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NRS Rotorsports www.nrsrotorsports.com (Canada) Ceramic apex & corner seals for rotary engine applications

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Old 12-28-2009, 04:03 PM   #31
thewird
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Yah, I was planning to get the motor rebuilt over the winter but my builder went to Florida for ~3 weeks. Also, was talking to an RX-8 owner who wanted to rebuild his engine with ceramic 2-piece 3mm seals (which is the reason for my questions in the other thread). So I guess that would account for both and I should order soon before someone else does. What is the current pricing on the seals with springs? Would it be cheaper to get it through my builder ^_^

I'd be interested to help out in testing if I can. Dave from Mazdee's is the one who builds my motors and from our talks you guys know each other somewhat well. So when we open up motors, we could relay any particular information your looking for.

The 32,000 km were put on in about a year so both Dave and I are very interested in what the internals of the motor look like with the ceramic seals considering I've been running 16-17 PSi (pump gas) on the track for 30 minutes sessions with 1850*F EGT's, over 15 track days this season, and the later ones were at 20 PSi with water injection and a touch of meth occasionally. Also, drove the car down to the deals gap in North Carolina and then to Florida so its had lots of long drives. Also, ran exclusively on the OMP only and only added some unmetered amounts of 2-stroke into the gas for track days.

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Old 12-28-2009, 05:44 PM   #32
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We could possibly work something out for testing with Dave after Pineapple is finished but I would have to see what I have for 3mm CS. I will be looking forward to seeing pics of your engine on tear down

The 3mm 2pc seals are $1150.25 + GST.....it doesn't get better than that for 2pc ceramic seals The springs are $140.00 + GST

Total for both sets with springs $2580.50 + 129.03 = $2709.53 plus shipping.

LMK if you want to go ahead and we'll sort out payment and shipping.
Thanks
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Old 12-28-2009, 07:52 PM   #33
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Yah, I do but the RX-8 owner would have to order them for himself. I don't have his contact and Dave is on holidays so I can't let him know until he comes back. Hopefully they don't get sold by then. Worst case he has to wait for your next batch. So please let me know how I would proceed with my order. Thanks.

Also, forgot to mention these seals are your spotted seals that were in the oven too long ^_^. I'd like to say I love them.

Reason being when I was down at the gap, I was running a fuel pump backup wire which was too thin since my relay died. So the wire overheated and caused a fuel pressure drop causing me to go into a really bad lean condition. We had stopped at the bottom after a good while of going up and down the gap. When we left we all opened it up. I heard a strange sound which I realized after was AUDIBLE detonation, I looked down at my wideband while I was still WOT and saw 14.x AFR @ 16 pounds of boost. When I finally let off 2-3 seconds later, I immediately assumed engines gone. But to my surprise it sounded normal. I then tried it again to confirm and the same thing happened so I puttered it back to the cabin until I could fix the fuel issue. This was at around 5,000-10,000 km in the life of the engine. It has continued to run fine all season and now has 32,000 km. There is nothing wrong the engine, me and Dave are just curious on the internals. Anyway, just wanted to say I love your seals.

However, I always wonder if I had the same seals but in 2-piece if if they would have been so resilient. Thoughts?

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Old 12-28-2009, 08:27 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewird View Post
However, I always wonder if I had the same seals but in 2-piece if if they would have been so resilient. Thoughts?
thewird
You know that is a really good question, I often wondered the same myself. The 2pc seal is subjected to a lot different operating conditions as opposed to the 1pc seal which floats and never touches the plates. The only obvious difference from a design point would be where the 45 degree split is between the pcs. But from an operating perspective it could be a whole different ball game. Some claim the 1pc seal is overall stronger for this reason.

NRS 2pc seals are like the old Rotary Truck type where the wedge sits under the main bar and never contacts the rotor housing. This will give full positive sealing from the get go without having to gouge the rotor housing to establish contact with the main bar. This also makes the tip of the main bar much stronger and less prone to chipping off as it no longer comes to a razor point.
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Old 12-28-2009, 08:51 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewird View Post
Also, forgot to mention these seals are your spotted seals that were in the oven too long ^_^. I'd like to say I love them.
thewird
GREAT!! Glad to get some feedback on those!
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Old 12-29-2009, 02:18 AM   #36
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Oh, I forgot another test of endurance these seals prevailed through. In 2008 just before the winter when I got my new engine with the seals. The turbo oil seals let loose and all the oil drained out of the motor. I ignored the OEM oil pressure gauge and kept driving. 10 minutes later the car started losing power (I was driving on the highway) and I noticed it was blowing a ton of smoke out the back. Pulled over and long story short most of the engine was toast. Rotors, bearings, side seals, endplates etc. were all junk on a 2,000 km rebuild.

But surprisingly the rotor housings and seals were perfectly fine! This was great news for me since the rotor housing were brand new with 2,000 km on them and same with the seals which are mucho money.

Here's some pics of the destruction if you care to look...

http://thewirdsdomain.com/rx7/engine/11-07-08_1220.jpg
http://thewirdsdomain.com/rx7/engine/11-07-08_1221.jpg
http://thewirdsdomain.com/rx7/engine/11-07-08_1313.jpg
http://thewirdsdomain.com/rx7/engine/11-07-08_1314.jpg

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Old 01-29-2010, 01:44 AM   #37
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Any update on the Corner seals?
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:02 PM   #38
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Not yet, I still need to get some of the heavier springs to Rob for the testing. These should be ready this coming week and then we can get started.
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:05 PM   #39
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Just spoke to the shop doing the springs and they will be ready for the first of next week. Hopefully Rob can get right on it. Will post when I have more news.
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Old 02-10-2010, 01:18 AM   #40
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This is great news!
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:30 AM   #41
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love my NRS apex seals/springs.

i recently dis-assembled my motor that ran in 09 and found the rotor housings literally looking exactly like they did when i assembeled the motor. no trace of wear anywhere.
the seals/springs looked unused. the motor was making 507 SAE rwhp at 20 psi w around 20% methanol.

the motor was steadily gaining compression during the year and could have easily reassembled as was. i took it down to swap the rear iron for an automatic rear plate as i am switching to a T56 for my 200 mph run at the Texas Mile.

thanks NRS!

howard coleman

www.colemanprecisionrotaries.com
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:55 AM   #42
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I often wondered what the reasoning was with the 2 piece mazda design that needs to gouge the housing in order to make a total seal. The older mazda truck seals and the NRS seals from a function point would seem to seal better with less damage to the rotor housing.

Howard, are you running the facoty MOP setup or premixing in the fuel tank? What brand and what ratio?
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:09 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howard coleman View Post
love my NRS apex seals/springs.

i recently dis-assembled my motor that ran in 09 and found the rotor housings literally looking exactly like they did when i assembeled the motor. no trace of wear anywhere.
the seals/springs looked unused. the motor was making 507 SAE rwhp at 20 psi w around 20% methanol.

the motor was steadily gaining compression during the year and could have easily reassembled as was. i took it down to swap the rear iron for an automatic rear plate as i am switching to a T56 for my 200 mph run at the Texas Mile.

thanks NRS!

howard coleman

www.colemanprecisionrotaries.com
You are welcome Howard! Thanks for the shiny review. This is what makes it all worthwile. Hey can you post this in the apex seals thread?
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:04 PM   #44
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"are you running the factory MOP setup or premixing in the fuel tank? What brand and what ratio?"

i do not run the factory EOP. i also remove it from all motors i build. i mix 1/2 oz per gallon for street and 1 oz per gallon for dyno and track.

i use Super Tech (Walmart) brand 2 cycle oil.

love it.

BTW, my NRS seals are one piece.


hc
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:45 PM   #45
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Hey Howard, could you put up some pics of those rotor housings and the apex seals? If you could put it on the "test results" thread that would be great.
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