don't drift so don't flame me if its 'drift-related'... I just don't see the car stopping that much better (if at all) with so much of it being front brakes anyway?

If its just for the 'science project' of it, then cool!

2 calipers is just drift related, they dont work together to combine 'normal' braking power.
I wanted something different, i wanted to change my hydraulic handbrake setup to independent routing and i as well wanted to use parts i had laying at the shelf...
And stock rear brake calipers are more expensive, harder to repair and i was short on spares, while i had plenty of 4 piston calipers...

In the front i have brembos with 2x40 and 2x44mm pistons on 330m rotors.
Rear is 4x36mm i think (or maybe 35mm)

Master brake cylinder is 1" from Mazda 929 and if necessary i might go for 1 and 1/16" from Mazda B4000.

I already purchased adjustable brake bias regulator, will let u know how it works.

[RETed]

Two extra calipers seems like a lot of weight for a race car...

I believe the stock rear brake calipers are iron?

The front calipers are aluminum.

I wouldn't be surprised if the twin front brakes calipers actually weigh less than one stock rear brake caliper...


-Ted

[RETed]

Ok...

I'll be that guy:

Whats the point?

I don't drift so don't flame me if its 'drift-related'... I just don't see the car stopping that much better (if at all) with so much of it being front brakes anyway?

The second set of brake calipers are just for "handbraking".
If you seen any of the "pro" drift vehicles, they almost all run a 2nd brake caliper in the rear for independent handbrake control (with a dedicated handbrake lever).
This has nothing to do with overall brake performance.


-Ted

[Phoenix7]

I want to see the final brake setup and how it compares to a stock TII. The upgrades up front should make it stop on a dime with nice tires.

Keep it up higgi, you always have interesting mods.

[Max777]

FACT: Big brake kits do NOT reduce stopping distances, they reduce brake fade during performance driving conditions... or so I've read on the internetz... :D

[DrftQuin23]

Very nice mod. The only other car that I have seen this on is one Team Orange of Japans Drifting D1 I believe it was a Evo 10. I have always thought about this...i'm keeping an eye on this for sure.

[MaczPayne]

Pics of the front setup?

[RotorDad]

Seems interesting, BTW who make the adapters?

[hIGGI]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs494.snc3/27015_383586881449_698296449_3753598_4165840_n.jpg

[hIGGI]

Pics of the front setup?

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs515.snc3/27028_335555096449_698296449_3542035_7927865_n.jpg

[hIGGI]

Seems interesting, BTW who make the adapters?

Lets say that i do :)

[RotorDad]

^ Ok man would you make the brackets for others?

[Max777]

Is it just me or is this guy putting too much thought into sliding around? Drifting is as much about the fun as car control, you gotta remember that...

On a related note, is this really a drift car? Where are the wide ass wheels, the crazy aero, the wild paint job? and who the **** designed those sponsor vynils? :D I mean, a Greddy sticker diagonally on the b pillar? What? :o11:

There's a guy in Russia sliding a heavilly modded Lada. He can drive, but he confessed himself, the girls never go within a 10 mile radius of him, lmao.

[Phoenix7]

:lol: Higgi's one of the only drifters that gets respect from me BECAUSE he's not about dumping his car and making it look nasty like the poser drifter-wanna be's!! He's been to more events than a bunch of us put together!

tsk tsk Max.

[hIGGI]

Thanks Phoenix7 :)
Now, little update.

I had adapter originally designed for Mustang rotor as described in first post and i had made and assembled that way. Everything did fit together, but it required too big spacer for wheels or different offset of wheels than what i had.

Then i came across Toyota RAV4 rotors, which are same bolt pattern, pretty much same size but deeper dish. Center hole in rotor has to be machined, no need for centering ring. Little bit machining of adapters, few spacers for calipers and shaving little meat of the knuckles to clear bolts and final product is here. Only 8 mm wheel spacer is now required and one of my sets of wheels clears it even without spacer...

I can make either version of adapter (for mustang or rav4 rotors).
In the end, it was bit more pain than what i tought it would be in beginning, but its definately doable and every other install will be just easier :)

[RETed]

Is it just me or is this guy putting too much thought into sliding around? Drifting is as much about the fun as car control, you gotta remember that...

On a related note, is this really a drift car? Where are the wide ass wheels, the crazy aero, the wild paint job? and who the **** designed those sponsor vynils? :D I mean, a Greddy sticker diagonally on the b pillar? What? :o11:

There's a guy in Russia sliding a heavilly modded Lada. He can drive, but he confessed himself, the girls never go within a 10 mile radius of him, lmao.

Really...do you hate drifting that much that you gotta bash anything related to it?

hIGGI does it, because he wants to.
He puts the time and effort into drifting, unlike other who just talk about it and / or build their cars just to take pictures and brag about it.

You do realize that he's not in the USA, right?
Do you know how things work in the Czech Republic?
I dunno if you do, but I do; I'm one of the very few people on here that has met hIGGI and been to CZ to check out his sh*t.
I tell you what...hIGGI's enthusiasm about the FC rivals almost anyone I know, period.
It's a bit different how things work in CZ versus the USA, but hIGGI tries by thinking out of the box.
While we, in the USA, can pick up any number of brake (caliper) manufacturer catalogs and order bits and piece at a reasonable price, hIGGI cannot do this for obvious reasons.
It's amazing that hIGGI has his hands on the number of RX-7's all over Europe because of his reputation - he probably has touched almost all the FC's that are in the Czech Republic.

Cut hIGGI some slack.
At least he tries sh*t and tests his creations himself rather than just talk about sh*t like most people do on here...

Oh, BTW, I don't think hIGGI does it for the girls.
I'm sure hIGGI would love to have chicks hanging off his arms all over town, but I'm sure this is not his primary reason to be drifting.
If you're doing sh*t to get chicks, you need to grow up...


-Ted

[RotorDad]

Oh, BTW, I don't think hIGGI does it for the girls.
I'm sure hIGGI would love to have chicks hanging off his arms all over town, but I'm sure this is not his primary reason to be drifting.
If you're doing sh*t to get chicks, you need to grow up...


-Ted

LOL who the hell wants to build a car to get a woman these days!

[Phoenix7]

poseurs.

[djmtsu]

Actually, I think Max IS a fan of drifting.

However, he seems to think it is all about the 'style' and not the actual sport. I am not a fan because of that reason.

[hIGGI]

Sure, i know local guy who is spending a lot of money on his "driftcar", including expensive and functional mods (KAAZ LSD, etc), but he never takes this car to drift events, whenever its just drift day for cheap, or race....He is real poser :)

[vex]

Man Ted... Make me feel about the size of a pea. :( I need to get on my game.

[Max777]

Actually, I think Max IS a fan of drifting. However, he seems to think it is all about the 'style' and not the actual sport. I am not a fan because of that reason.

Hey, I love drifting! I was trying to be funny, but people didn't get it...and ted blew an apex seal. :D

The "Style" is about building a car that stands out in the crowd of average, and shows off your personality. Style is a big part of drifting. Your car is like a canvas, and you can express yourself through it just like a painting. While having the best alignment, proper this, proper that, and all that jazz is of the utmost importance for the track, everywhere else, a lot of guys want their car to look cool too. I guess amateur drifting is kinda like a revival of hot rodding. If you dig deep, you'll notice that back than, car life was all about the lifestyle a well. Somewhere along the line, we lost that, and drifters now are trying to bring it back.


My take on cars is that of a die-hard lifestyle. A Chicago group of drifters called "Risky Devil" explains it well: they don't call themselves a "drift team" but instead, a "social club". These guys love cars! they love driving cars, working on cars, talking about cars, making videos about cars, and most of all, hanging out with friends and having fun doing what they love... cause in the end, that' what it really is about.


My taste in things is also very diverse and complicated, and I can appreciate a lot of things other people dismiss or cant wrap their heads around. A good example of this methodology is a website called SPEEDHUNTERS where they don't discriminate.


At it's core, drifting is about fun... pure and simple. It is as much about having fun, and being wild/ wacky/ crazy and genius, as it is about who comes first. Dirt track guys fight after a race, drift guys party! On and off the track, amateur drifting is a medium through which people gather to share a common passion of going sideways.

When money, and first/second/third come into the equation, it takes away a bit of that. Do I want to go pro, and travel the country doing what I love? Of course!

Yet, but at the same time I am aware that it becomes as much about being able to market a product, aka yourself, successfully in order to move up in the ranks. Doing sponsorship deals, promotions, advertisement, etc. It becomes much more about business than it is about the driving itself. Now, I don't know about you, but personally, I don't enjoy business to the extent that some others do. I find it a necessity that I'm willing to put up with in order to gain what I want, but when it comes down to it, I don't "enjoy" it, like I do driving a car.


I leave you with this, it took me almost 2 hours to edit this post to where I felt it got my point across. Here's a little something for you:


During last month's Idlers meet, Nakai-san took second place in the Super Cup race finishing just behind another Porsche which was also loaded up with his parts. Nakai says that his car's best lap time on the Tsukuba 2000 course is somewhere in the 58 second range, which is an amazing time for an older non-tubro car like this one.

While the car is a great performer, it's also important to note how Nakai-san wanted the car to be fast, but not at the expense of having bad style. "What's the point of racing a car that doesn't look cool?", he says. All in all I'd say he managed to get the perfect balance of both.

http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Mike%20Garrett/Car%20Features/Nakai/IMG_9092.jpg

http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/Mike%20Garrett/Car%20Features/Nakai/IMG_0723.jpg

[Phoenix7]

is there a reason why you're thread jacking further MAX? Make your own thread instead of posting this stuff in higgi's thread. Let me know when I can remove your last post (if you want to move it elsewhere).

[RETed]

The "Style" is about building a car that stands out in the crowd of average, and shows off your personality. Style is a big part of drifting. Your car is like a canvas, and you can express yourself through it just like a painting.

(...)

Yet, but at the same time I am aware that it becomes as much about being able to market a product, aka yourself, successfully in order to move up in the ranks. Doing sponsorship deals, promotions, advertisement, etc. It becomes much more about business than it is about the driving itself. Now, I don't know about you, but personally, I don't enjoy business to the extent that some others do. I find it a necessity that I'm willing to put up with in order to gain what I want, but when it comes down to it, I don't "enjoy" it, like I do driving a car.

I'm pretty sure hIGGI is sponsored - he can confirm.
That would explain the stickers.
You're right about the sponsored thing - at a certain point, you do not have a say about your personal style.
Money talks.

Side note, "style" is a highly subjective topic.
It's very easy to apply YOUR personal style opinions on others.
Keep in mind that hIGGI is in the Czech Republic.
Unless you have extensive experience with "style" in CZ, I don't think you're qualified to label what's cool or what's not cool...
For all we know, the "kids" in CZ think the stickers are cool?


-Ted

[Max777]

is there a reason why you're thread jacking further MAX? Make your own thread instead of posting this stuff in higgi's thread. Let me know when I can remove your last post (if you want to move it elsewhere).

i dunno, people started talking crap... so i thought I'd give them a somewhat intelligent reply... Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel that this "jacking" was totally justified... besides, this all pertains to the OP's car, so I am still somewhat on topic.

[Phoenix7]

I disagree...but Higgi says to leave it. His thread, his call.

[RotorDad]

Well I'm still interested the idea of the 4 pistons in the rear, sounds like a future mod for me. Nice work higgi.

[hIGGI]

brake lines done and handbrake feels just right with 3/4" cylinder....

[MazdaMike]

Why would you need such a massive bore master cylinder? Your just gonna have way too much pressure and lock um up too easy...I remember seeing a thread where a guy was experimenting with tons of different MCs I think he said 15/16s bore offered the best pedal feel and performance or it was the Subaru MC which I think was a a 1''.

[hIGGI]

MC should match total volume of brake calipers. If you upgrade to larger piston calipers (which i did by going brembos in front), your normaly firm brake pedal will become weak and pedal travel longer...upgrading to 929 MC with 1" solved this situation back then.

Now, upgrading rears from single to 4 piston is again enlarging piston area and volume of fluid, so going bigger MC might be again necessary. Of course, you wont loose your brakes by keeping stock MC, but feel will be different and its up to you if you how to solve it....

[MazdaMike]

Yessir I am familiar with Pascals law, but sorry I gapped and forgot you upgraded fronts too.

[hIGGI]

Took car (drove it 350km there and 350km back) to drift event in Slovakia, and brakes works great both on track and on the road, love them :)