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Old 04-20-2012, 06:19 PM   #31
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What power have you made on 93 octane "true street set up" with that combination?






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Old 04-20-2012, 07:34 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by RICE RACING View Post
I'm not so sure why the shyness on sharing with people here what AFR and timing you use????

Specifically 8k to 10krpm @ 350kpa abs (or slightly below as your boost does not hold).

We both know the values, hell I even provided the knowledge for a 800+rwhp 12A! running a GT45R turbo using 36psi gauge boost, using C16 fuel only (and that is on our dyno's that read lower than yours) car trapped 167mph in a RX3 with a 28x9 tire. Only used 9000rpm though, bridge ported with 13B-RE inlet manifold and adapter plate.

I have a couple of customers who run C16 at similar mph and similar rwhp figures on just C16 but with 13B's and all are water injected to make the steel apex seals reliable long term.

AFR's in the 10's Timing in the single digits.
I'm not being shy, but apparently we don't both know the numbers as mine are not the same as your. But honestly I don't care what other people "claim" to run for afr's, ignition timing, boost levels etc...there are too many variables, mix that with a bunch of half truths and you'll be really confused.

9000rpm is also not the same as 10-11k rpm. Water injection as good as it is (and I'm not being sarcastic) is not a real lubricant.

167mph is respectable, depending on the vehicle weight. At roughly 1800lbs it only take 640hp, but a full weight FD would need about 1060hp to trap the same mph.

Do you have any dyno graphs to share? Vehicle weight? How about the dyno graph for the GT45.
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:48 PM   #33
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A bit like yourself and anyone who is in this game (who develops these things) I don't post current details of anyone's set up nor my own, only old hat that is a few steps back from current best practice

So did you get a power figure on 93 oct????

p.s. the GT45 proved too small
Ultimately for a 2 rotor, on pistons 4cyl I have used them on 1300bhp (real engine power) is not a problem! Rotary forget it.
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:17 PM   #34
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LRT formula (proven across hundreds of road cars) with normal manual trans and say your running real road tires!

1310kg (real road weight FD rx7 with 1/4 tank fuel)
150mph (averaged over last 66ft of a 1320ft standing start test
= 870bhp

Your car should easily do that given your power band and "dyno proven power"

looking forward to the result.

You will see a road FD in the fast fd thread that has done a proven 140mph both at traps and via VBOX (at same location) with 1280kg run weight (anorexic owner and no poofter sub woofers installed!) and it ONLY did 525rwhp lol (385rwkw VBOX) real wheel power at track!

fact v's fiction

go test it, I'd love to see the actual results from this car IT WILL KILL A BUGATTI VEYRON which only does 142mph in a 1320ft acel test and its weight is FUCKEN MASSIVE LOL!!!
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:52 PM   #35
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Exclamation Fact V's Fiction BS stops when the VBOX drops.

100kmh to 200kmh is the international test standard. Eliminates all excuses (poor traction) poor shifting etc, you only need to change gear once, and it will prove your spread of power and ULTIMATE POWER.

You should EASILY do sub 5 seconds in this test, making you the worlds fastest street car (if you could do it on 93 octane) but regardless it will be impressive to see a 13B RX7 achieve that

A VBOX unit will be the only evidence I will accept, it will record your location, your average height/altitude and eliminate ALL cheating (unless you strap it to a rocket sled and cheat yourself lol).

smg944 is the only person to man up so far next to me
In the rotary world backing up hype dyno figures seems to be only second to 1200rwhp supra's that trap 120mph in the quarter mile LOL......

Buggati Veyron is the legitimate record holder with 4.7 seconds 100kmh to 200kmh
4650lb
(only) 1006bhp
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:12 AM   #36
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100kmh to 200kmh is the international test standard. Eliminates all excuses (poor traction) poor shifting etc, you only need to change gear once, and it will prove your spread of power and ULTIMATE POWER.

You should EASILY do sub 5 seconds in this test, making you the worlds fastest street car (if you could do it on 93 octane) but regardless it will be impressive to see a 13B RX7 achieve that

A VBOX unit will be the only evidence I will accept, it will record your location, your average height/altitude and eliminate ALL cheating (unless you strap it to a rocket sled and cheat yourself lol).

smg944 is the only person to man up so far next to me
In the rotary world backing up hype dyno figures seems to be only second to 1200rwhp supra's that trap 120mph in the quarter mile LOL......

Buggati Veyron is the legitimate record holder with 4.7 seconds 100kmh to 200kmh
4650lb
(only) 1006bhp


You seem to be confused. I dont need nor am I seeking your approval. This all goes back to what I said in an earlier post. The nice thing about dynojet results is it almost completely removes the operator from the equation. On a DD dyno, the operator can influence the results, just as the result will vary from driver to driver using the VBox.

The bottom line is I know what this car is capable of and so do you. I asked you two questions after you made your first few comments, what do you consider to be acceptable torque output at 5-5.5k and what you consider high RPM to be. Because clearly according to you this car would not be capable of either (big torque output and high rpm)

I then posted a dyno graph answering some of Ted's questions showing the run with the RPM axis displayed. Now this graph didn't appear on your magical VBox, but I'm sure you read it plain as day on you monitor. Nice torque and high rpm from a 2 rotor.

After seeing that graph I understand why you wouldnt answer my original questions, you already had enough back paddling to do with you horse cock intake comment and the Scoot FD dyno results from 1984. Instead of just saying something positive (or god forbid nothing at all) you start in with your "real world boost not until 6k yada yada yada" which isnt the case and even if it was there was still another 4800 of USEABLE rpm to go.

Then is how long is this 10k engine last...

Next you want me to buy a VBox so I provide you with data? I politely reply explaining how I have a chassis dyno and have no need for a VBox.

Now I'm too cheap, and you can get the forum to buy one.

My full weight FD was trapping 145 mph a decade ago, I tuned that car on the same exact dyno I still use today. There nothing wrong with the dyno or the numbers.


Like I told you earlier, send me a Vbox and I'll send you back the magical Vbox data you want along with the VBox smashed into a million piece.

Let me know if you'd like me to video it too.

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Old 04-21-2012, 01:15 AM   #37
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No pedal power here mate, unlike yourself who has something to hide????

Anyway

An E-Mail has been sent and you should be able to borrow an instrument from us (will let you know) and then you can test your Buggati Veyron Beater

LOL

p.s. for Q16 and that turbo and a motor that is dubious in terms of reliability its a so so result............ about 20 years behind the times, but congrats on signing up and sharing nothing except your opinion of yourself and your abilities LOL.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:21 AM   #38
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p.s. you can have 48000rpm of useable power LOL but honestly 6000rpm for full boost? on the road in transient conditions and not in your dyno room............ Please you and I know that is shit, nice for a dyno comp though LOL.

Proof is on the street, in the real world.

If you want to compare to drag cars most of us have done for 20+ years then you are around 400bhp short of where you need to be, so not much special to be praised nor adored mate.

The Greek Real Street FD3S I posted up makes more power, on less boost, and dare I say would not be a 10800rpm hand grenade either, not a horse cock manifold in sight nor a peripheral port either
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:27 AM   #39
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So far as the "accuracy of your dyno" LOL

You know there is a GUESS FACTOR applied to dynojet's by its original maker cause it would not deliver the power of a set std motor when they were originally designed
hahahaha

Tell me oh ye of many expertise what happens to your magical readings when you fit different wheels LOL........ then tell me how accurate it is!!!!

Have a nice time in fairy land

If you want a piece of real gear to test your magical race car (claiming to be a road car) then I can provide it, but since you know everything I may just retract my offer of help since you know everything, except how to tell us how much power it makes on 93 octane nor to tell us anything of any note about your "set up" of which would be interest to people who frequent this web site.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:57 AM   #40
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PFSupercars Built/Tuned
9.24@151mph


^ LOL

So let us all get this right, You built ET's car with 819rwhp!!! and gone through 1 million motors, gearboxes, turbo's fuck knows what else and it ONLY does 151mph???????????????????????????????????????????? ????


Is this the same motor after ET pulled it out and you put it in this car, cause that would be 200 runs on the dyno trying to work out how to make it "reliable" if you include ET's motor.....???????????????????????????

How the FUCK does a full on DRAG CAR ONLY do 151mph WITH THAT MUCH POWER ON SLICKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMHO you either need to calibrate your dyno or clear up your stories or start sharing some facts on these magical set ups remember the offer of help is free on forums, unless you are just coming here to tell us how a DRAG CAR ENGINE can be an under performer when run by your 10 years of experience and so on and so forth.



@ mediocrity
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:13 AM   #41
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Exclamation Fact V's Fiction

10800 is NEVER USABLE in a street car.

Starting at 6000rpm to get your turbo and engine working simply makes it a DOG.

This car would be a TOTAL TURD to drive on the road

4" exhaust, peripheral port and GT4202R with a 13B = nightmare

So to race someone on the street your would need to hold 5000rpm???? before you mash the gas????????????? LOL, Nice job on the syncro's changing from 10800rpm in 1st to 2nd gear LOL......... this just makes no sense and will NEVER EVER work in reality on the street.

That car would have RINGS RUN AROUND IT by a car fitted with a conventional engine and non horse cock inlet manifold and a much smaller turbo The onus is on YOU! to back up the worthless dyno sheets with some real world acceleration figures PROVING how fast this car is................. for as it stands it is nothing more than a dyno queen as it is.

And based on your other customers car it would make for a pretty slow drag car since its only fitted with on OEM gearbox. So I for one just do NOT get the point of it AT ALL! But I am a reality person not a fictional person who shits on about torque under the curve, when it has no practical application and is NOT backed up by any factual results that set it heads and shoulders above what is a far more logical and simple proven set up.

If you want praise for building a dyno queen, congrats


if you want respect for building a fast true street car show us all the power on 93 octane and show us the performance with a legitimate test.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:30 AM   #42
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Exclamation Fact V's Fiction BS stops when the VBOX drops.

O.K. !

E-Mail from Steve Just now:
lol i read through all of that. is he willing to actually vbox the car? seems as though he doesnt want to and just wants to be stubborn with the dyno numbers. ill send it down for him to test. they are only $500 for them i dont understand why he wouldnt just buy one.

^ This is reply from Steve (user name smg944) on here, you can find his contact on the fast fd thread I started. You can PM him, he will talk to you and arrange shipment of his VBOX unit to you so you can test this car for all of us.

I've done my bit!
Its up to you PFS man to prove me wrong and to post up some real data on this car.
Since I have gone out of my way to entertain you and the crowd here, you can do a bit for us and also tell us what it makes on 93 octane, as this is a little side line interest for lots of us to have genuine street cars that can be driven anywhere anytime and filled up at normal gas stations

*So do one test (as a quasi drag car)* C16 Q16 Jizz in the tank if you need too!!!!

*Do another test running street fuel* 93 octane ONLY!!!

100kmh to 200kmh (start lower pick any gear that fits your power band!)
Send me the file
Measure the weight of your customers car (I assume you have your own corner scales????) SEND ME THE FILE!!!!

I'll post up the results in the fast FD Thread

SIMPLE !
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:20 AM   #43
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So I just found this thread, and all I can think of is "Whoa... simmer down Peter..." lol

All the personal attacks really don't make Ray look bad, and if anything his responses lend him more credibility (which I can only assume was not your end goal).

When it comes down to the truth of the matter PFS will build the car to the specs of what the customer asks for. If the customer wants something that is geared for street use than he'll build it with that as a focus, if the customer wants it to be used for drag purposes only (in the case of ET's car that you quoted earlier) than he'll build that. If the customer has a show car and wants impressive numbers with the option of ripping it up on a track, than PFS will build that too. At no point can Ray (or any builder/tuner for that matter) control how well the owner will drive a car once it's been paid for and taken home.

With regards to discrepancies in dyno figures, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about when it comes to the reputation of American dyno's. When I was living in England and first started making power oriented modifications to my FD I was continuously disappointed because the numbers I thought I should be making (based off what I read on the 7club) were consistently and significantly different from the numbers I was receiving from my UK shops DynoDynamics dyno. I did a little research and realized that MOST American dynos showed 15-20% higher numbers than their UK and Australian equivelents. Though I felt a bit cheated, that knowledge certainly made me feel better about the difference on paper.

When I came home from the UK I took my car to the very same dyno that PFS is still using today. I took it there for three reasons: 1) He was the closest reputable shop to me, 2) I wanted to actually compare numbers between what the UK dyno showed, and what the Yank dynos spit out, and 3) I needed a re-map for US gas (93 octane, verses the UK 98 RON equiv to 94 octane).

Ray humored me and did a baseline run for initial power before he began tuning. Ray's dyno showed almost the exact same HP as the DD dyno that my car had been mapped on in the UK, if anything it was 5whp off. When Ray re-mapped my car for a LOWER octane rating I picked up significantly more HP for the same PSI level.


Now, changing tacks and closing out my post (this was initially meant to be very short, oh well... lol) I'll say that you know of my experiences with PFS and other US tuners. My overall opinion is that Ray/PFS turns out an excellent product (when it's finally done, lol) and I have nothing to legitimately complain about with regards to his craftsmanship or tuning abilities. (The side seal issue was a fluke, and Ray has taken steps to correct/rectify that.) The engine that my car was running on when I bought it was a PFS engine, and I beat the LIVING PISS out of it damned near every day in England. Rays engine took all that abuse and constantly begged for more, hell... my FD was more reliable than my diesel DD in England!!! If that doesn't say something than I don't know what will


I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, I'm just suggesting that perhaps you approached the subject from the start with pre-conceived notions that may have been mis-directed. PFS isn't a one trick pony full of fuck-ups (like BDC/HC), but it seems like you approached him with that expectation in mind. Ya know what I mean?


Cheers man

Levi
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:41 PM   #44
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I dont give a fuck who Ray thinks he is or what his pay to play customers think of him, period, he OBVIOUSLY has a pre conceived idea of me (obvious in his need to sign up here and talk shit) *I for one never herd of him, nor do I need to know anything about him*.

ALL that matters is that he can man up and test this car, end of story.

AND be FACTUAL about what engine this is, how reliable its been be it even from a previous customers car (as I easily found trolling the internet) AND what power it does on 93 octane, which HE NEVER EVER DECIDED TO POST BACK ABOUT.

Ball is in his court if he wants to be a man and join the fast FD club for real road cars, be my guest if he wants to sign up here and cast an opinion about me then he can join the proven club of nobody cunts who do similar things.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:49 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Fendamonky View Post
So I just found this thread, and all I can think of is "Whoa... simmer down Peter..." lol

All the personal attacks really don't make Ray look bad, and if anything his responses lend him more credibility (which I can only assume was not your end goal).

When it comes down to the truth of the matter PFS will build the car to the specs of what the customer asks for. If the customer wants something that is geared for street use than he'll build it with that as a focus, if the customer wants it to be used for drag purposes only (in the case of ET's car that you quoted earlier) than he'll build that. If the customer has a show car and wants impressive numbers with the option of ripping it up on a track, than PFS will build that too. At no point can Ray (or any builder/tuner for that matter) control how well the owner will drive a car once it's been paid for and taken home.

With regards to discrepancies in dyno figures, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about when it comes to the reputation of American dyno's. When I was living in England and first started making power oriented modifications to my FD I was continuously disappointed because the numbers I thought I should be making (based off what I read on the 7club) were consistently and significantly different from the numbers I was receiving from my UK shops DynoDynamics dyno. I did a little research and realized that MOST American dynos showed 15-20% higher numbers than their UK and Australian equivelents. Though I felt a bit cheated, that knowledge certainly made me feel better about the difference on paper.

When I came home from the UK I took my car to the very same dyno that PFS is still using today. I took it there for three reasons: 1) He was the closest reputable shop to me, 2) I wanted to actually compare numbers between what the UK dyno showed, and what the Yank dynos spit out, and 3) I needed a re-map for US gas (93 octane, verses the UK 98 RON equiv to 94 octane).

Ray humored me and did a baseline run for initial power before he began tuning. Ray's dyno showed almost the exact same HP as the DD dyno that my car had been mapped on in the UK, if anything it was 5whp off. When Ray re-mapped my car for a LOWER octane rating I picked up significantly more HP for the same PSI level.


Now, changing tacks and closing out my post (this was initially meant to be very short, oh well... lol) I'll say that you know of my experiences with PFS and other US tuners. My overall opinion is that Ray/PFS turns out an excellent product (when it's finally done, lol) and I have nothing to legitimately complain about with regards to his craftsmanship or tuning abilities. (The side seal issue was a fluke, and Ray has taken steps to correct/rectify that.) The engine that my car was running on when I bought it was a PFS engine, and I beat the LIVING PISS out of it damned near every day in England. Rays engine took all that abuse and constantly begged for more, hell... my FD was more reliable than my diesel DD in England!!! If that doesn't say something than I don't know what will


I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, I'm just suggesting that perhaps you approached the subject from the start with pre-conceived notions that may have been mis-directed. PFS isn't a one trick pony full of fuck-ups (like BDC/HC), but it seems like you approached him with that expectation in mind. Ya know what I mean?


Cheers man

Levi
Your English set up DD are massively exaggerated!!!!!!!!!!!!

See my build up thread where I do an analysis on a Euro Time Attack FD set up with E85 in a much lighter car that performed much worse than the dyno number would indicate.

I have been involved with many TA cars there where people have sent me rwhp figures from these things and they just did not make any sense to me as an engineer.

This is why I do NOT value any of these readings, most are run by cowboys, with dubious equipment, dodgy calibrations (or lack of) and @ the end of the day rubbish results that do not match reality.

It's just too easy to prove all of this to be crap, all it takes is an education and a $500 piece of scientific grade instrumentation and an honest operator. This is how we tell the difference between fact and fiction.

I do not care who you are or what you claim to be, just man up weigh the car, put in a proper piece of testing gear and provide me with the file, I'll do the hard work free of charge and verify it is what it is, then there is no doubt, no b.s., no excuses............. its all too simple
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